L&L Publishing eBooks

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AJM
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby AJM » May 25th, 2012, 9:58 pm

So how will this development affect the value of my deluxe editions of these books?

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Roger M.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Roger M. » May 25th, 2012, 10:18 pm

Cut the price they would have gone for yesterday in half, if not half again.......in other words, reduced their value by 60%+.

Frankly, I'm amazed at the silence in this thread from folks who, collectively, have put hundreds of thousands of dollars in L&L's coffers, and who are now witnessing the cash value of their books drop through the floor.

It's irrelevant whether you intend on selling them or not........cash value is cash value regardless of what you intend to do with them.

BTW, the Elmsley books are already up on the torrent sites (that didn't take long), so the cash value of your books is now $0.

There are always book-lovers who will pay you "a" value based on the books being limited editions, but that value will no longer reflect the relative rarity of the rare Elmsley Volume (1 or 2, I forget which).

Of course L&L will disagree with everything I've just posted, and simply tell you that you're a whiner.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 25th, 2012, 10:26 pm

Roger M. wrote:
BTW, the Elmsley books are already up on the torrent sites (that didn't take long), so the cash value of your books is now $0.


Roger,

The Elmsley books that are on the Torrent sites are not the ones we just release a few hours ago. They have been up there for several years - that's right, years. So using your logic, the value of your books diminished years ago, not today.

Previously posted, by us and RK, almost every book we sell and many of RK's books as well are already on torrent sites and have been for a long time.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Kevin Connolly » May 25th, 2012, 10:46 pm

Either way, Torrent or from L&L, it tanks the price on the collector and all print versions.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 25th, 2012, 10:54 pm

Well Kevin, as previously mentioned, your price tanked a long time ago.

Of course that means every book has now tanked. Take Erdnase. The material is worthless now. The early editions of the book are probably good for doorstops. It's been reprinted so many times and available for for free as a download for probably the last decade.

It's obvious some of you don't like ebooks. No one is forcing you to like them. As RK posted earlier in this thread, for any publisher to survive, this is the direction they have to take.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 25th, 2012, 11:01 pm

We've just added:

Ultra Cervon
http://goo.gl/5BrXZ

L.I.N.T.
http://goo.gl/SmQEG
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 25th, 2012, 11:11 pm

.

My new widget costs 2,000. When the store lowers the price to 1000, that lowers the value i can get for my widget in the secondary market - obviously

Sure, people break into houses and steal widgets too. Some might have you believe that lowered the value of your widget already but that's just silly

Now, One can deny that the first sale and secondary markets dont correlate, but it's hard to swallow that line when those offering the first sale are referencing the high secondary market value in their ads for the cut rate product.

Now unlike widgets, one inherent factor in magical information value is scarcity and exclusivity. That has been conveniently ignored.


While we are told book people will always want books,we see arguments made that ignore the value of INFORMATION. Some just want the information and will pay for it in any form. If only available in a book - they want the book and the books value goes up. If available in a cheaper source, the book becomes worthless to them and therefor looses value on the secondary market.

And let's just forget the man hours many spent in tracking down rare information/titles/books.

All that value - down the tubes.

ButCareful boys, mr L&L gets snippy when you contradict their propaganda and counter act with obvious truths. You might even be told you can no longer comment on a thread. Thankfully for me, this is a different thread so I can hope my post will not be deleted

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 25th, 2012, 11:25 pm

Brad,

Roger stated the value dropped to $0 because it was on a torrent site. I just informed him that using his logic, it dropped to $0 years ago because it's been out there for a long time. It's not propaganda - just an obvious truth.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 25th, 2012, 11:38 pm

Then he is mistaken. The value drops when the same material becomes readily, widely, and legally available at a fraction of it's original market or secondary market value - as it is now.

Jc Wagner book was selling for a couple hundred last
Month. Let's see what happens, shall we?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 25th, 2012, 11:49 pm

Brad,

I'd be curious to know where it was selling. This question was asked early on in the Ammar Cups & Balls Book thread and no one answered.

Unfortunately The Cafe doesn't keep their posts in the Buy/Sell/Trade area beyond a couple of weeks. Past ebay auctions are searchable, going back about 3 months.
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Smurf
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Smurf » May 25th, 2012, 11:53 pm

Like Brad, I think the access of material on illegal torrent sites stops some (especially the young and cash-poor types) from buying the legal material, but most of the collector's buying books for a hundred dollars (or hundreds of dollars) go nowhere near torrent sites.

However, if the legal publisher of the material makes it digitally available for 1/10 the price of a physical copy, that certainly could sway many buyers to forego the hunt for and purchase of the original book/manuscript.

I have first editions of The Collected Works of Alex Elmsley and I certainly did cringe when the $19.99 ebooks were announced. (And it's Vol. 2 which is the rarer one....someone aked about that earlier.)

Well, that's the way things go sometimes.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Brad Henderson » May 26th, 2012, 12:04 am

I would rather be told 'screw off, we're here to make a buck and we don't care what happens to the value of the collections our loyal customers have built over the years" than presented with these bogus rationalizations and defenses that anyone who has collected for more than a day knows to be utterly ridiculous.

Btw someone who knew anything about the magic book secondary market would not need to ask the going value ot most titles let alone how one finds out. Yet they are willing to tell us how that market operates. There's at least one word for this, and I'm sure it would get me silenced on this thread too.

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Kevin Connolly
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Kevin Connolly » May 26th, 2012, 12:05 am

Steve...Maybe tanked wasn't really strong enough. By L&L publishing all of these "Collector Gems" at one tenth the price in digital format, I should have said L&L screwed the hard copy and the so-called "Collector Editions" buyers.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 26th, 2012, 12:09 am

Brad,

The reason I asked is that it's easy to make a statement that a book just sold for hundreds of dollars. I can come back in 3 months and say the book just increased in value. If I did that, you would ask for proof. So I guess we can talk about it in 3 months when you tell me it's decreased and I tell you it's increased and neither one of us wants to provide a link or source.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Ted M » May 26th, 2012, 1:06 am

Collectibles are always precarious, and a publisher is not obliged to prop up the secondary market by limiting the supply of published items except when explicitly promised. The only limited aspect of the collectors' editions are the fancy bindings and similar external trappings, not the content of the pages. L&L is in bounds publishing more copies, whether standard or electronic.

However it would be wise for a publisher to recognize that the secondary market supports the health of the primary market. These books are not cheap, and at least some fraction of the customer base may depend on the secondary market (some as a simple security blanket, others as an investment) for recovering value when needed/desired, which enables the initial book purchase.

L&L has now cut away that support from which it has benefited. What will be the fallout?

Consider: If customers knew Al Schneider Magic would be released a mere year later as a PDF for half the price, to what degree would that have impacted sales of the physical book?

Going forward, will L&L still be able to publish any new titles as physical books, or will the loss of the secondary market reduce primary sales to a point where physically publishing a new book becomes financially unviable?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 26th, 2012, 1:39 am

Ted,

I don't disagree with any of your points. You've raised questions that we too have asked ourselves and continue to. We don't have the answers and that's part of the risk of starting this product line.

We can't speak for all the other magic publishers, but most probably knew this day would come. It was mentioned elsewhere that we've been discussing this for almost 2 years. We didn't just jump into it.

In the mainstream publishing world, many authors are moving away from publishing houses and just self-publishing ebooks. We've seen a lot of that in our industry and maybe we're going to start seeing more of it.

There's more freedom now. Someone who wants to publish a book doesn't have to hope L&L, RK or Hermetic will publish it for him. So for all of us maybe it's the end of publishing new books. Or maybe the author wants to see the physical book get the same distribution as other books have and they do come to us. Maybe the author comes to us (or other large magic publisher) to release an ebook because we all have a built-in distribution system with our mailing lists and can reach tens of thousands of people instantly.

We've never done a digital only release. Maybe that's the new future. We don't know.

We're sorry that not everyone is pleased with our decision to release ebooks and on a personal note I'm sorry that I've gotten carried away in these discussions. It's a hot topic with strong opinions on both sides.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 26th, 2012, 2:27 am

I am about to publish a book on Theodore DeLand. I have little hope of not losing money since the book(s) must be in color, and so I will do it via print on demand. I will make virtually no money, but at least after a decade of work I won't lose money.

This is what publishing magic books has come to ... a truly inglorious end.

I know what must be done to continue my business, as do L&L and Hermetic Press. The physical book will survive but in a very limited way. My business model will be slightly different than L&L's, but the fact is that there are many people who prefer to pay much less for the books and get them in electronic form.

ebooks can go out of print, too, you know. Will their prices go up then as they are sold from one person to another?
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby sjrwheeler » May 26th, 2012, 5:58 am

Richard, do you think its ok for a person to sell their ebook to another person?
wouldn't they just keep their own and sell a copy on?

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Mark Tams » May 26th, 2012, 7:21 am

Roger M. wrote:Frankly, I'm amazed at the silence in this thread from folks who, collectively, have put hundreds of thousands of dollars in L&L's coffers, and who are now witnessing the cash value of their books drop through the.


I stepped up to the plate early in this thread and voiced my displeasure. In case there's any ambiguity, let me say it again ... I don't like it!!!

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 26th, 2012, 8:47 am

Mark Tams wrote:I stepped up to the plate early in this thread and voiced my displeasure. In case there's any ambiguity, let me say it again ... I don't like it!!!


Mark,

I understand and not too long ago felt exactly the same way you did. While I love tech stuff and have had a computer online since 1984, I'm a book guy. I used to work at one of the largest independent bookstores in the country here in St. Louis as a bookseller and manager. It was one of my favorite jobs and the job that got me into being a web guy in the mid-90's.

A while back in another thread about ebooks vs paper books, several people posted that ebooks would ultimately dominate and that it's already happening with ebooks outselling paper books at Amazon. I could never see making the jump to an ereader. But I also said that about going from vinyl to CDs. I had a huge record collection, so why switch? Then from CD's to downloadable digital audio. But now I can't remember the last time I purchased a CD and buy everything on iTunes. For the past year neither my wife or I have purchased a book and have bought everything on our Nooks.

I don't think books will go away completely, just as vinyl never went away completely. Over the past few years it's made a comeback with young people. Our kids, who are in their 20's and their friends love records. They have old turntables picked up at second hand stores and support the local record stores here in town. Some of their favorite artists are releasing both vinyl & digital. They love the fact they have a choice.

This whole shift to consuming digital media is a tough change for some and again, I understand how you're feeling.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby erdnasephile » May 26th, 2012, 9:08 am

I would just add to the discussion that the "Complete Cups and Balls" has been available as an ebook since the site was announced, but that did not keep the remaning collector's edition of that book from selling out (at $150) in less than 24 hours. (As I pointed out in the other thread, I think these products target different audiences.)

A better test would be to see what happens when a non-collector's physical and ebook are released at the same time.

Based on Amazon's experience, I suspect that the numbers might not be as lopsided as we think (at least not yet): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/techn ... .html?_r=1

IMHO, the key (as in most cases) is pricing. People complain all the time that Kindle ebooks cost too much in comparison with the hard copies. If they cost close to the same, I still think that many are going to choose the physical product. (A magic example would be the recently released, Card Magic USA, where the paperback edition sold out quickly).

Perhaps a business model where a new hardcover is released first, then the ebook a year later, might be perceived as more "fair". I doubt that will mute all the criticism, but it could be argued that that procedure would be akin to the hardcover/paperback schedule of the non-magic publishers.

That said, in the short term, I think the effect of magic ebooks is to essentially rule out all but the most demanded hard copy reprints, which is sad to lovers of pulp.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 26th, 2012, 9:34 am

erdnasephile wrote:IMHO, the key (as in most cases) is pricing. People complain all the time that Kindle ebooks cost too much in comparison with the hard copies. If they cost close to the same, I still think that many are going to choose the physical product.


This is price fixing that the publisher's are doing. It's not Amazon. Amazon, Apple & B&N shouldn't be the ones who are leading the ebook revolution. It should be the publishers. They don't want to let go of a business model that is dying. They're losing control because authors don't need them anymore.

If you want to read an interesting ebook (it's only 99 cents) from a couple authors experience with publishers, self-publishing and ebooks, check out Be The Monkey at Amazon: http://goo.gl/uWgjv

If you want to watch an interesting interview with Guy Kawasaki & Leo Laporte talk about ebooks & the publishing industry, then check this out: http://goo.gl/306cs

The discussion about ebooks starts at about 40:30
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Carl Seiger
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Carl Seiger » May 26th, 2012, 10:17 am

Just a thought and a question.

Question first. Can I print out an eBook?

The thought : It seems to me there are two types of book buyers.

People that buy books (limited editions and/or first editions) for their collections, to read (or to just look at them on their shelves) and/or to sell later for a profit.

And people that buy books for the information they contain.

For the people that buy for content, it seems that eBooks could be a good choice (particularly if you can print the whole book or just the parts you want to read ).

For the collectors that bought hard cover books; if they are no longer available in hard cover, wouldnt that increase the value? If I wanted a book in hard cover that was no longer available from dealers (only available as an eBook), it seems that the only source would be the secondary market. And since they are no longer available, I might have to pay more than what the owner of that book originally paid.

Just a thought.

Carl

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 26th, 2012, 11:32 am

Carl Seiger wrote:Question first. Can I print out an eBook?


For the collectors that bought hard cover books; if they are no longer available in hard cover, wouldnt that increase the value?


Carl,

Our ebooks you can print. We didn't put any limitations on them. Other ebooks you may not be able to do that.

The value of any collectible is determined by different factors including the economy and the rarity of an item. A first edition of Erdnase is rarer than a collectible book being published today. No one was buying Erdnase 100 years ago thinking they need to hold on to it because it maybe collectible.

So a book published 15 years ago isn't rare. It may be hard to find, having to go to ebay or buy/sell sections of magic forums, but within a few months you'll be able to find one.

But what do you want the book for? That's where the issue becomes a hotter topic. If you want it for collecting, then you have to buy the book and a lot of collectors will pay the premium price for it.

However if you want it for the information, you now have an option (in some cases) to buy an ebook instead. So that may take money out of the pocket of someone who owns the book and was hoping to make a few dollars on the resell of it. But again it may not. Is the person looking for the information willing to pay the premium price? Probably not in many cases. Years ago, before the web, more than likely they would.

The secondary market, defined as what we see on ebay and magic forums, is driving the down the value. Watch what items sell for and you'll see how low people are willing to discount their product before they can sell it. Buyers will wait because they know the seller will eventually lower their price, or someone will come in and sell it for even less.
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Mike P
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Mike P » May 26th, 2012, 1:28 pm

Any ideas on what is coming down the pike soon?

I would buy the Cervon Notebooks in a second in ebook form.

I like the e-book versions. I was a little shocked that they were being published or more at some of the titles. But I like to read them in the Kindle and my other e-reader. Very conveinient if you just need the information on the go. Lighter too.
Mike

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby LL Publishing » May 26th, 2012, 1:51 pm

Mike,

It was mentioned at the very top of this thread that we will not be releasing the Castle Notebooks as an ebook.

We've been releasing 3 - 5 ebooks a week. Not sure what titles are coming up next.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Carl Seiger » May 26th, 2012, 1:53 pm

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply.

I'm not "siding" either way.

I'm not up to speed on all the new electronic book reading devises. I am probably one of the "old fashion" people that just likes books, although I do own a few PDF "books". I have them because I couldn't get the information any other way.

I can certainly see their convenience, but a lot of the time I will print out the section I am most interested in at that time. I just like to be able to sit and read it without having to sit at my computer. I suppose I will someday have to break down and get some kind of reader :).

I was just thinking that maybe someday, (a few years down the road?), I might want a certain book (in hardcover book form), and that the only way I could get one would be to buy from someone willing to sell it to me. Maybe I would get lucky and that person would sell it at the cost it was purchased for. Then again, how bad do I want it and would I need to consider paying more for it.

Maybe I should just go get a "reader" and get with the times :).

Best to you and thanks for all the quality material L&L makes available.

Carl

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Mark Tams » May 27th, 2012, 8:07 am

erdnasephile wrote:Perhaps a business model where a new hardcover is released first, then the ebook a year later, might be perceived as more "fair". I doubt that will mute all the criticism, but it could be argued that that procedure would be akin to the hardcover/paperback schedule of the non-magic publishers.


This may be a great compromise to the situation. I do agree that "times are a changing" and I do get the fact that many do want to read from a reader. I get that. But there are many of us that want to hold a tangible piece in front of us and read.

Many pieces of literature are literally pieces of art. Whether it be production, layout, content or combinations of them. To be able to hold this art that the creator and author spent countless years creating is a beauty to behold. It's kind of hard to get that feeling from a Kindle.

I think I can wrap my mind around a book being published and a later date set for the release of the PDF. However, I would make it much longer than a year. That would create more of a market for hardback (or softbound) as well as keep the perceived value of the actual book up. For instance, to see Al's book available already . . . ugh!

That would also allow us to continue to build our libraries. Trust me, when the fellows come over, they ask if they can go to the library, they don't ask me if they can borrow my e-reader.

So this business model could be a good compromise. Perfect? . . . I don't think this can be achieved as there is too much subjectivity to all of this. But a compromise that I could at least see myself accepting.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » May 27th, 2012, 8:46 am

Mark Tams wrote:there are many of us that want to hold a tangible piece in front of us and read...

...But a compromise that I could at least see myself accepting.


Thing is, it doesn't matter what you think. Or what I think. It's going to happen. I'm sure people that made buggies thought they were works of art, and replacing them with an AUTOMOBILE was ridiculous. Didn't matter. It happened anyway.

Publishers will either realise they need to adapt their businesses, or they will fail. Just like the bricks and mortar shops.

Adapt, or, sadly, die.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 27th, 2012, 9:42 am

While Ive little doubt that the eBook will eventually dominate the marketplace (and thank goodness Ill be dead by then), there will still likely be real books out there, just as there are companies that still make buggies and carriages (and at reasonable prices).

Dustin

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Joe Mckay » May 28th, 2012, 1:14 am

I am 30. And I worry about living in a world where real books are rare. And with no newspapers as well. And no magazines...

Shame - but it will probably happen. Still - alot of bookshops will soon have these machines which can bound and print any book in the world there and then. You can see one here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXG4YsZWmP8

Anyway - I just hope we can reach a happy compromise. For instance - I am convinced the testure and smell and shape of a book (and the paper and ink) changes the way you remember the book. I might sound like a snob. But I am convinced it will be proven soon that reading a book on an iPad and the same one in your hand is a much bigger deal than people think.

I can recall alot of books, magazines etc I have read. But I can't remember anything I have read on a computer screen. It just doesn't register in the long term memory...

Lastly - these debates involving capitalism and buggies and carts remind me of one of my favourite scenes from a movie. It is 12 mins long - but it is a very eloquent take on this sort of debate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7rvupKipmY&feature=related

Joe

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby erdnasephile » May 28th, 2012, 9:45 am

Thanks for posting that clip, Joe.

Without getting into the politics of the thing, I enjoyed watching the two acting greats (Peck and DeVito) chew the scenery. (Although every time I see DaVito, I can't help but think: "There's Louie De Palma!" :)

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 28th, 2012, 10:11 am

50 million iPads sold.

According to the Daily Telegraph in the UK, "A total of 1.33 million e-readers were sold over Christmas" this year. "One in 40 get a Kindle for Christmas. The Kindle was one of the most popular Christmas presents in the UK as one in 40 adults were given an e-reader over the festive season, new figures show."

Like Damian said: the truth is that it doesn't matter what you think, or want, or what any of us think or want. The ship is sailing, so as a publisher either you get on the boat or jump off, drown, and die. End of story.
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Kevin Connolly
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Kevin Connolly » May 28th, 2012, 11:39 am

At least one magic tradition will survive and probably rise to a new level, the copy/knock-off.

Passing these files and DVDS around makes so much easier soon. So there is another upside.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 28th, 2012, 12:08 pm

Kevin, your comment reflects the fact that you think that copying digital files and posting them on the internet or sending them around is something new.

IT IS NOT NEW. This has been going on for years. The only question is whether the people who own the properties are going to sell them themselves, or just let everyone take advantage of the free digital copies that are already all over the net.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » May 28th, 2012, 12:36 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Kevin, your comment reflects the fact that you think that copying digital files and posting them on the internet or sending them around is something new.

IT IS NOT NEW. This has been going on for years. The only question is whether the people who own the properties are going to sell them themselves, or just let everyone take advantage of the free digital copies that are already all over the net.



Indeed. I remember when they used to print lecture notes (and probably some books) in such a way that was designed to make it hard to photocopy!

In fact, fact fans, then the printing press came out it was viewed as a piracy machine.

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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Steve Bryant » May 28th, 2012, 12:46 pm

I love books and will always consider them a first choice. However, the iPad has completely turned me around on my feelings toward ebooks. There is a warm and fuzzy feeling about having some of the best of my library with me at hand at all times, including complete files of The Jinx, The Bat, and the New Phoenix, plus books like Close-up Card Magic, the Seabrooke book, the Jonathan Pendragon book from Todd Karr, Tom Stone's ebooks, and numerous others. I look forward to being able to purchase other favorites such as the Eugene Burger books from Richard. It's all good.

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Kevin Connolly
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Kevin Connolly » May 28th, 2012, 1:05 pm

Richard,

No, I know it's not new. I just like the idea that more people can knock-off the originals easier. I can only imagine all those tired feet at the Xerox machine. Now you can send/copy brand new material and share with everyone at the club. That was my thought on it.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 28th, 2012, 1:14 pm

Old news.
Old news.
Old news.
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Re: L&L Publishing eBooks

Postby mrgoat » May 28th, 2012, 1:15 pm

Kevin Connolly wrote:Richard,

No, I know it's not new. I just like the idea that more people can knock-off the originals easier. I can only imagine all those tired feet at the Xerox machine. Now you can send/copy brand new material and share with everyone at the club. That was my thought on it.


More people can also legally buy the content they want and get it instantly. See the huge rise in (legal) digital music and movie downloads. See the video stores out of business.

Yes, of course, some people chose to steal content. They always will and we can't stop them.

However, there are a lot of people, fortunately, prepared to pay for content. And the amount of people prepared to pay for it digitally is growning in amazing ways.

As soon as people get on board the idea that they need to make digital products that are better than analogue ones, the better. Of course, it costs time and money to make them better. But they will make more money.

Imagine a Dani DaOrtiz ebook that has extra video clips, audio clips, commentary by the man himself, and his friends on the content. It would be more desirable (apart from to collectors) to get the enhanced digital version.

Sadly, we appear to be at the stage where people are just scanning PDFs to make a quick buck. But they will realise they need to offer added value soon (this is publishing as a whole, not just magic).

Imagine if the money currently spent on paper, printing, storage, distribution, pulping, delivery etc etc was spent on enhancing text with additional content...

Then we'd reach an interesting stage.

As stated before, Michael Close was way ahead of his time. Possibly too far ahead.


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