Hank Lee

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Roger M.
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Roger M. » April 6th, 2012, 9:51 pm

I once had a "fine wife" too, although she would most definitely have wondered out loud where the extra half a million dollars I brought home actually came from.

Really though, with the apparent number of Hank Lee complaints noted here and elsewhere, dating back in some cases years as opposed to months, could anybody associated with the Hank Lee "operation" actually not have known something seriously wrong was going on either behind the scenes, or up front?

As for "Hanks" recent string of emails and newsletters, is it just me or do none of them actually sound at all contrite or sincere?
I mean the notion of offering up A SALE in an email supposedly containing an apology for stealing half a million dollars is frankly, not only distasteful, bur seriously strange!

The concept of a self-confessed thief asking those he stole from (his customers) to please "trust" his recent decisions would be laughable if it wasn't so ridiculous and ultimately indicative of a mind not working at all properly.

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Scott Fridinger » April 7th, 2012, 12:49 am

There are some great stores out there. Discount or no discount, do you really want to give your PII and credit card to a company whose owner just admitted to stealing over .5 million dollars.

Wow, I am amazed they are still up and running. I enjoy looking at the hot list, but it is also the only B&M store that I openly heard serious complaints about.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Larry Horowitz » April 7th, 2012, 2:37 am

By the way, since he made a post here, I will mention that Brent Geris of The Magic Apple has spent tha last eight weeks in a wheel chair with a severe leg injury.

His store has remained open. He has continued to book lectures and fill orders. I have always received prompt attention and a discount as a AMA member. As far as I know he has not charged me or anyone else a half million dollars to do so.

Larry

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Tim Ellis
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Tim Ellis » April 7th, 2012, 4:00 am

I can't remember, but did Bob Markwood offer his clients a discount on his children's party rates as a way of apology when he was caught?

mehtas
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby mehtas » April 7th, 2012, 5:09 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:
He's selling as much stock as possible to raise money to pay off RG--that's my guess.




A fine idea Richard but whose pocket do you think that money should come from ???

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Steve Bryant
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Steve Bryant » April 7th, 2012, 8:40 am

Certainly not from anyone who annoys the hell out of me with an animated .gif. I thought we got past that in the 90s.

the Larry
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby the Larry » April 7th, 2012, 9:22 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:He's selling as much stock as possible to raise money to pay off RG--that's my guess.


You are kidding, right?!

So let me get this straight. Hank Lee, having already damaged magic as a whole, is now further damaging all other magic retailers by dumping his inventory at wholesale prices on the market. So that all others have a harder time selling their stock. Give me a break. If anybody, customer or supplier, still does business with him then they are multiplying the damage Hank Lee has caused.

The only decent thing to do would be to close down his shop. Sell his inventory at a dime on the dollar to other retailers or back to the distributor, and GET THE HELL OUT OF MAGIC.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 7th, 2012, 10:58 am

I didn't say that I agree or endorse his business policy--I am simply reporting what he's doing.

I'm not sending him any money.
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NYCJoePItt
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby NYCJoePItt » April 7th, 2012, 11:04 am

Oh trust me, when I got my email about that 40% sale last night from Hank Lee, I was tempted to order some magic. But considering I had to fight to get the last DVD I ordered from them about 10 years ago, and remembering I swore to never order again, I said NAH.

Joe Howard
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Joe Howard » April 7th, 2012, 11:06 am

Steve Bryant wrote:Certainly not from anyone who annoys the hell out of me with an animated .gif. I thought we got past that in the 90s.


Now THAT"'S funny !

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby M Petersen » April 7th, 2012, 11:10 am

I don't chime in very much, and we don't really compete much with Hank as a book dealer, but unloading most of your inventory at wholesale costs is EXTREMELY unfair to other dealers. Like Richard, I understand what he is trying to do, just not the best way to go about it. I would be interested to find out if other dealers experience a lull in sales during the time period of this 'sale.' If so, that sucks in an already slow year for dealers.

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Edward Pungot
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Edward Pungot » April 7th, 2012, 11:11 am

I hear that when you go to jail, there are roommates that may want to rape you or kill you or both. I think thats enough punishment for one man.

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Kevin Connolly
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Kevin Connolly » April 7th, 2012, 11:19 am

Maybe. :)
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El Harvey Oswald
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby El Harvey Oswald » April 7th, 2012, 12:31 pm

In that a "running gag" isn't defined with scientific precision, but rather is a function of one's impressions and recall, it's not quite subject to didactic proof. I found it to be a "running gag"; you didn't.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby El Harvey Oswald » April 7th, 2012, 12:32 pm

hilarious; a prison rape joke

Edward Pungot
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Edward Pungot » April 7th, 2012, 1:40 pm

In a dark, Pulp Fiction sort of way perhaps, but that was not what I was going for. But I catch your drift. Hopefully draft wont be an issue with Hank, legal or otherwise.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 7th, 2012, 2:43 pm

El Harvey Oswald wrote:In that a "running gag" isn't defined with scientific precision, but rather is a function of one's impressions and recall, it's not quite subject to didactic proof. I found it to be a "running gag"; you didn't.

Gee El Harvey, I never thought of it that way particularly since the dictionary definition of a running joke (aka running gag) says nothing about perception and appears not to be subjective at all. Therefore if I agreed with you wed both be wrong.

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AJM
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby AJM » April 7th, 2012, 8:15 pm

I think we've all reached the point where this thread cannot move on in a meaningful way until we've sorted out the definition of a running gag.

IMHO, by the description originally given by EHO, the gag did appear to be of the running variety - and this appears to have been confirmed by DS - his diligent recording of the event noting 3 separate jokes and two callbacks.

I say 'running gag' - what say you, the Genii faithful?

Andrew

(Hank, I may have bought you some time - time to make yourself scarce. No, I wouldn't bother sending another newsletter - they're not buyin' it, mate, they're not buyin' it...)
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Devious
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Devious » April 7th, 2012, 8:32 pm

I say it was a running gag no matter how DS wants to spin it.

I will repeat once again, in the lobby before, during, and after the show and at The Castle many folks
were referring to the matter. A running joke indeed it was.

Didn't you see all the flyers in the bathroom at The Saban Theatre and at The Magic Castle as well?
If that doesn't make it into the category of a gag, I don't know what qualifies?

John Signa
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby John Signa » April 7th, 2012, 9:37 pm

A running gag is where the same joke is repeatedly told, but slightly altered while keeping the same general punch line. "Gag" is singular.

Everyone telling jokes about the same subject is not a running gag.

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Devious
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Devious » April 7th, 2012, 9:40 pm

Ok, I will agree with that Mr. Signa.
Many jokes were being told about the issue.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 7th, 2012, 11:04 pm

AJM wrote:I think we've all reached the point where this thread cannot move on in a meaningful way until we've sorted out the definition of a running gag.


running joke
noun


1) A joke or humorous allusion used recurrently in a play, film, television skit, etc., for a cumulative comic effect.

2) A subject, reference, remark, etc., that is a continual source of humor.



I'm not spinning anything. I listed facts, not spin. The Hank Lee situation certainly could have become a ruuning gag, but it didn't.

The total time given to it was maybe two minutesout of a 150 minute showand the majority of that was Mac King's initial three jokes which, and this must be stressed since someone made it sound like they were told at different moments, were told all at the same time.

They were what he called "texts" that he received and were just three one-liners. His one and only callback came right after the act that came on right after the jokes.

Then, and this is absolutely key to my argument, he never brought it up again for the rest of the show (which was the better part of two hours). That he was the host and had a lot of stage time, that's saying something. (I believe he recognized that the jokes really didn't work that wella combination of light laughs, groans, and silenceand he was better off leaving it alone.)

And then only one person made a quick comment and that was it.

As noted above, a running gag has a "cumulative comedy effect." Those few jokes had absolutely no cumulative comedy effect. The Lee situation was not a running gag at the show.

The running gag of the show was in fact the "out of work magician" which had a payoff at the end the Mac's act.

No spin. Just facts.

Dustin

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Steve Bryant
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Steve Bryant » April 8th, 2012, 12:13 am

John Signa correctly defined running gag, and Devious agreed.

Dustin, why are you making this so contentious? Some of us just aren't getting it. Is there a subtext I am missing?

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 8th, 2012, 12:24 am

Q. Kumber wrote: [img:left]http://psychicgameshow.com/Hank.html[/img]

Edit: I thought that the image would apear here but not so. If you click on the link you will see something of Gary Dunn's.

No sign of HLee running on this thread. I was more expecting a mug shot picture with the rub-off stuff over the number as a prediction trick / in-joke item.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 8th, 2012, 1:57 am

Steve Bryant wrote:John Signa correctly defined running gag, and Devious agreed.

Dustin, why are you making this so contentious? Some of us just aren't getting it. Is there a subtext I am missing?

Because, Steve, I am not wrong. Also, I was accused of spinning. If anyone is spinning, its Devious. Just because they were there does not mean that the flyers were part of the show. By that logic, shoelaces on the rented tux shoes that keep coming untied were part of the show. If the flyers were in the program or on the seats, then maybe: But they werent and they were far from ubiquitous. I didnt see one until it was posted on the Internet.

As far as definitions go, I like John (hes one of my Disney Pals), but his definition (as well as some earlier ones) is not correct according to the dictionary. So that Devious agreed is immaterial.

Someone asked for a definition of running gag. The definition that I quoted is from the dictionary, not me. All I did was post it.

I dont believe that redefining a word or phrase is okay, so I am being contentious.

For reasons passing understanding there have also been several misstatements of fact.

I dont believe that misstating facts is okay, so Im being contentious.

So lets recap:

Am I the one misstating the facts? No.

Am I the one making up a definition of a phrase that appears in the dictionary so it supports my argument? No.

Do people get to make up facts? No.

Do people get to redefine words and phrases? (Ill let you answer that for yourself.)

So tell me again whose argument the dictionary definition supports based on the facts? If you can provide real (versus made up) facts and real (versus made up) definitions that prove I am wrong, then I will accept it. But just because you say something is so doesnt make it so.

Contentious Steve? Yes. When facts are misstated and definitions are improper, you bet Im going to argue the point. My arguments are supported by facts and actual dictionary definitions. Othersyourself now includedwant to me to accept something I know is provably wrong. I wont do it. Theres your subtext.

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AJM
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby AJM » April 8th, 2012, 2:50 am

Job done.

:-)
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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 8th, 2012, 4:07 am

Ughh...AJM, I need to borrow your avatar.

Change of subject:

I foresee a pool on how much time will HL spend behind bars. If so, I have dibs on none.*

I think he will get house arrest (with the ankle thing), restitution, and then parole with community service as his punishment.

*Any time served leading up to the actual sentencing and any time handed down as a result of subsequent violations of agreements with the authorities not counted: I'm talking about the initial sentence set down by the judge who hears his allocution.

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Devious
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Devious » April 8th, 2012, 4:31 am

Tsk,tsk,tsk....Dark Fascist overLoad?

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby mrgoat » April 8th, 2012, 6:18 am

Dustin Stinett wrote:When facts are misstated and definitions are improper, you bet Im going to argue the point.


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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Oddly Bent » April 8th, 2012, 11:01 am

Is this thread becoming a running gag?

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Oddly Bent » April 8th, 2012, 11:02 am

Devious wrote:Tsk,tsk,tsk....Dark Fascist overLoad?


A May Carson clone?

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Rick Ruhl » April 8th, 2012, 12:24 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:Ughh...AJM, I need to borrow your avatar.

Change of subject:

I foresee a pool on how much time will HL spend behind bars. If so, I have dibs on none.*

I think he will get house arrest (with the ankle thing), restitution, and then parole with community service as his punishment.

*Any time served leading up to the actual sentencing and any time handed down as a result of subsequent violations of agreements with the authorities not counted: I'm talking about the initial sentence set down by the judge who hears his allocution.


I think so too. It sounds like a plea bargin is in the works if I read between the lines. First time offenders of white collar crimes can usually get a plea bargin with a good lawyer.

But I will never agree it's less of a crime to do this to save one's business. To save mine, I took all the debt and put it under my name, closed the old company with no debt and declared Chapter 7 personal bankruptcy.

I was able to put my IP into my protect assets and Walla. W4PC Software emerged. All legal and with no harm to my customer base. (And yes, Silkmagic.biz is still around, that's Bob Sanders and I).

He could have also declaired Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which would have allowed him to stop paying all the bills and continue business until he emerged from it or the court ordered a chapter 7 liquidation.

It's all about Ethics in business and I can count on my fingers and toes the people I feel have ethics in this business.

Our friend the late Tabby Crabb, who died last April 20, was on the top of the list. I had never met a man with more ethics than the Tabman. Even Tabby had a good relationship with Jeff Busbee!

Ethics people ethics!

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Jim Riser » April 8th, 2012, 1:49 pm

Right or wrong? In the whole scheme of things does it matter? Would it be better to pick the important battles? Does length of time happily married in any way relate to needing to prove that "I am right"? Here on the Genii Forum you may state your case for being correct. On the Magic Cafe you will have all of your comments and "proof of correctness" deleted if your correctness reflects negatively upon an advertiser. "Being right" over there is dependant upon being an advertiser. This situation tends to change the definition of being right. Does your dictionary deal with this situation? Here or there, no one cares if you are "right". This appears to be a useless battle which serves only ego needs.

Now, as for Hank and jail/prison time ... is he a real threat to society? Should he receive punishment for his crime? Punishment yes, but is prison the best solution for society? If in prison, is there any chance of paying back any victims? If in society under limited freedom, is there a chance of paying back victims and keeping his family off of public support? It appears to me that it would be more productive for society if Hank was given limited freedoms and the opportunity to repay crimes committed. As much as some here want to blow Hank's crimes out of proportion, this is really pretty minor crime that he has done.

The magic customer is free to not buy and thus support Hank. That is Hank's problem not mine nor any one else's. If he can not regain customers, he will be forced to leave the magic business and seek other employment. This is what many seem to wish and will come to be as a natural business consequence. In fact, it may not be avoidable. I feel that prison should be reserved for those who are a real threat to society. If you want to avoid being a victim, be vigilant.
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby mehtas » April 8th, 2012, 2:23 pm

Jim Riser wrote:
Now, as for Hank and jail/prison time ... is he a real threat to society? Should he receive punishment for his crime? Punishment yes, but is prison the best solution for society ?


No he isn't a threat to the society. he just likes taking other peoples money without their consent for fun. and the people who got ripped off enjoy how the money vanished from their account without them knowing it.

You sound very much like the social service here in UK, that has nearly ruined the pillars of a good society.

There is s good chance HL might go behind bars for a very short time. if he had done the same crime few decades ago, it would have been a loooooooong one.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Joe Naud » April 8th, 2012, 3:00 pm

Stealing 500k is a minor crime compared to the Wall Street crime of Madoff I guess. If we decide to minimize a crime like this where do you draw the line? Why do we have laws for things like this "minor" offense. This discussion has now officially blown my mind. Are you kidding me??????
Joe

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Jim Riser » April 8th, 2012, 3:10 pm

I'm concerned with the cost to society to house and feed guys like this for years on end at a minimum of $40,000 per year plus supporting his family. Those tax dollars come from my hard work. Guys like Hank are a burden on society but not a threat to life and limb. It would be cheaper for society to just repay victims than to house Hank for years. THINK about it!!!

If I was the one determining the consequences to Hank for his actions, he would not happy. He would almost think he was in prison. I am no social bleeding heart. I am practical. I am certainly no liberal and I do believe in consequences for one's actions. Appropriate and practical consequences. Read that again.

OK, mehtas and Joe Naud, how do you think Hank should be punished without punishing the tax payers? Prisons are NOT free, cheap, nor productive! mehtas, we all know about your debtors' prisons, how did they work out?

It is easy to avoid being a victim of Hank. Do not do business with him and monitor your finances to avoid others like him.
Jim

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 8th, 2012, 3:16 pm

It has little to do with the severity of the crime except for the fact that it was nonviolent. It is a combination of it beingas far as we knowa first offense (in the eyes of the law) to which he pled guilty, the number of victims, his age, the cost of incarceration, overcrowding in prisons (federal and state), and other factors. A friend of my daughter works for a company that monitors ankle tracker people and its becoming a very common sentence. We just dont hear a lot about it.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Pete Biro » April 8th, 2012, 3:21 pm

aHmmm makes me think instead of prison put 'em to work on hard to do stuff that brings in income.
Stay tooned.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 8th, 2012, 3:22 pm

One last thing on the other thing: Please note that I did not resort to name calling. It's a shame when lucid argument is deemed something untoward.

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Re: Hank Lee

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 8th, 2012, 3:24 pm

Pete Biro wrote:aHmmm makes me think instead of prison put 'em to work on hard to do stuff that brings in income.

That's also called "community service." Not everyone you see working for free in state/federally funded organizations are volunteers.


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