The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 22nd, 2011, 1:50 am

Hal,

How ever you want to word it, you are still making a sweeping generality that is inconsistent with reality. We only hear about the scam artists. News is not made by all the various millionaire celebrities and movie/TV/sports stars who have very honest people working for them every day over all the many decades. In relative terms, your example, which you clearly want to make some kind of rule, is actually a rare exception.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Brian Tolman » April 22nd, 2011, 1:50 am

hscheie wrote:The AMA is a non profit mutual benefit corp.

In response to Brian T's remark about celebs having to be smart enough to pick money managers, accountants, etc.
One only needs to read the headlines to see how Madoff and other advisors and money managers have ripped off their celeb clients to see how well that goes.


Same headlines show that Doctors, Lawyers and business people that should have know better.

While the point that I think you were trying to make was "being a celibrity does not automatically make them a good business person." I think you choose a bad example.

However, in the case of Neil Patrick Harris, I do think he is a good business person, and he is an asset to the board.

Do you think otherwise, Hal?

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Brian Tolman » April 22nd, 2011, 2:01 am

magicam wrote:
Brian Tolman wrote:Sadly, since you are choosing to post anonymously, we can't judge your relative knowledge in such matters. ...

Brian, unless you understand the AMA bylaws and relevant Corporations Code provisions yourself, I'd respectfully submit that undercut's identity won't tell you anything about his/her relative knowledge.


Actually, it would. Since they have choosen to post anonymously, we can only assume that they are not legal expert. If they used their name, we, the audience, could judge if we considered them qualified to make statements regarding matters of law. See, being a lawyer, in my mind, and the minds of "average person" means they have the knowledge and training to make and educated judgement on an issue of the application of a Corp Code over the Bylaws of a an Organization like the Academy.

magicam wrote:Along those lines, perhaps this threshold question should be explored before contemplating possible "shareholder" actions/remedies: does Corporations Code Section 305 even apply to the AMA and its BOD? Isn't the AMA a non-profit corporation?


I'm not a lawyer, so I have no idea.

:)

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 22nd, 2011, 2:07 am

Brian,

While I wouldn't expect you to know it, "Magicam" is pretty well-known around here. He is Clay Shevlin: A corporate attorney.

One more thing: All people are easily fleeced. The wealthy have the money, which makes their class target rich. But so too are the elderly and greedy/lazy middle and upper middleclass looking for an easy buck: For every person scammed there are thousands who are not. For every dishonest business manager/money manager (et al) there are thousands that are honest. We never hear about them.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Terrence » April 22nd, 2011, 7:37 am

Dustin - I think Brian is responding to the anonymous 'undercut' and Hal -- mostly?

Anyway, magicians should understand the notion of 'easily fleeced', as we do it 24 x 7.

The AMA Membership is easily fleeced sometimes -- look at the heaps of praise in the Newsletters, and the General Meeting Webcast.

Yet Robert resigns, and the Board appears deadlocked. I really wonder just what kind of advice they have been listening to.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby erdnasephile » April 22nd, 2011, 10:00 am

Dustin Stinett wrote:One more thing: All people are easily fleeced. The wealthy have the money, which makes their class target rich. But so too are the elderly and greedy/lazy middle and upper middleclass looking for an easy buck. . .


I think the underlined is the quality that is most likely to lead one to be an easy mark; hence, the old saying: "You can't con an honest man."

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby magicam » April 22nd, 2011, 10:23 am

For those who care about this mostly academic discussion:

Based strictly on the info provided in this thread (which is very little), I don't think it's clear that the AMA's BOD is deadlocked in any way (but who knows). It should be kept in mind that when Robert Lamoureux resigned, two vacancies were created: the Presidency of the AMA, and a seat on the AMA's Board of Directors. Those are two very different things in corporate life. Typically, a president is an officer of a corporation who is hired by the corporation's BOD, whereas a director is elected by the corporation's shareholders, unless there are exceptional circumstances (and in this case, Mr. Lamoureux's resignation seems an exceptional circumstance). Now, for the AMA, perhaps officers like presidents, vice-presidents, treasurers, etc., are elected by the members (the functional equivalent of shareholders), but the point is that the roles of President and Director are two very distinct things in corporate structure, and so when AMA members consult the AMA's bylaws to determine what the BOD's responsibilities are and when such responsibilities should be performed, it's important to keep such distinctions in mind that is to say, are the specific bylaw provisions addressing the replacement of the director or the replacement of the president? Finally, while undercut deserves a tip of the hat for endeavoring to dig into and understand the sometimes complex California Corporations Code (CCC), my guess is that the CCC provision he/she has cited does not apply to the AMA. That portion of the CCC applies to general (i.e., for-profit) corporations, whereas, generally speaking, the non-profits are governed by CCC Section 5000 et seq. Really, this is all stuff that should be resolved by the AMA's counsel, BOD, and members.

P.S. D., I'm not a corporate attorney. I'd be dead from boredom if I were. ;)

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 22nd, 2011, 1:09 pm

Clay,

My bad, its real estate, yes? (But, of course, you are still a legal expert.)

Terrence,

I see what you mean; while he quoted Clay, I see now that he was in fact referring to undercut. Sorry Brian!

Regarding the Castle Boards officers: Im fairly certain that the Castle BoD elects its executive officers, and not the membership at largewhich is pretty common (its exactly how the board Im on does it).

Like the one I am on, this board has a president, not a director. The BoD hires the General Manager of the Castle for its day-to-day operations. It then decides as to what level(s) of power it bestows on that manager. Clearly, from other posts that have appeared here, the power that has been delegated to the GM by the board (and not just by Roberthe does not have unilateral powers to delegate; a majority of the board has to agree) is more than some membersboard and at largeare comfortable with.

I just want to see that the organization is run in a manner that is profitable enough so a reserve for the hard times is maintained, but also in a way that the membership and its guests are respected and appreciated (and doesnt lose sight of its stated mission, which is the betterment of magic).

Dustin

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Terrence » April 22nd, 2011, 9:07 pm

The President of the AMA is also member of the BOD - he/she is chosen by the directors to preside over the BOD Meetings and perform the functions of the President - the choice is normally made after a new BOD is elected, so in this case we lost a Director who happened to be President. So NPH is acting President until a new director is appointed, next week, at which time the 7 Directors will either appoint NPH, or choose a different Director as President, thru the next election cycle, next year.

What I'm more concerned about -- parliamentary procedure and by-laws aside, is the Financial Report. We seem to have a whole heap o' red ink. That's gonna be a top priority.

Seems someone or someones not too big on oversight here. I happen to know three of the BOD Members, and there is no way they would let this happen. Wonder what our Treasurer has to say? (See the webcast)

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby George Siegel » April 23rd, 2011, 12:03 pm

I find the red ink issue to be very disturbing. Why weren't members made aware of the problem months ago? Why isn't it getting much coverage even now? And where are the plans to correct the problem before we burn through our cash reserves?

It occurs to me that we never had the various sorts of problems we now face while Brian Tolman was on the board. Maybe he should be appointed to fill the vacant seat. He's done it before so he knows the process.

Of course someone will point out that Brian is an associate member and the vacancy is for a regular member, but that's easily resolved. All they have to do is re-establish Maurice as a regular member. The door is then opened for Brian.

Just a thought...

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby KirkG » April 23rd, 2011, 2:30 pm

I think there are plenty of new members to consider, no sleight to Brian. Personally I think a Special Election would be the best approach. A speedy one.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby MagicBilly » April 23rd, 2011, 3:15 pm

George Siegel wrote:I find the red ink issue to be very disturbing...


About two year's ago, the focus was to build a cash war chest and they did that well. To see a huge drop in cash over last year is disconcerting, especially with MacPherson out of the picture.

If I recall correctly, the AMA controller said throughout the year the numbers were up, the special events were profitable...hummm I can't make heads or tails of his comments when looking at the financials.

And by the way, did ya'll miss that the AMA changed accountants, Such a change raised red flags when I was an auditor.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 23rd, 2011, 6:18 pm

I think Max Maven should be elected to the board.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby undercut » April 23rd, 2011, 7:13 pm

Bigger problems, boyos. The Board didn't know about the financials before you did.

How about the "non-disclosure" document that all Board members were required to sign? That makes it a violation for any of them to communicate anything about anything that is going on, to members. Remember when some Board members would post about what was going on?

So, if there were a problem, the ONLY person who could talk about it to members was....the President. Where was the communication about the financials, which Management has had for months (It was apparently told to the Board that they were tied up by the accountant.---it is worthwhile examining the dates)

Magicam was correct, I misquoted the section of the Corporate Code. One should never post when mad and in a hurry! Thanks, Counselor!

The correct section (which functionally says the same thing):

5224. (a) Unless otherwise provided in the articles or bylaws and
except for a vacancy created by the removal of a director, vacancies
on the board may be filled by approval of the board (Section 5032)
or, if the number of directors then in office is less than a quorum,
by (1) the unanimous written consent of the directors then in office,
(2) the affirmative vote of a majority of the directors then in
office at a meeting held pursuant to notice or waivers of notice
complying with Section 5211, or (3) a sole remaining director. Unless
the articles or a bylaw approved by the members (Section 5034)
provide that the board may fill vacancies occurring in the board by
reason of the removal of directors, or unless the corporation has no
members pursuant to Section 5310, such vacancies may be filled only
by approval of the members (Section 5034).
(b) The members may elect a director at any time to fill any
vacancy not filled by the directors.


Thus, the same effect.

What kind of attorney tells a board to ignore their bylaws?

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Pete Biro » April 25th, 2011, 2:36 pm

I believe the business aspects mentioned by undercut are the duties of the hired managing staff.

However, a good business background for the AMA President should be required.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby KirkG » April 26th, 2011, 10:30 am

Pete,

The buck stops with the board. It is THEIR job to oversee the the whole process. The managing staff just handles the day to day. Waiting to hear that you are in a deficit until after the year is over is silly. Cost cutting motions should be put into place and since we won on the MFB thing, our court costs should have been awarded. I know that is not always possible with the loop holes in the law, but this seemed pretty clear cut.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 26th, 2011, 10:58 am

I really don't want to read all the financials: could someone just post the amount of the deficit?
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 26th, 2011, 5:45 pm

2010 deficit = 50,489

2010 loss (before taxes) = 857,884

2010 loss (after taxes) = 502,884

So, essentially the entire cash reserve that had been built up appears to have been lost last year, and the Castle now has a $50,000 deficit.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Ted M » April 27th, 2011, 12:07 am

What's up with a quarter million dollars in "credit card fees and bank charges"?

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Larry Horowitz » April 27th, 2011, 12:20 am

the fee charges for accepting credit card payments

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 27th, 2011, 12:32 am

As a small business owner, I can tell you that the fees that credit card companies and PayPal deduct from your payment takes a big chunk out of our profits.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby undercut » April 27th, 2011, 2:15 am

what kind of business doesn't look at profit/loss until 4 months after it is over?

None.

This Board never got the information....they were not permitted to, apparently in spite of requests to the President, recently resigned. Of course, instead of business experts, we have a Board that is expert at magic tricks. What should we expect?

The membership is not going to get much information, as the Board is stopped by a non-disclosure agreement, that does not allow them do discuss anything that goes on in the Board meetings, with MEMBERS.

Did the Board oversee this disaster.....hidden.
Did the Board question expenditures?.......hidden.

Legal expenses? Wait until you figure out where that went and why....

>$800,000........hidden.

Open and transparent. Or call cops.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Terrence » April 27th, 2011, 8:35 am

Richard's right about payment processing expenses.

Of course this financial statement really needs a chart-of-accounts to make real sense of.

And along with that, more detailed information -- available to AMA Members, online.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Donal Chayce » April 28th, 2011, 6:51 am

undercut wrote:Legal expenses? Wait until you figure out where that went and why....

>$800,000........hidden.


Is that speculation on your part, or do you have inside information?
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 28th, 2011, 8:25 am

Do you mean hidden on the balance sheet showing up only when you run the numbers? Do you mean alloated to an account or chart number without a proper definition?

Hidden seems an odd word to find in an expense report.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 28th, 2011, 10:29 am

The board had a big meeting last night to interview and select the replacement board member. An insider's guess is that it's going to be ... Randy Sinnot.
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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Alan Bursky » April 28th, 2011, 10:52 am

Maybe certain BOD members, and management think China will cover the deficit.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Alan Bursky » April 28th, 2011, 10:54 am

About the new BOD member. My prediction is Randy Sinnot, Max Maven, or Jim Steinmeyer. I think it will be one of them. I wanted Chris Kenner to apply.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Alan Bursky » April 28th, 2011, 11:14 am

To Undercut,
There is only one BOD member who is a performing magician, Rich Cowley. On top of that, Rich isn't even a full time professional. Here is the rundown as far as I know it. BOD members as of right now. The magician BOD members. Neil Patrick Harris, is a star. Erika Larsen, is in theater, and stage management, production, and lighting. She also runs her own business, consulting production, and publishing. Rich Cowley does some kind of computer consulting, performing, and wedding ceremonies. He was able to retire, because he made money from writing some kind of computer code. Associate members. Maurice Newman, is a lawyer. Danny Robinson, is vice-president of APA. A large talent agency. He is Lewis Black's agent, Billy Gardel's agent, and many others. Jean Boyle, I have no idea what she really does. Now they have to appoint a new magician member to the board. Neil Patrick Harris is now the president of the AMA.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby George Siegel » April 28th, 2011, 12:06 pm

The last time I checked, Jean Boyle was the president of Trident Communications, Inc., "a full-service printing and design services organization..."

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Alan Bursky » April 28th, 2011, 1:19 pm

I hope Trident's numbers are better than the AMA.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Terrence » April 28th, 2011, 1:27 pm

Just to let you all know -- the Magic Castle Website is experiencing intermittent timeouts, and that there are technical people looking into this problem.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby hscheie » April 28th, 2011, 3:34 pm

"In relative terms, your example, which you clearly want to make some kind of rule, is actually a rare exception."

Dustin:
It may be an exception, but it's hardly rare.
I thought that this was a civilized discussion,
I wasn't trying to make any kind of rule and am frankly bothered by what seems to be an instant attack mode on your part.

I would bear in mind that pedophiles gravitate to the jobs where children are and crooked money managers to where the money is.

Brian was closer to my intent as I was trying to point out that having a lot of money or being a really nice guy does not automatically give you business expertise.

CNBC has a series called "American Greed" which I recommend viewing a few episodes to understand what I was talking about.

Are all money and business managers crooks? of course not, but unless you check and double check your accounts you'll never know until your money's gone.

I have a rule of thumb that the more times a person tells me how honest they are or that their checks good the more likely it's not true.


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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 28th, 2011, 4:09 pm

I was one of those interviewed last night andwhen I saw the group lined up for the inquisition (it was never made clear to me who was playing Torquemada)I openly admitted to feeling like Admiral Stockdale:

Who am I? Why am I here?

While the process was relatively brief, the questions by the members were directly on point. It was clear to me that they are focused and that is a good sign.

The BoD has its work cut out for them and Im confident that they will do their best.

Dustin

PS: Hal, I was not attacking any more than you: just pointing out the flaw that I saw in your thinking. And yes, its rare in relation to the number of honest people, which is my point. And yes, I saw the show and a few others like it on the TV magazine shows. These shows (more than one of which had talking heads that are clearly troubled by the evils of the profit motiveso they have their own agenda) point to the fact that, again, we NEVER hear news about the honest folks, do we? And we never will. Thats the only reason the scammers seem so pervasive in society; honest, hard-working people just arent newsworthy. Again, for every Bernie Madoff there are thousands of honest investment managers working for brokers, banks (big and small), S&Ls, credit unions, and independently out there. So yes, I believeand I dare say that the numbers bear me outthat makes the Madoffs of the world rare.

But, ultimately, I think we both have the same goal: Whats best for the AMA and the Magic Castle, yes?

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby hscheie » April 28th, 2011, 5:08 pm

Dustin:
Absolutely!

The thing that bothers me the most about the new BOD dog and pony show is that the current BOD never bothered to ask the people who cared enough to actually "put their money where their mouth was" and run for the BOD at the last election, if they were interested in filling the vacancy. That would have been the first group I would have looked to as they already made both their desire and qualifications fully known. (disclaimer, I was one of the candidates and the only one with successful Bar and restaurant experience)

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 28th, 2011, 5:25 pm

Thats a whole differentand interestingconversation. This sort of came up last night among another guy and me. His view is that the person who received the next highest number of votes should have been given the seat. I questioned the legality of it, and he felt that it wouldnt be problematic (in a structure such as the AMAs).

But, since it was done the way it was, you probably should have tossed your hat into the ring again. Then you could have joined the rest of us that Alan Bursky was telling had no chance in hell of being selected! ;)

(The worst thing that could have happened was having the chance to hang out with Mal Cross, who was chatting with several of us for a while. That alone was worth the trip!)

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Terrence » April 28th, 2011, 5:43 pm

I'm not that keen on the idea Dustin, not as a fairness issue, but the fact that if the Membership knew then what the state of our finances were going to be now, there'd be a different makeup of the BOD already. (i.e. we might not have elected people who made poor / non-existent oversight judgments.)

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby hscheie » April 28th, 2011, 5:48 pm

Dustin:
My ideal candidate would be a magician member who ran/runs a hands on successful business (preferably service oriented) with multiple employees. We desperately need someone with this type of experience on the BOD. Unfortunately, I think Alan is right and they'll go with someone who won't rock the boat.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Terrence » April 28th, 2011, 6:30 pm

Well that would be a damned shame, because if that happens, then our boat could become a one-way submersible before too long.

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Re: The President of the Academy of Magical Arts RESIGNS

Postby Lisa Cousins » April 28th, 2011, 6:43 pm

Just Announced: Randy Sinnott!


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