RED by Craig Petty

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 7th, 2014, 8:21 pm

Andrew Charles wrote:
I'll go with occam's razor on this one which would suggest that accute, selective amnesia is not the cause.


I do so agree with you. William does, after all, offer the sharpest cuts in town.

I feel that he would be keen, also, to do away with the 'my friend might have posted it on my account, in my name' theory. Even Mr Petty concedes that this is "unlikely".

User avatar
Q. Kumber
Posts: 1648
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Manchester, England

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Q. Kumber » January 8th, 2014, 6:15 am

Lest there be confusion, when Craig refers to his business partner, he is not referring to David Penn.

Magic Fred
Posts: 173
Joined: June 7th, 2008, 2:27 am

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Magic Fred » January 8th, 2014, 6:20 am

Tom Pilling wrote:
Andrew Charles wrote:
I'll go with occam's razor on this one which would suggest that accute, selective amnesia is not the cause.


I do so agree with you. William does, after all, offer the sharpest cuts in town.

I feel that he would be keen, also, to do away with the 'my friend might have posted it on my account, in my name' theory. Even Mr Petty concedes that this is "unlikely".


Also, would he not be able to look at the other 5 tricks in the list and think "oh yeah, that was me..." or otherwise.

Even in today's world of political correctness and lawsuits... yeah... I think we can say it... Craig Petty is a liar*.

























*allegedly**

**just my opinion

User avatar
Tom Stone
Posts: 1278
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Stone » January 8th, 2014, 6:44 am

Magic Fred wrote:Even in today's world of political correctness and lawsuits... yeah... I think we can say it... Craig Petty is a liar*.


No matter how annoyed and frustrated one becomes over things like this - shouldn't the real purpose of these kinds of "name and shame" be to pressure those who does wrong to amend their ways and do right?

If I understand it right, there is now a dialogue between Craig Petty and Bob King - and that is what is desireable, right? "Name and shame" at this point have no constructive purpose.

Magic Fred
Posts: 173
Joined: June 7th, 2008, 2:27 am

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Magic Fred » January 8th, 2014, 6:59 am

Tom Stone wrote:
Magic Fred wrote:Even in today's world of political correctness and lawsuits... yeah... I think we can say it... Craig Petty is a liar*.


No matter how annoyed and frustrated one becomes over things like this - shouldn't the real purpose of these kinds of "name and shame" be to pressure those who does wrong to amend their ways and do right?

If I understand it right, there is now a dialogue between Craig Petty and Bob King - and that is what is desireable, right? "Name and shame" at this point have no constructive purpose.


Of course you are right, at the end of the day that is the most important objective.

But we're all human... (don't tell Mr Townsend that I began a sentence with "but")

There is a little more to this one though, as it *seems* the guy is still lying through his teeth about it and, as "petty" and vindictive as it may seem, there really needs to be consequences for this kind of thing or they'll just keep doing it. Too easy to get away with and fix later with a simple "oops."

I know we don't live in a perfect world and we will never be able to eradicate this kind of thing, but we can at least try.

We have already lost too much thanks to the antics of mister Petty and his ilk.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8155
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 8th, 2014, 8:31 am

Tom, it's the vendors who would sell material, publishers who would print the material and any who would build upon that material who are on shaky ground and very thin ice.

What percent of their other items offered have similar provenance?

If you're paying for the "secret"... is part of the secret the "real work" and the actual provenance of the item or is that a separate product with its own issues?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby mrgoat » January 8th, 2014, 9:48 am

Further amusement.

Penn claimed they don't refer to this debacle in their youtube show this week because they filmed it last week.

But, on Facebook they say they had Oberon in on Monday filming the show.

They really should think their lies through a little more!

Magic Fred
Posts: 173
Joined: June 7th, 2008, 2:27 am

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Magic Fred » January 8th, 2014, 10:04 am

Alright Mr. T, for the sake of the discussion, which I think is an important one, I'll do my best at deciphering and responding!

Scratch that. I've just sat for a while attempting to dissect your post, extract some meaning from it and make a considered point-for-point response. I genuinely was not able to identify a single coherent argument, nor a general sentiment to which I could respond.

Are you saying that it is the manufacturer and sales outlet who bears the moral responsibility? If so, are you implying, specific to this discussion, that Petty has nothing to answer for?

What is the relevance of asking about the percentage of other items which are copies of previously marketed tricks?

Are you implying that, since you are not specifically paying to know the "provenance" of the trick, that it's acceptable to sell knock-offs?

I'm not trying to be snarky and I know you enjoy using elaborate language, but isn't part of the skill of language in making yourself clearly understood? You may as well be talking in an obscure 12th century Anglo-Saxon dialect. Sure, it might make you look intelligent, but you just come across as an overly-pretentious twit.

If I am the only one having these difficulties in understanding, then I apologize profusely. I always thought my skills in English comprehension were quite serviceable. Perhaps I am deluded.

Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 8th, 2014, 10:14 am

mrgoat wrote:Further amusement.

Penn claimed they don't refer to this debacle in their youtube show this week because they filmed it last week.

But, on Facebook they say they had Oberon in on Monday filming the show.

They really should think their lies through a little more!


Yes, you can almost hear the cogs whirring up in Rugby, as their brains go round and around like little hamsters. I'm sure it's not a case of desperately scrabbling to strike a deal with Bob King in time for next week's show. That's a crazy idea, right?

Because, of course, it's Bob King's trick to begin with. Maybe he'll choose to re-release it with a different company? Or not at all.

James Braund
Posts: 2
Joined: January 8th, 2014, 11:05 am
Favorite Magician: Ed Solomon

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby James Braund » January 8th, 2014, 11:15 am

Lurked as a guest for so long here but I can't juggle being active on too many forums however I'm done with the breathtaking ignorance on display in abundance over at the place that shall not be named so finally bit the bullet and moved to a new home here.

Richard Kaufman you are a King among men for providing us with this place, I can feel my blood pressure lowering with every keystroke and every thread I read.

God bless the Genii forums and all who sail in her.

On topic, the whole debacle is a sad spectacle; I'm looking forward to following the intelligent discussion here and seeing what (if anything) happens to resolve all the problems people have highighted.

S&F
James

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8155
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 8th, 2014, 11:54 am

James, there's a fair amount of willful projected ignorance in magicdom at large - imagining virtual audiences even more ignorant than the wannaperformer and writing to elicit complicity in replicating stupid bobble-headed virtual audiences in customers for magic product. Just imagine how clever you can feel at the next magic club gathering when you produce miracles(tm) from this latest DVD of material that somehow won't seem old cliche to the gang... :D

That said, around here there's also much in the way of attentive readership who not only care about where things come from but also care to do things in a way that sets a positive example.

Please don't mind my banter with magic fred about writing style. I have the feeling that he's with me on the side of products with integrity and a market that's respectful of inventors and their creations. Any warheads in the missives from this side are loaded with whipped cream, propelled by seltzer and fired by whoopee cushions.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

User avatar
Tom Stone
Posts: 1278
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Stone » January 8th, 2014, 2:13 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Any warheads in the missives from this side are loaded with whipped cream, propelled by seltzer and fired by whoopee cushions.

That should be your new signature! :)

Magic Fred
Posts: 173
Joined: June 7th, 2008, 2:27 am

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Magic Fred » January 8th, 2014, 3:34 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Please don't mind my banter with magic fred about writing style. I have the feeling that he's with me on the side of products with integrity and a market that's respectful of inventors and their creations.


Damned if I know!

NYCJoePItt
Posts: 66
Joined: April 26th, 2011, 7:41 am

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby NYCJoePItt » January 9th, 2014, 10:01 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:For those who don't click on Tom's link:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

That aside, as a matter of fact I have in the past written heatedly about others not giving credit, and been embroiled in one or two contremps myself. But I've pretty much given up.
Too old, too tired, and TOO MUCH TO DO!


I must say I have a whole new respect for both the Master Genii and Tom after reading through this thread.

The rock throwing in glass houses at other sites has my coffee pot boiling over... a bunch of kids yelling "off with (his) head."

I do confess to being a fan of the WPR weekly show. Craig's show persona is only one aspect of his livelihood. He is also a businessman, performer, and family man. I was happy to see him come out with an apology and a desire to do the right thing when he realized there was a problem with the effect he had released. Of course he needs some time to do some damage control and do the right thing.

Some people are acting as if he pulled a Hank Lee here. I don't think so.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby mrgoat » January 9th, 2014, 10:08 am

NYCJoePItt wrote: I was happy to see him come out with an apology and a desire to do the right thing when he realized there was a problem with the effect he had released.


a) He didn't really *apologise*, did he?

b) He didn't 'realise' there was a problem. He knew all along and is a despicable little [censored].

Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 9th, 2014, 2:12 pm

I think Tom was answering the word 'nefarious', with typical rigour.

My slightly different view is that 'malice' doesn't enter into it, but rather greed is the motivating factor. Thus Hanlon's razor is disposed of, at least in my analysis.

Anyone familiar with the method of this trick, the 'secret', will be perplexed at how anyone, no matter how stupid, could forget this trick, having first learned it, to such an extent that only a few years later they would subconsciously reinvent it.

Please, I urge those who are unsure on this point to make the effort, somehow, to find out why this is such a ridiculous notion. Clearly, as I am sure all members of this forum will agree, not least Richard and Tom, it would be outrageous for me to expose the method to Bob King's trick on this or any forum.

Of course, the problem some will have is that they can't buy Bob King's trick right now. I would be interested for other members of Genii, those who do know the secret, to share their thoughts on the likelihood of the 'subconscious reinvention' theory.

I reiterate the point made above, that it is Occam's not Hanlon's razor which is the more relevant in this matter.

This is not a case of "off with his head", but rather a refusal to accept obfuscation, and a natural antipathy to what seems to be a dishonest response to being caught out in dishonesty.
Last edited by Tom Pilling on January 9th, 2014, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MCJ
Posts: 6
Joined: January 24th, 2012, 10:56 am

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby MCJ » January 9th, 2014, 2:24 pm

NYCJoePItt wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:For those who don't click on Tom's link:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

That aside, as a matter of fact I have in the past written heatedly about others not giving credit, and been embroiled in one or two contremps myself. But I've pretty much given up.
Too old, too tired, and TOO MUCH TO DO!


I must say I have a whole new respect for both the Master Genii and Tom after reading through this thread.

The rock throwing in glass houses at other sites has my coffee pot boiling over... a bunch of kids yelling "off with (his) head."

I do confess to being a fan of the WPR weekly show. Craig's show persona is only one aspect of his livelihood. He is also a businessman, performer, and family man. I was happy to see him come out with an apology and a desire to do the right thing when he realized there was a problem with the effect he had released. Of course he needs some time to do some damage control and do the right thing.

Some people are acting as if he pulled a Hank Lee here. I don't think so.


This is about as blatant a rip-off and attempted cover-up as you're likely to see. It may not be as lucrative as Hank Lee's efforts, but it's in the same family of scumbaggery.

I would not be worried about the effect of this situation on the WPR. Even in a worst-case scenario where they stopped production altogether, we could certainly find two other charismaless dullards to stumble their way through magic reviews, yes?
"Juvenile and silly" -- Richard Kaufman

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8155
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 9th, 2014, 2:27 pm

@NYCJoe

It's not the "reinventor" but the publisher, retailers and distributors which are on thin ice here. Just how many other works they offer and have offered have similar problems? Just which secrets are theirs to tell, to sell and which are taken?

On the good side, there is no such thing as a secret for sale on an open market so please do discuss method in its base form and what distinguishes the offered routines that may well give the item merit as a script or "variation"
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 9th, 2014, 2:56 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:@NYCJoe

On the good side, there is no such thing as a secret for sale on an open market so please do discuss method in its base form and what distinguishes the offered routines that may well give the item merit as a script or "variation"


I understand your point, Jonathan, but I also have a genuine concern for what Bob King might think about it.

John McDonald
Posts: 380
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Chester, UK

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby John McDonald » January 9th, 2014, 3:01 pm

Hopefully this will get resolved soon to Bob King's satisfaction. Very sad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Best John

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8155
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 9th, 2014, 3:10 pm

Tom Pilling wrote:...I also have a genuine concern for what Bob King might think about it.


A polite email to the guy might get you that insight.

If I wanted the item that's where I'd go as well.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

James Braund
Posts: 2
Joined: January 8th, 2014, 11:05 am
Favorite Magician: Ed Solomon

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby James Braund » January 9th, 2014, 3:13 pm

The rock throwing in glass houses at other sites has my coffee pot boiling over... a bunch of kids yelling "off with (his) head."


Actually I left there because I felt that the anger was justified and people were saying those who were angry were in the wrong and were attacking the posters instead of the arguments. I still am yet to see a reasonable explanation for this mess that would negate the assertion that his isn't theft.

It's like the bermuda triangle of magic scandals - nothing adds up and each variable contradicts another one.

I don't think there is need for exposure of method as it should be obvious from the posts of people who do own it that the method is so complicated that it would be unlikely to be devised independently - possibly but unlikely. Further that notion is instantly discredited by the magicbunny post which shows Petty was aware of NWPs method. So to know the method and claim independent creation is in my view contradictory.

But it's true - the discussion is a lot more rational and cool headed here so I'm grateful to be able to see it play out serenely!

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8155
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 9th, 2014, 3:29 pm

There's no great mystery (or secret) in the dynamics of the magic market.

Retail magic needs product. The perception of novelty has its appeals. Much product can be sold by way of the personality of the salesman/performer. So far there is not a huge open 'sharing' of purchased secrets via the readily accessed internet. You can't sell skill. There is much to be said for an economy of scale in producing specialty apparatus and niche items to be used in tricks. Not many folks wish to study history or to respect the explorations of living artists. There are likely other axioms for the market and the ones described above might be reduced and systematized - but the ideas that bound the market by utility to the consumer and producer seem present in the above mentioned.

Maybe a couple of examples of how the market currently stays out of stepping on inventor's toes (and sales for their product) might amuse: I had a good result when doing two steals at the start of Schneider's Matrix - and what seemed a good blind spot for a coin transfer in that routine ...and that made it into Apocalypse Magazine. Steve Dusheck has a convincing vanish for the last coin in Schneider's Matrix and sells the gaff. Al can keep selling his manuscript and like Card Warp or Out of This World the item stands with its own merits.

There's something to be said for being careful about how one steps onto the shoulders of giants or how one advertises pebbles found on the beach.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 9th, 2014, 3:32 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Tom Pilling wrote:...I also have a genuine concern for what Bob King might think about it.


A polite email to the guy might get you that insight.

If I wanted the item that's where I'd go as well.


You are right, Jonathan. In fact, Bob King would be the first witness I would call in discussing whether there is any variation worthy of the term. Those who own both say there is not. Craig Petty has admitted that, to all intents and purposes, there is not. Bob King has said, on the Penguin Magic site, there is not.

But here's a question: if you combined, a) different coloured backs, b) rough and smooth, c) two limited stacks and d) a mathematical procedure, does it sound like a generic idea to you? The first two sound very familiar, when combined: we all think of the same thing. But that is a red herring; your roughing stick would make a great quantity of these decks.

I apologise if even this is too revealing. Please edit if necessary and slap me on the wrist.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 25112
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 9th, 2014, 3:48 pm

While independent invention is certainly possible--I have seen it quite a few times--it's unlikely the more parts are involved. Every time you add another layer, it becomes more unlikely someone else could have combined all those things in the same way. In the post above this one, where all the different parts are laid out, it makes it seem highly unlikely that two people would combine all those ingredients in the same way.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 9th, 2014, 3:58 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:While independent invention is certainly possible--I have seen it quite a few times--it's unlikely the more parts are involved. Every time you add another layer, it becomes more unlikely someone else could have combined all those things in the same way. In the post above this one, where all the different parts are laid out, it makes it seem hihgly unlikely that two people would combine all those ingredients in the same way.


Spot on.

Steve Hook
Posts: 808
Joined: October 21st, 2008, 11:50 am
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina, USA

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Steve Hook » January 9th, 2014, 11:43 pm

Tom Pilling wrote:
Spot on.


Good God in heaven...

Please, Tom Pilling, give it a rest why don't ya? You jumped the shark about ten posts ago.

Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 9th, 2014, 11:50 pm

Sleep, Steve Hook?

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby mrgoat » January 13th, 2014, 3:34 pm

Penn came to the session

Dealers were only open on Sunday. I looked three times and every other dealer was busy and pen was being ignored.

Later when I checked he as packing up early and going, while everyone else was still doing a roaring trade,

Made me very happy.

Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 15th, 2014, 4:19 pm

A four second apology occurred on today's Wizard Product Review. Craig Petty wore a three piece suit for the occasion.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby mrgoat » January 15th, 2014, 5:16 pm

Tom Pilling wrote:Craig Petty wore a three piece suit for the occasion.


He was in mourning for his morals.

Tom Pilling
Posts: 161
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Tom Pilling » January 15th, 2014, 6:08 pm

mrgoat wrote:
Tom Pilling wrote:Craig Petty wore a three piece suit for the occasion.


He was in mourning for his morals.


And later attended a requiem mass for his credibility.

Bibliophage
Posts: 87
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 1:49 pm

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Bibliophage » January 16th, 2014, 5:24 pm

I have heard that all of the irresponsible parties have been contacted by Bob and his representatives and that this may just get worked out.

I hope everyone involved does the right thing and quickly.

Magic Fred
Posts: 173
Joined: June 7th, 2008, 2:27 am

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Magic Fred » January 17th, 2014, 3:30 am

I still think Petty and WMS are getting off lightly with all the focus being on whether the trick was deliberately stolen or not.

Either way, the misleading advertising and downright lies on that place which we dare not mention were reprehensible. Quite clearly more than just a case of trying not to expose the method whilst presenting the trick in its best light...

I mean, people should be taking this personally. When you inadvertently buy the same trick twice because the advertising is so damn dishonest, there's a problem.

Dealers have been doing this kind of thing forever, yes, but that doesn't mean people have to continue to put up with it. At the end of the day, most experienced magicians with a little discernment are not taken in by this - that is not their target market - they are effectively preying on beginners and the inexperienced.

Why not just be honest and declare up front that there is a little "eki-voke" involved and that the trailer shows what happens only in the 50% of cases when the spectator says the right thing? Why not declare up front, if not show it in the trailer, that there is a little procedural detour before you can reveal the card. Why? Because then vulnerable beginners wouldn't be so easily parted with their money, and this is the sole objective of the boys at WMS.

I see this as an out and out con. Just as bad as, if not worse than resurrecting an old trick for use as the vehicle for that con.

User avatar
Angelo Carbone
Posts: 204
Joined: March 11th, 2008, 6:07 pm
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Angelo Carbone » January 17th, 2014, 11:22 am

While it's never nice to be ripped off whether that is the case here or not, Bob King has also been on the other side of the fence. I hate to drag this up but it seems everyone seems to be like "they should pay Bob for loses" etc. When has anyone reinbursed me for all my Out of Order loses (12 individual knock offs. YES TWELVE)? What's this got to do with Bob? In 1996, Bob released Re-Order and Auto-Monte - his "versions" of my Out of Order effect (riveted card transposition). Just by him changing the 'secret cut' from a straight line to a curved line, he thought it was ok for him to sell it. Man I feel like changing a tiny detail on the 'construction' of an existing marketed effect but leaving the method and effect the same. I mean it was ok for Bob right? So if Bob gets ripped off, poor Bob - internet uproar. If I get ripped off, nothing.

Rant over. Back on topic.
:-)

Angelo

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8155
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 17th, 2014, 12:53 pm

Angelo - the market is starting to correct itself with "tutorial" videos posted onto YouTube and more open discussion of method online.

Tolerating hucksters and ballyhoo in the magic market is becoming more expensive as more product gets examined in detail in public fora.

IMHO it's one thing to understand how cards with, as you put it, "secret cut" can change position when rotated around a rivet - and another to offer some application of that item for sale. Enough with unvetted and ill provenanced items advertised as somehow 'secret'. How well made? How useful? How well does the methodology adapt to customization of the props etc? How well are the required manipulations taught?

While you're here - what setup and deck switch do you recommend for your fine card rise deck?

@Magic Fred - why not just sell the beginners things they can use and enjoy instead of attempting to tease them with secrets? How about offering tricks like The Tamariz Rabbit? A slightly modified set of Adams Multiplying Billiards for use in the Three Ball Routine and the DeKolta gaff for multiplying? ... the Berland Thimble routine? The Stars of Magic as a reference book ... so many fine items available within reach of beginners that it just seems a waste to pollute the market and its literature with items that might not even merit mention in passing in our journals.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby mrgoat » January 17th, 2014, 1:30 pm

Angelo Carbone wrote:While it's never nice to be ripped off whether that is the case here or not, Bob King has also been on the other side of the fence. I hate to drag this up but it seems everyone seems to be like "they should pay Bob for loses" etc. When has anyone reinbursed me for all my Out of Order loses (12 individual knock offs. YES TWELVE)? What's this got to do with Bob? In 1996, Bob released Re-Order and Auto-Monte - his "versions" of my Out of Order effect (riveted card transposition). Just by him changing the 'secret cut' from a straight line to a curved line, he thought it was ok for him to sell it. Man I feel like changing a tiny detail on the 'construction' of an existing marketed effect but leaving the method and effect the same. I mean it was ok for Bob right? So if Bob gets ripped off, poor Bob - internet uproar. If I get ripped off, nothing.

Rant over. Back on topic.
:-)

Angelo


I was unaware of your great Out Of Order trick being ripped off.

I guess the difference is Petty did it via what I imagine to be the largest viewed magic review web show going. And lied horribly in the marketing. And lied about 'forgetting' the trick until someone found his Bunny post saying it was his favourite trick.

Next time you get ripped off, let me know and I'll be more than happy to champion an internet [censored] storm for ya!

Damian

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 25112
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 17th, 2014, 6:27 pm

The better the trick is, the more likely it is to get ripped off.

Angelo's trick is a work of genius, and part of its genius is its simplicity. Thus everyone has ripped off his trick because anyone can make it easily.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Ethan Leeds
Posts: 1
Joined: April 5th, 2014, 6:25 pm
Favorite Magician: Greg Wilson

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby Ethan Leeds » April 5th, 2014, 6:34 pm

As the mystery person that Craig Petty speaks about, I'd just like to say that there was no way I wrote that post and If I had the list would look very different since I don't perform card magic.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: RED by Craig Petty

Postby mrgoat » April 6th, 2014, 8:04 am

Ethan Leeds wrote:As the mystery person that Craig Petty speaks about, I'd just like to say that there was no way I wrote that post and If I had the list would look very different since I don't perform card magic.


I think everyone knew he was lying, but thanks for clarifying.


Return to “Buzz”