"Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

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Dustin Stinett
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"Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Dustin Stinett » July 25th, 2013, 7:02 pm

On Facebook there is a thread that calls the young man on AGT's performance a "theft" of Justin Willman's version of Alan Shaxon's "Confabulation." What say you?

Willman (on Ellen):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOU2WXaDEs0

Collins Key on AGT (starts at 1:07):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO1bi0pMlCk

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Joe Pecore
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Re: Theft or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Joe Pecore » July 25th, 2013, 7:15 pm

I like Copperfield's version better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bZ8JUP7TYc
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Re: Theft or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby erdnasephile » July 25th, 2013, 7:33 pm

Didn't Keith Barry do a version as well?

(PS: I think magicians on these reality shows should come up with a different bio spiel. The whole "I was a loner" deal, while probably true, unfortunately sounds like a cliché when it's said by so many on TV.)

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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Dustin Stinett » July 25th, 2013, 10:44 pm

Many, many people do many, many versions.

Joe: You should see David's newest version. It will absolutely blow your mind. It did mine, and I was lucky enough to be among those who caught one of the balls, so I was part of it and have quite a souvenir!

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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Geoff Weber » July 26th, 2013, 1:03 pm

While it is "just another version of confabulation" ( using Doug Malloy's prediction chest), the exact presentation', theming it around twitter, even using the same exact 3 tweet topics were ripped off verbatim, when you do this type of thing, you can predict ANYTHING in the whole wide world, so why do the same 3 things? It's straight up theft of Justin's (superior) routine.

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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Dustin Stinett » July 26th, 2013, 3:35 pm

I agree Geoff.

While watching this on AGT, I was explaining to my wife how, while the trick is commercially available, what we are supposed to do as artists is "make it our own" through presentation. I was very disappointed to see him do this and, worse, be rewarded for it (though you cannot blame those doing the voting because they don't know any better; the responsibility is all on Mr. Key).

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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 26th, 2013, 4:00 pm

If the trick is commercially available, then anyone is entitled to perform it, script that comes with the product and all.
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby The Magic Apple » July 27th, 2013, 11:36 am

This is 100% THEFT on Collins part! Yes, the effect is marketed and anyone can do it BUT the Twitter theme belongs to Justin. He performed this on Ellen over 15 months ago and it is the EXACT SAME ROUTINE that Justin came up with. About 6 months ago, this kid e-mailed me the link of Justin doing on Ellen and asked the name, how it works and if I sold it! I denied him all of the information and now he is doing on National TV

He should be pulled from The Castle Week next week and something needs to be done. If something isn't done about it now, when will it end!? Will he do make the Statue of Liberty disappear next? Will he take a bottle that contains a deck and smash it to reveal a named card with a signature on it? Will he freeze himself in a block of ice for 3 days?

The magic community needs to pull together and stop things like this from happening!
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 27th, 2013, 11:39 am

If Justin Willman had written down his script for the trick and copyrighted it as a play, then he might have a case for copyright infringement. Short of that, I don't believe the law protects presentations.
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Tom Stone » July 27th, 2013, 12:38 pm

Copyright is automatic, Richard. Saying that something should have been "copyrighted" doesn't make sense. The performance on Ellen is documentation enough to satisfy all requirements for being realized and all. If a presentation can be covered by copyright at all, it will cover this as well.

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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 27th, 2013, 1:10 pm

Well, then perhaps Willman would have a case if he wants to pursue it. The question is ... is copyright automatic in the United States, I suppose.
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby JHostler » July 27th, 2013, 1:43 pm

Copyright is automatic, Richard. Saying that something should have been "copyrighted" doesn't make sense. The performance on Ellen is documentation enough to satisfy all requirements for being realized and all. If a presentation can be covered by copyright at all, it will cover this as well.


And yet another discussion is pinched. (Of course, as discussed an nauseum in 936 other threads, Tom's information is incorrect vis-à-vis the United States. But I digress.)
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 27th, 2013, 2:55 pm

f Justin Willman had written down his script for the trick and copyrighted it as a play, then he might have a case for copyright infringement. Short of that, I don't believe the law protects presentations.


it was written into the memories of his audiences (who are part of the dramatic structure of a magic show), onto any practice videos, his notebooks and any home videos. It's not as if he does a different script every show - different events, different tweets, different revelation...
*
different context for illustration - as performed in clubs last year:
"and now, if we cut open this stuffed animal we find revealed in its entrails"...
* then a few months later as seen on a talent show ... and upon inquiry:
"...but my show is original and different since they used a goat and obviously I am using sheep - call it a homage if you must but he should be honored that I was inspired by his work..."
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 27th, 2013, 3:21 pm

I like Copperfield's version better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bZ8JUP7TYc


gotta love that convincer shot at 5:25
the premise of using graffiti on a wall with spraypaint - brilliant
the blocking of having the knife on the wall... bravo
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Anthony Vinson » July 27th, 2013, 3:26 pm

Did the judges vote Collins Key on to the next level of competition? If so it might be worth Justin Wilman's time contacting the show's producers. Seems like last season on AGT there was some bozo country singer who tried to pass himself off as a war hero in order to generate a sympathetic, patriotic response from the audience and judges. He was advanced, but later disqualified. Couldn't hurt, I suppose. But beyond that, has anyone contacted the kid to ask WTF? I mean, I know that the younger generations have a different perspective and attitude toward copyright and intellectual property, but come on!

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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby The Magic Apple » July 27th, 2013, 7:39 pm

Forget the low for now, MORALLY Collins shouldn't have done it!
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby Frank Quiroz » July 29th, 2013, 9:40 am

i'm curious to know what Willmans take on this is
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby JHostler » July 29th, 2013, 10:27 am

Not quite as big a deal, but Willman seems to have snagged the "Is this not impressing you?" line from Copperfield! (Of course, he could have sought permission etc. etc., and it *IS* a fairly elemental statement...)
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Re: "Theft" or Just Another Version of Confabulation?

Postby P.T. Murphy » July 29th, 2013, 5:17 pm

When asked to name a city...

AGT Host: "Out loud?"

CK: "Yes out loud."

:shock:
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