The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

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mrgoat
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby mrgoat » December 14th, 2012, 6:28 am

brianarudolph wrote:Are you 100% certain that adding the name of the purchaser is the ONLY thing Andi's process alters on the video prior to releasing it?


Yes. I've discussed it with him.

brianarudolph wrote:And as far as inferring everyone to be a wannabe thief and it not being a reasonable business model is concerned, I wonder why the approach is taken by most retailers, airlines, etc.?


It isn't. There is no other purchase I can think of where you have to wear a security tag AFTER you have bought an item.

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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby brianarudolph » December 14th, 2012, 4:09 pm

It isn't. There is no other purchase I can think of where you have to wear a security tag AFTER you have bought an item.


Ever look at the scribbling on your airline boarding pass after you've passed through security?

Of course, you continue to confuse an electronically downloaded video with something like a leather jacket. The difference lies in the former being intellectual property in an electronic format and the latter being common tangible property. Sure, if you buy a leather jacket you have every right to resell it (you can even include the original security tag if you like.) But you can only sell that jacket once. After that, you can't resell it again since the jacket (and optional tag) is no longer in your possession. Want to sell the jacket again? You have to buy it back or buy another one.

Compare that to an electronically downloaded audio or video file. If you were so evilly inclined, you could download a hot new magic video and then turn right around and sell it to me. Then to Richard. Then to Nate. then to a thousand others. And then five years later to Ian, James, John, Paul, George and Ringo. The point being that every purchaser of intellectual property in an electronic format (even the illegal purchasers) has the potential to become a re-distributor of the property so purchased without forfeiting that property as part of the sale. In other words, every purchaser is potentially a very real threat to the original seller (them original creator/sellers seem to have this belief that only they or their officially designated licensees should be able to profit from the sale of their own intellectual/electronic property. They're funny that way.)

Even given that true 100% bulletproof copy protection is ultimately impossible (if one human is hell-bent on working around a device created by another human, it will eventually happen), I'd rather endure the minor annoyance of seeing my name emblazoned on my downloaded copy if it helps ensure that at least some of those sales that would otherwise be lost to piracy are spared for the original seller and it gives the original creator/seller the peace of mind to continue creating and selling.

I for one want to see more videos from Andi, Paul, Jason, Dan, Dave, Kevin and everyone and anyone in the magic community who can create such quality intellectual products. I do not want to see them run out of business by piracy or even the fear of piracy. Contrary to popular belief, copy protection is not designed to keep honest people honest. It's designed to keep quasi-honest people honest.

Kudos again to Paul and Jason on Volume Two. Here's to Volume Three in the near future!!!

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erdnasephile
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby erdnasephile » December 14th, 2012, 7:07 pm

So, are you allowed to resell downloads from Vanishing, Inc?

I could not find their policy on their website.

If you are allowed to resell, than that name watermark is certainly a discouragement to selling. (What if the person you sell it to decides to become a pirate seller? You'd become (in)famous in no time).

It's like getting a sports star to sign a ball for you. If he addresses it to you personally, it instantly loses much (if not all) of it's resell value. (Which is why at signing shows they typically ask you how you want the ball signed).

I think we alll want the above named creators to succeed and to succeed wildly. I personlly put my money where my mouth is and buy (and will continue to buy) lots of their products. Just because I don't care for having my name enblazened on a video, doesn't mean that I don't think that only they should profit from their intellectual property. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Yet, if we are defacto prohibited from reselling the stuff we buy, it does seem to reduce the value a bit.

I fully support the right of all of these creators to protect their creations in any way they see fit. I'm pleased that they are releasing such great stuff, and am happy to buy no matter how it is delivered.

However, I still believe, the best way to stop copyists is to come up with a quality product and sell it at a price that the market thinks is fair. I may be naive, but that same model is what allowed id software to sell millions of copies of Castle Wolfenstein and then Doom with no copy protection whatsoever.

Some research from Rice University in 2011 also makes a similar point: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/drm-music-p ... 12808.html

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erdnasephile
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby erdnasephile » December 14th, 2012, 7:28 pm

erdnasephile wrote:
However, I still believe, the best way to stop copyists is to come up with a quality product and sell it at a price that the market thinks is fair.


Of course, one of counterarguments is that lots of magicians apparently feel that the fair market price for magic ideas is zero.

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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 14th, 2012, 7:46 pm

There have always been people who copy material and then give it away or sell it to others. This has been going on since mass media first emerged. It's not new, and not news.
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby brianarudolph » December 15th, 2012, 8:24 am

erdnasephile wrote:So, are you allowed to resell downloads from Vanishing, Inc?

I could not find their policy on their website.


Maybe you should just call them or drop them an email if you're uncertain about whether they think it's OK for you to resell your purchases of their intellectual property in electronic format to others for your own fun and profit. Make sure they have your full contact information while you're at it in case they ever need it. Get that clarified ASAP. :)


erdnasephile wrote:However, I still believe, the best way to stop copyists is to come up with a quality product and sell it at a price that the market thinks is fair. I may be naive, but that same model is what allowed id software to sell millions of copies of Castle Wolfenstein and then Doom with no copy protection whatsoever.


That approach won't ever stop copyists, but it is one that will reduce it to tolerable risk levels. The the only sure-fire way to stop copyists is to not give them anything to copy in the first place.

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mrgoat
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby mrgoat » December 15th, 2012, 8:52 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:There have always been people who copy material and then give it away or sell it to others. This has been going on since mass media first emerged. It's not new, and not news.


In fact, the first printing press was viewed as a piracy machine.

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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 15th, 2012, 11:59 am

If you pay for something, then you have the right to sell it. Not copies of it, but you certainly have the right to sell the original item you've purchased.
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mrgoat
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby mrgoat » December 15th, 2012, 12:43 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:If you pay for something, then you have the right to sell it. Not copies of it, but you certainly have the right to sell the original item you've purchased.


Don't think that's in dispute, the point is if you sell it, it is branded with your name writ large all over the file.

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Gordon Meyer
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby Gordon Meyer » December 15th, 2012, 2:25 pm

I don't know that any magic producer has gotten sophisticated enough to deal with this nuance, but in the case of other commercial media, you're not buying the thing itself, you're buying a license. A license that is not transferrable. The notion of "ownership" when it comes to digital goods is so last century.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 15th, 2012, 2:33 pm

It may be "last century," but it conveys ownership of the item purchased and thus value for the money.
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby Ian Kendall » December 15th, 2012, 4:02 pm

The crux of this perennial debate is that digital goods, by definition, are not tangible. There is no physical item to transfer. The upshot of this is that, unlike with a book or a particular prop, it is possible to sell the item and yet still keep it.

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AJM
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby AJM » December 15th, 2012, 4:39 pm

Anyway, what are folks views on Vol 2's content?

Andrew
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erdnasephile
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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby erdnasephile » December 15th, 2012, 7:41 pm

brianarudolph wrote:
erdnasephile wrote:So, are you allowed to resell downloads from Vanishing, Inc?

I could not find their policy on their website.


Maybe you should just call them or drop them an email if you're uncertain about whether they think it's OK for you to resell your purchases of their intellectual property in electronic format to others for your own fun and profit. Make sure they have your full contact information while you're at it in case they ever need it. Get that clarified ASAP. :)


I wish to be clear: I was not referring to selling copies of what I legitimately purchased, but rather the one original purchase itself (and I wouldn't keep a copy for myself either). I was referring to selling the item like you would a book.

No one here is arguing for or encouraging piracy.

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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby erdnasephile » December 15th, 2012, 7:44 pm

AJM wrote:Anyway, what are folks views on Vol 2's content?

Andrew


I think Jason's first Ace routine on Volume 2 is worth the price all by itself. I'm adding it to my working set.

The advertising is accurate here: strong material with great impact, well within the reach of those who wish to practice.

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Re: The Unreal Work Vol. 2 - Jason England and Paul Wilson

Postby mwolfire » February 17th, 2013, 6:46 pm

Earlier in this thread I had complained about download problems and the need for an DVD version. I have since realized that in the streaming window, next to the progress bar, there is an orange "HD". If you click on that it turns off HD and now I have no problems at all. This works equally well for the Unreal Sessions for which I am now signed up for all 10. If anyone else has problems I would definitely recommend trying this solution.
Mark


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