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FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: October 9th, 2013, 2:02 pm
by CraigMitchell
Helsinki, Finland look set to join Busan, Korea in bidding for FISM 2018.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: October 9th, 2013, 2:29 pm
by Richard Kaufman
That's interesting!

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: October 11th, 2013, 9:41 pm
by Jonathan Pendragon
Helsinki being a better convention than Blackpool would demonstrate, perfectly, the concept of Karma in the cosmos.
I remember Jim McKay interviewing an Olympic skier from Finland who competed in ski flying (ski jumping on steroids) a sport invented in his country. McKay mentioned the radical extremes of the ramps these guys flew down to be launched into the air and asked how this craziness was born. The skier replied cheerfully (as best as I can remember it), "I'm from Finland, we have most alcoholics and the highest suicide rate in the world, it did seem all that crazy to us."

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 10th, 2015, 6:43 pm
by Will Jung
Does anybody know when the host city will be announced?

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 10th, 2015, 8:06 pm
by Ristiharju
The voting results should be announced on saturday around midday GMT. You will find em for certain here and from FISM Facebook page.

As a finn who has lived my whole life in Finland and traveled quite a lot around the globe I cant but wonder the comparisons Mr Pendragon is making. Maybe I just understood his "karma" reference other way around since at least in my eyes one cant compare Finland to Blackpool or in England in any way shape or form???

I know that Mr Pendragon has been at least to our neighbor Sweden and most things that can be said about Sweden can be said about Finland in many ways. Except when measured with any sort of common measure systems that are used we tend to be ahead of Sweden in most of em.

Yes, there is common assumption that Finnish people drink a lot and in a way it is true but we arent even on top ten of the alcohol consumption of the world. We are actually just eight spots ahead of USA ;) And in suicides we arent even in top 30 of the world. Both are things of the past really but they have stuck with us giving us a bad rap without any reason to do so.

Also just a few facts about Finland for your information
Finland has been chosen to be the best country in the world more than once.
Finland ranked first in the World Human Capital index in May 2015
Finland is constantly on top of the list of the least corrupted countries in the world.
Our education, social security system and healt systems are right up there on top of the world.
Helsinki, the proposed venue for FISM has been ranked one of the safest cities in the world.
I could go on and on but you might want to read yourself by just googling a little.

So next time you compare us to something like Blackpool please, in all sincerity, check out some facts first.

Juha-Matti

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 10th, 2015, 8:13 pm
by Richard Kaufman
I, for one, would much rather be at a 5-day convention in the temperate climate of Finland than a 6-day convention in the incredibly hot and humid climate of South Korea during the summer.

Indications are that it will go to Finland, thought I've heard that there are some high officials pushing for Korea.

We'll known tomorrow.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 11th, 2015, 8:21 pm
by West McDonough
Ristiharju wrote:As a finn who has lived my whole life in Finland and traveled quite a lot around the globe I cant but wonder the comparisons Mr Pendragon is making...

So next time you compare us to something like Blackpool please, in all sincerity, check out some facts first.


Since Jonathan posted that a couple of years ago, I couldn't tell you anymore exactly what he DID mean. But I know Jonathan, and I know his views of Finland (and, for that matter, all Scandinavian countries), and I can promise you it was NOT meant as an insult to your country.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 11th, 2015, 8:36 pm
by Tom Stone
Ristiharju wrote:Except when measured with any sort of common measure systems that are used we tend to be ahead of Sweden in most of em.

Except, perhaps, in modesty. ;-)

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 12th, 2015, 1:53 am
by Jonathan Pendragon
WOW! I was not insulting Finland, I was praising it. I'm a skier, in my family it's almost a religion. I built ramps and was one of the first wave of skiers called "Hotdoggers." My father was an alcoholic and I tried to kill myself. Skiing was were me and my father found common ground. Every limit is in your mind.

I saw the interview live. The Finnish champion was wonderful in his joy of life in a place where the beauty is stark and dangerous if you don't respect it. My Mother's family came from Sweden through Holland and my Father's from Denmark (transplanted to England in the well known migration of 850 AD). My intent was to express the ability to enjoy and even soar in conditions (winter sports) that would make Blackpool look lame.

I sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding.

With Respect
Jonathan Pendragon

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 14th, 2015, 12:56 pm
by Marcus
Tom Stone wrote:
Ristiharju wrote:Except when measured with any sort of common measure systems that are used we tend to be ahead of Sweden in most of em.

Except, perhaps, in modesty. ;-)


Thanks, Tom. This made my day. :D

I would've preferred a trip to Helsinki rather than Busan in 2018 as the latter adds at least $1000 to my travel expenses I would estimate, but perhaps this will be a good time to discover South Korea.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 14th, 2015, 1:09 pm
by Richard Kaufman
The middle of summer is never a good time to discover an Asian country.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 14th, 2015, 1:28 pm
by Leo Garet
Richard Kaufman wrote:The middle of summer is never a good time to discover an Asian country.

Absolutely. And the UK's exactly the same. We've just had a heatwave (apparently) and temperatures were up in the high single figures. The rain was moderately warm, too.

Whew. ;)

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 4:30 am
by Jonathan Pendragon
Fearless leader (RK), why is it we never compete for the convention to be held in the USA? I remember arguments years ago about the hardship on Europeans who attend by car, carpooling and riding strapped to the roof of a car just to get there. Now, since Asia as held the convention multiple, what's our reasoning?

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 10:48 am
by Richard Kaufman
I cannot see a circumstance under which FISM would be held in the United States.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 11:12 am
by Bill Marquardt
I would suggest Canada, then.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 12:05 pm
by Ted M
Jonathan Pendragon wrote:Fearless leader (RK), why is it we never compete for the convention to be held in the USA?


The USA has been sending sub-standard acts to FISM, and this year the Society of American Magicians national convention had to cancel its contest due to lack of participation.

All logistical factors aside, I'd expect FISM would want a host country that shows more interest in magic competitions.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 12:53 pm
by observer
They should just always have it in the same place. I suggest Paris. Everybody wants to go there anyway. Whereas Busan does not appear to be an especially attractive destination, unless maybe you live in Pyongyang.

On a possibly more serious note, same location = hopefully, continuity of organization, development of experienced organizational cadre, greater logistical ease in implementing lessons learned.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 3:42 pm
by Tom Frame
Richard Kaufman wrote:I cannot see a circumstance under which FISM would be held in the United States.


Richard, can you elaborate on why you believe that FISM couldn't/shouldn't/won't be held in the US?

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 4:23 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Only FISM member societies can host a FISM convention.

The IBM and SAM would have to work together, and accept the stringent rules which FISM imposes, and the payment FISM requires, and that's just not going to happen. Plus, the President of FISM and the heads of all the other FISM societies would have to vote in favor of it. Not happening.

The only other entity in the United States that could host FISM is The Academy of Magical Arts and they've got better things to do.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 7:37 pm
by Tim Ellis
Any FISM Member Society is welcome to bid to stage a World Championship event. Here in Melbourne, Australia, we have been requested to prepare a bid several times but we have never found a way to make it financially viable.

It's also unlikely we'd get enough people willing to take the 14 hour flight from the USA or the 24 hour flight from Europe!


Of the previous FISM bids:

Rimini was able to afford to stage the Championships by producing a TV special at the same time to offset expenses.
Blackpool was able to afford to stage the Championships by running it "the Derek Lever way"
Beijing was able to afford to Championships because it had massive government support as they attempted to put China on the world arts scene.

Prior to that, several of the clubs that hosted FISM ran at a loss.

Busan is running the Championships with support from the city of Busan and their tourism body - plus they have managed to get several corporate sponsors including Samsung.

Busan 2018 website: http://kimyc.dothome.co.kr/xe/

It's notable that Busan, Rimini, and Blackpool all run annual magic conventions anyway so they already have structures in place.

It's also notable that Blackpool looked more like a Blackpool Convention and Rimini looked more like the Masters of Magic Convention than a "FISM".

That is the biggest challenge organisers face - how to run a one off World Championship of Magic and deliver a full "FISM experience" and at least break even at the same time.

It has frequently been suggested that it would be great if there was a core committee within the FISM organisation that would oversee each World Championship event, and work with the new team to deliver the goods and avoid making obvious mistakes. However, the current Board of Directors apparently don't see that as important and simply leave the new host city to their own devices.

In other words, if you win the bid to host a World Championships of Magic and promise a beautiful theatre for close up and an amazing banquet for the gala dinner, you can simply change your mind and hold the close up in a marquee in the basement and have dim sims and sausages for dinner thus maximising your profit margin at the expense of the delegates. There is nothing FISM can do about it. If you're cLever, you could employ the FISM President to book the acts for the Gala Show just to keep him on side for later just in case.

Historically, although FISM has been billed 'The World Championships of Magic', it has been a European event. Eric Eswin had a vision to see FISM staged all over the world, and established the Continental Championships towards that goal. There are some who would like to see it return to a European only event, but I personally love the international flavour FISM is now embracing and as 2015 will be the third time FISM has visited Asia, I would LOVE to see a FISM in North America, South America, Africa or even Australia. An ongoing World Championships event committee would be a wonderful way to help make that possible.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 15th, 2015, 9:17 pm
by Ristiharju
Dont know the details but no one ever mentioned that Stockholm or Hague lost money on FISM? And at those times FISM had usually around 2000 people attending. Now it getting nearer 2500 and convention cards are more expensive?

From Helsinki bid I just heard that they wouldn't had made really profit but they wouldn't have lost money either if over 2300 people registered.

Little scared of Busan FISM to be honest. Especially with all the sponsorship and rumors of not even Koreans themselves wanting it there. On their webpage it seems they started to save some money already ;)
bimf7002@gmail.com... oh well, at least gmail is free...
BIMF2018@All Copylight COPYLIGHT? :lol:

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 16th, 2015, 3:43 am
by Matthew Field
Tim -- Three years ago it looked like there would be no bids for a FISM city until the Blackpool bid emerged. Magic coventions are tough enterprises, just look at the recent S.A.M convention -- I'd love to know how many attended that. I heard it was poorly attended. I hope the IBM, about to take place, does well.

Matt Field

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 16th, 2015, 4:32 am
by Tim Ellis
The situation after Beijing was fascinating. From what I heard, a LOT of people were upset when Granada and Vienna lost the bid to host 2009 FISM to Beijing. Their way of protest was (so I was told) that no European club bid for 2012. Then in stepped Blackpool.

Blackpool was not considered an "ideal" host for FISM 2012 but as they were the only contender they didn't even bother producing a proper bid document and even started taking bookings BEFORE the General Assembly voted. http://www.linkingpage.com/magicnewsfeed/2009/7/29/fism-2012-blackpool-by-craig-mitchell.html

Many members of the General Assembly asked if the vote could be delayed so that another possible host city could be presented, but that was not possible, so Blackpool it was and history tells the rest of the story.

Re: FISM 2018 - Helsinki, Finland ?

Posted: July 17th, 2015, 4:38 pm
by Bill Mullins
Tim Ellis wrote: It has frequently been suggested that it would be great if there was a core committee within the FISM organisation that would oversee each World Championship event, and work with the new team to deliver the goods and avoid making obvious mistakes.



The World Science Fiction Society, the organization that administers the Hugo Awards for best Science Fiction, has a similar problem. Every year the Worldcon moves to a different city, and every year a new city must be chosen for upcoming conventions based on bids by competing groups. Obviously there are huge differences between literary awards and awards for performing arts. But reviewing how WSFS does it might be interesting.