Tuskegee Airmen

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 19th, 2012, 12:13 pm

It's only at 31% on Rotten Tomatoes, but the number of reviews counted is only 13, so the rating could change.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Brad Henderson » January 19th, 2012, 1:40 pm

Dustin, respectfully, I saw the interview when it aired and, to me, he seemed to be in no way impugning the heroism of the historical people. His entire context was about movie making, and the way Hollywood makes decisions. I believe you are ignoring that larger context which was the frame of the interview. I think your posts to Pete are overly antagonistic. Clearly more people than Pete saw the interview and came away with a meaning different from the one you did. I am one of those people.

Could Lucas have been more clear? Absolutely. But this was not a speech, this was an interview.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 19th, 2012, 2:05 pm

Brad,

Please watch it again and listen to what he says and the way he says it. I've watched it many times, not just when it aired. I believe you ignoring the fact that he is referencing history and not just film. (And I will admit that two is more than one...but not that much more.)

And if I am antagonistic to Pete--and I suppose I am--it's only because I feel he was antagonistic against me. I had to explain something I should not have had to explain and it's frustrating.

I stand behind my analysis of his words. I've transcribed those words, provided a clip of the interview, and explained why I believe what I believe (and how his words support that belief).

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 19th, 2012, 2:17 pm

I'm not going to comment on this anymore. I apologize to Pete if he felt attacked in any way. I've fully explained my side, and if that's not good enough, so be it. We're all going to have to agree to disagree on this one. And the success or failure of this movie will speak for itself.

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Pete Biro
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Pete Biro » January 19th, 2012, 5:01 pm

No apology needed. You have your opinion, I have mine.
Last edited by Pete Biro on January 19th, 2012, 7:48 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: No politics please.
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Chas Nigh
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Chas Nigh » January 19th, 2012, 5:45 pm

Go to Metacritic. Sadly, you won't find one good review of this movie.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 19th, 2012, 7:50 pm

The boss moderator was taking his daughter to dinner. Problem now fixed.
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 20th, 2012, 7:34 am

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/52815

early word from folks who like film
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

El Harvey Oswald
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby El Harvey Oswald » January 20th, 2012, 1:42 pm

What Poe (or Lucas) is "saying," beyond their literal words, will almost always be subject to debate and subjective interpretation. That Lucas was impugning the Civil War soldiers is a legitimate interpretation; so, too, is the interpretation that he wasn't. Your insistence that yours is the legitimate interpretation, based on your purportedly definitive assessment of his tone and bearing, fails to appreciate the sort of fundamental fact of life that you assail others about, with imperious statements like "Frankly, I cannot believe you dont know that." I'm quite sure Pete McCabe knows about nuance and implied messages. And he also likely knows that there is often more than one plausible message to be inferred from a statement.

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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby erdnasephile » January 20th, 2012, 1:58 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:It's only at 31% on Rotten Tomatoes, but the number of reviews counted is only 13, so the rating could change.


Ugh...still taking a beating at Rotten Tomatoes.

Still, the Rotten Tomatoes users seem to like it, so maybe there is hope after all.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 20th, 2012, 8:53 pm

Double jumbo ouch!
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/52815
Already labelled "possibly the worst film of 2012," which--no matter how bad it might be--seems a little premature given that it's January and no Resident Evil film has opened yet this year.
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Pete Biro » January 23rd, 2012, 1:57 am

I haven't been able to get to see the film yet, but two of my friends have and LOVED IT. One's father was one of the Airmen and he finally got to see what it was like for his dad.
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Scott Jenkins » January 23rd, 2012, 11:48 am

Yep. That was me. My dad was a Tuskeegee Airman, and (Dustin) after Star Wars 1,2, and 3, and Indiana Jones, I was a little worried. But Red Tails made me forgive Lucas for all of those movies. Even Howard the Duck. I loved this movie.
It had a good story -- not a great one but a good one. Could have been tightened up a bit in editing, but it was one of the best adventure films I've seen in a while. Screw the critics. Most of them want their movie on screen. Look at the audience reactions on Rotten Tomatoes -- that's where you take your cues from. 74% vs. the critics 34%. The disparity there is interesting.
You want to judge a movie? See it first.

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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Scott Jenkins » January 23rd, 2012, 12:26 pm

Also, sometimes musicians can surprise you as actors! Go figure. Even that Sinatra guy (crooner, passing fad once the bobby-soxers grow up) was fair to middlin' in front of a camera.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby erdnasephile » January 23rd, 2012, 1:06 pm

Mr. Jenkins:

Thanks for your perspective!

I was respectfully wondering if you would be able to address the question in the first post of this thread: Was Emile Clifton one of the "Redtails" and did your Dad know him?

Also, most of the criticism of the movie stems from what the critcs say are the one dimensional, poorly dilineated portrayals of the pilots on the ground.

As the son and grandson of two minority war vets, I would be interested in your take on this critique as my Dad feels that most of the war movies portraying Vietnam really did not reflect his day-to-day far more nuanced experience in that war.

Did the movie jibe with what your father told you about the time in question?

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Pete Biro
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Pete Biro » January 24th, 2012, 1:02 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/2 ... tw#s627583

You may need to click "go back to article" in upper left corner.
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Scott Jenkins
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Scott Jenkins » January 24th, 2012, 1:36 am

I don't know if my dad knew him, my dad died back in 89. With all the interest in the Airmen, my girlfriend bought me a really cool book that is loaded with pictures and also has the complete roster. Emile G. Clifton, Jr. is on the list. It would have been a great coincidence if they did know each other!

The movie was an adventure movie, like an old John Wayne film, and that's exactly what Lucas intended it to be. A lot of critics want more because they just can't sit there and enjoy themselves in a "Let's go get the bad guys!" movie.

I personally enjoyed the hell out of it, and my dad, who loved those movies would have loved it too.

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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Pete Biro » January 26th, 2012, 4:13 pm

I have just revised a section on Clifton and have decided to reprint the book I wrote about him and his magic, as well as his WWII accomplishments.
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Pete Biro » January 31st, 2012, 9:24 pm

Finally got to see Red Tails today. I loved it. I teared up a few times. One of the scenes, where the airmen wiped out the German planes on the ground, was one of the actions magician, Emile Clifton, was involved with. He was one great guy, terrific magician and a true war hero. Bless him and his fellow airmen.
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Bob Sanders
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Bob Sanders » February 3rd, 2012, 10:18 am

Being born in Alabama in 1945, I had the good fortune of knowing some of the actual people and families associated with the Tuskegee Airmen. (My dad was in the Army Air Corps during the war and that was why we were in Montgomery, Alabama at Maxwell Field. There is also a shop there that belonged to the Wright Brothers! Aviation history is loaded with misconceptions.)

One particular black family I knew associated with the real Tuskegee Airmen raised good trotter (American Standard Bred) race horses. For several years I boarded horses with them. That family also owned mechanic garages and wrecker services in Alabama. They were certainly successful members of the community. As a grammar school kid in the 1950s, I treasured the time they gave me and shared a love of horses. Frankly, racial segregation then did not exist to the level that it did after the assasination of John Kennedy. It was a very divisive event similar to that evident in the current administration. (Once I started to college, we no longer had integrated birthday parties. I had never had a segregated one before. All friends were invited and welcomed.)

It would be interesting to see those old photos again. Of course then, color was not a factor. Red Tail meant nothing! We spent hours looking at them and listening to stories.

Im sure the movie will be more programming than accurate history. But I do look forward to seeing it. After all, like magic, it is only produced for commercial entertainment. Too bad we both let people leave deliberately confused. We are all in a trick!
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Q. Kumber
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Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Postby Q. Kumber » June 8th, 2012, 1:26 pm

A review in today's Irish Independent:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comme ... 32891.html


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