Geller stoops to a new low

[Brad Henderson]

I am so glad a handful here have decided for everyone else what it means to be a magician - a word which historically has NOT mean the same as CONJURER.

Is the pope a magician? I'm ok with that. We call what we do prayer. We call what "they" do magic.

Is magic real?

I guess that depends on what it is and who you ask. Some may think that making a coin disappear to be magic. Some may think forecasting the future to be magic.

One is ok.
The other is less ok - depending on how willing you are to dis-illusion your audience.

Can you be a "real" magician and NOT find yourself in precarious positions?

Probably not.

Did the Fox sisters set out to dupe the world, or did their little game get out of hand?
They began with a knee rapping trick. Who would have thought that would have spun the world on its head. Do you blame a bunch of kids for freaking out and making a poor decision to not confess?

Uri began with the "light as a feather stiff as a board trick." The world spun and he had to hang on. But when you try to do what you do well - and for a magician that is to be REAL - then how DO you handle that situation? We don't blame the bizarrists for pretending that which they do is real. But that's because none of them succeeded. Perhaps in retrospect he would have made different choices when tough choices were presented.

When you walk a new path, you meet new challenges.

You guys clearly must be blessed with real psychic powers to have made all the right decisions in your life without error or regret. Or maybe you have decided to stay on familiar paths. Nothing wrong with that. Not very exciting. Probably aren't going to have any measurable impact on culture. But it IS safe. And that's a choice for you to make.

I don't blame Geller because his spoon bending trick convinced many people to believe in fraudulent ideas.

I can't see how that's his fault. Clearly he didn't convince you. You see it as ridiculous, which it kind of is. So obviously the issue isn't the trick or even how he did it. It's something more.

Perhaps we should ask Randi if, in retrospect, he should have gone after Geller so hard. He made sure Geller was in the spotlight. He made Geller an under dog. And when some a-hole challenges you, would you back down and say "just kidding?" Randi pushed Geller into a corner. Geller fought back.

Without Randi would we have heard of Geller? Did Randi's antics serve his purpose of leading people away from nonsensical thinking?

Clearly not.

But equally clear - Randi got a lot from riding on Geller's coat tails. Randi promoted a psychic and built a career off it.

Perhaps we should convict him as the accomplice, or at least an an enabler.

Or do we reserve those condemnations only for "them" and not "us?"

[Magic Fred]

I am so glad a handful here have decided for everyone else what it means to be a magician - a word which historically has NOT mean the same as CONJURER.

What a stupidly defensive, condescending and impotent jibe. I have not simply "decided for everyone" anymore than those with whom I disagree have "decided for everyone." I have decided FOR MYSELF what good magic is and I am attempting, through argument and reason, to convince others of the merits of my position. It's called a discussion.

Is the pope a magician? I'm ok with that. We call what we do prayer. We call what "they" do magic.

If you are OK with classifying the Pope as a magician then I will happily state that this position simply needs no refutation, but rather calls only to be repeated and underlined for reference and comparison when Geller is later referred to as a great magician.

Is magic real?

I guess that depends on what it is and who you ask. Some may think that making a coin disappear to be magic. Some may think forecasting the future to be magic.

One is ok.
The other is less ok - depending on how willing you are to dis-illusion your audience.

Both are quite fine, but if your shtick relies on fooling the gullible into thinking you have actual supernatural powers then you are not, in my submission, a great magician.

Did the Fox sisters set out to dupe the world, or did their little game get out of hand?
They began with a knee rapping trick. Who would have thought that would have spun the world on its head. Do you blame a bunch of kids for freaking out and making a poor decision to not confess?

Personally no, neither do I see them as "great magicians." A sentence which pretty much addresses the rest of your comment. I don't "blame" Geller for anything. I just think he's an arsehole and not a particularly great magician.

As you have all but declared the Pope, and Sai Baba by association, as perhaps the greatest magicians the world has ever seen (with exception of perhaps Jesus, were we able to verify any of the stories about him) then your definition of what counts as a magician is so broad as to render a continuation of this discussion completely futile.

I mean, if the Pope(!?) is a great magician then so is Johnny Depp. Depp is just less of an arsehole because he doesn't go around claiming to heal babies with magic. Allowing the Pope to fall under your definition of "magician" is to render the term meaningless for all practical discussion.

[mrgoat]

a magician is an actor who creates the illusion of having supernatural powers - but Geller is a bad magician for doing this so well that people are actually willing to believe him?!?

Well, no one in 2014 really believes someone doing a card trick has supernatural powers. They understand it is sleight of hand. Geller claims to have supernatural powers and is lying.

When I go to almost any other theatrical experience, the participants do not jump up and down reminding me at every turn that the blood is fake and that the sun is really just a bunch of lighting elements.

Indeed. And at the end of the performance, you can go and see the actors and they will be actors, not pretending still to be the part they played on stage.

Sorry - I'm not interested in being limited by YOUR morality.

No need to apologise. If you think conning people out of money is A Good Thing, then go for it.

[Gordon Meyer]

I'm starting a drinking game based on this thread. Every time somebody is called an "arsehole" for having a different option and definition of morality--take a swig. See you on the floor.

In all seriousness, those of you imposing your definition of morality, theatrical choices, and ethics on others is tiring. Get off your high horses. Geller is a fantastic magician who has fooled the world. Good for him. I may or may not agree with his choices, but what I think doesn't matter, as they are his choices to make. As a magician I applaud him for pulling it off. As Brad observed, he chose a road that is not easy to travel.

And yes, the Catholic church down the street has a great magic trick in every show; twice on Sundays! Good for them, too.

[mrgoat]

Geller is a fantastic con artist who has fooled the world.

fixed your typo.

[P.T.Widdle]

Hey, who needs silly old technology when you have "remote viewing." C'mon, Geller. Help us out here.

http://boingboing.net/2014/03/25/sonar- ... issin.html

[Magic Fred]

Every time somebody is called an "arsehole" for having a different option and definition of morality

As far as I can see, I'm the only one using the word arsehole in this thread and your accusation is simply unwarranted and, frankly, ignorant and dismissive.

I have stated that Uri Geller "comes across as an arsehole" to those who know he's just doing tricks. An assertion that I am happy to stand behind and provide further evidence for if prompted. I mean, some of the stuff is just cringe-worthy. Filling a teddy-bear with his magical healing positive energy... for goodness sake, what an arsehole.

How you can twist that into me calling someone on this thread an arsehole for not agreeing with me is anyone's guess.

[mrgoat]

Every time somebody is called an "arsehole" for having a different option and definition of morality

As far as I can see, I'm the only one using the word arsehole in this thread and your accusation is simply unwarranted and, frankly, ignorant and dismissive.

I have stated that Uri Geller "comes across as an arsehole" to those who know he's just doing tricks. An assertion that I am happy to stand behind and provide further evidence for if prompted. I mean, some of the stuff is just cringe-worthy. Filling a teddy-bear with his magical healing positive energy... for goodness sake, what an arsehole.

How you can twist that into me calling someone on this thread an arsehole for not agreeing with me is anyone's guess.

It's a straw man. Rather than try and make a counterpoint that Geller filling a teddy with energy and saying he can heal someone with it is bad, he tries to sidetrack the conversation.

I'd love to hear him try and defend the teddybear situation as something any human being would think is acceptable.

[Brad Jeffers]

I have a friend who was born with a condition called bladder exstrophy. Since childhood she has gone through an endless number of surgical procedures which continue to this day. She is now 46.

When she was 3 years old and facing a protracted hospital stay, she was given a Teddy bear. She named the bear Teddy.

It proved to be a great source of comfort.

From then on, Teddy has always accompanied her on each visit to the hospital.

Today, Teddy is a little ragged, but still here. It is my friend's wish that Teddy be buried with her when that time comes.

I don't know if when she received Teddy, there was any talk of it having magical healing powers. Does that matter?

I only know that for a little girl facing a scary time, the gift of a Teddy bear was a very nice thing.

If anyone here ever takes the opportunity to give a sick child a Teddy bear with magical healing powers, I for one will not hold it against you.

[Chris Aguilar]

Intriguing.



Only $19.95 for a kit (that gets magically charged by Uri every month) and teaches me how to "Expand my ESP", "Dowse" and "Talk to Animals"?

[Magic Fred]

If anyone here ever takes the opportunity to give a sick child a Teddy bear with magical healing powers, I for one will not hold it against you.

If you use it to get publicity for yourself in an outright assertion that you are putting positive energy in the teddy bear and genuinely claiming that this will help heal sick children then I might not hold it against you either, but I will think that you come across as an absolute arsehole.

Now, anyone have a friend who was sick as a child and was offended and scarred for life by the trauma of receiving one of Geller's teddy bears and thinking they weren't special because the magic didn't work on them? Then my side would win the argument, right? Poor effort sir, poor effort.

[Brad Jeffers]

The difference between you and me, Magic Fred, is that you are trying to "win the argument".

I am not.

[Magic Fred]

The difference between you and me, Magic Fred, is that you are trying to "win the argument".

I am not.

Oh I see, that's good. So you didn't offer your anecdote in support of Geller then? It was just a loosely-related aside? If this is the case then I agree wholeheartedly... For the record, I fully support the sending of teddy bears to sick children. Just don't tell anyone they are magic psychic teddy bears, injected with the mystical energy of a real live woo-woo man.

[Brad Henderson]

What a stupidly defensive, condescending and impotent jibe. I have not simply "decided for everyone" anymore than those with whom I disagree have "decided for everyone." I have decided FOR MYSELF what good magic is and I am attempting, through argument and reason, to convince others of the merits of my position. It's called a discussion.

that's some mighty fine reason you lead with. Seems more like as hominem to me - much like the proclamation that gellar is an a-hole.

but let's play: you seem to be advocating that a magician is required to admit that what they do is trickery. But if what you and Damien suggest is true - that these antics are insulting (your position) and no one believes magic tricks are the work of the supernatural - then why is the onus on the performer?

The only 'reason' you have offered is the appeal to authority - because Houdini found this reprehensible, we should too.

Yet Houdini was an ardent and vocal debunker of spiritualism yet that did nothing to prevent his good friend Doyle from believing not only in spiritualism but in houdini's powers AS a spiritualist. I don't see you blaming Houdini for Doyle's conclusions.

Houdini also was, by many accounts, a HUGE a-hole, so to look to him as an example while condemning Geller as one himself seems to be the opposite of reason, it's hypocrisy.

you want to lump Geller in with others. That would be fine if they did the same thing in the same contexts with the same intent. As far as I understand, Geller gave shows and when people confused his painting for the landscape he made a choice not to break character.

This seems different to me from someone who has set up a medical practice or a temple - unless you want to make the argument that the psychic entertainer and the psychic reader are the exact same thing.

I would welcome that debate. Have thought about it a lot - with Venn diagrams and syllogisms.

That might not hold up to your dismissive personal attacks but I'm willing to give it a go.

but if that is too deep, let's start shallow: is a magician artist required to remind his audience that what he or she does are tricks and that he or she is a fake?

that seems to be the assumption you have made about the nature of performance magic.

Is it valid? is it complete? is it interesting?

I look forward to your name call...I mean reasoned and supported response.

[Brad Henderson]

Colbert had a segment on psychics and the plane. Perhaps the people we should be condemning are not those who received the call, but those who made it.

some people might do well to study the evidence of how placebo and belief impact healing and well being.

some people might benefit from readin bob neales book on celebrating illusions. Has a chapter on teddy bears even.

but those people would be skeptics who consider ideas before pronouncing judgement - not zealots who see everything through the always worn lenses they have made for themselves.

[mrgoat]

I don't know if when she received Teddy, there was any talk of it having magical healing powers. Does that matter?

Well, yes, really. The point of my question was for you to justify a con artist claiming the teddy was full of his amazing healing juices.

Everyone knows the power of the mind when it comes to healing is a great thing. However, getting publicity because you claimed you filled a teddy with your healing juices and it is working is despicable.

Can you attempt to justify that, rather than just tell us a story about your pal?

[mrgoat]

is a magician artist required to remind his audience that what he or she does are tricks and that he or she is a fake?

If they are doing 'ordinary' conjuring, then no. I don't believe there is anyone in the western world who thinks conjuring is real magic.

If they are performing mentalism, or any related thing, then I think they do. Derren Brown does it very nicely.

[Brad Henderson]

but many believe brown is doing things by means not those actually used. Heck - even many magicians did and do.

so - is that derren's fault?

and I'm not sure that one cannot get people to believe in magic, even with cards. It takes a bigger approach, one that goes beyond sleights.

heck - we can convince people we are expert card manipulator with self working trick. Should there be outrage there

several even tell audiences they are reformed card cheats but have never moved in a game in their life. some even try to sell their services as protection experts. giving lectures to law enforcement.

some lies are ok but not others?

[Magic Fred]

What a stupidly defensive, condescending and impotent jibe. I have not simply "decided for everyone" anymore than those with whom I disagree have "decided for everyone." I have decided FOR MYSELF what good magic is and I am attempting, through argument and reason, to convince others of the merits of my position. It's called a discussion.

that's some mighty fine reason you lead with. Seems more like as hominem to me - much like the proclamation that gellar is an a-hole.

but let's play: you seem to be advocating that a magician is required to admit that what they do is trickery. But if what you and Damien suggest is true - that these antics are insulting (your position) and no one believes magic tricks are the work of the supernatural - then why is the onus on the performer?

The only 'reason' you have offered is the appeal to authority - because Houdini found this reprehensible, we should too.

Yet Houdini was an ardent and vocal debunker of spiritualism yet that did nothing to prevent his good friend Doyle from believing not only in spiritualism but in houdini's powers AS a spiritualist. I don't see you blaming Houdini for Doyle's conclusions.

Houdini also was, by many accounts, a HUGE a-hole, so to look to him as an example while condemning Geller as one himself seems to be the opposite of reason, it's hypocrisy.

you want to lump Geller in with others. That would be fine if they did the same thing in the same contexts with the same intent. As far as I understand, Geller gave shows and when people confused his painting for the landscape he made a choice not to break character.

This seems different to me from someone who has set up a medical practice or a temple - unless you want to make the argument that the psychic entertainer and the psychic reader are the exact same thing.

I would welcome that debate. Have thought about it a lot - with Venn diagrams and syllogisms.

That might not hold up to your dismissive personal attacks but I'm willing to give it a go.

but if that is too deep, let's start shallow: is a magician artist required to remind his audience that what he or she does are tricks and that he or she is a fake?

that seems to be the assumption you have made about the nature of performance magic.

Is it valid? is it complete? is it interesting?

I look forward to your name call...I mean reasoned and supported response.

Well I was hoping it wouldn't go down this road, but somehow it just always does... I have half a mind to tell you to straw your stickman up your arse, but instead I'll just point out, at the risk of patronising, that calling someone an arsehole is NOT an ad-hominem. And you have some cheek to get butthurt when the comment in question was a direct response to your OWN little jibe (read, personal attack).

With that out of the way, the rest of your comment does not address anything I have said. I certainly didn't mention Houdini so perhaps whoever did will step in now and answer your questions for themselves.

My assertion is that Geller does not display the attributes which should go into judging a "great magician." No more, no less. Oh, and that he comes across as an arsehole when he pretends all that psychic energy, crystal ball, dowsing [censored] is real.

[Edward Pungot]

I haven't read all the updated responses since the last time I was on here.
So this comment isn't in regards to the two gentlemen who are currently debating,
but rathar a few general remarks about the persona "the spoon-bending psychic."

Just like some of the commentators on here, I too saw Mr. Geller at the Geii Bash.
I applaude him for his brass-balls. But I reserved the right not to stand up for him on both a gut and intillectiual level.

[mrgoat]

but many believe brown is doing things by means not those actually used. /quote]

I guess some might, but he makes it perfectly clear at the start of every TV and stage show and I think that is what everyone should do.

and I'm not sure that one cannot get people to believe in magic, even with cards. /quote]

Yup. Stupid people are everywhere. I am sure you COULD do it, but my point was most western world dwellers understand a card trick is a card trick and not actual magic. Beside the point really.

some lies are ok but not others?

Essentially, yes.

As long as the people giving you money know you are pretending, and they are good with that, then all is good.

At a play, people pay knowing they are seeing people pretend to be other people. They suspend their disbelief for a couple of hours and have a good time. With Geller et al, they get money from conning people. People paying him do not think he is an actor pretending to be able to heal children with a healing juice filled teddy bear or crystal. They believe in his 'power'. This, to me at least, is wrong.

[Magic Fred]

As long as the people giving you money know you are pretending, and they are good with that, then all is good.

At a play, people pay knowing they are seeing people pretend to be other people. They suspend their disbelief for a couple of hours and have a good time. With Geller et al, they get money from conning people. People paying him do not think he is an actor pretending to be able to heal children with a healing juice filled teddy bear or crystal. They believe in his 'power'. This, to me at least, is wrong.

This is the gist of it at the highest level, but it goes deeper than that. There are certain secondary implications for society in allowing such woo-woo to go uncontested. This is not the venue for such a debate, but I would contend strongly that it has a significant retardation effect on society and results in real, tangible pain and misery for a LOT of people.

[Brad Jeffers]

BEWARE THAT URI GELLER ...
HE BE AN EVIL EVIL MAN

[Brad Henderson]

Fred - again, you make no points other than to call names at those who do not see the world through your lens.

you keep saying Geller is not a great magician - as if that term has a clear and defined meaning.

so - what makes a great magician?

quality - Geller

entertaining - check
likable - check (ask anyone who met him)
interesting - check (or we wouldn't know of him)
technically proficient - triple check
leaves his audience with an intended feeling - check
deals in realms/effects associated with magic and magicians - check
convincing - check

now you seem to insist that admission of trickery is a requirement to being a great magician.

do you believe that? I truly don't want to put words into your mouth and apologize for confusing you with the person who referenced Houdini and penn and teller as authorities to appeal to (penn has earned the a badge from many as well.)

or to you is there something more? or different?

repeating over and over that someone is an arse does no good for anyone. Let's break this down and learn from it.

what are the requirements to being a great magician. Why Do you feel those are the measuring points and why then does Geller not hit those marks?

(bonus points if you can do so without name calling)

((and we can discuss the effects of woo woo on culture. And we can discuss how the skeptical movement and their intentional choice to adopt a position of mockery (see the Gardner-Truzzi correspondence) has done more to solidify the place of nonsense rather than weaken its position. We can also discuss all the nonsense that we all believe and contemplate how abandoning those illusions would impact us - perhaps for the worse. Maybe the problem isn't that we have religion. Religion and other nonsense can be beautiful, life affirming and even play important roles in our well being. So maybe the problem isn't religion itself - the problem is that people believe it is real.)

[Jonathan Townsend]

... People paying him do not think he is an actor pretending to be able to heal children with a healing juice filled teddy bear or crystal. They believe in his 'power'. This, to me at least, is wrong.

This notion of belief in a thing which is taken outside the theater, before and after the show is my topic of concern. During the show... let the absurdities flow. But after the show?

Imagine an actor playing the role of Shakespeare's Romeo who invites the audience to backstage where he explains the curse upon him to be unable to wed his Juliet and while he has to settle for the time they get onstage he does offer some recommendation for an antidote powder which when mixed with water will cure any poison. He knows this as he uses it every night right after the poisoning scene in the show. But he has some extra from his last visit to his alchemist and is willing to sell some for those who worry about their kids eating something at home or if they get food poisoning - you know just in case.

It's gotta work - he's been using that stuff for as long as he's been Romeo. Just ask Juliet. While it does not prevent the poison from killing him it does bring him back good as new.

[Brad Henderson]

Damien - do you equally condemn those who would take money professing to be a card cheat when not, or who sell lectures to law enforcement or casinos based on fraudulent skills and credentials?

just clarifying. I am interested in where we draw our lines. I think we all have lines - but where we place them and why are the interesting bits, not the line itself.

(was just thinking of the time you and I watched two grown men transform into tiny tyrannosaurus Rex's. The girl who was with us is a 'believer'. it pains me at times. But I still can't blame the psychics for that completely. )

[Brad Henderson]

jt - what of the TV personalities who people believe are 'that person' when in reality they are different. Morton Downy Jr comes to mind. Is there no history of people/artists establishing characters which they give the impression exist outside the frame of the theater?

[Jonathan Townsend]

Okay Brad (and all) let's push that argument over a few lines and see if and how any feelings change.

let's say a performer claims to be devout and calls upon the power of X (fill in name of savior, prophet, pasta dish, movie monster) to manifest as the bending of metal as metaphor for will and any absolute notions of the perceivable world.
And so after a great ritual of calming and focus they claim the power of X is concentrating upon the space where all can see the spoon and with just a little more attention focused upon that space by the willing audience the world will change before their eyes.

So now what? Do we all praise X? Call out and shun those who did not feel that manifestation? Buy flags and donate to the cause? Collect a few pounds of used spoons to melt into a cane that may heal the crippled?

At what point does (or is that cashflow?) vain delusion transgress into the realm of other people's prophets?

[Jonathan Townsend]

jt - what of the ... people/artists establishing characters which they give the impression exist outside the frame of the theater?

Okay, you can be Spartacus too. But when asked for your drivers license and registration you might do better as yourself.

[mrgoat]

Damien - do you equally condemn those who would take money professing to be a card cheat when not, or who sell lectures to law enforcement or casinos based on fraudulent skills and credentials?

Yes, Brid*. I think that is equally as wrong, although, interestingly, not quite as emotively so. Someone saying they can help heal a sick child with a teddy bear full of healing juice is much worse, to me, than someone defrauding a casino. But, I think people that run casinos are fairly despicable folk, so I don't care so much if they get stung!

I care if someone who has a missing child, or a sick child is conned. And especially if they pay money for such 'healing'.

just clarifying. I am interested in where we draw our lines. I think we all have lines - but where we place them and why are the interesting bits, not the line itself.

oh I know! I like discussing things with you. You make me think and question my thoughts, and that is a great good.

(was just thinking of the time you and I watched two grown men transform into tiny tyrannosaurus Rex's. The girl who was with us is a 'believer'. it pains me at times. But I still can't blame the psychics for that completely. )

Hehe. I went to see Andy Nyman's Ghost Stories last week and did a bit of T-Rexing in my chair! And no, one cannot totally blame psychics. It is an odd time. The Church is essentially dead, at least in the UK, and people REALLY want to believe in SOMETHING, almost ANYTHING to help them through troubling times. Without the Church, where do they turn? To charlatans. And in the case of that girl who was with us, if someone has an illness, then anything that maybe just MIGHT help, is something people in that situation might try and hope is real. I guess.


*It's DamiAn, bitch!

[Brad Henderson]

dammit damian - i intentionally spelled it with the e because I didn't want to upset you by spelling it wrong - I just got my wires crossed with what I thought was wrong.

so much for good intentions!

sincere apologies.

[mrgoat]

dammit damian - i intentionally spelled it with the e because I didn't want to upset you by spelling it wrong - I just got my wires crossed with what I thought was wrong.

so much for good intentions!

sincere apologies.

I totally forgive you, Brod, my T Rex brother

[Tom Pilling]

What a load of f***ing crap this all is.

239 people dead, 227 of them passengers. You arseholes.

And I'm an arsehole too, by the way.

(If you take issue with these statements and wish to talk with me in person, please send me a PM.)

And in the meantime:

Uri Geller made mileage out of a missing passenger plane. What more is there to say on this thread? That he bends spoons? That he has embraced his profession to the point that his public persona reflects it? So has Derren Brown. He starts his shows by telling you that he is going to lie to you; by the end you've forgotten it, and are amazed. People walk away saying, "I know he said it's not true, but it is!"

[Please note, the gaff is blown before its use, not after. Dear me.]

You can creep around someone who has achieved the greatest celebrity all you want. You are welcome to it. Welcome. It doesn't make them the greatest at anything else, it only makes them the greatest whore, in most cases. And that takes considerable talent at whoring. I don't confuse the two, myself. Many entertainers I have met confuse the two. The better ones don't.

(If you disagree with the statements in red, then let's go! And wasn't that an 'orrible bit of colouring? )

[mrnikko]

Wasn't he paid a large sum of money as a "psychic geologist"? I can't see how anyone can defend such a con artist.

If I could fight any celebrity I would fight Uri Geller.

[Richard Kaufman]

Somehow I think the point here, at least my point, has become obscured.

I think Geller is the greatest close-up magician of the last 50 years. Why? Because people believe he does real magic. Isn't that what being a magician is all about.

It has nothing to do with telling fortunes, or psychic surgery, or any silly stuff like that.

Everyone has their own taste: I found that watching Penn & Teller fire pistols at each other on stage to be nauseating. They pretended it was real, but it seemed completely fake to me (obviously there's no danger because they have another show to do the next night, and they've done this hundreds of times before).

I find the idea of firing a real and supposedly loaded gun at at another person on stage, live, incredibly offensive. Think of all the people killed by gun violence, suicide, and misadventure every day--do you think that any of the families of these people who happen to find themselves in the audience think the spectacle of watching two guys firing guns at each other is even remotely amusing? Not only is it bad magic, it's bad showmanship and a lousy anti-climax to an otherwise excellent show. And you can tell by the reaction it gets from the audience, which is demonstrably less than a lot of their stronger material receives.

I don't find any of what Uri Geller does in his motivational speeches, where he does magic (he calls them "demonstrations") to be even the tiniest bit offensive. You're free to react or relate to what he does with whatever intelligence you possess.

All of that aside, I will repeat again that, in my opinionm he has stepped over the line a few times in the past. Once may have been something about locating a missing child decades ago. He seemed to have realized this was an error and avoided saying anything of that type until recently. I would say that he stepped over the line of what most of us would consider good taste and decency by making any statements whatsoever about this missing airplane that has apparently crashed in the ocean for unknown reasons.

As far as his being paid to be a "psychic geologist": if someone was dumb enough to give me a pile of money to guess where valuable elements are located on the planet, I would take it and go do some scientific research. Sometimes you strike gold, or oil, or whatever, by luck, and sometimes through hard work. It doesn't matter how you get the job, only if you succeed. Success brings more work in the area, failure not so much.

[Tom Pilling]

Could a new thread be started, then? I'm sorry, Richard, but as eloquent and careful as your latest post is, it only serves as obfuscation in this latest Geller moral failure.

Why refer to historical Geller failures, and talk about a perceived redemption, when this one is staring us in the face at this very moment?

[Edward Pungot]

check = check

[Jonathan Townsend]

There's something to discuss when it comes to what we mean by a magician in our craft and whether Geller fits our definition. I'm looking at the phrase "actor playing the part of a magician." - both in French and English thanks to Angelo Lewis - and finding that the actor/theater notion is misapplied. The theater has its proscenium arch.

Presti digital hashtag

[Richard Kaufman]

Obfuscation? I wrote to clarify, not to obfuscate. It accurately represents my point of view.

[Brad Henderson]

did Geller call the news or did they call him. Watch the cnn report where they followed up on suggestions to consult a psychic. if your customers (viewers) are asking you to call a psychic, wouldn't you appease them? Isn't that what capitalism and commercial news is all about today?

So one of them called the most famous psychic in the world - and he handled it as well as he could. Don't blame the guy who bends spoons because some idiot believes twisting metal would indicate an ability to find a missing plane isn't the fault of the spoon bender.

At this point in geller's career what else can he do? Say 'just kidding'?