Magic Castle difficulties

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Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 14th, 2011, 7:22 pm

Actually, much of these discussions become unnecessarily verbose due to the fact that the reading comprehension level of certain contributors is at an extremely low level. I wonder if you have difficulty understanding the instructions that come with a trick! It is granted that some instructions aren't written very well.

I've been accused of 'blathering'; however, much of this is only in the mind of the beholder. There's a certain amount of solipsism in these viewpoints. Read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave"!
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houdini's ghost
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby houdini's ghost » June 14th, 2011, 7:28 pm

No!

Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 14th, 2011, 7:31 pm

Very well put, Houdini's Ghost!

Brad Henderson
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Brad Henderson » June 14th, 2011, 8:57 pm

Passionboy,

Do you really believe drunken card tricks have anything to do with the systemic problems with the magic castles financial situation and are worthy of comment ANYWHERE, let alone in this thread?

Seems blathery to me.

Perhaps some guys can get together at mel's tonight. Have some drinks and snacks and all.

Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 14th, 2011, 10:04 pm

No! I don't believe that about 'drunken card tricks'! Again, you misinterpret!

Brad Henderson
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Brad Henderson » June 15th, 2011, 1:21 am

No, you don't get it

But Don't worry about it. Ultimately nothing you write here can or will impact anything, so it's hardly worth arguing over.

Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 16th, 2011, 7:52 pm

Intelligent adults should be able to at least agree to disagree without arguing or becoming angry!

Quite often the apparent misunderstanding really does seem more willful than anything else! I believe Mr. Kaufman is correct about that!
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Brad Henderson » June 16th, 2011, 9:12 pm

I am the only one who can say whether or not I was being willful. I am and was not, regardless of what you or Richard care to assert.

And as you are a pseudnonymous irrelevancy in both my world and, as far as these posts go, in the world of the magic castle, it really doesn't matter what you think. Though to assert you know my intentions better than myself would demonstrate illusions of omnipotence that may explain why the castle will forever be in a mess - everyone thinks they know everything when no one (at least those fanning the flames) Apparently knows anything.

Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 16th, 2011, 10:31 pm

Brad, I never claimed that I know everything. You certainly get defensive and make assumptions!

You say that the Magic Castle is in a mess! In a mess forever, you say! I didn't know it was my fault! No hard feelings!

I rest my case!
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houdini's ghost
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby houdini's ghost » June 16th, 2011, 11:57 pm

How did Brad Henderson and Don Beach hijack this thread?
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Jeff Eline
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Jeff Eline » June 17th, 2011, 2:46 am

houdini's ghost wrote:How did Brad Henderson and Don Beach hijack this thread?


If you read their posts with an English accent, it's actually quite funny. Almost Black Adder-esque.

Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 17th, 2011, 7:47 am

Who is Don Beach?

houdini's ghost
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby houdini's ghost » June 17th, 2011, 11:52 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGkW_f1ypy4

And that should lay this thread to rest.

Passionboy!

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 17th, 2011, 12:22 pm

Busted!
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Brad Henderson » June 17th, 2011, 1:50 pm

I apologize for having hijacked the thread. Let us all now return to our regularly scheduled program of speculation and rumor mongering.

Doc Eason
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Doc Eason » June 19th, 2011, 12:48 pm

I have visited and performed at the Castle pretty much twice a year for the past ten years. Everytime I was there, it was different than the time before. New rules, new nuances.. not always good and sometimes downright stupid.. but the new make up of the board instills optimism from me as well. I agree with the esteemed monitor of this forum, there is reason to be hopeful... for the first time in some time.

I say "let em go to work and see if they can turn things around". Why be so pessimistic?
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Bob Cassidy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Bob Cassidy » June 19th, 2011, 9:54 pm

I concur Doc. (And I hope we get booked at the same time again sometime soon. Always great working with you!)

Best-
And remember, my friends, future events such as these will affect you in the future.-Criswell

Naphtalia
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Naphtalia » June 20th, 2011, 4:41 pm

The latest BoD minutes are out and seem quite positive in the steps that are happening. Among other things will be a monthly column in the newsletter by the Treasurer, plans for an upcoming meeting with the membership to discuss last years finances and this year's budget, establishing a ad hoc financial advisory committee....etc....

Great stuff going forward.
Naphtalia


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erdnasephile
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby erdnasephile » June 20th, 2011, 5:05 pm

Now, that is very good to hear!

Thanks, Naphtalia!

El Harvey Oswald
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby El Harvey Oswald » June 22nd, 2011, 12:12 am

That this is where people come for candid, comprehensive discussions -- not the AMA/Magic Castle forums or threads or whatever they're called -- is kind of the beginning and the end of the issue. Obviously that's partly attributable to permitting anonymity. And any institution with a "troubling history" or "unfortunate past" or whatever the euphemism was for deleting posts and censorship will have a long, probably impossible, road back. Not that it particularly matters, anyway, under which rubric the discussion is happening, so long as it can happen somewhere.

What ever happened to the guy with the savvy accounting analysis -- undercut? -- that an $800k deficit last year means proportional monthly deficits this year and insolvency on a date certain?

undercut
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby undercut » June 22nd, 2011, 1:28 am

Even the irrepressible Undercut goes out of town for a gig once in awhile. :)
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houdini's ghost
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby houdini's ghost » June 22nd, 2011, 2:34 am

Well, Undercut, I suppose the the Board should all line up behind you. You got a lot of good ideas.
Actually, you don't have a lot of good ideas. Some dire warnings, some indication of where you think the bodies are buried--or should be. Not much more than that. Repeated ad nauseum.
Now, considering how long as you have been around the Castle, Undercut, you should have led us out of the wilderness by now. Only maybe that's the thing about you "voices in the wilderness"--you stay out there, ranting away about the coming Armageddon--because if you don't stay out there in the wilderness, you'll blow your cover--you know, the protective coloration of anonymity. And then everybody would see what you really know and how you get your information. Such as it is.

Terrence
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Terrence » June 22nd, 2011, 10:05 am

El Harvey Oswald wrote:That this is where people come for candid, comprehensive discussions -- not the AMA/Magic Castle forums or threads or whatever they're called -- is kind of the beginning and the end of the issue. Obviously that's partly attributable to permitting anonymity. And any institution with a "troubling history" or "unfortunate past" or whatever the euphemism was for deleting posts and censorship will have a long, probably impossible, road back. Not that it particularly matters, anyway, under which rubric the discussion is happening, so long as it can happen somewhere.

What ever happened to the guy with the savvy accounting analysis -- undercut? -- that an $800k deficit last year means proportional monthly deficits this year and insolvency on a date certain?


Great post!

Long and difficult road back, not impossible. It's being worked on. Never say never.

(BTW your post is going to come in handy for the restoration of the road.)

And do not forget that someone did reach out from behind the scenes and got a post altered here by threatening legal action.

Savvy Undercut? Right!! :whistle:

Max Maven
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Max Maven » June 22nd, 2011, 11:43 am

Okay, I can't stay silent any longer, now that this ongoing symphony of misinformation has extended to 23 pages of posts.

The AMA Board of Trustees has, since the start of this year, instituted a monthly series of "Members' Meet-Ups" that provide an opportunity for club members to ask questions and discuss our club. I hosted the most recent one, last week. It drew a good turnout, and covered a range of things.

Some magic was presented, some was taught, but there were also many types of information about the state of the Castle: upcoming events, a discussion of some of the recent activities of Board of Directors, some Q&A with the Director of Entertainment, and a dialogue regarding the recent brouhaha concerning the squib in the last Trustees' minutes on the topic of where and when impromptu performing is acceptable at the club.

That paragraph from the minutes has been argued about, but not before having its meaning twisted. Whether this has been intentional or simply confused is not for me to say. I would, however, urge anyone who wants to fight about it to pay attention to the three most important terms that appeared in that paragraph: suggest, reiterate and authorize.

The Castle is going through some upheaval -- and not for the first time. On the one hand, there's little value in taking a Pollyanna approach that everything is just dandy. There are real problems, and they are really being addressed. Will this be accomplished without any stumbles? Of course not. But jumping to every possible negative interpretation is not particularly helpful, spreading false and distorted information serves to add additional problems, and doing so under pseudonyms does not help at all.

I'm posting under my own name, as I always have. If any member of the AMA wants to discuss current issues with me, I am easy to find. But please, stop spreading half-informed [censored]. That may work to fertilize farm crops, but in this context it merely serves to stink up the joint.

KirkG
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby KirkG » June 23rd, 2011, 11:17 am

Good info Max. Glad you were able to shed some light for those who could make it to the "Meet up."

Unfortunately, the bulk of membership couldn't and therefore have to rely on what is posted on our forums and in our very incomplete minutes. It isn't hard to see why, with such limited communication, misunderstandings occur. Also, history has showed us, the often these are not misunderstandings, but valid grievances of poor practices or ideas put forth by the PTB.

I look forward to a new era of better communication on ALL levels. Let's see if it really happens.

El Harvey Oswald
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby El Harvey Oswald » June 23rd, 2011, 3:18 pm

Max is quite right about the recent "Member Meet-Up," which embodied all the candor and thoroughness that the AMA forums lack. And while those forums are probably moribund, this one is an adequate substitute. Anonymity versus no anonymity, Genii versus AMA thread: Those are really non-issues, or at most a cause celebre for those looking for a signature grievance. As for the real issues -- foremost the Castle's financial condition -- Max, Rich Cowley, and the strong-and-silent new Board member with the much-admired military background all seem to have inspired a lot of confidence, and were in no sense evasive. "Undercut's" moment seems to have passed. The grown-up look to be taking care of things.

Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 25th, 2011, 12:23 am

Max mentioned: "The Castle is going through some upheaval." Speaking of upheavals, there has been some talk in certain circles about changing the name: "Magic Castle" to "Magic Mansion"! This sounds like mutiny, since Milt Larsen owns the name "Magic Castle"! That would certainly be an upheaval!

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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby El Harvey Oswald » June 25th, 2011, 12:37 am

" there has been some talk in certain circles about changing the name: "Magic Castle" to "Magic Mansion"! This sounds like mutiny, since Milt Larsen owns the name "Magic Castle"! That would certainly be an upheaval!"

Either there is (i) serious consideration of supplanting an extraordinary and stable brand identity -- Magic Castle -- with something different but close to it - Magic Mansion -- for no self-evident reason, while incurring all the transitional costs, but no apparent benefits; or, (ii) an obtuse poster is attempting to elevate idle conjecture to breaking news. On the assumption that people who speak in empty bluster like "some talk in certain circles" are generally fully of [censored], I'll go with the former.

Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 25th, 2011, 1:40 am

Oswald, you say, "I'll go with the former." I believe you meant to say "I'll go with the latter." Or don't you know the difference between "former" and "latter"? I'll overlook your crude language!

I believe you're trying to say this rumor couldn't be true, and I certainly hope it isn't.

El Harvey Oswald
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby El Harvey Oswald » June 26th, 2011, 1:17 am

IMHO, "latter" refers to the one that's farther away from the sentence that's doing the speaking; "former" is the one closer to it -- i.e., en otras palabras, the one you'd have to travel through, so to speak if you will quite frankly, to arrive at the farther away, later (in time) thus latter, statement, which in this instance (i), which is where you'd be only after having "formerly" been at (ii), thus the former (assuming of course that you are indeed traveling in a linear fashion from the sentence that purports to define this spatial (in my opinion) relationship). Again, in my opinion. Others might legitimately have a preference for "former" preceding "latter." However to judge that or any individual preference would not only be offensive; it would violate the established objective fact that there are no established objective facts -- foremost no "best" way to do or think about things. As the post-Kantian epistemologists have observed, "ain't no right, ain't no wrong." (Harry Lorayne also claims to have coined that famous aphorism.) In my opinion.

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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby John Signa » June 26th, 2011, 5:25 am

Sorry, Oswald, but you are incorrect. The two words "former" and "latter" refer to the objects relative to their position within the list of choices,
Former refers to the first or "earlier" of the two choices. Latter refers to the last.

Between coffee and tea, I chose the former. (I chose coffee.)

These aren't preferences, but defined meanings of the words. Without consistent use of them, they would have no meaning.

KirkG
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby KirkG » June 26th, 2011, 11:40 am

Yep, Oswald, you are wrong in this case. When two things are listed as choices, the former is the first one. Perhaps that little alliteration will help you remember.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 26th, 2011, 1:18 pm

I used to be the formor, but now I am the ladder.
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby JohnCox » June 26th, 2011, 7:04 pm

Max Maven wrote:Okay, I can't stay silent any longer, now that this ongoing symphony of misinformation has extended to 23 pages of posts.

The AMA Board of Trustees has, since the start of this year, instituted a monthly series of "Members' Meet-Ups" that provide an opportunity for club members to ask questions and discuss our club. I hosted the most recent one, last week. It drew a good turnout, and covered a range of things.

Some magic was presented, some was taught, but there were also many types of information about the state of the Castle: upcoming events, a discussion of some of the recent activities of Board of Directors, some Q&A with the Director of Entertainment, and a dialogue regarding the recent brouhaha concerning the squib in the last Trustees' minutes on the topic of where and when impromptu performing is acceptable at the club.

That paragraph from the minutes has been argued about, but not before having its meaning twisted. Whether this has been intentional or simply confused is not for me to say. I would, however, urge anyone who wants to fight about it to pay attention to the three most important terms that appeared in that paragraph: suggest, reiterate and authorize.

The Castle is going through some upheaval -- and not for the first time. On the one hand, there's little value in taking a Pollyanna approach that everything is just dandy. There are real problems, and they are really being addressed. Will this be accomplished without any stumbles? Of course not. But jumping to every possible negative interpretation is not particularly helpful, spreading false and distorted information serves to add additional problems, and doing so under pseudonyms does not help at all.

I'm posting under my own name, as I always have. If any member of the AMA wants to discuss current issues with me, I am easy to find. But please, stop spreading half-informed [censored]. That may work to fertilize farm crops, but in this context it merely serves to stink up the joint.


Thank you, Max.
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Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 27th, 2011, 10:54 pm

I'm back here, Richard! This is a subject that shoud be stirred!
I don't create these situations. I only respond to them. So this is the current thread, of course!

I don't mean to spread rumors. I doubt if I've suggested anything that isn't already circulating around.

What is Truth?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 27th, 2011, 11:55 pm

Truth is an absolute.

Truth is relative.

Both are true.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Brad Henderson » June 27th, 2011, 11:58 pm

Passionboy wrote:You say that the Magic Castle is in a mess! In a mess forever, you say! I didn't know it was my fault!

I rest my case!


I can't see how you are helping.

Passionboy
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Passionboy » June 28th, 2011, 12:36 am

Brad, do you think you are helping? I am merely wondering!

Richard, concerning the subject of Truth. . . . John Keats says in his "Ode On A Grecian Urn":

"'Beauty is Truth, Truth beauty,'--that is all
Te know on earth, and all ye need to know."

This passage reflects Plato's concept of Beauty and Truth.

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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby Rick Ruhl » June 28th, 2011, 10:34 am

If a business (and AMA is a business, non-profit) is continually having problems, then maybe it's time to close the business.

I know how we all feel about the Castle, but maybe it's 50 year run has come to an end..and we look toward the future.

Sometimes it's best to cut your losses and get out.

El Harvey Oswald
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Re: Magic Castle difficulties

Postby El Harvey Oswald » June 28th, 2011, 10:40 am

"If a business (and AMA is a business, non-profit) is continually having problems, then maybe it's time to close the business.

I know how we all feel about the Castle, but maybe it's 50 year run has come to an end..and we look toward the future.

Sometimes it's best to cut your losses and get out."

profound


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