The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 5th, 2011, 1:40 pm

MagicMan123, your posts have become accusations that can only be made if you have concrete evidence to back them up. Email me your evidence or I'll have to delete your posts.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicMan123 » May 5th, 2011, 1:49 pm

Sorry if what I wrote seems like an accusation to you, or others. The questions should be asked to the board. An audit should be done of the book. What I posted are the facts.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 5th, 2011, 2:09 pm

No, you are leveling accusations at Matt Patton. For example, are you privy to what the the high costs were for the flowers? How do you know the costs were high and not, perhaps, a discount? I dont know if they were or werent; the point is, unless you have access to the billing, the best you can do is make an accusation; that is Richards point. Unless you can provide verification, your facts are hearsay.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicMan123 » May 5th, 2011, 2:11 pm

If we are operating at such high losses why was the AMA purchasing flowers and other decorations? Why were people hired to decorate the Magic Castle when they have a VOLUNTEER decorating committee?

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 5th, 2011, 2:16 pm

Bad business decisions, perhaps, but not necessarily criminal acts. Being a bad businessman is not a crime. Not only do you have to be able to PROVE what you say, if you're going to make accusations they need to be fully backed up with something other than anecdotal evidence and the law has to recognize these things as being unlawful.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 5th, 2011, 2:25 pm

Even a volunteer committee has to purchase flowers. If the cost of flowers included people to decorate--during a time of day when those on the committee are doing their "day job"--perhaps going in that direction was cost effective. Without all the facts, there is no way to come to a conclusion.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicMan123 » May 5th, 2011, 2:30 pm

Ask people on the volunteer committee and you will discover that they were never asked.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Soda Jerk » May 5th, 2011, 6:06 pm

I thought this discussion was about the bad business decisions that have led us to this point. I'm not sure where the accusation of criminal behavior is implied.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Chris Aguilar » May 5th, 2011, 6:27 pm

I haven't noticed any claims of criminal behavior in this thread, just poor business behavior. It's interesting.

I remember when Tony Giorgio sued the AMA several years ago. He lost, primarily because his suit was pretty foolish. But the depositions of some of the AMA/Castle officers at the time were pretty dismaying. Primarily in the reticence to give straight answers concerning club finances and other policies. Perhaps things are much better now than they were then, but it was a real eye opener for me. Very disappointing.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 5th, 2011, 6:51 pm

MagicMan123 wrote:Matt Patton was given a blank check by Dave Clement and Mark Felicetti to do what he wanted with it. It is now the members that are paying for it while Mark and Dave continue to cover up the facts.

That can easily be considered an accusation of a criminal act.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Chris Aguilar » May 5th, 2011, 6:57 pm

I don't know Richard. Is giving someone a blank check for funds illegal? Ill advised, or against the rules perhaps, but I don't see "criminal" there.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 5th, 2011, 6:57 pm

MagicMan123 wrote:It would need to be a very detailed inspection of the finances. There are a lot of costs that went into the Cabaret at the Castle series that Dave may not post as a cost to that and move hat [sic] money somewhere else. [emphasis mine]

And another one.

It's Richard's call at this point.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 5th, 2011, 6:58 pm

Chris Aguilar wrote:I don't know Richard. Is giving someone a blank check for funds illegal? Ill advised, or against the rules perhaps, but I don't see "criminal" there.

Read the second line. The blank check is not the issue. The accusation of covering up (hiding financial information) is.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Chris Aguilar » May 5th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Is shifting funds around necessarily always criminal in nature?

Businesses often move money around to cover a shortfall in under performing divisions.

Doing so certainly can sometimes be unethical, against the rules, or simply bad business practices, which is how I read it.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Chris Aguilar » May 5th, 2011, 7:05 pm

I don't know Dustin. That whole "covering up" thing seems sort of vague to me. Without more detail, I personally wouldn't assume the worst.

But as a forums admin myself, I understand how RK might have to tread very carefully here.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 5th, 2011, 7:14 pm

And that's the point. How you read it, how I read it, how someone's lawyer reads it...

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Chris Aguilar » May 5th, 2011, 7:19 pm

Agreed Dustin.

I'm sort of curious as to why the people who seem to need an alternative AMA/Castle Board just don't set one up on their own.

It's not expensive or hard to to and they could talk about (and be responsible for) whatever they wanted there.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Pete McCabe » May 5th, 2011, 11:31 pm

I think the whole point is that the people who want/need an alternative Castle board don't want to be held responsible for what they want to say. This is all very depressingly the direct result of lack of transparency in the organization.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby undercut » May 6th, 2011, 3:01 am

sorry for the delay, great difficulty logging on.

The issue relating to conflict of interest:
Duty of Loyalty
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/50/53/1872746.pdf
"The most important fiduciary duty is the duty of loyalty. The concept is simple: the
decision makers within the company should act in the interests of the company, and not in
their own interests. The easiest way to comply with this duty is not to engage in transactions
that involve a conflict of interest. We often call these "self-dealing" transactions."

It may be totally fine to arrange to have a relative hired in a non-competitive process...the problem is if it is NOT DISCLOSED!!

Is this a problem for the Board to answer....NO. The answer is yes it was disclosed, or no it was not.

BTW, the Controller is the Castle censor.
Last edited by undercut on May 9th, 2011, 2:45 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: The Treasurer disputes the poster's statement.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby undercut » May 6th, 2011, 3:04 am

My sources are people who will lose their positions if they are known to talk to me...

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 6th, 2011, 10:17 am

It would all be very simple if the people who are calling the shots explain themselves and their actions. Transparency eliminates ambiguity, mystery, and suspicion.

I'll tell you what really irks me: the business about not being able to spontaneously stand up and ask a question at the general meetings. All questions have to be submitted and approved in advance. The very nature of this rule makes one suspicious.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 6th, 2011, 2:32 pm

Their reasoning has always been that they do not want the meetings to devolve into a free-for-all; a very real problem since weve seen it happen.

But there is no doubt at all that the way they are handling it now does create suspicionjustifiably or not. After all, it can appear that they areand Im not saying its the case; Im saying that they can be, and often are, accused ofpicking and choosing only those questions they want to answer. And there is little doubt that the answers are carefully prepared (but theres a good reason for that which will be made clear later).

There are simpleand quite standardsolutions to this (which was something else I would have brought to the BoD: years of practical experience dealing with the operations of a BoD with a vocal constituency.)

First of all, anyone wishing to address the board must, prior to the meeting, sign up with the Secretary on the day of the meeting; not via email or phonethe person must be there. If you dont sign up, you dont get to address the BoD. And the open forum section of the meeting can also be limited in time. An hour is standard but there can be flexibility here; thats left to the discretion of the board.

Second, the speaker is limited as to time. Two to three minutes is standard, but there are ways to get more time. For example, I needed at least four minutes to address the Board of Trustees of my sons college, but I was limited to two. My son signed up to speak after me. Prior to my address, I requested that the President allow my son to yield his two minutes to me (standard parliamentary procedure). It was granted. Had it not been, my son simply would have continued from my prepared notes where I left off. (The President of my board actually has an egg timer she uses; when it dings, youre done and shes banging her gavel!)

So, with a two minute per person time limit and an hour overall, thats about 30 people. Thats a lot of people, and generally speaking, not that many people care to address the board. But, if more than 30 people wish to speak, the BoD has the power to extend the open forum or limit the number of speakers once the allotted time is filled (the latter being what our college trustees do, by the way, which is within their purview).

If all this is not in the bylaws of the AMA BoD, it should be, but just because its not doesnt mean they cannot run the meeting with these rules; they just need to be announced prior to the meeting. The absence of a rule in the bylaws does not mean standard accepted rules of order cannot be applied to a meeting.

This is all very simple stuff. It prevents free-for-alls and keeps the meeting within its time table. Anyone who wants to get into a yelling matchand Ive seen it happenis ruled out of order and asked to leaveof course these idiots are usually escorted out because they are, well, idiots.

Now, with all that having been said, a board is bound to certain limitations as to what they can say in an open forum. For example, while everyone in the place knew who I was talking about anyway, I once slipped up by actually saying the name when, in fact, I couldnt use it in an open forum! I could have gotten the BoD in a lot of trouble simply by openly uttering a name that everyone already knew; but it doesnt matter! I should not have done it!

So this is why, even in open forums, you will receive answers such as We will take in under advisement and get back to you from the board members. This is for the protection of the board and everyone they represent (including employees whose rights often carry more weightbecause of state and federal lawthan those of the members).

So often its not necessarily a matter of a lack of transparency; its a matter of law, ethics, and decorum.

Dustin

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Chris Aguilar » May 6th, 2011, 2:42 pm

Dustin's suggestions exhibit common sense and practicality.

Indeed, what he suggests is exactly how my city's council handles questions from the public. It works well for them and probably for most every other organization that allocates the time that way.

That the BOD of the AMA hasn't adopted something similar is puzzling and frankly reflects poorly on them in my eyes.

Also, since the AMA has an official online Board, do they make any effort to take and answer those kind of questions there? Or do unwanted questions simply vanish into the online ether?

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Soda Jerk » May 6th, 2011, 2:50 pm

Dustin,

Fantastic post. My respect for you and your thoughtfulness, continues to grow.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Larry Horowitz » May 6th, 2011, 5:07 pm

I have in the past suggested to members of the board that the board appoint one member to monitor the castle forums. When they see a question or situation that can be answered in a public forum by the board, that they do so, with an official board post.

To my knowledge no action of this kind has taken place.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Naphtalia » May 6th, 2011, 5:50 pm

I like the idea of questions submitted in advance, but with the expectation that all questions submitted by the deadline would be addressed. I would really like a way to submit the questions that offers an opportunity to make them public. I would like to know that the issue of XYZ has been raised. Perhaps there needs to be a mechanism to allow the questions to be posted anonymously so as to avoid someone feeling they might be under attack.

Most questions addressed to a BoD on the day of meeting may not immediately be answered - as Dustin explained.

Right now, there is an annual general meeting. Perhaps it is time to consider more than just one meeting to address yearly financial issues.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Donal Chayce » May 6th, 2011, 6:40 pm

Naphtalia wrote:Right now, there is an annual general meeting. Perhaps it is time to consider more than just one meeting to address yearly financial issues.


I've been thinking the same thing.

In reviewing the Amended By-Laws, I note that a "Special Meeting" of the membership can be called upon submitting a petition to the board signed by at least 5% of the members in good standing. Assuming that the estimate being bandied about of 5,000 current AMA members is reasonably accurate, that would translate to 250 signatures. I would think that shouldn't be too terribly difficult to achieve.

If a Special Meeting were to be called, the same quorum rule pertaining to the annual General Meeting would apply; i.e., there would need to be at least 10% of the membership or 75 members in good standing in attendance, whichever is less, in order to conduct business. (There was barely a quorum at this year's General Meeting.)
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicMan909 » May 6th, 2011, 11:03 pm

Soda Jerk wrote:Another question they should ask is, why is Matt Patton allowed to continue to run the Events Department after the enormous losses incurred by The Caberet at the Castle?


I would like to bring to this discussion that, after speaking at length with Matt Patton, he ensures me that the Cabaret at the Castle did not incur enormous losses in any way. In 2010 a detailed financial analysis of the cabarets was provided to the Board of Directors. It included all expenses and income from each cabaret held in 2009. On this analysis, there was a profit in the $10s of thousands (Matt did not know exact numbers). There must be a member of the board from that time that still has these numbers. Does anyone think they can get a copy of this document? It might help confirm or deny some of the accusations about cabaret profit/loss.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicMan909 » May 6th, 2011, 11:07 pm

Soda Jerk wrote:Also, Matt Patton spent several thousands of dollars on flowers to decorate the Castle for one night. I think it was New Years Eve. A night members have to pay to get in!
Don't take my word for it. Next time you visit the Castle, ask Milt or Irene.


Matt said that he gets all of the flowers wholesale and he and his staff do all of the floral design. I can only imagine that this would put the cost of these flowers very low compared to purchasing from a flower shop already created. I have been to the downtown floral market and they are very cheap. Once again, does anyone have proof that these cost several thousands of dollars or is this just an assumption? Milt and Irene say they dont know what the cost was.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicMan909 » May 6th, 2011, 11:10 pm

MagicMan123 wrote:Matt Patton was given a blank check by Dave Clement and Mark Felicetti to do what he wanted with it.


I spoke with Matt about this and he says that no such thing has ever happened. He said he puts together a budget for every event and presents it to Mark and Dave for approval. Matt seems to be very good at spending little money and creating events with a big bang. Did you see what he did at Brookledge for the Women in Boxes film premier? He said he spent under $500 and entertained 250 guests with amazing food displays, wine and decor.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicMan909 » May 6th, 2011, 11:13 pm

MagicMan123 wrote:Flowers and other items that were not needed were purchased at high costs to the members of the Academy of Magical Arts. Halloween for example was a huge loss to the AMA. Thousands were spent on decorations. The Castle has a VOLUNTEER decorating committee that was not used! Instead, Matt Patton hired people for very high pay to do the decorating. How is this allowed?



Who determines need? Ive seen new menus and salt shakers around the castle. Did they need them? Probably not, but they do make the dining experience enjoyable and slightly higher prices more easily swallowed. The same goes for need of new decorations. If they are the same old decorations every year, why would you keep coming back on Halloween. If its slightly different every year, the chances are that guests will want to come back.

Do you have proof that they were high cost? Do you have the financials from Halloween week? If so, please post them so we can all see the loss. As far as the volunteers on the decorating committee, although very dedicated, most of them are higher in age and are not as agile as some of Matts staff. Matt said that many of the decorations used for previous Halloweens were owned by Jean Boyle and over the past couple of years she has been liquidating and doesnt have much left. I dont know about any of you, but Halloween is my favorite time of year at the Castle and its very exciting to see new decorations and not just the ones we have seen every year for many years. Im sure that if Matts budget was approved, the funds invested were extremely reasonable.


Since Richard has not deleted these posts, Im assuming that MagicMan123 has sent appropriate evidence to him. I would like for Richard to contact Matt Patton (mpatton@magiccastle.com) to see if his evidence matches MagicMan123s.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Terrence » May 7th, 2011, 8:29 am

MagicMan909 wrote:...
Since Richard has not deleted these posts, Im assuming that MagicMan123 has sent appropriate evidence to him. I would like for Richard to contact Matt Patton (mpatton@magiccastle.com) to see if his evidence matches MagicMan123s.


Very clever inference here. (RK -- that looks like a threat to me, couched in plausibly deniable lawyer-speak.)

No, "MagicMan909". Let's have an independent forensic audit of all the transactions, and the conclusions drawn from that evidence, not presentations from anyone who has a dog in this race.

(This anonymous counter-posting reminds me of the "Mark Felt" postings on the MC Forum that were used to attack deceased member Paul Anacker.)

RK -- they're trying to draw you in!

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Lisa Cousins » May 7th, 2011, 5:19 pm

I've heard the current state of affairs at the Magic Castle described as "a coup by actors."

I hope to see the Castle recaptured for the glory of magic, and long may she reign.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 7th, 2011, 7:48 pm

I think having Neil Patrick Harris as President of the AMA is a great thing and can only bring good to the Castle.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Lisa Cousins » May 7th, 2011, 8:11 pm

Neil Patrick Harris is a long-standing member of the magic community, his actor-ness as incidental as Larry Jennings being a plumber.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby KirkG » May 7th, 2011, 10:38 pm

Who is Magicman909?

I can understand why undercut, soda jerk and MagicMan123 may need to post under a pseudonym, but way him?

To Chris,

I am not sure how you think things work, but just forming a take over board it not the simple and quick thing you seem to imply. Many apathetic members have prevented electing new members to the Board for decades.

I support the idea of a forensic audit by a committee of members. Just don't let the current board select the members.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Terrence » May 7th, 2011, 11:16 pm

Magicman909 is an insider. And the pseudonymous name I mentioned, "Mark Felt", was actually "Bill Felt".

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby hscheie » May 8th, 2011, 4:59 pm

latest announcement from the PTB:

Recently there has been some discussion on the Forums and elsewhere about California's Nonprofit Integrity Act of 2004 which mandates for certain corporations and other entities "audited" financial statements, an "audit committee" reporting to the Board of Directors, public disclosure of financial statements and other measures. This Act is applicable by its own terms only to "charitable" corporations and other entities (for example, 501(c)(3) charitable foundations). The Academy of Magical Arts is not a "charitable" corporation; therefore the Nonprofit Integrity Act doesn't apply to our organization.

This announcement was approved by the Board of Directors.
Hal Scheie

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicMan909 » May 8th, 2011, 5:14 pm

Terrence wrote:Magicman909 is an insider. And the pseudonymous name I mentioned, "Mark Felt", was actually "Bill Felt".


If you consider a member of the castle who isn't afraid to sit down at a bar with the employees and ask questions instead of making accusations with no evidence, then I guess I am an "insider".

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 8th, 2011, 7:32 pm

So much for transparency.
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