Real Secrets Weber Bonus and Email

[Bill Marquardt]

I subscribe to Genii. Every month I receive a paper copy in the mail. I also download every issue onto my iPad and view the videos and listen to the audio files. I have access to digital files of every issue of Genii ever published. Should I ever, for some unfathomable reason, decide to no longer subscribe to Genii, I shall no longer have access to the digital versions but I shall still own the hard copies of the issues I actually paid for. THAT is what Mr. Kaufman and some others are pointing out.

I remember when the desk top computer was going to create the paperless office. In fact, quite the opposite happened. Everyone with a computer on his desk believed it was necessary to print everything that appeared on the screen and to share it with everyone else. Paper usage increased to unheard of levels. Now we are to believe that everything we ever hope to watch, or read, or listen to, will be available in the "cloud" somehwere for instant retrieval anywhere in the world and that physical copies will cease to exist. That may be your world, Mr. Night, but it is not mine. I will never own a smart phone with 4G (or the next G) just so I can hook up everywhere I go at the expense of $50 to $100 or more a month.

I am no technophobe. We own nine working computers in our home, two iPods and two iPads. I was a technical editor for a computer magazine at one time. But by golly, if I pay for something tangible, I want a tangible object in my hand, not some ethereal group of electrons in the sky. At the very least, I should be able to download a copy onto my own electronic device. If the RS people are going down the path of the non-ownership for the purchasers of their wares, then that is one more reason why I am glad they kicked me out of the club 48 hours after I joined. I can hear them shouting, "Resistance is futile."

[Richard Kaufman]

Chris, Nick would have never used the torrent in a deceptive way. I'm sure he just found something quickly and thought it would make his point without checking further. Case closed on that.

[Tom Stone]

So, regarding that scary screen shot posted by Nick showing all those sets of Genii magazine available for download. I used a little "google-fu" and found the exact page. You see, I was curious as to whether this is even an active torrent.

And, lo and behold, there's no one seeding this torrent. It's 2 years old and dormant. No one can currently get even a single issue from that particular torrent. We don't even know if it was ever a valid torrent. This is a very strange example, probably given in hopes that none of us would check or understand what we were seeing.

Or, maybe he thought it was unfair to bring attention to an active torrent?

Isn't it more strange to post a new screen capture of the exact thing Nick posted, and make it seem like Nick had tried to hide something? Because, already in Nick's post you see a big zero where the number of seeders are. And it also says the torrent is 2 years old. Everything Chris post as "new info" can be seen in Nick's post - the so called "google-fu" did not result in one iota of new info.

I think it is possible to disagree on the worth of special apps and copy protection in a more fair manner. (Not that I think I'm a role model in that aspect).

[Richard Kaufman]

Please don't bring up the torrent again--it's a tangent on which we do not need to travel.

[Chris Aguilar]

Whoops, just saw your request Richard and am re-editing this post to be a bit more relevant.

A good product, offered a fair price, without onerous restrictions on the user (I'm thinking Genii Subscription/ Archives here), would seem to offer enough value to preclude a lot of piracy worries.

Which is why it puzzles me that Real Secrets would devalue their product by making it harder to use. Not being able to download certain bits, no longer getting paper instruction in the mail, etc. seems unnecessarily harsh on the subscribers.

I can only guess that they do these things because they don't think it will hurt their subscription numbers. It will be interesting to see if adjustments are made.

[Richard Kaufman]

Fine--please let that be the last word on the torrent.

[Matthew Field]

My experience has been that Revizzit is user unfriendly and not for me. If I had known that Real Secrets would be distributing material using this program, I'd have had to think twice.

Nick says Revizzit is a bonus to subscribers. Yes, a bonus pain in the ass. You can authorize up to 3 computers for access. Why 3? Why not 2 or 4? I've got an iPod, tablet, Android phone and my desktop. That's 4. If I want to read something where there's no Wi-Fi, like on my weekly train ride to London, I can pay for telephonic 3G connection or -- I can't access the cloud. So I download stuff I want to read (or watch), and I'd like to be able to decide for myself how to store info I've paid for.

I like to store printed instructions with the magic tricks I own. Real Secrets has decided I can do that for RS14, but not for the bonus material for previously released items.

I have been very happy with my RS subscription, and the bonus item for year 1, and the RS13 trick, have been more than worth the subscription.

They say that with Revizzit they can have a forum (not working) and that now we don't have to check in to their website. But we have to check in to Revizzit, so what's the difference?

Anyway, onward and upward.

Matt Field

[Arcato]

I think the main concern everyone has with Revizzit and similar services (me included) is that publishers can change / update and/or delete their content at free will and we as consumers can do nothing about it. Although Nick is selling this "updating" as an improvement, I think it's rather the opposite.
Moving RS to Revizzit is an interesting new step which I will follow along, because I'm curious how it develops, especially with the opportunity of a closed forum for its members... what I fear is that the instructions won't be downloadable as PDF for upcoming installments and screen captures are a PITA, but still an option at least...
As Nick said, all documents are watermarked, so I think it shouldn't be a problem to make the instructions downloadable for members... .And I agree with Scott that piracy will unfortunately never stop.
I hope that RS will send out automatic e-mails when new content is available in Revizzit. That's something that should be easy...

[Tom Stone]

If I want to read something where there's no Wi-Fi, like on my weekly train ride to London, I can pay for telephonic 3G connection or -- I can't access the cloud. So I download stuff I want to read (or watch), and I'd like to be able to decide for myself how to store info I've paid for.

That's true - but so has it been with every new way of distribution. When more creators began to release their work only on VHS video and later on DVDs, I was quite ticked off, because with books I could assimilate the material wherever I wanted, riding a train, sitting underneath a tree etc. But with VHS, that was not possible. With a tablet, it is possible again - if you have enough memory.

Cloud distribution is still rather new, but will likely improve rapidly. Spotify have the same disadvantage, you can listen to almost any music you want, without needing to have physical storage for it, but when you move out of WiFi range, you're toast.
Same with cloud distribution for magic study. You don't have to bring unlimited number of external hard drives to access a huge number of items... but you need WiFi. Good and bad.
My main problem with Revizzit isn't the cloud access, but that some parts of the user interface are slightly confusing.

[skeptic555]

Interesting, isn't it, that all the initial hubbub and controversy around discussing RS effects has been lost amid all the discussion around their business practices.

I am a techie and a geek. I have my music collection backed up in the cloud. I have purchased maybe 5 e-books, even though as a family we own 6 tablets for 4 people. I have not bought a movie on DVD or Blu Ray in years - I am streaming only for that. But indeed I've never thrown out a paper Genii. So, yeah. All over the map.

And I am not a fan of Revizzit for RS. Magic stuff - like books - is better when it is tangible to me. As was mentioned, Revizzit could go under. RS could decide to stop licensing its service. Revizzit could be a great success, be bought out by a one of a thousand different companies for its IP and shuttered overnight.

So I'll figure a workaround. Screenshotting and printing isn't difficult, just aggravating. I do wonder if and how a digital watermark gets copied in a screenshot. Someone with time on their hands and the full adobe acrobat SW could easily enough C&P out the text only. Someone with a LOT of time could just retype it all out. I get what they are trying to do, but all you can really do is make it frustrating and difficult - mostly affecting the legit customers.

This is not about flexibility or access or consumer convenience. Revizzit does what it is supposed to do - protect the content creator. Period. It fails where all others have failed - it cannot do that while simultaneously providing transparent, fair, easy and permanent access to legitimately bought and paid for content.

[Richard Kaufman]

I don't think there's any question that Revizzit will be bought by a larger company. Isn't that the dream of most startups? It's just a question of when.

[J-Mac]

I don't think there's any question that Revizzit will be bought by a larger company. Isn't that the dream of most startups? It's just a question of when.

I hope it isn't Google! They have a way of buying up small start-ups and then stripping them of most of the features that made them successful in the first place.

Look at Google Voice as an example. Many think it is great, but those of us who initially used it when it was Grand Central saw the service shut down for a year and a half after Google purchased it, and then Google finally released it as Google Voice - with many of the features that made Grand Central so popular gone.

Not to mention that of more than 200 "projects" Google has released in the last 12 years, 90 have since been canceled and abandoned.



Jim

[Jonathan Townsend]

how can it be any kind of secret when the content is online?

lolzsec prank?

[Richard Kaufman]

Isn't it odd how the material might have been more secure in simple paper form?

[Scott Fridinger]

Sometimes business fail or websites just simply stop working.

I recently bought pictures from Sears Portrait Studios. I haven't gotten them, because the company (which apparently has nothing to do with Sears) simply shut down. Employees found out when they went to work, the doors were locked. Now, I only lost about $18, but there are people who lost hundreds of dollars.

I love online availability, but I want physical things. I get Reel Magic DVD's and I subscribe online. I will drop the online before the DVDs, because they are real. I buy Blue Ray/DVD and Digital copies, but I will never buy a digital copy without a Disk attached to it. I love the internet, but I live in a world were real things trump digital things. I love the Digital Genii, but would not trade it for the paper.

In the end, you can't stop piracy, you can only make life more difficult for honest people.

Anyway, I think this thread may be on it's last legs. We will see how it all works out in the end. Good thing is, looks like the RS team has the power to enable downloading if they want, perhaps it will change. Don't know if I like the idea of stuff just dissapearing though...

[Ian Kendall]

I think all the talk about Revizzit (or the Cloud in general) going down is moot; even with no notice, RS have everyone's email, and it would be trivial to roll back to a static site or even email PDFs of the 'lost' information.

There is, however, another option; while the information is online, perhaps people could try learning the routines? Even to read through them a couple of times will help in the long run...

[Bibliophage]

Mr. Kendall,

Are you out of your mind!?!

I am far too busy backing up my backups, printing out duplicate copies of all my screen caps and then spending the rest of the day using software which is far riskier than Revizzit to make video captures of every page of everything.

I do not have time to learn any of the routines right now, but everything is still sealed in its original plastic wrapper so that some day, after I watch all the DVD's I bought (that are still in their original plastic wrapping) and I go back and learn the tricks in Genii and Magic Magazine (and from my Carney subscription) THEN I know I have everything I will need to learn these no matter what, anytime, anywhere I want.

I am almost through the first disk of the first EMC DVD's and as soon as I finish all three years of those, I will have time to watch the Dani DiOrtiz DVD's and the new edition of the Vernon DVD's.

So don't tell me what I can or can't have and how I have to access it. My therapist has told me that I will have to live to be 207 and live on an island to even look at 10% of all the magic I have already accumulated so the idea of putting aside 10 minutes, once a month, to sit with a new physical prop in my hands and work through the instructions just once is out of the question.

I am a busy person with a busy and important life outside of magic so I am glad that I don't have to check the stupid RS website twice a month for "extras" or "bonus material" any more. I never did it check it before, and I didn't even know about it for the first nine months of my membership, but now that I know that it did exist, I want it all - printed out, handed to me in person, and read to me as I drift off to sleep each night (my new TTS PDF reading software allows me to do that with all the good ebooks, but not with RS.)

When I pay less than $15 bucks a month for something, and I know that a few bucks of that goes to printing, manufacturing and postage, I want to be sure that I am getting $25 to $50 in product, thinking, service and quality each month.

Call me unreasonable, call me difficult, call me anything you want, but don't you dare try to call me a Magician until I have the time to learn one of these things I bought (and I am too busy backing it all up right now because I know that if I print and save everything enough times in enough places I will not ever die.)

[Ian Kendall]

The scary thing? It's hard to tell if that is satire or not...

[stereo]

All your precious time wasted writing this lament ...
This is not reasonable.

[Richard Kaufman]

It's a satire. A little heavy-handed, but effective nonetheless.

[stereo]

Yes, very funny, very very funny...
And so true...

[Gordon Meyer]

I think this is a horrible move by RS. I don't like being treated like a criminal-in-waiting, I find Revizzit's design offensive, and from a technical perspective it's shortsighted:

Real Secrets requires Revizzit which requires Adobe AIr.

Now RS sits atop two foundations, both of which are out of their control and are non-standard. Neither of these will last in the long term. History will tell you why.

I wasn't interested in the Carney series because of this, and I never would have signed up for Real Secrets if this had been disclosed in advance.

[Brad Henderson]

this will kill my experience with rs, I fear. I hate using my computer (even more so now that I made the HUGE mistake of buying one with windows 8), and if I want to learn something I dont want to do it at my desk. i looked for the app in the app store and received a 'no match' result. As my iPhone won't update I can't use most new apps anyway.

There was something nice about getting a surprise in the mail and being able to sit down and play with it. Now one has to go on a journey and jump through hoops. I realize for many, these tech things are second nature. But for me they are a barrier to entrance.

like many, I'm one of those who has never bought an e book or an online movie. In the first case, I don't want to read on a screen. In the second, if I like something enough to want to own it, I want to 'OWN' it. Reading a page of instructions online is ok, but to not be able to print them out either to archive them with the prop OR to be able to use them at a location more conducive to Learning than one's desk is really too much.

I loved the idea of real secrets and thought the material and concept were both great and was a very happy subscriber.

Now I don't think I will ever be able to see the instructions for another of their items again.

bummer

[stereo]

It is unfortunate that this new interface is not just a "plus", in addition to the usual way with the pdf available too on the website.

Ideally It could have been a more without a less.
Not sure if this mean something, sorry for my English.

I also regret enormously not to receive the printed instructions with the trick in the envelope. Btw this is, ultimately, my only real disappointment. C'est dommage !

Anyway, the most important thing and the main reason that we subscribe is the trick. And at this level the RS team made a very good work. That's what matters. Rs14 is just perfect, really magical, its design is amazing because it really is THE good idea for this kind of routine. Like last month trick, it's really the kind of magic you can take with you all the time and allows to create an unexpected moment with the spectator.

[Edward Pungot]

I'll chime in and agree with those who prefer the printed instructions that go with the tricks. I like and have grown fond of the matching RS thick-gloss letterhead paper with the orange stripe on the side (it matches and goes with the envelopes). I like going off someplace with my tricks and paper instructions in hand sans electronic interfaces. The new platform just gets in the way of my enjoyment. For updates it's fine, for the meat-and-potatoes, keep it real.

[keeper]

I have supported RS thru the first year because they gave a quality product at a fair price but this might just drive me away. The product I paid for included printed instructions. It was a stretch when they stopped sending instructions and made me print them up myself. Now I can only print the main effect and not the bonus. I can appreciate that a bonus is just that, a bonus but this seems not very customer friendly. I do not practice magic at my computer and I desire to keep the instructions WITH the props that I purchased. I never thought I'd have to spell out something that obvious. A sad development indeed especially since this months offering is possibly on of their finest yet. It would be a shame to walk away from this but I feel like my hand is being forced

[J-Mac]

It is unfortunate that this new interface is not just a "plus", in addition to the usual way with the pdf available too on the website.

Ideally It could have been a more without a less.
Not sure if this mean something, sorry for my English.

Your English is just fine, stereo.

I also regret enormously not to receive the printed instructions with the trick in the envelope. Btw this is, ultimately, my only real disappointment. C'est dommage !

Anyway, the most important thing and the main reason that we subscribe is the trick. And at this level the RS team made a very good work. That's what matters. Rs14 is just perfect, really magical, its design is amazing because it really is THE good idea for this kind of routine. Like last month trick, it's really the kind of magic you can take with you all the time and allows to create an unexpected moment with the spectator.

I agree that RS-14 is their best so far, at least in my opinion. It's a shame that they seem to be making it difficult for so many users to use it as they wish.

Jim

[J-Mac]

As frustrating as anything else about this change in RS's policy is the fact that Revizzit does allow downloading of any and all content RS places in the portal... It is the Real Secrets Team - or Fearless Leader or whomever - that has configured the Revizzit portal to disallow downloading of Bonus items, and possibly any other content other than each month's "main event".

Just too damn much security methinks. I wonder... are the Real Secrets products covered by the PATRIOT Act?

Jim

[fredreisz]

Just a voice of agreement on protest at what RS is doing. Lots of second thoughts about having allowed the automatic renewal to go forward and not at all sure about a higher priced annual cost over $180 with essentially less service. Give me back my paper instructions in an envelop and downloadable bonuses that is to say, unlimited and file-able access to my "magic treasures." Peace...Fred (Reisz)

[CraigOusterling]

Anti-piracy is a waste of time and money. The only thing it accomplishes seems to be making the honest people deviant.

Using ONLY free open source code programs I can capture every pixel on my screen at 30 fps WITH audio if there is any present on any input AND output port on my computer. That is the 'high-tech' process.

You want low-tech? Pull out your super 8mm camera and point it at the screen and pull the trigger for video or use a Polaroid for screen captures! (The under 21's can ask your Grandpa what that is.) As archaic as this is it demonstrates the idea.

Someone already said this here, but I think its the best solution. Keep it offline. Send out paper instructions with any relevant apparatus included. (Go Floyd Thayer!) That way you make people do physical work to maliciously pirate the material. I've heard pirates are inherently lazy. Scan, turn to pfd, and send email is more work then drag'n'drop.

If you want to deter THAT, spend money on a program that water marks the customers name on the pages that you print. That way they have MORE work to pirate the material, or they expose who they are. That would be money better spent than on a company like revizzit. Wouldn't you rather see a watermark that says "Printed specially for username x" than deal with DRM crap?

But wait... what about a solution to video content?

The best I've seen so far is watermarking video files. Every frame is stamped with the customer ID. Vanishing Inc. did that with Tom Stone's video lecture. Although even this can still be defeated fairly easily its more WORK. Lazy, lazy, pirates I tell you. At least it shouldn't be offensive to see your own name on something you bought right? Didn't your Mother write your name in your underwear too?

OMG! Craig, are you a PIRATE, you ask?

No, but it's my job to know a lot about computers. Not that this validates my lame point of view above but at least it makes me FEEL validated!

[Bibliophage]

There a lot of concern about the box when what we are paying for is really what's inside.

Today I performed all three things we got this month. Great reactions each time. All keepers.

We've had one of them over a year and since I already knew the thing you need to know, doing it was almost instant.

The second thing we've all had for a month in another form. I was one of the ones who was vocally unhappy with the typo, and they responded in less than a month with that part fixed and they added something new and great to boot.

The third thing is the newest. It may be their most interesting material to date. I have not seen the two main parts of this used in magic before and they're great.

All the stuff fits in my pockets and wallet beautifully. I was able to successfully perform it all without access to a computer, iPad, smartphone or even printed instructions.

To me, DRM stands for "doesn't really matter" because whether I need to download and unzip a file, watch a DVD, remember a password for my streaming content or get new shelves built for my Stewart James books, I'm going to do what is necessary to have access to great magic.

Maybe I don't understand what all this is really about, but I thought it was about learning some great new magic.

[Richard Kaufman]

The issues here are not about the tricks: the recent output has been better than ever. But jumping through hoops and being treated like a bad boy is putting a crimp in the fun.

[Bibliophage]

In that case, this bad boy still wants a forum!

[Edward Pungot]

There's only one way to resolve this...
http://amzn.com/0743267516

[Richard Kaufman]

It appears you will get your Real Secrets Forum at some point, though exactly when and what form it will take is as of yet unknown.

[atkinsod]

The Revizzit approach may work out okay for RealSecrets.

iTunes used to provide only DRM'd music files, until the pressure from sites like Amazon (who offered DRM-free MP3's) forced Apple to drop their DRM. That happens when you have a product that you want to market to a LOT of people and there is good competition.

In the magic world, however, some creators do not WANT to market to a lot of people. Rather, they'd like to share their secrets with only a select few, and would rather not see their inventions appearing on every Torrent site and Youtube video. For these inventors, if you want the product, you'll buy it their way or not at all.

Thus, a limited access website, with a relatively high subscription rate (not necessarily based on what you get, but compared to, say, a Genii subscription) and DRM protected products help to achieve all these goals.

The main challenge, which is being seen in the posts here, is to prevent alienating the "insiders" by making them go through too many hoops to actually enjoy the product that you are providing.

Personally, I hate DRM and avoid buying products that use it whenever possible. However, I'm not a performer and not likely to subscribe to Real Secrets, so I guess my opinion wouldn't really matter anyway!

[Matthew Field]

In the magic world, however, some creators do not WANT to market to a lot of people. Rather, they'd like to share their secrets with only a select few, and would rather not see their inventions appearing on every Torrent site and Youtube video.

I don't think you'll find to many people marketing magic stuff who don't want to market to a lot of people, although most would prefer not having their product ripped off.

So I guess I don't get your point, atkinsod.

Matt Field

[Jonathan Townsend]

The criteria for selection - pay $ and don't complain or describe the product - defines the intended consumer. Got me wondering if this is Fight Club or First Step for this market?

[stereo]

I think you can remove "don't complain" of your selection criteria...

[erdnasephile]

The criteria for selection - pay $ and don't complain or describe the product - defines the intended consumer. Got me wondering if this is Fight Club or First Step for this market?

As Max said when RS was first being discussed here: "What's the first rule of Fight Club?"