Hank Lee

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
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Bob Cunningham
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Bob Cunningham » April 3rd, 2012, 5:31 pm

I have a winky emoticon to say - lighten up, chill, let's be friends ;-)

Prosecutors and judges recognize that motives make a difference to the crime charged and the sentences that are imposed for those crimes. Whether the difference between murder and manslaughter or a regular crime vs. hate crime, or breaking and entering dome to enrich yourself or to save the life of a 3rd party - all these actions are treated differently based on the motive of the person committing the action.

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Bob Cunningham
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Bob Cunningham » April 3rd, 2012, 5:38 pm

BTW, the scenario I described with the ransom is not fictional. This essential situation has happened at least a half a dozen times in the past few years with home invasion bank robberies.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Andrew Charles » April 3rd, 2012, 6:11 pm

Bob Cunningham wrote:I have a winky emoticon to say - lighten up, chill, let's be friends ;-)

Prosecutors and judges recognize that motives make a difference to the crime charged and the sentences that are imposed for those crimes. Whether the difference between murder and manslaughter or a regular crime vs. hate crime, or breaking and entering dome to enrich yourself or to save the life of a 3rd party - all these actions are treated differently based on the motive of the person committing the action.


You're very confused. Motive can be a mitigating factor in homicides and in determining if something is a hate crime but it's not something that is generally considered in a property crime like stealing $500,000. Because there is no justification for it. Just like there isn't justification for running an automotive chop-shop, or placing a bomb in a movie theater, or stealing someone's x-box, or setting fire to your neighbor's shed. Most crimes, big and small, motivation doesn't matter.

You're confusing it with establishing intent. That's sometimes important. Did he intentionally set fire to his neighbors shed or was he burning leaves and one flew into the other guy's yard? But there's not confusion about the intent here. This wasn't an accounting error. It was a years long embezzling scheme.

(And for what it's worth saving someone's life could never be considered "breaking and entering" unless you stole something while you were doing it.)

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Bob Cunningham
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Bob Cunningham » April 3rd, 2012, 6:16 pm

I think we have both shared our thoughts here and I am happy to agree to disagree (insert the peaceful/friendly symbol of your choice)

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Tom Dobrowolski » April 3rd, 2012, 10:57 pm

the Larry wrote:I personally think ordering from Hank Lee would be unfair to all decent magic dealers. Why should he get the business over all the other dealers? I can't come up with any halfway good reason to justify that, unless you are related to Hank or are such a close friend that his criminal actions have little bearing on your friendship with him.


Excellent point. Bears repeating and hopefully won't get lost in this "discussion".

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Oddly Bent » April 4th, 2012, 10:04 am

The final thread at the Cafe has been deleted (there was several going on all over the Cafe). One poster ended up calling RG an idiot, how he came to this conclusion I cannot imagine if you have someone else taking care of your finances.
If Pay Pal has been shut down, credit cards is sure to follow. And that would be the end unless people send checks or m.o. to buy stuff. Maybe Lee will look for a buyer but I doubt there is much good will left in the business. Glad I never bought from him.

Phil Pearce
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Phil Pearce » April 4th, 2012, 10:14 am

Andrew Charles wrote:
Bob Cunningham wrote:I have a winky emoticon to say - lighten up, chill, let's be friends ;-)

Prosecutors and judges recognize that motives make a difference to the crime charged and the sentences that are imposed for those crimes. Whether the difference between murder and manslaughter or a regular crime vs. hate crime, or breaking and entering dome to enrich yourself or to save the life of a 3rd party - all these actions are treated differently based on the motive of the person committing the action.


You're very confused. Motive can be a mitigating factor in homicides and in determining if something is a hate crime but it's not something that is generally considered in a property crime like stealing $500,000. Because there is no justification for it. Just like there isn't justification for running an automotive chop-shop, or placing a bomb in a movie theater, or stealing someone's x-box, or setting fire to your neighbor's shed. Most crimes, big and small, motivation doesn't matter.

You're confusing it with establishing intent. That's sometimes important. Did he intentionally set fire to his neighbors shed or was he burning leaves and one flew into the other guy's yard? But there's not confusion about the intent here. This wasn't an accounting error. It was a years long embezzling scheme.

(And for what it's worth saving someone's life could never be considered "breaking and entering" unless you stole something while you were doing it.)


Excellent post.


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Roald Dahl

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Jim Riser » April 4th, 2012, 11:47 am


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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Ian Kendall » April 4th, 2012, 1:40 pm

And here's a linkable click.

What gun? Oh, this gun.

El Harvey Oswald
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby El Harvey Oswald » April 4th, 2012, 2:16 pm

good point; i do have a bit of a history with hank and am inclined to support him. but for those who don't, it is reasonable to regard it as unfair to honest dealers

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby the Larry » April 4th, 2012, 3:51 pm

I am not sure what Mr. Riser's point is. I think everybody knows that other criminals have stolen much more than half a million. Does that make Hank Lee's theft any better? I don't think so. At least for the magic industry I would say Hank Lee holds the not particularly flattering record of the 'biggest thief'. I should add that he also holds the record for 'biggest idiot' in magic - for me at least.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby El Harvey Oswald » April 4th, 2012, 4:48 pm

Just to fill out the discussion of "motivation," "intent," and other similar concepts: With very few exceptions, criminal liability requires an actual intent to commit some crime -- a "criminal mind," or mens rea. The exact nature of the the intent will be the basis for distinguishing among crimes, most prominently murder and manslaughter. In the absence of a mens rea, there is typically no criminal liability. (The exceptions are "strict liability" crimes, the most prominent of which is statutory rape, for which criminal liability attaches even if you genuinely believed the girl (usually) was over 18 (or whatever the minimum statutory age is)).

Civil liability sometimes entails a mens rea-like requirement; for instance, the "scienter" requirement in securities cases.

The doctrines around intent become complex and, in some instances, elegant and intellectually interesting. One example: Although it can't be said that a drunk driver "intends" to commit murder, when the conduct is particularly egregious -- very drunk, driving ridiculously fast -- an intent to kill can be "imputed," resulting in a murder charge, rather than manslaughter, which is essentially killing in the course of doing something reckless but without meaning to.

As for Hank Lee, the existence of a criminal mens rea isn't even a close call. The exact composition of that mens rea -- roughly what has been called "motivation" in this thread; essentially the why he did it -- is widely debatable and, as such, introduces considerable variation around factors that determine the crime he's charged with, sentencing, etc.

The specific nature of one's intent also often figures in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion. Not everything that satisfies the elements of a crime is prosecuted, sometimes because the crime is deemed to be justified (though perhaps not amenable to a formal justification defense).

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Tim Ellis
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Tim Ellis » April 4th, 2012, 6:22 pm

Just a positive shout out for good business dealings in this industry... I just purchased from Collector's Workshop and the item has a postage charge of $35. It was sent, and I was refunded $3.75 because the postage came to slightly less than the estimate.

Isn't it interesting that we should praise a level of ethics and honesty that used to be standard. :)

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby J-Mac » April 5th, 2012, 12:24 am

El Harvey,

I dont quite understand what point you are trying to tie back in to the Hank Lee case. Are you questioning his intent? Are you trying to tie the "justified" part to Hank Lee?

Not arguing any of your comments; I just dont get the relevance for the most part.

Thank you.

Jim

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Devious
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Devious » April 5th, 2012, 1:21 am

This is the flyer that was circulating at the AMA Awards Ceremony and at The Magic Castle during the after party.
I even saw them on the counter at the nearby convenience store.
Image

Many jokes about the issue were used by the presenters.
It was the running gag of the evening.

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mrgoat
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby mrgoat » April 5th, 2012, 3:42 am

VERY funny!

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 5th, 2012, 5:47 am

Devious wrote:Many jokes about the issue were used by the presenters.
It was the running gag of the evening.

That's a bit overstated. A few jokes by Mac King and one by another person does not make for a "running gag" through the show.

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Devious
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Devious » April 5th, 2012, 7:38 am

It was a running gag throughout the evening, means in the lobby and at the castle in discussions I was involved in. Details, details....

A dear friend of Hank's I see?

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erdnasephile
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby erdnasephile » April 5th, 2012, 7:44 am

Thanks for the clarification--when I first heard "running gag" I had assumed it was used as a call back throughout the official AMA show, which surprised me.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 5th, 2012, 8:27 am

Devious, I doubt that Dustin even knows Hank Lee, so please don't make silly remarks that like.
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Devious
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Devious » April 5th, 2012, 8:57 am

I'll tell you what, please delete my posts.

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Kevin Connolly
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Kevin Connolly » April 5th, 2012, 10:20 am

Don't delete them, they are funny.
Please visit my website.
http://houdinihimself.com/
I buy,sell + trade Houdini, Hardeen items.

El Harvey Oswald
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby El Harvey Oswald » April 5th, 2012, 2:09 pm

No subtext, no tacit message; that's just a quick summary of how "intent" figures in criminal law, and how it is the same and different from the similar concept of "motivation."

There might be some mitigation in the Hank Lee case that's a function of intent and motivation; then again there might not be. That one prefers more money to less money is a motivation, but not one that typically causes a sentence to be reduced.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby El Harvey Oswald » April 5th, 2012, 2:22 pm

Mac King's returning to the Hank Lee theme four separate times, in different segments, coupled with another presenter picking up on the same theme, as well flyers, solely making a Hank Lee joke, being strewn around the theatre and beyond satisfies any reasonable definition of a "running gag." It was sufficiently "running" that those who didn't get it asked what it was about, in contrast to, say, the similarly inscrutable-to-outsiders but isolated and quickly forgotten quip about Joe Monti and Criss Angel. Likewise, Lance Burton as an "out of work magician" was a running gag, though without having been invoked with nearly the frequency of the multiple Hank Lee references.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Leonard Hevia » April 5th, 2012, 3:57 pm

More April Specials:

1. 500 Thousand Dollar Bill Switch
2. Wild Con
3. The Big House Illusion
4. Diminishing Sentence
5. Out of This Cell Block

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 5th, 2012, 5:52 pm

Just a few facts for your consideration:

Devious wrote:A dear friend of Hank's I see?


FACT: I have never met nor done business of any kind with Hank Lee.

El Harvey Oswald wrote:Mac King's returning to the Hank Lee theme four separate times, in different segments


FACT: I was there taking copious notes for a complete report that will appear in Genii. I am not relying on memory recall.

FACT: Mac King did NOT return to the Hank Lee theme four separate times. He told three jokes in one segment right before introducing Michael Goudeau, and then did one quick callback directly after the jugglers act. This all took place within the first 45 minutes of the show.

FACT: Michael Weber did one quick callback almost one full hour later.

That was it. Not even Jason Alexander, who did a fifteen minute comedy set recapping magic in general and that evening up to that point, ever mentioned Hank Lee. No other presenter ever alluded to Hank Lee. Mac King, after the callback following Goudeau, never mentioned Hank Lee or the situation again.

So, as someone who has reviewed and reported on many entertainments, it is my opinion that the above is not, by any description, an example of a running gag during a show that lasted over two and a half hours.

Dustin

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Tim Ellis
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Tim Ellis » April 5th, 2012, 5:59 pm

"A little game from Hanky Poo, the cash for me the bill for you - all you have to do is to keep your eyes off the Amex statement - spending ten costs you twenty, twenty costs you forty ... now here we go ... "

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Elwood » April 6th, 2012, 4:49 am

As someone lying in hospital as a victim of a serious assault that required facial surgery, I would like to point out that all crime is bad, all crime leaves victims and all offenders deserve punishment. 6 teenage lads attacked me, and have been charged with GBH. Do I feel sorry for their families because they've shamed them? Do I feel upset that they will probably be barred from certain countries and professions because of their crime? Should I asked for lenience to be shown to them because of their ages? NO! CRIME IS CRIME, WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Joe Howard
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Joe Howard » April 6th, 2012, 1:04 pm

This was bound to happen.

http://hankleescrewedme.com/Hank_Lee_Sc ... /Home.html

Think someone has an ax to grind?

mehtas
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby mehtas » April 6th, 2012, 5:11 pm

Don't worry Hank.

Just learn the entire routine of Daryl's Ambitious Card OR you could look out for the first inmate who gets impressed with Ben Harris tricks and your time in jail will pass without any trouble.

Do say hello to Bernie Madoff and Allen Stanford.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby erdnasephile » April 6th, 2012, 5:39 pm

[img:center]http://195.144.20.106/files/thumbs/t_beat_dead_horse_289.jpg[/img]

mehtas
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby mehtas » April 6th, 2012, 5:46 pm

erdnasephile wrote: [img:center]http://195.144.20.106/files/thumbs/t_beat_dead_horse_289.jpg[/img]



Its only less than a week since the issue came to light.

The horse is still alive :)

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 6th, 2012, 6:47 pm

Hank Lee's latest email newsletter, which a friend sent to me:


Greetings from all of us at Hank Lee's Magic Factory. I try to be a little funny every week. This week, I don't feel funny. I feel sad. I feel embarrassed. I feel, and there is no better way to put this, stupid.

This has been quite the week. While it has been a terrible week for me, I know that it has also been a miserable week for my family, for my friends, for my employees and for you, my customers. In the special message I sent out last week, I apologized from the bottom of my heart to all. It was a totally sincere apology. I cannot say more than that.

What completely surprised me was the number of supportive and positive emails I received from so many of you. In the hundreds, and that's no kidding. Not that I deserved it, but it was a ray of sunshine on an otherwise bleak week.

I wish I had a time machine. And I wish I could turn it back. I truly wish that this had not happened. And, that is the truth. While I continue to get supportive emails from customers and friends, people on the forums are ripping me to shreds. I completely understand. My actions were so very wrong. I have no excuse. I have no rationale. But, I fully plan to atone for my actions and to accept whatever punishment is set forth. In that I am sincere.

That having been said, there is a very large crisis of confidence right now, right here. A few folks suggested that perhaps it is time for me to step down from my position at Hank Lee's Magic Factory. While the idea is painful, I believe it is the correct course of action. So, as of today, I will remove myself from the everyday activities at Hank Lee's Magic Factory. I will be out of the daily loop. I will hand those responsibilities over to my employees, who will do a very good job for you. In addition, my family is coming on board to help. Aron will be answering the phones, processing orders and getting them out the door to you. He is a great person. Bonnie will be paying the bills, handling all charges and keeping the boat afloat. She's a fine wife. I will continue to help on the magic side: writing the ads, doing the weekly email Newsletter, etc. It will be a new, and far better Hank Lee's Magic Factory.

I sincerely hope that this will help to re-build the confidence you have had in Hank Lee's for all these years. Removing myself and turning the operation over to people who are impeccably honest and above reproach is the right thing to do. I hope you agree.

One other comment that I received was that Hank Lee's should do something special for our longtime loyal customers. To say thank you for everything. So, here goes!


Thank You One And All Sales Event: This is the something special for our longtime friends and customers. Save and save. More today than tomorrow.
Heres how it works: From right now until Tuesday, April 10th, at midnight, when you purchase from us at Hank Lees, you will save money. But, as you may have heard, the early bird gets the worm! For the next 24 hours, you will save 40% on your entire order, subject to the rules below. Read it again. 40%. We are giving it away at our cost. Until Saturday morning, April 7th, at 8:00 AM.
After that, we will reduce the discount to 35% (still an amazing discount), and hold it until the end of the sale, Tuesday, April 10th at midnight.
All you need to do is enter the special code THANKYOUALL in the Discount Coupon Box of the online checkout at www.magicfact.com and we will automatically deduct the correct amount from your order total. If you are calling your order in to the Toll Free Order Line at 800 874 7400, FAXing your order to us at 781 395 2034 or emailing us your order to magicfact@aol.com make sure to mention the special code so you can save!

There are a few rules that apply, as with all things in life.
* The minimum order to use this discount is $35.00.
* The discount is deducted from the retail price of the item. No intermediate discounts (such as HankoGram pricing) may be applied. In the case of sets, such as DVDs, the discount is deducted from the retail price of each item and not from the set price.
* Offers cannot be combined.
* Certain items, due to contractual restrictions, are not included in this sale. All Viking/CW items, Kennedy Enterprises items, Mike Caveney Books, MagicSmith, theory11 products, Johnson Products items, Greater Magic Teach-In DVDs, One Of A Kind Collectors' Items and a few other items are not included in the sale.
* If you place an order for an item that is not on this list or not noted in our online catalog, but is excluded from the sale, we will let you know before processing your order.
* Coupons, Reward Points and Promotional Gift Certificates may not be used during this sales event..
* As the discount is automatically generated, you must put the special code in the Discount Coupon Box, and nowhere else. You may have to scroll to the bottom of the page to find the box, but it is there. If you are not sure how to do this, please phone your order in to our toll-free order line at 800 874 7400, and we will take care of you. We cannot offer discounts retroactively.

And that's it. It could not be easier. So, get your order together and save yourself some serious money! But, act quickly. It all ends on the 10th of April at midnight!
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Joe Howard
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Joe Howard » April 6th, 2012, 6:55 pm

I think It's still pretty fresh in most people's mind. This won't die down until Hank is sentenced. Then, if he does jail time, there will be a new round of "humor" and then it will pass. If he doesn't do any time, there will be a round of arguing both "for and agin' him" and then that too will pass.

If one is sick of reading about it, one doesn't have to.

Ted M
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Ted M » April 6th, 2012, 6:58 pm

There's also a little tiny link at the bottom of those newsletters that says "Unsubscribe".

And it works!

JHostler
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby JHostler » April 6th, 2012, 7:02 pm

I'm with Erdnasephile (I think). See Hamlet, Act III, scene II... The relentless protest here would dissuade many rational folks from dealing with many of the above posters. In any case, why punish Hank's family? I plan to take advantage of the sale.

mehtas
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby mehtas » April 6th, 2012, 7:04 pm

Ted M wrote:
There's also a little tiny link at the bottom of those newsletters that says "Unsubscribe".

And it works!



From now on one should not click on ANY links in Hanks emails.

By the looks of the newsletter above, Hanks thinks he is doing some sort of favour by offering this "deal".

What has the world come to ????

Though I understand that the family should not be punished but queuing up to support the company might not be such a great idea.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 6th, 2012, 7:43 pm

He's selling as much stock as possible to raise money to pay off RG--that's my guess.
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby The Magic Apple » April 6th, 2012, 7:52 pm

Just in case you need a new product, and was hurt by this insane HANK LEE incident:
CLICK HERE
TheMagicApple.com
818-508-9921
Follow us: @The_Magic_Apple

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Tom Dobrowolski » April 6th, 2012, 8:25 pm

And I plan to spend my money in support of the few remaining HONEST brick and mortar magic shops who do the right thing and are trying to stay afloat. Why punish their families just to save a few bucks?

We all make choices that speak volumes about who we are.


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