Dove Banned

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Richard Kaufman
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Dove Banned

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 29th, 2011, 12:49 pm

This is a silly story: a magician tries to board an airplane with a dove IN HIS POCKET:
http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9442 ... rom-flight
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Pete Biro
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Pete Biro » October 29th, 2011, 1:04 pm

I kind of think the airline is right on wanting a bird in a carrier, not out loose.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Brad Henderson » October 29th, 2011, 1:13 pm

He's from MN and had to leave the bird behind in Las Vegas - which suggests that he flew with it from MN to LV with it in his pocket.

Apparently Al Quaeda will be using the Minneapolis Airport from now on.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 29th, 2011, 1:22 pm

Notice that they don't mention what kind of pocket the dove was found in. I'm betting it was in its harness and in a "dove" pocket in his jacket. Which means he put it through the x-ray machine, no matter which pocket it was in.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Brad Henderson » October 29th, 2011, 1:46 pm

and yet, TSA didn't SEE the live animal in MN.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 29th, 2011, 4:19 pm

Perhaps the guy didn't bring the dove from Minneapolis. Maybe someone gave it to him in Vegas and it was a one-way trip.
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Magic Newswire
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Magic Newswire » October 29th, 2011, 4:42 pm

The story that I saw on this said that he flew with the dove in his pocket to LV on Frontier.

I agree. This is a totally silly story. Then you add in his past record for suing people... I'm not sure I'd refer to him as a professional magician as much as a professional at settling silly cases out of court. After all, he could have bought a crate and taken a later flight. They didn't force him to leave the bird behind. He chose to do so.

On a mildly interesting side note, Didn't he say that the bird was worth it's weight in gold? And he suing for 50k?

Lets say the bird weighed 6 oz .. .which I understand it is on the high end... (I'm no bird guy)... With the current price of gold at $1742 per oz, that comes to a bit less than $10500 I assume the balance is mental anguish, but either way, I guess that I'll go to work with Johnny Thompson and we'll come out with out officially licensed line of trained doves and make a mint! (I now remove my tongue from my cheek)

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 29th, 2011, 5:05 pm

From what I've heard from dove workers, it's become a real problem to travel with birds, even just from one destination to the other in the US, because of TSA's rules which seem to change from day to day. Even if you show up at the airport with all the proper forms and have paid whatever you're supposed to pay, they can still (for no apparent reason) refuse to let your birds fly with you.
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Ray Banks » October 29th, 2011, 5:29 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:of TSA's rules which seem to change from day to day.


I thought they changed them hour to hour
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 29th, 2011, 6:07 pm

Still very tough on the doves. :(
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby David Oliver » October 29th, 2011, 9:43 pm

The rules do change regularly - and usually it's changed by the individual airlines own rules.

Many bird workers don't bring their own birds anywhere they have to fly anymore, choosing instead, to borrow or rent birds at their destinations. Before I had to give up the birds (see Genii August 2011), I would make my birds available to certain qualified performers traveling to my area.

In the last 10-15 years that I traveled with my birds, the restrictions were fairly tough internationally, and somewhat mild domestically. They became much tougher domestically following 9/11. However, not so tough that arrangements and alternatives couldn't be made to work, and at reasonable prices and airline requests.

Sometimes a little creativity helped. True story - twenty years ago, on one of my first flights taking the birds with me, I called to book a flight with the birds in tow. The airline representative said their policy was that each pet (or "named" bird) had to be in a its own pet carrier, and that I had to pay full fair for each carrier. Thinking I had to pay for six carriers, I politely said, "thank you," and hung up. About an hour later, I called back, booked the flight, and added the expense of an extra ticket for one bird in a carrier. The name on the ticket? "Bird," middle initial "S." Last name, "Oliver." At the security check point, the guard peeked in the slightly larger carrier and counted six birds. "Sir, you are only allowed one animal per cage," he said. I responded, "Your airline rep said it's OK to have more than one of my 'emotional support birds' in the carrier, and sold me the ticket. It says right here on the boarding pass, 'BirdS Oliver'." "Enjoy your flight, sir."

I've heard all the stories and rumors for years, about performers who supposedly "loaded up" their birds in their coats, harnesses, etc., and wore them onto flights. Of course, these are usually the same performers who claim that they love their birds and would never, ever leave a bird in a harness or pocket for more than 20 minutes at a time, because of the body heat, possible suffocation, etc. When was the last time you were on a cross-country flight that lasted 20 minutes? I didn't think so. Classify it under exaggerated urban magic legends.

Perhaps, one or two performers did succeed in this years ago, when restrictions were less severe. It's entirely possible that a few people have attempted it and got away with it once or twice on short flights (a couple have even boasted to my face that they were "actually the ones" who "got away with it," to reach the same destination that I legally paid and traveled with my birds to). So, I'm sure the rumors and legends had to start somewhere in truth. But to even attempt such a thing after 9/11 is ludicrous today.

Prior to 9/11, even after following the rules, using a carrier, and paying fees, I would still place the pet carrier in a small duffle bag (with air holes). This was to disguise the pet carrier from people who are afraid of animals, and to not alarm anyone. However, I would still show them to the flight crew. Having them hidden in a duffle bag under my seat also helped when the birds would coo. As other passengers looked around the plane to find the source of the noise, I would do the same, and then suggest, "oh, they must have trapped a pigeon below in the cargo area. G'nite." It usually worked.

Following 9/11, IF I took my birds onto a flight with me, I didn't try to hide them - at all. I openly declared them to the airport security, the flight crew, and anyone sitting near me. I didn't want them to freak out over cooing, flapping or other noises. I also wanted them to see that the birds were secure in a carrying case that would not opened during the flight. Usually, everyone was very thankful I shared the info, and quite polite about it, once they realized the birds would be less bothersome than a screaming child on the same flight. At the same time, I never passed my birds through the X-ray. I would simply ask the security to take me to a side room to open and inspect the carrier if necessary, rather than risking the birds flying throughout the terminal. They were always pleasant and thankful.

In addition, I researched other options available to me. The last 10 years that I did my bird act, I used my own birds, anywhere and everywhere that I traveled. They never once bothered other passengers (and NO, they were not in the cargo hold), never gave me problems through security, etc. In that 10 years, because of the options I was able to use, I never once had a problem with ANY airline or security, and the birds were ALWAYS safe and ready to perform.

Due to my health situation, I've obviously not flown with my birds in the last three years, so I'm not sure exactly how the airlines and TSA rules might have changed in that time frame. You can bet, however, for this guy to try such a thing today, to be denied, then caught SECRETLY trying to SNEAK them on and then try to sue over it, is foolish, unnecessary, and is only going to make it even more difficult for those who still try to responsibly, and legally travel with birds today. My guess it that security was not as upset at his lack of using a carrier, as they were for him trying to SNEAK something onboard he plane that he KNEW was unacceptable. In today's world? Really?

Now and forever more, flying solo....
- DO

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David Scollnik
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Re: Dove Banned

Postby David Scollnik » November 1st, 2011, 11:06 pm

A few more details here:

http://www.levisparkx.com/tag/bernard-poston/

"He told a Saint Paul Pioneer Press reporter that he lost the phone number of the untrained employee who offered to take care of Magic. The suit is for $50,000 including losses for damaged luggage, emotional distress and lost business."

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Re: Dove Banned

Postby Richard Hatch » November 2nd, 2011, 1:55 am

This version of the article includes a crude exposure of a dove bag, apparently provided by the magician:
http://www.twincities.com/ci_19211110

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Re: Dove Banned

Postby David Oliver » November 2nd, 2011, 1:00 pm

"Was unaware of their pet policy." Yup. That'll win in court. <Insert sarcastic sneer here> Ignorance is not a defense.
- DO


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