L&L Publishing eBooks

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JustCards
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby JustCards » May 28th, 2012, 1:58 pm

A question for the L & L staff:

RK mentioned that he purchased the Classic Magic of Larry Jennings, and reported that it was simple scan of the pages (and searchable).

I understand that scanning would be needed for older, pre-desktop releases.

Regarding more recent books. Is it safe to assume that the PDF releases for these books are being prepared by printing the Quark or Indesign files to PDF? This process, of course, would result in a much better reproduction of the original book than a scan.

Thanks for your response.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 28th, 2012, 2:11 pm

All books that are being printed now involve sending your files to the printer as pdfs, so turning them into an ebook would indeed yield a far better reproduction.

Unfortunately, with the exception of a few of my recent books, none were created electronically.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby JustCards » May 28th, 2012, 2:23 pm

Thanks for your response, Richard.

I guess different industries adopted desktop publishing at different rates.

I was in school book design and production when Quark hit big. Textbooks publishers seemed to be the last onboard. In fact, at first they sent their ms. to outside typehouses to be formatted in Quark. It took a long time before their in-house production teams started cranking out pages in Quark.

(Amazingly, these same publishers made the switch from Quark to InDesign almost overnight.)

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Ted M » May 28th, 2012, 2:39 pm

mrgoat wrote:Imagine a Dani DaOrtiz ebook that has extra video clips, audio clips, commentary by the man himself, and his friends on the content. It would be more desirable (apart from to collectors) to get the enhanced digital version.

Sadly, we appear to be at the stage where people are just scanning PDFs to make a quick buck. But they will realise they need to offer added value soon (this is publishing as a whole, not just magic).


The media companies have a milk-the-cow model: Buy the album now. Then buy it again later with bonus tracks. Then buy it again fancily remastered with some new bonus tracks.

We've seen this in the magic world with VHS, DVD, DVD sets with bonus discs.

Do you really expect the ebook versions with fancy features to be published first, especially when customers are just happy to have the basic electronic format available at all?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 28th, 2012, 2:45 pm

JustCards wrote:A question for the L & L staff:

RK mentioned that he purchased the Classic Magic of Larry Jennings, and reported that it was simple scan of the pages (and searchable).

I understand that scanning would be needed for older, pre-desktop releases.

Regarding more recent books. Is it safe to assume that the PDF releases for these books are being prepared by printing the Quark or Indesign files to PDF? This process, of course, would result in a much better reproduction of the original book than a scan.

Thanks for your response.


We're in a similar situation as RK mentioned. Most of our books are scanned. There's about five or six that are not scans.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby JustCards » May 28th, 2012, 2:51 pm

Thanks for the reply, L & L.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 28th, 2012, 3:31 pm

Ted M wrote:
We've seen this in the magic world with VHS, DVD, DVD sets with bonus discs.

Do you really expect the ebook versions with fancy features to be published first, especially when customers are just happy to have the basic electronic format available at all?


Using the Vernon Revelations DVD set as an example, the Vernon lecture DVDs, audio CDs and two booklets weren't ours. So when the DVDs were released, there wasn't a plan to wait a few years and then release the other material we had been sitting on. We didn't even have any of it.

This was mentioned in an earlier post a few days ago, but expanding the ebook in any magic publisher's existing library could be difficult to impossible in many cases. If the author is gone and there's no more material (such as notes, effects left out, extra photos, etc), then what do you do? Hiring another magician to recreate some of the material and include it on bonus video is one option.

Moving forward however, there's a chance to set a new standard. When you buy a movie on DVD you expect bonus footage to be included. They're producing the bonus footage at the same time they're producing the movie. They're not coming back to it after the fact.

The more exciting thing to think about is what will happen with magic ebooks in the future, when the whole book is planned out specifically to be epublished. We haven't seen the full potential of this yet in our industry.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 28th, 2012, 4:37 pm

I would think l and l would be in a tremendous position to offer enhanced ebooks. Just consider the Elmsley books. They also did the Elmsley DVDs. Seems a shame that content is not embedded into the ebook.

I can understand that the publishing industry is moving to ebooks. However, I feel a difference between embracing new technology which allows one to continue to grow and develop projects that might otherwise no longer be cost effective, and a 'burn the lot' - 'here's a cheap way to make some dough' approach to business.

Steve, is L and L anticipating the release of new content in the immediate or long term
future (other than yet another Richard osterlind DVD) or is your focus now solely on generating additional revenue from products already in the marketplace?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » May 28th, 2012, 5:15 pm

Ted M wrote:The media companies have a milk-the-cow model: Buy the album now. Then buy it again later with bonus tracks. Then buy it again fancily remastered with some new bonus tracks.



And that is why they are screwed. They tried to sell the same content to the same people and those people got pissed off. Witness the backlash to L&L re-rereleasing the Vernon set. Again.

Ted M wrote:Do you really expect the ebook versions with fancy features to be published first, especially when customers are just happy to have the basic electronic format available at all?


Yes.

Let me break it down for you.

Lazy Publisher A scans a book and releases it. It cost them nothing, they charge as they would if it were a book. The public think 'meh', they are just trying to rinse sucker magicians are have jumped on the ebook bandwagon with no thought, aside profit.

Cutting Edge Publisher B releases a book. He designs it from the ground up to be a proper ebook. He gets video shot. Audio. He interviews the magicians pals, he does commentary. He adds a magic trick built into the book. He basically pushes the envelope. He makes a lot of money and makes fans for life that will buy anything he puts out sight unseen.

Think of it like Apple or MS.

Everyone has MS, no one really likes it, certainly no one is passionate about it. They sell software for cheap boxes that works.

Apple on the other hand, has bred an army of very passionate people who would certainly buy any product sight unseen. It is priced at a VERY heavy margin. It makes Apple very rich. Apple love shipping great products that make people happy. The fans LOVE paying (possibly) over the odds for a product because it just works that little bit better, looks better, and, well, just works.

Not many Apples.

Loads of Microsofts.

Who has the largest marcap?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 28th, 2012, 5:39 pm

Brad,

There are new projects coming up that are not Osterlind DVDs.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 28th, 2012, 5:46 pm

mrgoat wrote:And that is why they are screwed. They tried to sell the same content to the same people and those people got pissed off. Witness the backlash to L&L re-rereleasing the Vernon set. Again.


The backlash was limited to The Genii Forum and this is one of our best selling DVD sets. Even on this Forum, there wasn't any backlash once people started receiving their DVDs.

(As I recall in one post, someone made up a price and then argued that it was too high!)
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 28th, 2012, 8:10 pm

Steve. Are these new content book/ebook projects?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » May 29th, 2012, 3:30 am

LL Publishing wrote:The backlash was limited to The Genii Forum


I think one area we cold possibly agree on, Stove, is that every other forum is full of idiots and teenagers.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Jim Sisti » May 29th, 2012, 12:03 pm

mrgoat wrote:I think one area we cold possibly agree on, Stove, is that every other forum is full of idiots and teenagers.


Why do you keep referring to Steve as "Stove"? You've done this several times now in this thread.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 29th, 2012, 12:04 pm

I just sent him a terse email asking him the same thing. It's juvenile.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby J-Mac » May 29th, 2012, 12:42 pm

So much angst over ebooks! And I agree that the Caf has a lot of idiots and teenagers, but a lot of the posts in threads like this one dont exactly reflect well on some of the members here either.

Ebooks are destroying the "secondary market"? The secondary market consists mainly of two groups: those who cannot purchase a new bound book because of price or they're out of print, and collectors. Regarding collectors, those assets are still pretty safe as their will be collectors seeking collectible books for a long time to come IMO. Also, face it: collecting purely for the investment value is, well, like any investment - subject to the risks of the market. Hey, comic books are way up! Baseball cards are way down! And in ten years that could be reversed. Amazing that folks feel that certain new business models should be avoided simply because they may affect the value of their investments! So unrealistic...

Me? I still prefer good old-fashioned hardbound books. I like holding them, turning the pages, putting then back in the bookcase. I just like "real" books! However I own quite a few ebooks too. Some because it was the only format available for me to get those particular books. Some because they were the only versions I could afford! (Like when the only OOP used copies are selling for several hundred dollars). And in many cases I own both the hardbound and electronic editions of the same books. Why? Being stuck at home most of the time I spend a lot of time on the computer, and when I want to look up a reference it is a joy to simply open the ebook and search it rather than go to my little library and pull the hard copy... especially if I am not certain where the reference might be - which chapter and in which book! I can search my entire ebook library at once instead and never leave the chair at my computer!

I purchased Al Schneider Magic as a pre-order last year; now I will also purchase the ebook version at L&L. Not right away since the ebooks released so far are a little higher than many I have seen, but then again they are very recently published magic "best sellers", so a higher price is to be expected. Still my budget is limited, but I will be purchasing many of the new ebooks there. And while I dont know I would guess that there are more than a few like me who will own both formats of many of their magic books. Just the convenience of having a number of books available for reference on mobile devices makes the additional purchase worthwhile IMO.

So thank you Steve and LLPub for making these books available in electronic format!

Jim

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Joe Pecore » May 29th, 2012, 12:43 pm

Jim Sisti wrote:Why do you keep referring to Steve as "Stove"? You've done this several times now in this thread.

Most likely because Steve has referred to Damian as Damien.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 29th, 2012, 12:51 pm

Joe = detective.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Kevin Connolly » May 29th, 2012, 12:53 pm

Good one Joe. :)
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 29th, 2012, 1:48 pm

Joe Pecore wrote:
Jim Sisti wrote:Why do you keep referring to Steve as "Stove"? You've done this several times now in this thread.

Most likely because Steve has referred to Damian as Damien.



Thanks for the heads up on the spelling error.

Brad Henderson wrote:Steve. Are these new content book/ebook projects?


Brad,

I don't know what Louis has planned. I typically hear about new products just a few days before you do. If I was working in Tahoe, I would know more, but I'm in St. Louis so and only hear about new items right before they ship me the info for the website.

For the download site we've talked about different products we could include that L&L hasn't released yet, but right now the focus is just getting the ebooks completed and loaded into the site and then we will look at the next step.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Ted M » May 29th, 2012, 5:09 pm

A thought for the big publishers:

Looking up effects and sleights at Denis Behr's superb indexing website often points me to books and makes me wish I owned them.

Example: index entries for Gilbreath Principle:

http://archive.denisbehr.de/show.php?cat=515

Just as review copies create demand, sending a complimentary copy to Denis could potentially yield similar fruit.

(Maybe the publishers already do this; I don't know.)

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 31st, 2012, 7:58 pm

LL Publishing wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:Steve. Are these new content book/ebook projects?


Brad,

I don't know what Louis has planned.

For the download site we've talked about different products we could include that L&L hasn't released yet, but right now the focus is just getting the ebooks completed and
loaded into the site and then we will look at the next step.

LL Publishing wrote:Brad,

There are new projects coming up that are not Osterlind DVDs.



it was one and now the other? I'm confused

As I stated, I can understand the need to publish in an e format if that allows new projects which otherwise may not be cost effective to be released to enter that market. This is different from a 'burn the lot' money grab where a company destroys the secondary market for it's books as it floods the market with cheap, easy access to what was at one time costly information, all without concern for those who supported them throughout their early years.

I'm trying to figure out which path L & L is taking.

You're saying - right now, there are no plans for the release of new content 'books' in either print or electronic formats, yes?

Just trying to make sense of the situation.

Brad

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 31st, 2012, 8:10 pm

Brad, this entire attitude which you espouse in the following paragraph betrays not only a bias on your part, but also the uneducated rambling of someone who is NOT IN THE PUBLISHING BUSINESS.

"This is different from a 'burn the lot' money grab where a company destroys the secondary market for it's books as it floods the market with cheap, easy access to what was at one time costly information, all without concern for those who supported them throughout their early years."

This is just [censored] plain and simple. ALL publishers are moving toward placing their products, both old and new, onto digital platforms. It is not a "cash grab"--it's adapting to the new demands of the marketplace and continuing to provide a viable product.

If you feel so high and mightly that you never condescend to put your one book on the market in digital format, good for you. In the meantime, please write about what you know, and that doens't include the intricacies of running a publishing business in quickly-changing environment.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 31st, 2012, 8:55 pm

Forgive me. I am not an expert. Merely a customer. Someone who has spent and continues to spend thousands of dollars every year on books. I realize being merely a customer means I am loathesome and worthy of contemptuous replies and insults from lofty publishers and their representatives. I am sorry if my questions displease those whom I am meant to serve.
Perhaps you can please educate me:

How DO you call it when someone drastically slashes the price of content sold to long time loyal customers? Does it matter that this is not a case of embracing the new world in order to release projects that might otherwise not be cost effective?

I mean, I'm sitting on the last box of my books. I suppose if I started selling them for a song none of my previous customers would have any reason to question that practice.

I know, I'm scum. I'm a customer. But I think, as a customer - if you still care what they think - seeing someone offer everything at fire sale prices with no promise of quality future releases makes me feel like it's a money grab

But clearly _I_ don't know anything

I am (wait, make that was) a customer.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 31st, 2012, 9:05 pm

Btw. If I were a publisher. I would sell the ebook at the same price the printed texts sold for. That way, the customers who supported you don't get screwed, the perceived value of the information is maintained, and there will be less impact on the secondary market as the binding becomes a plus.

But that would mean caring more about the loyal customer who subsidized the projects you are now selling at a fraction of the price once advertised.

But hey, what do I know. I'm JU5T a customer.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 31st, 2012, 9:41 pm

No one wants to pay the same price for an ebook as they do for a printed book, which is why virtually all ebooks sell for much less than their printed counterparts. And authors typically embrace the transition to ebooks because their royalties jump to 50%!

Brad, you sound like the guy who spent a lot of money on rare vinyl LPs just before those same LPs came out on CD for a fraction of the price. I could continue the analogy for many products that have transitioned to digital, but it would make the same point.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 31st, 2012, 9:55 pm

No. The analogy would be the guy who paid $45 for a book to see the same content being sold at a fraction of the price by the same person he bought it from, the same person who thought the value of the content was worth $45. Has the value of elmsley's tricks decreased?

Seems to me that if the book were selling for $85 (which it often does) people would be thrilled to pay $45 to have access to that content.

But that would require us to believe that the primary and secondary markets are somehow related, and that is apparently the magic publishing equivalent of global
warming.

Sure, I could see a new book released simultaneously in print and electronically having two different price points. But that's not the case. They aren't reprinting elmsely and
releasing an e version, are they?

No, they are releasing an e version. A version which can only be had from them. So if you want it - they can have you pay whatever they want.

Like the new Vernon material - if you wanted it, you had to rebuy revelations. We did.

They would with Elmsley too.

Or they could buy the printed book itself on the secondary market - at $85-125.

Seems a win-win to me.

(and the same theory played out very nicely when I reprinted the dance in paperback and sold it at the same price point as the original hard cover released.).

I suppose we can't fault someone for trying to wring all the money they can out of projects long out of print, just seems a shame that it's being done at the expense of those who were the one's who subsidized the projects in the first place, by paying full retail price for the information.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 31st, 2012, 11:01 pm

Brad, you are living in some sort of fairy-land that completely ignores the technological advances taking place and the accompanying drop in what people are willing to pay when there is no tangible physical product purchased, just electronic data.

And instead of continuing what has devolved into an inane conversation where you refuse to address what we are saying, and simply repeat the same thing over and over again in defiance of any logic, I will now bow out of the conversation because I have a monthly magazine to publish in both printed and digital forms, a family to spend time with, a book to write, and a convention to prepare for.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 31st, 2012, 11:30 pm

You are ignoring the devilsh details.

The information is out of print. It is not being reprinted in hard copy form. It is not available in any primary retail market. That information has value. In point of fact, people regularly pay greater sums to access that information now.

You say they won't pay $45 for that information, yet they are already willing to pay $85 IF they are lucky enough to find a copy available.

$45 is therefor a good price for that information. Where else can they currently get that information at that price in ANY form --- NO WHERE

So, yes. I believe a company could rerelease older, desirable, unavailable magic texts in ebook format at a price point comparable to the original retail
price. You want a hard bound version? Great! Start searhing and maybe someday you will pay $85 for it. You want the information now? Great - send us a very fair price (one we know is fair as it was market proven) and you can have it.

I am confident many magicians would take advantage of that offer.

As many as who might buy it for $15? Maybe not.

But in my fantasyland, looking out for the people who I sold to initially and maintaining value of the information the author entrusted to me are more important than making as much as I can doing as little as possible to do it.

But then again, I'm not an expert publisher. I'm just the customer.

Gotta run, too. Have two performances tonight (5 more over the next two days).

I figured if your schedule is relevant, mine would be too. Shall I get the ruler, or did you bring your own?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Roger M. » June 1st, 2012, 12:16 am

Brad's points are excellent (and I have a history of disagreeing with him, so this ain't lip service).

They're not only excellent questions, but they remain completely and entirely unanswered by anything other than insults and lip service.

Although I'm not remotely qualified in the publishing field, I am expert in customer service (which I undertake in the entertainment field many times each day).
.............and the understanding of what customer service means, and how it's extended hovers just below amateur hour in this thread.

Customer service fails miserably when those who are expected to offer it utterly fail to listen, and confuse their obligation to serve their customer with a personal desire to function as a teacher and "educate" the customer such that they will see the error of their ways........and go away.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Steven Keyl » June 1st, 2012, 12:21 am

Brad, you seem to be operating under the idea that once you purchase a book from a publisher they maintain some indefinite responsibility to ensure that the value of YOUR book stays the same or increases. That's not a reasonable position as a customer, in publishing or any other goods or services industry.

You paid for a book which they provided. They are under no obligation, either legal or ethical, to give you any further consideration.

In fact, if their new business model spurs additional revenue for them then they will continue to come up with new products. In which case, magicians who read books will win--whether they be physical or virtual books. The only losers will be the ones that fail to adapt to the new paradigm--but isn't that always the way?
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » June 1st, 2012, 3:42 am

So Brad, you think an ebook should be the same price as the original hard copy?

I'm a tad confused as to what you want here?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Matthew Field » June 1st, 2012, 3:55 am

Brad -- what happens to your argument when applied to hardbacks and paperback reprints? I'm thinking of, for exmple, the Buckley trilogy, Card Magic of Le Paul and many others.

Are you suggesting that paperback reprints should be priced the same as the hardbound originals? For non-magic as well as magic books??

What about collections of magazines (book versions of Pallbearers or Apocalypse)? Should these be priced the same as the individual issues cost?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 1st, 2012, 4:07 am

I asked about the new products. I was told yes-then no.

And I think we miss the point in considering this a discussion of books and not information. While a magic publisher sometimes produces volumes that have a high physical production values, much of what we trade in is more akin to a text or cookbook.

While the physical Elmsley book has value - what magicians are buying is the material.

Now, the publisher can of course screw his customer base whenever he wants / and in the profit above all approach to business, he might make a few bucks. He may also loose a few customers.

Customers were sold information which had an alleged monetary value. We are now told that value was not what we paid for it.

Has the value of elmsley's material decreased? Well, as the books are selling for higher prices on the secondary market - and there is nothing special as to their production value - we can easily argue that it hasn't decreased, but increased.

Now, part of that is due to availability. I realize some believe that doesn't play a factor in matters, but these people also admit to not knowing how to find the going rate for a book on the secondary market.

I agree that a publisher has all the right in the world to re release material that was not offered in limitation. If that affects my book's value so be it.

Of course, this is also different from a company manipulating availability by withdrawing quantities from the marketplace, but I digress.

The thing is, we aren't seeing a reprint being offered at the same or higher rate than initially sold. It's lower. Much lower. Much lower than warranted by the absence of a binding and jacket.

This leads me to ask - is this the decision of someone interested in getting valuable information on the market in a manner responsive to the technological advancements available today

Or

Is this someone who is trying to burn the lot - trying to get as much as they can without regard to their loyal customer base who were sold the same information at much higher prices. Is this the action of someone looking to build, or get out?

I don't know. But it troubles me that any query results in name calling and censorship. That doesn't speak to an organization that's interested in building.

And while some may say it's none of my business what a company does - they miss the point. It is entirely my business. I don't want to do business with someone who is in it just for the money. Believe it or not, there are people in the world who do things because they love and care about magic and want to see it grow.

Those are the people I want to support.

So, I think it is reasonable to try to understand the situation. As a consumer, it matters to me. As someone who has seen the value of once tauted 'valuable' information being sold at cut rate prices, I am concerned.

And from the pm's and emails I know I am not the only one.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 1st, 2012, 4:11 am

If what we value is the information, then it would make sense that any price difference should be approximately the difference between the hard costs. Having said that, one element inherent to magic 'value' is scarcity. I would prefer to do business with people who attempt to preserve the value of the products I buy, and one way is to price reprints at the same price but with less production, or at a higher price.

This is different from new book releases or mass market releases. I am referring to the dynamics of the magic world - as odd as it can be

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » June 1st, 2012, 4:45 am

Brad Henderson wrote:I Having said that, one element inherent to magic 'value' is scarcity.


No such thing as scarcity in a digital age.

The times they are a-changin'...

I imagine a download of Kind Of Blue doesn't have the same value as an original LP. Does that mean collectors of vinyl have lots of bits of plastic that aren't as valuable as they were? Probably. If they moan about that will it alter anything? No.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » June 1st, 2012, 6:55 am

Brad Henderson wrote:
LL Publishing wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:Steve. Are these new content book/ebook projects?


Brad,

I don't know what Louis has planned.

For the download site we've talked about different products we could include that L&L hasn't released yet, but right now the focus is just getting the ebooks completed and
loaded into the site and then we will look at the next step.

LL Publishing wrote:Brad,

There are new projects coming up that are not Osterlind DVDs.



it was one and now the other? I'm confused

As I stated, I can understand the need to publish in an e format if that allows new projects which otherwise may not be cost effective to be released to enter that market. This is different from a 'burn the lot' money grab where a company destroys the secondary market for it's books as it floods the market with cheap, easy access to what was at one time costly information, all without concern for those who supported them throughout their early years.

I'm trying to figure out which path L & L is taking.

You're saying - right now, there are no plans for the release of new content 'books' in either print or electronic formats, yes?

Just trying to make sense of the situation.

Brad




Brad,

Regarding new books, whether they are printed or digital, I don't know what Louis has planned. Typically I don't hear about any new products until a few days before everyone else does.
L&L Publishing - www.llpub.com

L&L ePublishing - www.llepub.com

Follow us on Twitter @LLPublishing


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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 1st, 2012, 7:01 am

I think it's a different dynamic with instructional materials. While one is buying a document, and there are costs associated with that document, as the document which conveys that content changes over time, hard costs will vary - the instructional content is not changing. That value of the content remains the same - and the availability of access to that information (scarcity) is an issue in our field

One is not buying merely paper or a file format, they are buying information.

And while I realize that many in the world feel all information should be free, I'm yet to be convinced that this attitude is good for magic (having very little to do with the notion of 'protecting secrets' from laypeople).

If One bought a routine from someone for $100 and If the seller turned around and start selling it for $20 just because they obtained cheaper paper, I think most would be pissed.

How is this different? Did elemey's body of work become worth less sometime in the past month?

I believe, in magic, people would pay former retail prices for ebooks of material no longer available. Steinmeyer's berglas book. I would bet many would pay it's original list price for legal access to an ebook. They are now willing to pay 6 times the original price. While some do want a pristine book, many in our field just want the information.

That's different than many of the examples posed n

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Steven Keyl » June 1st, 2012, 8:00 am

"If One bought a routine from someone for $100 and If the seller turned around and start selling it for $20 just because they obtained cheaper paper, I think most would be pissed. " -Brad Henderson

Pissed? No. Upset at the unfortunate timing? Maybe.

This happens in the tech industry with such regularity no one raises an eyebrow. Several years ago I bought a Kindle DX for $600 when they were new. The new Kindles hold more data, are lighter and have touch screens and 100 other advantages over my Kindle and it costs less than $100. Did my Kindle drop in value when that version came out? You bet it did. Is Amazon "acting without regard to its loyal customer base?" Most would argue no.

Publishing and technology are different industries but the underlying principles regarding progress and innovation are the same. Publishers in this day and age are under siege and are doing whatever is necessary just to stay in business.

If you interpret this desperation as their blatant disregard for their customer then of course you are well within your rights to say so and to refuse to patronize them. But as this business model becomes more commonplace you will likely find that you have increasingly fewer alternatives.
Steven Keyl - Magic Book Report

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » June 1st, 2012, 8:16 am

Apparently my iPhone 3 is worth next to nothing now. I paid 600 quid for it.

Oh the humanity!


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