L&L Publishing eBooks

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 1st, 2012, 8:50 am

Brad, customer support for that ethos is destroyed each time "but you're paying for the secret" comes up in discussing trading currency for an unusable item. After that experience all bets are off on whether they will tolerate, condone or even actively participate in the market as willing cash cows to be milked for supposedly data of uncertain provenance and utility.

Those who do get it about supporting publishers and artists with reputations for usable work will likely pay full price for items that serve. This is part of the flinch reaction to someone selling a knock off of a Dean Dill item of proved utility.

Damian, any thoughts on a market for custom painted iPhones as portable artwork? Or re-purposing the cases as business card dispersers?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Ted M » June 1st, 2012, 10:22 am

Brad, a whole lot of people participate in the magic books market.

A very significant number have viewpoints vastly different than your own, and make their buying decisions very differently.

Your analysis seems to presume that the market is fully populated with Brad Henderson clones. It's just not the case. That results in your analysis being overly narrow.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Steve Bryant » June 1st, 2012, 10:30 am

I am a customer, and I just don't get the whining.

I own most of the L&L books and am thrilled to see them available inexpensively in ebook format. This way, I can repurchase favorites for the luxury of having them with me on my mobile device. I consider this an amazing capability and look forward to Richard's catalog becoming available.

I would NOT repurchase them at the original price. Indeed, I would perceive that as incredibly greedy on the part of the publisher if he marketed them as such.

I do not begrudge new magicians access to so many secrets that some of us became privy to simply because we became adults during an incredibly fertile book boom. That anyone would have to pay six times the original price for the information is obscene. Price aside, the sheer quantity of information is staggering, and I feel sorry for any new magician trying to catch up with it all.

The problem with ebooks, I fear, is that it will encourage publishers to do ebooks only. I love the recent Jonathan Pendragon book that Todd Karr published, but would have preferred it as a real volume on my shelf. And that will probably never happen.

I don't expect or even want to change anyone's mind here. I am just pointing out that from the perspective of this customer, I applaud what L&L is doing and look forward to what Richard and others will do.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » June 1st, 2012, 10:37 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Damian, any thoughts on a market for custom painted iPhones as portable artwork? Or re-purposing the cases as business card dispersers?


http://lifehacker.com/5576310/reuse-and ... old-iphone

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/old-iphone- ... -1553.html

there are some uses...

business card dispenser is nice though...

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Bill Mullins » June 1st, 2012, 11:06 am

mrgoat wrote: No such thing as scarcity in a digital age.


I have a Paypal account -- Please send me the link to download the Cervon Notebooks and the Harbin book. Also Fulves' Riffle Shuffle Manuscripts and a file of Prolix. And the third volume of Minch's trilogy on Martin Nash (I've been looking for a hard copy for years -- glad to hear the digital version is available!)

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Matthew Field » June 1st, 2012, 11:08 am

You're pretty funny, Bill!

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 1st, 2012, 11:18 am

Yeah, I heard that torrent with Prolix is not complete yet.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » June 1st, 2012, 11:28 am

Bill Mullins wrote:
mrgoat wrote: No such thing as scarcity in a digital age.


I have a Paypal account -- Please send me the link to download the Cervon Notebooks and the Harbin book. Also Fulves' Riffle Shuffle Manuscripts and a file of Prolix. And the third volume of Minch's trilogy on Martin Nash (I've been looking for a hard copy for years -- glad to hear the digital version is available!)


I hope you deliberately misunderstand me and are being amusing.

In case not, my point was there are no print runs of ebooks, there is no scarcity. Once it is made, you cannot run out.

Hope that helps.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 1st, 2012, 11:40 am

Brad's head is deep in the sand, with both fingers in his hears, while he complains no end about a subject that has been old news and obsolete for several years. ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz. This is all very tiresome.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Steve Bryant » June 1st, 2012, 2:14 pm

Re " Once it is made, you cannot run out."

True, but, as long as one is being legal and ethical, you can find things unavailable. Tom Stone did (does?) this with his ebooks, taking titles off the market now and then, just as Disney does with its DVDs.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 1st, 2012, 2:24 pm

Steve, you're talking about the interface of the open/direct market. If you ask directly you can often acquire what you desire at the expected price. Direct market w some brokerage is where where going. RK's got a portal to such here at this site and forum. JRiser is also exploring this idea with his offerings.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Tom Dobrowolski » June 1st, 2012, 2:27 pm

Steve Bryant wrote:I am a customer, and I just don't get the whining.

I own most of the L&L books and am thrilled to see them available inexpensively in ebook format. This way, I can repurchase favorites for the luxury of having them with me on my mobile device. I consider this an amazing capability and look forward to Richard's catalog becoming available.

I would NOT repurchase them at the original price. Indeed, I would perceive that as incredibly greedy on the part of the publisher if he marketed them as such.

I do not begrudge new magicians access to so many secrets that some of us became privy to simply because we became adults during an incredibly fertile book boom. That anyone would have to pay six times the original price for the information is obscene. Price aside, the sheer quantity of information is staggering, and I feel sorry for any new magician trying to catch up with it all.

The problem with ebooks, I fear, is that it will encourage publishers to do ebooks only. I love the recent Jonathan Pendragon book that Todd Karr published, but would have preferred it as a real volume on my shelf. And that will probably never happen.

I don't expect or even want to change anyone's mind here. I am just pointing out that from the perspective of this customer, I applaud what L&L is doing and look forward to what Richard and others will do.




Steve,

I agree completely. Well said. -Tom

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 1st, 2012, 2:36 pm

Perhaps some one can answer:

So, is elmsley's material now worth less? Is there an Elmsley 2.0 out there that made the original work obsolete? If not, why is it being sold at a price much lower than both the original retail or even the going secondary market rate - much lower than just the difference of the cost of a binding?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 1st, 2012, 2:52 pm

Elmsley's material is worth exactly what the purchaser of the book (printed or ebook) gets out of it. No more, no less.

No book has any inherent value except what the buyer gleans from it.

The value of physical books is related solely to the collectable market--what is someone willing to pay to have a paper version on their shelf. Me, personally I treasure the many autographed books in my magic library. They have value to ME because they have been autographed by the authors who are friends and people I respect. When they are eventually sold, they may have value to someone else. eBooks will never have this type of associated value.

Brad, you are completely hung up on PAPER, rather than the information being conveyed by the delivery system. The information is what is valuable, no matter how it is delivered to the reader. If you have a huge library of magic books and never read them, they are worthless.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Ted M » June 1st, 2012, 3:37 pm

Perhaps some one can answer:

So, is elmsley's material now worth less? Is there an Elmsley 2.0 out there that made the original work obsolete? If not, why is it being sold at a price much lower than both the original retail or even the going secondary market rate - much lower than just the difference of the cost of a binding?
Many reasons. Here are two obvious ones:

1) Supply just increased! That reduces demand, and drives prices down.

2) The secondary market rate was for a BOOK, a tangible, physical, collectible object which can be SOLD AGAIN when one is done with it. So one could pay $85 for Elmsley 2, explore it, and (if desired) resell it, probably for a little more or a little less. When a collectible object is bought, it usually (but not always!) retains a fair amount of its value, which can be recovered when it is sold again.

An intangible PDF file cannot be resold -- we don't have venues for reselling PDFs, since it's pretty hard to distinguish from piracy. Therefore nobody is going to pay collectible prices for PDFs.


The secondary market for magic books existed due to the size and cost of print runs, which created scarcity of a given book for years at a time until the publisher could be sufficiently certain of pent-up demand to do a reprint run.

That dynamic has just dramatically changed, at least for (a growing subset of) books from L&L. The product is no longer produced in batches, with a necessary gap between them.


Valuation of books may eventually swing back as people experience catastrophic loss of their digital libraries, and rediscover an appreciation for the enduring physicality of tangible books. But print-on-demand may satisfy that renewed demand without a return to the batch production (and accompanying time gaps which created scarcity) of traditional books.

Some publications will certainly remain steadfastly physical. But on the whole, absent those gaps between print runs of batches of books, the scarcity which drove those secondary market prices will no longer be operating.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 1st, 2012, 3:54 pm

Elmsley's material can NEVER be worth less, because the inherent value of the material remains now matter what form it's delivered in.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby El Harvey Oswald » June 1st, 2012, 4:05 pm

Well said, Richard.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby El Harvey Oswald » June 1st, 2012, 4:24 pm

Price and inherent value are different things. The price of the Elmsely book was greater when there was only the fixed supply of paper books. The price of the same material goes down with the supply becomes effectively infinite with the ebook's availability. However, the intrinsic value of the Ghost/Elmsley Count, En Voyage, etc. is unchanged -- unless, perhaps, the greater availability of the book results in the contents becoming too pervasive, performed badly. The Elmsley Count, at least, has survived fame and lots of bad performance, mine included, though.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby PapaG » June 1st, 2012, 4:26 pm

So we'll be seeing The Berglas Effects in ebook-form for $20 in a few years time?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 1st, 2012, 5:06 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:

Brad, you are completely hung up on PAPER, rather than the information being conveyed by the delivery system. The information is what is valuable, no matter how it is delivered to the reader.



Actually my position is exactly the opposite of the first clause and we are in complete agreement on the second.

It is the information that is valuable.

If the information has value (value set by the publisher) then it would seem the price difference between an ebook and the hard copy would be solely the difference of the paper and binding involved.

But that's not the price point structure we are seeing.

Ebooks with the same valuable information are being sold at prices much lower than the physical production cost differential.

Can you explain that to me?

The only possible way to read that dynamic I can see is that the publisher has decided to de-value that information. Otherwise the cost difference would be that of the book binding and paper.

That is what seems out of balance to me and strikes me as unfair to people who bought access to that information earlier. I have suggested that a viable way to support those who subsidized the creation of that material with their original purchases (who will see the value of their books decrease because the information is more available) would be to sell the ebook at at least retail price of the book or
More.

People who want the information can now access it. They couldn't get it at retail price before. Now they can. They don't get the binding, but hey - the information still has value (on which we agree) and now they have it.

Why is that such a bizarre idea?

It worked when I reprinted the dance in soft cover. Not a single hard back buyer complained and in fact some thanked me for looking out for them.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » June 1st, 2012, 7:07 pm

New ebooks are now available:

The Vernon Chronicles, Volume 2 http://bit.ly/Kyoxpb

The Vernon Chronicles, Volume 4 http://bit.ly/JTS5Q1

Bob Wagner's Master Notebook of Magic http://bit.ly/L5p8hN

(Apologies for doing the Vernon Chronicles out of order when V1 & V3 were released a couple of weeks ago)
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Ted M » June 1st, 2012, 7:33 pm

Brad, as you may notice from others' posts, it appears that many sales of these ebooks are to people who already own the physical book. They've already purchased the information. Now they're willing to pay a little extra to also have it in an additional format.

Those sales vanish if the ebook is priced equivalent to the physical book.

And as has been pointed out, unauthorized scans of most of these books are already floating around for free. Zero dollars is the alternative price point the PDF version has to compete with.

However since such rogue scans have been floating around for a while and many physical books have still commanded high prices anyway, that may suggest these ebooks may have less impact on the secondary market than some may fear.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 1st, 2012, 10:35 pm

Ted,

If that is true then it seems the move to cheap ebooks is less of a case of a publisher trying to release new content in a cost effective manner taking advantage of modem technology than it is a ruse for someone to take advantage of existing properties in order to milk some more change out of their customers.

If it were the former, one would expect to see additional content and value in the ebooks. If it were the former, one would expect to see revenue applied to the release of new product.

I suppose we will wait a year and be better able to judge what's really going on. Some say it's keeping up with the times. For someone mainstream companies and perhaps one or two magic companies that may be true. But in this case it seems to me, based on steve's angry defensiveness, L&L's history of devaluing product with reprints and forced buy rereleases as well as the manipulation of the limited edition market by releasing held back copies, and the fact only existing projects are being released - not a campaign using new technology to allow one to move new content onto the market, that this is just a money grab. I know I'm not the first to think it or even write it here but I am the one who gets his posts deleted and insulted.

But hey, let's check back in a year and see what L&L is doing. I look forward to seeing new great content of the likes it released in the past.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Bob Cunningham » June 1st, 2012, 10:38 pm

LL Publishing wrote:New ebooks are now available:

The Vernon Chronicles, Volume 2 http://bit.ly/Kyoxpb

The Vernon Chronicles, Volume 4 http://bit.ly/JTS5Q1

Bob Wagner's Master Notebook of Magic http://bit.ly/L5p8hN

(Apologies for doing the Vernon Chronicles out of order when V1 & V3 were released a couple of weeks ago)

May I suggest that you might want to make this post it's own thread so it does not get lost in the discussion.

BTW I love the e-books books and have purchased about 1/3 of the currently available titles.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Mark Tams » June 2nd, 2012, 7:42 am

Brad Henderson wrote:I asked about the new products. I was told yes-then no.

And I think we miss the point in considering this a discussion of books and not information. While a magic publisher sometimes produces volumes that have a high physical production values, much of what we trade in is more akin to a text or cookbook.

While the physical Elmsley book has value - what magicians are buying is the material.

Now, the publisher can of course screw his customer base whenever he wants / and in the profit above all approach to business, he might make a few bucks. He may also loose a few customers.

Customers were sold information which had an alleged monetary value. We are now told that value was not what we paid for it.

Has the value of elmsley's material decreased? Well, as the books are selling for higher prices on the secondary market - and there is nothing special as to their production value - we can easily argue that it hasn't decreased, but increased.

Now, part of that is due to availability. I realize some believe that doesn't play a factor in matters, but these people also admit to not knowing how to find the going rate for a book on the secondary market.

I agree that a publisher has all the right in the world to re release material that was not offered in limitation. If that affects my book's value so be it.

Of course, this is also different from a company manipulating availability by withdrawing quantities from the marketplace, but I digress.

The thing is, we aren't seeing a reprint being offered at the same or higher rate than initially sold. It's lower. Much lower. Much lower than warranted by the absence of a binding and jacket.

This leads me to ask - is this the decision of someone interested in getting valuable information on the market in a manner responsive to the technological advancements available today

Or

Is this someone who is trying to burn the lot - trying to get as much as they can without regard to their loyal customer base who were sold the same information at much higher prices. Is this the action of someone looking to build, or get out?

I don't know. But it troubles me that any query results in name calling and censorship. That doesn't speak to an organization that's interested in building.

And while some may say it's none of my business what a company does - they miss the point. It is entirely my business. I don't want to do business with someone who is in it just for the money. Believe it or not, there are people in the world who do things because they love and care about magic and want to see it grow.

Those are the people I want to support.

So, I think it is reasonable to try to understand the situation. As a consumer, it matters to me. As someone who has seen the value of once tauted 'valuable' information being sold at cut rate prices, I am concerned.

And from the pm's and emails I know I am not the only one.


100% AGREE!!!!

Here's my analogy . . .

I know personally someone that bought Marlo's Magazines "back in the day". One of the early mag's he paid $15.00 for . . . yep . . . imagine that!

So are we to say that the value of the mag's are $15.00. Of course not!!! They are much, much higher. I know, because I spent a whole lot more than that on those.

So if we're "turning digital" and we analyze this with some of the formulas used earlier, than if these were released in a digitized format, that would make them worth about $3.00.

So "value" is NOT determined by what it once was and then reduce it across the board because it is digitized now. Corporate companies across the world work incredibly hard at maintaining the value of their product. They do this with consistent pricing, not flooding the market, releasing only so many at a time, etc. The fact of the matter is, they make EFFORTS to keep the value up and maintain it.

Simply decreasing the price of the product because it is digital is not a good reason in my book to lessen the price of the product. As stated earlier . . . the CONTENT should dictate the value, not the format.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Mark Tams » June 2nd, 2012, 8:00 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:The value of physical books is related solely to the collectable market--what is someone willing to pay to have a paper version on their shelf. Me, personally I treasure the many autographed books in my magic library. They have value to ME because they have been autographed by the authors who are friends and people I respect. When they are eventually sold, they may have value to someone else. eBooks will never have this type of associated value.


AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » June 2nd, 2012, 8:06 am

Brad Henderson wrote:But hey, let's check back in a year and see what L&L is doing. I look forward to seeing new great content of the likes it released in the past.


Ok Brad, you've forced me to tip our hand.

After the ebooks are completed we're taking a bold step and releasing all of them as audio books. We realize that not everyone has time to read 732 pages of Al Schneider Magic, so now you can listen to the books.

Some of the books, like the Schneider book will have two versions, standard and deluxe. The standard version will just be a dry read. The deluxe will include sound effects. You will hear the cards being shuffled and when the click pass is described you will hear it start out in the right hand then land in the left hand. This will be very effective if you're wearing headphones as the sound will almost be three-dimensional. Kind of like the first time you heard Dark Side of the Moon with your headphones on.

Max Maven will be reading 666 pages of the Annemann Book. The book really has 636, but we added in another 30 just to give Max a number he'd be comfortable with. Brad, we know you will be supportive of this one with Max on board.

Perhaps Damian would be interested in reading the Elmsley books. We want to create authenticity, as if Alex Elmsley was reading it to you. When I try a British accent it comes out like Stewie Griffin. "Oh Brian, that's no way to execute a Ghost Count".

(I know he wouldn't be interested, but I just needed an opportunity to show him I can spell his name correctly and to show I've stopped confusing him with Damien, the spawn of the devil from The Omen.)

After the audio books are completed we're planning on broadening our demographic. For too many years the kiddies at Ellusionist and Theory11 have ignored us. They complain that they can't learn magic from books, so we're going to have all our books printed on custom, collectible decks of cards. There will be demo videos for each book/deck. Instead of the beautiful women who are usually in our audiences we're going for a gritty street-vibe and our decks will be demo'd for homeless people in front of brick walls with graffiti.

Now you know.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » June 2nd, 2012, 9:33 am

Actually, I imagine audio books would be a superb way to learn if they were read well.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » June 2nd, 2012, 9:38 am

Eugene Burger said he would tape record himself reading instructions to an effect he was learning so he didn't have to flip through pages while trying to hold a deck of cards.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Bob Cunningham » June 2nd, 2012, 11:14 am

I'm not so sure. I love audio books for fiction, history, biography and science written for the general public. But for technical books I often have to read paragraphs multiple times in order to understand what they are saying.

This does not lend itself to the audio book format. However, I would love to listen to some well produced audio versions magic history and philosophy books.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Doug Thornton » June 2nd, 2012, 12:23 pm

The problem with recording the Elmsley books is that you wouldn't be able to hear the 3rd page of every 4.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby El Harvey Oswald » June 2nd, 2012, 12:52 pm

That's just not how things are priced outside magicians' fantasy word. Price in a competitive market tends toward marginal cost, which here is almost zero. Of course there are major competitive gaps here - though when you consider piracy, which L & L did no doubt in setting prices, $20 is a defensible estimate of a market price.

All of that said, there's a strong contrary view articulated principally by Brad that, as custodians of this and other classic works, L & L's calculus should consider factors beyond the elementary concept of marginal cost, including the "inherent value" of the underlying material. Unfortunately, there's almost no ethos of thinking that way in the United States. By contrast, France has deeply developed doctrines whereby art isn't strictly subject to market forces. Consider that the next time you reflexively proclaim this the greatest country, or thing of any kind, ever created.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 2nd, 2012, 1:04 pm

Unfortunately, as businessmen in the United States, we work under market forces that are beyond our control.

I'd be very happy to move to France if someone will pay for all of it. Waking up to fresh croissants every day is a particular dream of mine.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Kevin Connolly » June 2nd, 2012, 1:13 pm

I think I'll pass on being a Socialist. :)
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 2nd, 2012, 2:25 pm

LL Publishing wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:But hey, let's check back in a year and see what L&L is doing. I look forward to seeing new great content of the likes it released in the past.


Ok Brad, you've forced me to tip our hand.

After the ebooks are completed we're taking a bold step and releasing all of them as audio books. We realize that not everyone has time to read 732 pages of Al Schneider Magic, so now you can listen to the books.


Some of the books, like the Schneider book will have two versions, standard and deluxe. The standard version will just be a dry read. The deluxe will include sound effects. You will hear the cards being shuffled and when the click pass is described you will hear it start out in the right hand then land in the left hand. This will be very effective if you're wearing headphones as the sound will almost be three-dimensional. Kind of like the first time you heard Dark Side of the Moon with your headphones on.

Max Maven will be reading 666 pages of the Annemann Book. The book really has 636, but we added in another 30 just to give Max a number he'd be comfortable with. Brad, we know you will be supportive of this one with Max on board.

Perhaps Damian would be interested in reading the Elmsley books. We want to create authenticity, as if Alex Elmsley was reading it to you. When I try a British accent it comes out like Stewie Griffin. "Oh Brian, that's no way to execute a Ghost Count".

(I know he wouldn't be interested, but I just needed an opportunity to show him I can spell his name correctly and to show I've stopped confusing him with Damien, the spawn of the devil from The Omen.)

After the audio books are completed we're planning on broadening our demographic. For too many years the kiddies at Ellusionist and Theory11 have ignored us. They complain that they can't learn magic from books, so we're going to have all our books
printed on custom, collectible decks of cards. There will be demo videos for each book/deck. Instead of the beautiful women who are usually in our audiences we're going for a gritty street-vibe and our decks will be demo'd for homeless people in front of brick walls with graffiti.

Now you know.


Thank you, Steve, for your thoughtful and professional reply. As the voice of L$L it is good to know that you are looking out for your long term customers who have spent thousands of dollars on your products. Such a customer centric attitude affects my decision, along with seeing how you are working tirelessly to continually release quality new content e(books) from the best magic minds in the world. I truly look forward to your ebooks being a major force, pushing the envelope, in the next step in the history if magic literature. Your tireless efforts to update and add value to the content I purchased long ago is astounding. In a day when many would choose to make the smallest investment of time and money possible, you have no idea how it feels to this long term customer to see the depth of your efforts. And that you still have time to come to the board and maintain such a collegial relationship with all - speechless may be the most accurate word for me.

As I said, I look forward to watching L$L over the next few months. I am excited to see how this embracing of new technology will allow you to grow your output; finding and bringing to market quality new content based (e)books for the rest of us to enjoy.

i'm sure you will more than exceed the expectations I have of you

Sincerely,

A. Customer

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LL Publishing
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » June 2nd, 2012, 2:45 pm

You have to lighten up a bit Brad. Find your sense of humor and learn not to stress out about things that are out of your control.
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L&L ePublishing - www.llepub.com

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 2nd, 2012, 2:59 pm

Brad doesn't know hot to lighten up. I wish he did.
Brad: you've more than adequately made your point here.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 2nd, 2012, 3:38 pm

I'm sorry. Just responding to Steve in the manner in which he chooses to address his customers. I thought that was reasonable. Lots of things are out of my control - government spending, an unfair pay for play political system, a health care industry focused on profitable treatments rather than productive cures, the grossly overblown popularity of the hunger games movie, and people saying one thing while doing actions that belie there stated positions. You're right. We're all better off just rolling over and taking it.

Looking forward to seeing what the next year brings. We'll meet up for a year in review then!

Back to lunch now.

B-dawg

(see my sense of whimsy on display).

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Tom Gilbert » June 2nd, 2012, 4:21 pm

Doug, that was funny.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 2nd, 2012, 6:11 pm

Yeah, it was funny.
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