Piff - the Russian version

[Timothy Hyde]

http://t.co/WDYVK2iC

[mrgoat]

Shocking

[Matthew Field]

Such is fame, I guess, that you have some pathetic Russian wannabe ripping off John van det Put's entire act. My heart goes out to Mr. Piffles.

Matt Field

[Richard Kaufman]

His dragon suit should have been all red.

[David Scollnik]

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2012/05/20/15422/youre_taking_the_piff!

[brianarudolph]

How do you say "Fart, The Magic Rip-Off" in Russian?

[Tim Ellis]

Hmm... and here's a Russian Tina Lenert copy.. not quite as blatant as Piff.. but still...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... G4gk8SAV0#!

[Ted M]

Seriously, can someone explain why William Robinson/Chung Ling Soo is celebrated, even considered "glorious", when he stole Ching Ling Foo's act and identity?

[erdnasephile]

Robinson was certainly not universally celebrated by his peers (pointed negative statements from Maurice Raymond and J.N. Hilliard come to mind). I would certainly never try to defend his ethics, especially where Foo is concerned.

However, there was certainly more to him as a magician/showman/con man than just being a copyist, as Steinmeyer's brilliant biography makes clear.

He was not a good guy, but he was a great magician.

[Jonathan Townsend]

e*, that sort of apologetics helps keep opinion of our craft down near the gutter.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Seriously, can someone explain why William Robinson/Chung Ling Soo is celebrated, even considered "glorious", when he stole Ching Ling Foo's act and identity?

Perhaps he lived the dream of so many in this craft? He left his job, abandoned his wife, used the law to bully someone out of their own act, pretended to be asian... and died onstage. Most here don't even have the courage to get onstage.

[Richard Hatch]

Piff comments on the copyist:
http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2012/05/2 ... plagiarist
Worth noting: the copyist was Ukrainian, not Russian, and one of the judges called him out the theft.

[Jonathan Townsend]

http://www.piffthemagicdragon.com/shop.html

much better :)

[fkaps1]

BTW, the jusge that called him out on the theft was Russian magician Kate Medvedeva.

[erdnasephile]

e*, that sort of apologetics helps keep opinion of our craft down near the gutter.

To be clear: I'm am not apologizing for Robinson's behavior whatsoever--Robinson was a BAD person. But to dismiss him only as such is ignoring the point brought up in the original question.

An apt analogy would be to consider the case of Ty Cobb. He was, by all accounts, a reprehensible human being (a racist and a dirty player amongst other things), but he is universally held up as one of the greatest players of all time. To acknowledge both of those points of view does not harm the public perception of baseball in any way.

Once again, I am not diminishing Robinson's sins--I don't admire the guy, and I think what he did was wrong. I was just trying to help answer the question posed in this thread (and to point out how good Steinmeyer's book was).

[Ted M]

In the case of Ty Cobb, it's a bit easier to separate those personal and professional aspects.

In the case of William Robinson, stealing Foo's magical act and identity were not personal acts. Those were actions taken as a magician. His famous career is built on those very specific actions. He effectively wore Piff's dragon suit for the rest of his life, and he is celebrated for all the amazing dragon magic he did.

Why are those actions seemingly so easily set aside when Robinson is evaluated as a magician?

[Tim Ellis]

Thankyou. I thought it was her!

[MickNZ]

Unbelievable.

[Dave V]

John Van Der Put (Piff) was at IMX this week and this was the "hot topic" of the week. He's doing a great job of mocking the other guy with his characteristic dry wit and playing off the whole situation, up to and including having an imposter (Craig Mitchell) in the dragon suit and coming out as "Piff" at the start of his lecture.

Of course it's a bad situation, but he's making the most of it and I'm certain he'll end up on top when it's all over.

[Brad Henderson]

Maybe Piff is really a warlock from qarth

[Jonathan Townsend]

? blue lips?
or perhaps the saying about the house?

kindly elaborate

[Simone M]

John Van Der Put (Piff) was at IMX this week and this was the "hot topic" of the week. He's doing a great job of mocking the other guy with his characteristic dry wit and playing off the whole situation, up to and including having an imposter (Craig Mitchell) in the dragon suit and coming out as "Piff" at the start of his lecture.

Of course it's a bad situation, but he's making the most of it and I'm certain he'll end up on top when it's all over.

I think the guy got roundly owned on national television in his own country already (and on youtube), so maybe he got mocked enough, no?

besides, he's a bad magician from an alienated country that didn't even exist 20 years ago, who stole Piff's personality on a cheap talent show, it's not that he's playing in the same league of Piff's is he?

[Brad Henderson]

@jt. The idea of multiple 'clones' roaming about combined with their acquisition of 'the dragons'.

It was a loose connection.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Thanks, and having just read Bruce Sterling's story Black Swan...

[Brad Henderson]

Saw the movie. Did not read game of thrones but enjoying the televised version.

And while a digression, I think many magicians might enjoy it. Lot's of plotting and anticipating of other's thinking.

[El Harvey Oswald]

The comparison to Ty Cobb comes apart a bit, in that it's not just about C.L. Soo being a "bad person." Rather, some might say he appropriated the very thing that came to be his source of excellence. By contrast, Ty Cobb's baseball excellence doesn't have a similarly dubious source -- as it might if he had taken "performance enhancing" drugs. Soo *did* enhance his own performance by stealing from another performer. The "bad person" aspect, isolated, shouldn't diminish the assessment of him as a performer.

[erdnasephile]

With regards to my Ty Cobb analogy--I agree that it isn't perfect, but part of Ty Cobb's game was being "the dirtiest player I ever saw" (per Connie Mack). Flaunting the rules of the game, tripping people, spiking players, etc., contributed to his achievements. In that small sense, there are some slight similarities.

That said, EHO has the better analogy, IMHO: athletes on PED: there are still those who argue they should be in the HOF. (I disagree).

One final thought: maybe the reason CLS is recognized as a great magician (despite his theft) is that he was able to so ably create and sustain his greatest illusion of all: Robinson as Soo.

[Bill Mullins]

On another recent thread, people are talking about how much they miss Johnny Carson. Heck, I'm one of them -- I always liked the Tonight Show, long before my interest in magic. Johnny was really good at what he did.

But last year I read a biography of him (the Leamer one), and while I had known that Carson was no saint, I had never realized just how bad of an example of a human being he had been.

The shows are still there, and they haven't changed a bit. Ed Ames and the Tomahawk, the visits from Joan Embry, the monologues are all just as funny. But I can't watch them the same as I used to now.