Et, tu, Legerdemain?

[Richard Kaufman]

The New York Times has compiled a list of words used in its writings whose definitions are most often looked up by readers using its online dictionary.

"Legerdemain" is number SIX. That's right, it's the 6th most-often looked up word by readers:

http://topics.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07 ... ncy-words/

The writer of the piece adds, "Legerdemain has a long history in English, but still seems more foreign than familiar substitutes like 'sleight of hand' or 'deceit'."

Far more readers seem to know the meaning of "insouciance" than ledgerdemain (for example)!

[Jonathan Townsend]

They probably thought it meant clever accounting practices.

ledgerdemain. ;)

[Philippe Billot]

Comes from old French : "Lger de main"

You can translate as "Skill hand"

[Terrence]

Interesting!

I wonder how the OED defines the word? (Especially the first known literary quotation of the word.)

[Oli Foster]

I've just had a quick flick through Discoverie of Witchcraft, which has it down as "legierdemaine". That's 1584 and according to the 'online etymology dictionary', it's early 15th century. This would make sense as, up until some time around the 1400's, French was the language of the English gentry and what we now call English was the commoners language, which only became popular with writers like Chaucer being published by Caxton a little later on in that century.

'Sleight of hand' is another one for variation, as, if you think about it, we've retained a middle english spelling for this term, as I don't think there's anything to etymologically separate it from 'slight of hand', having the same 'lightness' connotation as legerdemain. I've variously heard it pronouced "slate of hand", from somebody who must have only read the term, and "sly of hand", from somebody who must have misheard and inferred this reasonably logical, if not grammatically correct, meaning...

Then there's 'juggling', which again, in Scot's time used to mean what we would call 'magic', rather than chucking balls in the air. This is interesting as what we now think of as juggling (outside of chucking balls in the air) is a far more accurate term for what we do than the more traditionally mystical associations of 'magic'. I can only think that this is because attitudes and beliefs have changed and now, outside of alternative beliefs, 'magic' doesn't really have any other meaning for your average person, so there's no longer a need to differentiate it.

How about 'prestidigitation?' I bet they don't know what that means! Again, pretty much literally meaning the same but apparently made up by magician Jules deRovere in 1815 and proving more prevalent than 'houdinise' as an example of magicians trying to worm their way into common parlance! Odd bunch that we are...

[Jonathan Townsend]

Comes from old French : "Lger de main"

You can translate as "Skill hand"

Leger -> without effort. ??

I translated the term as more "graceful" in the sense of ballet.

[Bill Mullins]

I wonder how the OED defines the word? (Especially the first known literary quotation of the word.)

Funny you should ask . . .

legerdemain n.
1. [1] Sleight of hand; the performance of tricks which by nimble action deceive the eye; jugglery; conjuring tricks.

14.. Lydgate Daunce Machabree, Lygarde-de-mayne now helpith me right noughte.

c1475 Cath. Angl. (Add. MS.) 212/2 To play lechardemane, pancraciari.

1528 Rede me & be nott Wrothe sig. i iv, O, churche men are wyly foxes, More crafty then iuggelers boxes, To play ligier du mayne teached.

1562 W. Bullein Bk. Simples f. 30, in Bulwarke of Defence, Many Inkepers with their hostlers through a cast of legerdemain: can make a pecke of draffe and Beanes, buye three bushelles of cleane Pease or Beanes.

1584 R. Scot Discouerie Witchcraft xiii. xxii. 321 The true art . . . of iuggling consisteth in legierdemaine; to wit, the nimble conueiance of the hand

2. [2] a. def transf. and fig. Trickery, deception, hocus-pocus.

1532 T. More Confut. Tyndale in Wks. 639/2 Hys lygier demaine in stealing


etc., etc.

[Philippe Billot]

Comes from old French : "Lger de main"

You can translate as "Skill hand"

Leger -> without effort. ??

I translated the term as more "graceful" in the sense of ballet.

Not exactly, it's an old expression : "Il a la main lgre" equal "Il est habile de ses mains" but this expression implies that the person is not really an honest man.

[Daved]

Lger literally means "light" (contrary of heavy).

So I would consider the most _literal_ translation to be: Light hand. I think Philippe would agree.

I think the origins are coming from the pickpocket world. Than used in other contexts.

Dave

[Philippe Billot]

I agree, "lger" can be translated as "light" but, as write your compatriot Umberto Eco, in his book "Dire presque la mme chose" (Dire quasi la stessa ?), it's better to find an equivalent expression that translate word for word.

I don't believe that in the word "Light" there is a notion of trickery.

In fact, "sleight of hand" seems to be the best equivalent of "Lger de main".

[Jonathan Townsend]

Thanks Philippe, is that a new book by Eco or what we have here as Experiences in Translation"?

It seems we agree that the English cognate, "light fingered", is a term which requires a wink not present in our language to serve this craft of honest deception. IMHO "sleight" pertains to methods and so pushes the prestigest into competition with the juggler. Suggesting that we juggle but so well that it goes by unnoticed puts forth an unwanted challenge, again IMHO.

The second antique French expression has virtuous English cognates. To be good with ones hands aligns with craftsman or artisan, a skilled worker.

[Philippe Billot]

It's the same book. See here :

http://livres.fluctuat.net/umberto-eco/ ... raduction/

[Jonathan Townsend]

Thanks Philippe, that will be my next non-magic related read. I hope the work in English does not lose too much of Eco's sensibilities. Sometimes I get the feeling that Borges was right about works creating their readers and that books are not the same when you read them away from their intended context/time.

Any candidates for the "first magic book with references to earlier works" question? IE the book has tricks and refers the reader to earlier works with tricks.

[Eric Fry]

FYI: English dictionaries say "sleight" ultimately derives from the Old Norse word for "sly." The connotation of "sleight," of course, is dexterity in the service of deception.

One of the meanings of "light" is to be capable of moving swiftly or nimbly, as in light-fingered or light on ones feet, like a good dancer. So "light" in that sense isn't always associated with deception.

But I agree with Daved that "legerdemain" might have been applied to magicians because of an association with pickpockets.

It was probably a well-deserved association, considering all those old-time prints and paintings of magicians distracting a crowd while someone picks their pockets. Eventually the skill-sets merge and are used legitimately by someone like Alexander Herrmann.

[Terrence]

Thank you Bill for the dictionary definition.

In sheet music instructions the French "Leger" (It. Leggiero) means to play the passage with light, graceful swiftness. One teacher taught that the passage, however dexterously challenging, should sound and even look almost effortless.

[Daved]

I agree, "lger" can be translated as "light" but, as write your compatriot Umberto Eco, in his book "Dire presque la mme chose" (Dire quasi la stessa ?), it's better to find an equivalent expression that translate word for word.

Hi Philippe, I perfectly agree. That's why I wrote literally.
In my idea your translation is the one to use, but I wanted to point out the "origin" of the word.

In Italy we usually associate a "light hand" with the idea of skill (meaning you can do whatever you want with your hands, with a very gentle touch and without people noticing the "touch").
In Italy this is often associated with pickpocketing. And you know we have a long tradition of it in Italy ;)

@Terrence Light is Leggero (maybe it was a typing error, maybe not, just to give you the correct word) in Italian. Your point is right.

[Terrence]

Quite right Daved!

The music term is spelled leggiero, and I don't know the precise etymology.

That expression has been around for centuries, as Italian dominated (and still continues to this day) music expressions, so it just might be an old spelling -- as major languages evolve over time, a letter or two gets dropped from a word. (Or it could be a different part of speech.)

Some composers themselves though do use more modern spellings for these expressions -- and since Mozart's time other languages have been introduced depending on the composer's nationality or the creative period.

Pardon the digression -- don't want to light-finger the topic!

[Jonathan Townsend]

FYI: English dictionaries say "sleight" ultimately derives from the Old Norse word for "sly." The connotation of "sleight," of course, is dexterity in the service of deception. ...

"I know you did something on the sly there" - let's call that "a sleight" which fills in that something as known rather than imply unknown or unknowable cause. Unfortunately if they know (by way of feel/sense/perceive) that you did something the magic is lost and you are again in competition with the jugglers for skill. Not bad if you are demonstrating a skill though not necessarily useful if one wants to create wonderment.

FWIW folks tend to use think for feel, feel for think based upon belief and want for desire. Interesting shift in language. Never mind the distinction between effect and affect. ;)

[Daved]

The music term is spelled leggiero, and I don't know the precise etymology.

Hi Terrence. I checked and you can use leggiero (more "ancient" word). I didn't know it was still written in music that way.