Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

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Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 21st, 2011, 1:39 pm

Steve Pelligrino originally posted:

L&L Publishing will soon be releasing Dai Vernons Revelations 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set. There are some exciting extras with this new release:

Quote:
Its been 30 years since the initial release of Revelations, the monumental video set that immortalized the life and work of perhaps one of the greatest magicians who ever lived the Professor himself Dai Vernon.

In celebration, L&L Publishing will soon be releasing the Revelations 30th Anniversary Box Set which features all 17 volumes of Revelations digitally remastered on 8 DVDs. Also included are three bonus DVDs that contain extremely rare footage of Vernon lectures from the 1970s almost six hours of material that almost no one has ever seen before. Included also are two audio CDs of Vernon lectures from the 1960s and two commemorative booklets. The first is a facimile of the original Videonics Revelations catalog with comprehensive commentary on each volume by Sid Lorraine while the second contains Dr. Gene Matsuuras original notes made at Dai Vernons farewell lecture in 1976. Everything is packaged in a beautiful slipcase that is sure to make this set one of the most desirable magic keepsakes ever released..


There is a teaser video up on the site:
http://www.llpub.com/dai-vernons-revela ... n-box-set/
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 21st, 2011, 1:44 pm

Now, I'll explain: I've deleted the original thread and reposted Steve Pellegrino's opening post.

I had a long talk with Louis Falanga and while I disagree with his approach to customer psychology in the way he's marketing this item, the previous thread simply got out of hand.

Louis and I talked at length about the amount of work that went into the editing and restoration of the Vernon lecture DVDs, and I'm convinced that he and his company have made a genuine effort to produce a special product, with all the DVDs and book in a slipcase that encompasses virtually of all Vernon's surviving video footage in one grand package. While they may have not picked the best way to present it to people who already purchased the Revelations DVDs, upon reflection I don't think they should get bashed over the head for it either.

I'll allow this new thread to stay open as long as no one gets nasty. You can disagree, but keep your comments simple, straightforward, and impersonal.

I already have a set of the Revelations DVDs. I will buy the new set, and consider the price well paid for the three Vernon lecture DVDs and book. The dupe set of Revelations DVDs will go to a friend as a birthday gift.
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Tom Gilbert » December 21st, 2011, 3:12 pm

Even though I have them on DVD I'll bite for the new package.
Years ago Hans Zahn rented them and sold the VHS versions. I don't quite remember but they were about 15 to rent and 79 to buy. My numbers could be off. I asked this in the deleted thread, but does anyone know what became of Hans Zahn? I did get to meet him once and we talked about the legendary Slydini tapes that either exist or not.
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Brad Henderson » December 21st, 2011, 4:00 pm

Do we know if the revelations discs which come with the set are remastered or improved in anyway? If so, it takes the sting out a little more for people who recently bought the set at $245 only now to see it being given away for free.

Having said that, I dont think the other thread got out of hand at all. It was unfortunate that legitamate concerns were dismissed so cavalierly by those affiliated with the product. Now those legitimate concerns have been literally dismissed. What's the point in having a forum for discussion when contrary opinions are not allowed to be expressed ?

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 21st, 2011, 4:02 pm

The Slydini films most certainly do exist. Christian Fechner used a professional motion picture crew to film Slydini performing his entire repertoire in the 1970s. Not a rumor, but fact. Why Fechner never edited or did anything with the film is not known to me, and with Fechner's death, I think his family has little interest in any project in magic that costs money (such as publishing the English translation of the second set of Robert-Houdin books. It would not be inexpensive to have all the original film digitized and then edited.
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Roger M. » December 21st, 2011, 7:55 pm

I'm disappointed that an advertiser has applied pressure to get negative responses deleted, and succeeded at doing so.

It's too much like the Green Place, where this is common practice, but highly selective.
Some people get negative comments deleted, and some get the shaft.

It's a slippery slope, and leaves most forum posters with a bad feeling.

This topic was important enough for folks to post quite a few comments about, and never had anything to do with quality........only forced repurchasing and marketing.

Dozens of posts gone?..........I'm very disillusioned with the Genii forum at this point in time.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 21st, 2011, 8:27 pm

I was not pressured by anyone: in my conversation with Louis Falanga he specifically stated that he was not threatening to pull his advertising from Genii.
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Roger M. » December 21st, 2011, 8:40 pm

I would only then ask, why delete the posts of the those who contribute to your forum?

People taking the time to post are the substance of any forum.

It's much how the Magic Cafe works, deleting, editing, and variously changing or rearranging posts to meet some unknown criteria........with no concern for those who took the time to express their thoughts on the subject.

Don't bother answering.......I suspect my post(s) will be declared "whining", and that I'll be relegated to non-answers and public chastisement.

It follows though, that free thinking (and posting) in the Genii Forum really doesn't matter........if it did, 30+ posts wouldn't have been deleted.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 21st, 2011, 9:09 pm

Because the thread was way out of control. Deleting posts is part of what moderating the Forum is all about. Feel free to post your thoughts again, but without the personal invectives (this is not directed toward you, Roger M.).
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Mark Collier » December 21st, 2011, 9:19 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Feel free to post your thoughts again, but without the personal invectives .

You never see that at the Green Place.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Roger M. » December 21st, 2011, 9:49 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Feel free to post your thoughts again, but without the personal invectives


Mine was too strong a response considering Richards quote here.

BUT:....... there was plenty of good information in that thread, and judicious editing might have preserved a bunch of conversation between Genii Forum users, and L&L customers that could have been seen as containing some value worth saving.......and maybe even paying attention to.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Dustin Stinett » December 21st, 2011, 10:48 pm

Unfortunately editing in this case would have been a very time-consuming exercise.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 21st, 2011, 10:50 pm

I'm currently in New York City, and have been visiting my father in the hospital every day for almost the last week and sitting with him all day. I don't have the patience or time at the moment to have spent the hours required to whittle the original thread down to what it should have been in the first place.
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Brad Jeffers » December 21st, 2011, 11:47 pm

[quote=Richard Kaufman
I had a long talk with Louis Falanga [/quote]

And then the thread was deleted. Too bad.

I think Mr Falanga will approve of what I am about to post, so it should be safe from deletion ...

A lot has been said of the bonus video footage, but one should not overlook the value of the bonus audio material. I acquired a set of these audio recordings from Bruce Cervon many years ago. They are the first two Magic Castle lectures given by Vernon. To quote from Volume 1 ...

"The date is April 9, 1963 and a very select group was assembled at the newly formed "Magic Castle". Among them can be heard Bill Chaudet, Jan Grippo, Joe Berg, Jay Ose, Harry Mendoza, Fred Shields, Harry Coles, Harry Blackstone Sr. and Bill Larsen. Dai Vernon was where he would later hold court every night, standing in the corner of the main room (The Magic Castle had no cellar, nor second or third floor public rooms at the time). Dai performed and demonstrated his material as only he could. The incomparable "Professor" gave a landmark lecture. In order to understand the genius of this Master, you must experience him first hand. This is as close as you can get to being in an actual vintage Dai Vernon performance. Not only are his methods brilliant, he was performing regularly and his timing is excellent. Notice how the lines are delivered, what the pacing should be and how to time each move."

The second lecture was from December 6, 1964. Among those in attendance were Bill Larsen, Gerald Kosky, Jay Ose, Joe Berg, Bruce Cervon, Lou Derman, Larry Jennings, Orlando Bagley, Harry Coles, "Canada Jack" Walsh, Bill Derman, Danny Rouzer, Bill McCaffrey, Fred Shields and Leon Leon.

Although an audio recording of a magic lecture is not the best method for learning to perform the material presented, it's wonderful to listen to Vernon in his prime. I personally enjoy an audio recording every bit as much as a video.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Dustin Stinett » December 22nd, 2011, 12:03 am

Brad Jeffers wrote:I think Mr Falanga will approve of what I am about to post, so it should be safe from deletion ...

Before anyone else offers such a less than veiled snide judgment on the motivation for the deletion of the old thread, I will remind everyone that there were many positive posts about L&L and the new set that were lost in that thread as well.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Roger M. » December 22nd, 2011, 1:00 am

I sincerely hope your Dad gets well Richard, editing a thread isn't important at all when family time is required.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby r paul wilson » December 22nd, 2011, 2:02 am

I've triple dipped the Revelations video series already at this point.

I bought the original tapes, I converted some of those to DVD at my own expense and I bought the new release tapes the week they came out.

When the official DVDs came out I got those too.

This new set includes new footage I already have through friends over the years and written content I also have copies of. Despite that, I will buy this set without hesitation.

Any quality product featuring the Professor belongs in my library. To have it all collected in one package is something I'm willing to pay for.

I don't feel like I'm being squeezed, rather I'm opting to add to my collection if the product is worth the price.

For those who bought a full set of Revelations DVDs in the last year, you might now wish you'd known this was coming but, and this is just me, I don't see anything wrong with what Louis has done here.

This is not a frivolous, unsubstantial add-on. It's a much richer package than the set he released many years ago. If he released this six months after the first release of Revelations, there might be a case to argue that L&L should have made their intentions clear. This is absolutely not the case here.

I think this is a fantastic new package for a whole new generation of magicians.

In the last ten or more years, magic videos have undergone a revolution in style and content reminiscent of Homer Simpson's two "Mr Plow" commercials (first this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkWiuFXN ... ata_player then this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTY5EKN6 ... ata_player)

There are good and bad examples of old-style magic videos and new, but one thing is certain: you got a lot more content in the past. I would agree that much of that seemed like filler or padding but i would also suggest that there's a lot of inspiration to be found in lesser material if you have an idea to improve it and make it better.

I would also say that, with more content, there was a greater chance of finding hidden gems beneath the headline effects. Buried treasure is always more exciting than something anyone can have for the same price.

With regard to the Revelations DVDs, they remain, to this day, the best source of magic treasures for inspiration and advice in my opinion.

Priorities have shifted in the magic community and it is now easier to market single effects, especially if they are highly visual (to the camera, at least). The need for practice is no longer the kiss of death to a marketed effect as many of today's gifted young magicians are willing to put in the work and produce incredible effects.

Some might say that the so-called "classic school" of magic has suffered within the magic community for not being so visually apealing but I think that this will change as tastes grow and develop. The classics work just fine for those who use them well and remain miracles to the lay public when well presented.

Revelations is a gold mine of magic featuring the one man every generation of magician must look to at some point, if they really want to understand the art.

Even after buying this new set, adding up every penny I've spent on seventeen hours with The Professor, it's still a bargain and I can't wait to watch them all again.

P

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby mrgoat » December 22nd, 2011, 4:52 am

Today is noted as an official sad day.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Magic Randy » December 22nd, 2011, 9:35 am

Ordered my set.

FYI: I had the tapes then the DVD set before this.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Magic Fred » December 22nd, 2011, 9:38 am

mrgoat wrote:Today is noted as an official sad day.


Agreed. Spam and obvious thread derailing is fair game... despite what has been said, it seems quite clear why this thread has bitten the dust. Worse was said, and indeed remains, over on the Wesley James threads. One wonders would this be the case were he a friend and supporter of Genii...

As Ron Paul would say, you can't have a touch of pregnancy.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Tom Gilbert » December 22nd, 2011, 12:08 pm

As mentioned in the deleted thread, it's too bad L&L might not be able to get the 1980 lecture that was filmed in Australia.
It was pretty good.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 22nd, 2011, 2:13 pm

Hey Fred, this is not true: "...it seems quite clear why this thread has bitten the dust."

If you read my posts and accept them at face value, rather than supplying your own supposed reasons for my actions (unless you think I'm lying), you would know why the original thread was deleted.
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby mrgoat » December 23rd, 2011, 4:18 am

It does seem to me that many many threads here with far far worse personal attacks have been let to live.

Maybe when your father is better, and all the holiday nonsense is over, you could take some time to explain what needs to happen in a thread for it to be deleted? Sure, I referred to him as a crack dealer, but that was solely in the way that he has something everyone wants and will pay for, no matter if they feel they are getting shafted or not. And I apologised.

Aside from that, I can't remember many personal attacks in the thread. Just a lot of people very pissed off about being gypped.

If a major advertiser rings you up about a thread where he is being made to look bad, and his staff are posting making things worse, and that thread then vanishes, one has to think about why. This forum has never, in my memory, deleted an entire thread before. And there have been many worse personal attacks.

I don't think you are lying, but I think something went on that I don't fully understand. So, to avoid such things happening again, some kind of guidelines would be useful.

The deleted thread would have shown up on google and been worthwhile reading for people. Shame it's gone forever. And a shame that after a phone call, threads are now deleted here. I do hope it doesn't turn into the green place.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Magic Fred » December 23rd, 2011, 6:31 am

mrgoat wrote:...you could take some time to explain what needs to happen in a thread for it to be deleted?


This is precisely the can of worms that is being opened. It would then take very little, for example, for someone sympathetic towards Mr James to have *that* thread deleted.

Accusations of lying aside, the point still stands. Either you censor or you don't. There is no middle ground.

What are you so afraid of? The discussion remained on topic and relevant. When has Richard Kaufman EVER endorsed censorship over a bit of "nastiness" (if you could even call it that). See his own comments on Jerry Sadowitz, for example. So sorry, I do not believe that the thread disappeared due to poor Richard being offended by a few "nasty" words.


P.S. For what it's worth, I thought the crack dealer remark was entirely appropriate and not at all an insult or personal attack.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Bill Mullins » December 23rd, 2011, 10:23 am

A couple of thoughts:

Richard and Genii have provided, for over a decade, the best open magic forum on the internet. For free.

It is moderated, but only lightly. And I know for a fact that moderators struggle every time they decide to edit something.

This is (as the analogy has often been made) Richard's living room. Everything that happens here reflects in some small way on him and Genii. If he wants to pull something, it is entirely his right. And he puts up with a lot of crap that I wouldn't tolerate in my living room.

The fact that it happens so seldom is evidence that he is very tolerant of a great deal of stuff that is immediately yanked on other places. This is a group of adults, who sometimes say adult things, using adult language. The stuff that instigated the deletion of the thread was adolescent at best.

As far as this thread goes, RK has said that the non-inflammatory stuff could be reposted here. That being the case, repost and move on.

I know a (tiny) bit more about Richard's personal situation this week than has been announced, and have been there myself. Cut him some slack -- he really doesn't need to put up with this.

mrgoat wrote:This forum has never, in my memory, deleted an entire thread before.
You've only been on board for a few years, but it has happened. I can remember a thread where a prominent author/creator/performer was being aggressively confrontational with RK that went missing; one about Bob Kohler and the Slippery Sam gimmick; and one in which a discussion about whether/how much material was "held back" in the original Dai Vernon Revelations in which Andrew Wimhurst was also aggressively confrontational. If there was a common thread, it seems that (and I'm going from weak memory) in all cases, people were getting pretty inflammatory, RK said tone it down, and they didn't. (This doesn't count numerous threads where Mark Lewis was trolling.) I've been active on the thread since nearly the beginning, and given the depth and breadth of the discussions here, the amount of "censorship" (not the word I'd use) has been minimal.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Jim Maloney » December 23rd, 2011, 10:40 am

Magic Fred wrote:
mrgoat wrote:...you could take some time to explain what needs to happen in a thread for it to be deleted?


This is precisely the can of worms that is being opened. It would then take very little, for example, for someone sympathetic towards Mr James to have *that* thread deleted.


Well, don't forget that there is a moderator here that is quite sympathetic towards him (i.e., me).
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Jim Maloney » December 23rd, 2011, 10:45 am

Bill Mullins wrote:If there was a common thread, it seems that (and I'm going from weak memory) in all cases, people were getting pretty inflammatory, RK said tone it down, and they didn't.


I'd say that's pretty accurate. The preference is certainly to let people moderate themselves, with perhaps a warning thrown in here or there. Next step would probably be minor editing of posts (always with a note about what's changed and why, and certainly not changing content, but more likely removing, as you noted, inflammatory comments). Then we'd get the thread locking, and, as a last resort if things are too far gone, deleting the thread.

That said, every situation is different, and requires a judgement call on the specific situation. Ultimately, this is Richard's place, and his rules.
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 23rd, 2011, 10:57 am

Please pay attention to what I wrote at the top of this thread, and what Bill Mullins repeated, which is that you are free to repost your thoughts on the original topic here with no personal invective or misplaced fantasies about the motives of the company involved. Feel free to post facts, and your opinions about those facts.
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Dustin Stinett » December 23rd, 2011, 12:22 pm

mrgoat wrote:This forum has never, in my memory, deleted an entire thread before.

I have done it several times and for exactly the same reason Richard gave: It would take hours to "clean up" the thread. It's simply a lot easier to gas the whole thing. It's a case where--to paraphrase--expedience is the better part of valor.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby mrgoat » December 23rd, 2011, 12:49 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:
mrgoat wrote:This forum has never, in my memory, deleted an entire thread before.

I have done it several times and for exactly the same reason Richard gave: It would take hours to "clean up" the thread. It's simply a lot easier to gas the whole thing. It's a case where--to paraphrase--expedience is the better part of valor.

Dustin


Fair enough. I totally understand that. I understand this is RK's house and he can act has he wishes and I am grateful for him letting me play here.

I just think some clarification as to the specifics would be useful so we can avoid this happening in the future would be A Good Thing. There were a lot of good comments on the thread that won't be posted again, which is a shame.

But, with an ill father, I imagine the politics of his forum are not (and rightly so) at the top of his priority list.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Bill Mullins » December 23rd, 2011, 3:05 pm

mrgoat wrote: I just think some clarification as to the specifics would be useful so we can avoid this happening in the future would be A Good Thing.


How about, "Be Civil".

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Brad Henderson » December 23rd, 2011, 4:18 pm

While 'be civil' is a great guide, the fact remains that posts which were not civil remain while the revelations post (which did not cross the line in some people's mind - myself included) got deleted. I don't think anyone here wants to have their posts deleted (or we wouldn't be having this discussion) and it may be helpful to have some stated guidelines - otherwise we end up in an environment like the cafe where it seems like borderline posts stay or go not for any real reason other than the capriciousness of the moderator or the magi-political connections of the people involved. Having said that, I do not believe the genii moderators are the kind to want to do that but 1) all humans feel peer/economic/political pressures and 2) perception becomes reality - if it "seems" like posts are censored inconsistently, then it opens the door to accusations. Steps to prevent that could not hurt.

But that's the small picture. I think, in this case, the issue was less about the re release of th revaltions discs and more the feeling that legitimate concerns and opinions were being so cavalierly dismissed by people directly involved with l and l. People wanted to be heard.

The deletion of the other thread, in this particular case, only aggravates those feelings. While I appreciate that rk has made it clear that comments regarding those issues are still allowed, it does not remove the initial sting of seeing the posts deleted. I think that, on a personal level, is contributing to the fire.

Lastly, I think deleting the thread and beginning another with an advertisement from the one who essentially told all of us to stuff it was also problematic. It makes one feel like the advertisers are being protected. Again, I don't believe that to be the case, but once the emotional chemicals are triggerred into the system, the feelings will follow even after understanding has been achieved.

It takes a while for them to dissapate. They will. But guidelines and constancy will go a long way to keeping that from happening again.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby AJM » December 23rd, 2011, 4:54 pm

With the deletion of the previous posts the focus of the the thread is now, understandably, around the topic of censorship, free speech etc etc as opposed to the product itself.

With regard to Steve's original post, I'm more than happy to recreate my original response which was as follows:

"I'll pass"

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby mrgoat » December 24th, 2011, 3:41 am

I will also recreate my post wondering how many people will pirate it, and how many of them would have happily bought it if they didn't feel like the company was screwing them. Again.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby mrgoat » December 24th, 2011, 3:46 am

I will also recreate the very good point that if the material was sold at the advertised price without the Revelations original DVDs most of us own, everyone would have been happy.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby DrDanny » December 24th, 2011, 10:33 am

mrgoat wrote:I will also recreate the very good point that if the material was sold at the advertised price without the Revelations original DVDs most of us own, everyone would have been happy.


Agreed. When first announced, I just assumed it was a ploy. THe brouhaha here on the forum forced me to investigate further. I can't believe people are so up in arms: I have the previous DVDs, and still ordered this. Attending 5 Vernon lectures would have cost way more, even in 1970 dollars. Don't want it? Don't buy it.

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 24th, 2011, 11:03 am

Yes, that was my point. It's a simple lack of understanding of customer psychology. But now the point has been made there's no sense in treading the same road repeatedly.

I am looking forward to seeing the third of the three Vernon lectures, since it was the one I had not seen before. Owned one, saw one at Magic-Con last year, and now looking forward to the third. For those who've only seen the Revelations videos, you'll be quite surprised at the difference in Vernon's ability, and the ease with which he is able to communicate his points.

When are they going to ship this?
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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby mrgoat » December 24th, 2011, 11:03 am

DrDanny wrote:Don't want it? Don't buy it.


Absolutely. But surely we can discuss the concept that L&L are taking advantage of the fact they know there is a die (ahaha) hard Vernon fan base that will by anything, no matter how it is packaged and priced? Much like the seller of the popular cocaine based street drug crack can?

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Jim Riser » December 24th, 2011, 12:49 pm

Whoa ... I have been following this thread and the original. Why are some getting so upset about this offering? How many of you have multiple copies of "The Expert at the Card Table"? I'm not a card guy but I did add the new electronic copy to my digital library. I have multiple copies of a number of books and do not get upset about buying additional copies of the same material. No one is forcing me to do anything.

The same holds true of apparatus. An example: one of the items I regularly make is card punches. These have gone through six different models over the years. All do the job yet some folk have bought multiples of each model. Does anyone NEED more than one? NEED is not the issue. Desire is the issue. I even have more than one set of cups! Why?

On this new Vernon release, I would think having a nice set of everything with matching sizes and packaging would be nice. The older discs could become travelling copies to use in the car. This is much ado about nothing. The price is acceptable for only the new release. Buy it or not but I do not need to be informed on a forum of your decision. I do not care what you decide.

If people do not like how items are marketed, they are free to collect material or manufacture items themselves. Then they may market these items as they please - then read all of the silly complaints on various forums. Talk is cheap. Complaining is easy. Doing is difficult.

The personal attacks and suggested motives for things are not required. Buy it or not. Keep your decision to yourself. I'd much rather read reviews of the new material on this forum than read silly complaints. Anyone care to post a review?

Jim

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Re: Dai Vernon’s Revelations – 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Box Set

Postby Brad Henderson » December 24th, 2011, 1:16 pm

Jim, i dont think the punch/cup analogy is a fair one - unless we are talking identical punches and cups having substantial price drops. (and I assume the people who bought multiples of the same item with you WANTED to buy duplicates - they weren't forced to, in order to get something they really wanted.)

Taking the best spin on things A more accurate example would be: you have on the market a set of cups which is selling for $500. They are regular sellers for you, currently in stock, and being distributed by others at the price. You come up with another item - perhaps a book on the cups and balls, or anything really. It sells for $200 plus you throw in a set of your $500 cups for free.

I don't know you that well, Jim, but I just don't think you would do that. Not for economic reasons, but because it wouldn't seem right to the people who had invested in your items previously.

A book with a hard binding should cost a different amount than a paper back. Again, not a good comparison.

As David ben pointed out, and your post echoes, the acquisition of tools/information requires an investment. People spends thousands of dollars and hours tracking this material down. Buying a set of dvr's for $250 is an investment. Sure, not the same - in the big picture - as tracking down source material, but for the guy who wrote that check, it's his way of investing in his magic.

No one likes to over pay. This new package, because of poor marketing choices, leaves those who bought the dvds at 250 with no other possible feeling than that they over paid. And that type of feeling is reasonable to express, don't you think? We do that all the time on here - why should this situation be treated any differently?

When all is said and done, Jim, the new material is a great value. No one can argue
that. But telling people that their feelings are not valid, or to deny them the opportunity to express them is really uncalled for and runs counter to what a forum (discussion among individuals with similar interests) is about. And it only fans the flames and
hinders people from moving past the emotional. I say, let people get their feelings off their chest (and not condemn them for doing so) and soon we will be talking about the product.


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