I think this qualifies as magic porn

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 11th, 2010, 9:43 am

The objectification of females is what lacks class, not our discussion about it.
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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Kent Gunn » October 11th, 2010, 9:51 am

Damian,

I've got wit. I've got snark. I spent 20 years on a submarine surrounded by pornography. We literally had a smut locker. This is the sort of thing that is rampant in our society. Men like smut.

A very old joke goes like this . . .

"Do you guys have women on submarines?"

Sub sailor responds . . .

"Yeah, pages and pages of them."

The website that used the pretty girl to hawk a magic contest is smart in using a cute young lady to entice mostly young male magicians to respond.

I wasn't offended by Brad's categorizing it as pornography. He was using the word in a broad sense. (Damn unintentional puns) I've seen pornography, the worst/best in the world, that was not pornography. It wasn't even close.

Now . . .

Using the word pandering. That offended me. Some of my dearest friends are pimps. They would be truly offended if that completely innocent video was ascribed any of the virtues of their age-old profession.

I don't know if the young lady would be offended if she ran into this thread. I doubt it. She's hanging around with a bunch of young magicians. She undoubtedly has heard puerile, ill-intended humor.

Overall I think this thread is a little skanky though.

The lady is younger than my eldest granddaughter. She said nothing even vaguely untoward. Her dress was not especially indecorous. I think using words like pornography and pandering was in poor taste.

Everyone to their own lousy opinion.

KG

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Tim Ellis
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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Tim Ellis » October 11th, 2010, 10:57 am

Richard "The objectification of females is what lacks class, not our discussion about it."

Do you feel the video represents the objectification of females?

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Scott Fridinger » October 11th, 2010, 11:59 am

The fact that there was a girl, possibly a relative of someone at Murphy's or maybe just an employee (We don't know) brought about a discussion of people wanking it to her is classless.

This thread started with the imagery of a person masturbating to the girl, that was not needed. It was reinforced by Bill's comment about 3-4 posts down. That is what I am talking about.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby opie » October 11th, 2010, 12:01 pm

I have been to twenty-one countries (in back-alley clubs in many of them) and can honestly say that I do not believe that any people other than Taliban or far-right-wing Republicans would consider the video as anything other than an attractive young lady doing a pitch for magic tricks....

Take a trip to the next big car show convention you hear about....tsk tsk....or better yet, a swim-suit fashion show....

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 11th, 2010, 12:23 pm

"The fact that there was a girl, possibly a relative of someone at Murphy's or maybe just an employee (We don't know) brought about a discussion of people wanking it to her is classless."

Yes, but it's also probably true.

The girl seems to be nothing more than a "teen/dirty old man" outreach program. Why not have someone who actually knows magic or is respected by magicians be the spokesperson? Magicians would actually get something out of listening to Al Cohen or Denny Haney.

But that wasn't the choice they made. No, they brought in a girl who can barely read off her cue cards, represent her as someone who "hopes she gets the gig because she loves magic so submit a bunch of positive comments for me", and then put her in a top that is see through with a bra strap showing.

Now, why would someone do that?

To advance the art of magic?

To provide experienced and informed opinions, guidance and information to the community?

Or - is it just using sex (or at the very least sexuality) to sell?

Now look, I have no problem with either sex or using sex to sell. Booth babes are great. And if a magic company wants to use sex to sell, good for them.

But don't be surprised if people comment on the fact that you are using sex to sell.

With so many "visual artists" and "creators" who have never done a show in their life now in the role of "model" and "teacher" for the magic community, I ask "Is a pretty girl who can almost read off cue cards and doesn't mind letting people see part of her underwear a step up or just more evidence we are still tumbling into the abyss?"

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 11th, 2010, 1:22 pm

And for those who still want to believe that boys aren't thinking what they are thinking, here is the latest comment on one of her videos:

Comment by tommie klein on October 9, 2010 at 9:14am
cant we win a date with you?

Nope - not pandering at all. None of that here. Move along.

Comment by Bethany Halligan on October 1, 2010 at 7:03pm
i LOVE LOVE LOVE this! twilight zone is my favorite so i think its awesome you guys thought of it. Great job!


Teenboy1313 thinks to himself: "I wonder if I come up with an idea if she'll love love LOVE it and maybe go out with ME!!!!"

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Don Knox » October 11th, 2010, 2:29 pm

The girl is a few years older than my grandaughter. I watch Disney Channel with her when she is over. The girl in the video would not even raise an eyebrow in that market. She is a kid talking to other kids.

There is a point in your life when you shouldn't order the kid's meal anymore.

The interpretation that started this "skanky" thread is more telling about the interpreter than of his subject.

Just another lousy opinion.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby James Cotton » October 11th, 2010, 2:29 pm

"James, please start a new thread and regale us with YOUR wit if this one bothers you so much you felt you needed to post to say as much.

Show us silly billies what real proper grown up humour looks like.

We may learn something."


What did that girl do to have her name linked to a discussion of pornography in perpetuity? The internet is forever and whatever mealy mouthed [censored] excuses may get aired here, a lot of you have shown poor judgment and a lack of class.

Welcome to magic, ladies, a bastion of mid-twentieth century chauvinism, preserved in amber. No wonder this artform has a low reputation.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 11th, 2010, 2:56 pm

While I may be too old to order the kid's meal, does that mean I shouldn't be concerned about the diet being feed to the future of our community?

James, you lament what ladies will think when they join our community - is this "lady" a magician? What does she have to offer the magic community other than being a pretty girl? I mean, if she were a talented magician who also happened to be attractive I could see your point - but that's not what is going on here, is it?

You seem to be upset that people have called attention to the fact that Murphy's is using a pretty girl - who is not a magician - in order to sell their product to teens and men who are thinking of her as someone "to date" (see comment copied above). Is she just a "kid" talking to other kids? What does she have to offer them, exactly?

The South Park episode on the Jonas Brothers was brilliant. Disney uses sex to sell, and they got called out on it.

Kids talking to kids, yes?

And why a female kid? Why a non-magic kid? Aren't there enough young male magicians out there who could relate to the youth market? I mean, I think it would be great for a talented young female magician to be the face of magic - but this girl admits to not being a magician.

Tell me how this girl is anything other than using sex to sell.

How many of the people who see her posts are also thinking about "dating her?"

Good for magic? Good for her?

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Tim Ellis » October 11th, 2010, 4:02 pm

"And why a female kid? Why a non-magic kid? Aren't there enough young male magicians out there who could relate to the youth market?"

Sadly, at a magic club I used to belong to when I was growing up, the older magicians always preferred to see young male magicians for the very same purpose the original poster implied...

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 11th, 2010, 4:17 pm

Point taken - which brings me to my previous post of why not actually have someone who is established and knows what they are doing - an Al Cohen or Denny Haney?

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby mrgoat » October 11th, 2010, 5:22 pm

Feel free to start a new thread elevating this cesspit of dreadfulness to a level of morality you feel is suitable.

Or a new forum.

www.iammuchbetterthanyou.com is available

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 11th, 2010, 5:25 pm

Damien, to whom was that last post addressed?

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby David Alexander » October 11th, 2010, 6:58 pm

"...cesspit of dreadfulness..."

A nice turn of phrase, Damian.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 11th, 2010, 6:59 pm

Conjures images of Mos Eisley

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby JLong » October 12th, 2010, 7:43 am

Yes, this would hopefully put an end to the "fwapping".

Image

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 12th, 2010, 8:08 am

Nah, just start a round of whether Greelo had the fastest pass if not the fastest draw.
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on October 12th, 2010, 8:09 am, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: no comments about the cups and balls at that bar, please.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby James Cotton » October 12th, 2010, 3:33 pm

Oh. My aching sides.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brian Morton » October 13th, 2010, 9:10 am

Frankly, she's got pretty damn good delivery; I've seen a lot worse of people trying to give out that volume of information.

And if you want porn, I hear if you go to the Rio in Las Vegas, you can see "Two Old Guys, Three Cups."

brian :grin:

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby mrgoat » October 13th, 2010, 9:26 am

@Brad The comment was aimed at the very much better than us all put together Mr Cotton. Funny how he finds this thread so very abhorrent yet keeps not only reading it but also bumping it so it stays on the home page. One would think that when one doesn't like something, one would not read it. Cotton seems addicted to reading this, obviously enjoying how much better it makes him feel about his own Wilde-esque wit. Shame he hides this under a bushel though.

@Mr Morton - Two old guys, 3 cups = genius.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby James Cotton » October 13th, 2010, 11:28 am

Goat, when "one" sees stupid behavior, "one" feels compelled to point it out in an effort to maintain some sort of civilized discourse at what "one" thought was a site for adults, rather than saying nothing and just watching things descend to the level of some of the kiddies web forums.

I think you lack class and that you have disrespected this poor girl. You and like-minded oafs can be a smart ass about it all you want but it's clear quite few in this thread now have you and Brad well and truly pegged as childish chauvinists.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 13th, 2010, 12:28 pm

James -

I pointed out something - the use of a young girl to sell magic to teens and men - that I feel is classless, and you call ME classless.

You just pointed out something you feel is stupid - what should we call you?

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby James Cotton » October 13th, 2010, 12:42 pm

Yo didn't write this...?

"That sound you hear is not thousands of teenage magicians shuffling cards. Nope . . . not . . . shuffling . . . cards.

Favorite part "only thirty one days LOOONG."

That and the fact you can kinda see her bra, dude.

Magic rawks!"

You are so full of it, son. If you are going to be a vulgar oaf and defame this poor girl, at least be man enough to stand up and admit to it - and stop pretending after the fact you were making some higher point in a more subtle way.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Don Knox » October 13th, 2010, 1:05 pm

Bingo.

We could call James "Truthteller" but I don't think he would want it.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 13th, 2010, 1:09 pm

James Cotton writes:

Yo didn't write this...?

"That sound you hear is not thousands of teenage magicians shuffling cards. Nope . . . not . . . shuffling . . . cards.

Favorite part "only thirty one days LOOONG."

That and the fact you can kinda see her bra, dude.

Magic rawks!"

You are so full of it, son. If you are going to be a vulgar oaf and defame this poor girl, at least be man enough to stand up and admit to it - and stop pretending after the fact you were making some higher point in a more subtle way."



Wow - you may be the most obtuse person I have ever encountered on a forum - and that says a lot.

I will remove all irony and sarcasm and speak plainly for the subtlety impaired:

I think the idea of using a young girl - especially one who admits to not being a magician - to sell magic to teens and men is creepy. Why? Because I have seen how men act around women at magic clubs and magic meetings. I have also seen how magicians act on magic forums when someone who lists their sex as "female" join. It is like watching sharks circling for meat. I have been extremely outspoken about this, and have even written articles on this dynamic.

It troubles me that a magic company is using a young girl to sell magic, because she IS being viewed as an object of desire. Case in point, look at the young man who asked to win a date with her.

Need more proof - look at some of the threads on the cafe and other sites where females post.

In my mind, this is "magic porn." I know, it's not really porn. But for our field, it might as well be. This girl is being put into position as an object of desire. Boys/Men ARE having lustful thoughts about her (I don't know the age of the "date" commenter).

Now, James, you can try to spin some [censored] psycho babble about what you think I meant. And while it is clear I have gotten into your head (how many posts have you made about me recently) you clearly haven't gotten into mine.

Did I defame the girl?

No - I know nothing about her. I don't care to know anything about her. She, whomever she may be, is irrelevant.

While I cannot know for a fact, her video presence seems to be a calculated attempt to use sex and sexuality to sell you teens and magicians. And, that is not an unreasonable conclusion, anyone who has watched the development of the magic marketplace over the past few years (and is aware of the use of sex and sexuality to sell in other industries) can easily see that this is an easy and intentional jump to make. And, for the record, if someone were blatantly and outright using sex to sell in the magic industry, I would have less a problem with it than something pretending to be more subtle.

This is what I feel, and I really don't care if you agree with me or not. But I am going to write what I feel in the manner I want. and I don't care if you read it, or like it, or not. If my initial post conveyed the wrong meaning, then that is my fault. However, I think my follow ups pretty clearly and quickly clarified my position. I would have hoped the use of the words "dude" and "rawked" would have been enough to alert your sarcasm/irony meters, but that may have been assuming too much of you. I promise, I won't do that again.

I tend to believe that when people do things, they do so intentionally. Wardrobe is intentional. Casting is intentional. It leads us reasonably to consider intent and motivation.

I have drawn one conclusion.

you might not like it - but you're entitled to be wrong.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby James Cotton » October 13th, 2010, 1:11 pm

[img:center]http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/cool_story_bro_trollcat.jpg[/img]

The fact that you feel compelled to explain yourself at such length - even though you "don't care" whether anyone agrees - is telling.

If you had a clever point to make, next time perhaps you will be a little more mature about it and think carefully before you tarnish some person's name and image by linking them in perpetuity to the subject of pornography and inviting a swag of lame, oafish, retarded commentary from humour-handicapped morons.

You've linked this person to this subject but equally you've linked yourself to an incredibly selfish and thoughtless act.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 13th, 2010, 1:13 pm

lol cats - the recourse of the intelligentsia

James Cotton writes:

"The fact that you feel compelled to explain yourself at such length - even though you "don't care" whether anyone agrees - is telling.

If you had a clever point to make, next time perhaps you will be a little more mature about it and think carefully before you tarnish some person's name and image by linking them in perpetuity to the subject of pornography and inviting a swag of lame, oafish, retarded commentary from humour-handicapped morons.

You've linked this person to this subject but equally you've linked yourself to an incredibly selfish and thoughtless act."

I do care whether or not my point was made clearly. I do NOT care if you agree or like that point.

The manner in which I make my points are up to me to decide - not you. If you don't care for what I write or how I write it, please avail yourself of the ignore user function on this forum. See - problem solved.

And let us not forget that this girl, and Murphy's, willingly and conscientiously produced and placed their content onto the web - content which raises issues. And yes, one of those issues is using sex to sell by broadcasting images of young women who will be the object of the target market's desire.

Now, what words should we use to describe that? Porn seemed like a good one. And I stand by it.

Is it my fault she decided to be the "datable" object of desire that she clearly is to people viewing her videos? Is it wrong to want to discuss the fact that she is and what that says about our industry?

And in today's world of South Park and Family Guy is a masturbation joke really a sign of the impending apocalypse?

I thought it was funny. A couple of other people did too. you didn't.

That's ok - I think you can still find the Jack Benny show on videocassette.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby James Cotton » October 13th, 2010, 1:21 pm

"lol cats - the recourse of the intelligentsia"

I think you're done here. We've plumbed your depths, and I predict an endless reductio ad absurdum series of vacillations between pure sophistry and comments using words like "dude" and "lol". Fill your boots.

"L8R"

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Brad Henderson » October 13th, 2010, 1:36 pm

JAmes Cotton writes:

"lol cats - the recourse of the intelligentsia"

I think you're done here. We've plumbed your depths, and I predict an endless reductio ad absurdum series of vacillations between pure sophistry and comments using words like "dude" and "lol". Fill your boots.

"L8R"





Oh James, you're funny without even knowing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolcat

A lolcat (usually pronounced /ˈlɒlkt/ LOL-kat, sometimes el-oh-el cat) is an image combining a photograph of a cat with text intended to contribute humour. The text is often idiosyncratic and grammatically incorrect, and its use in this way is known as "lolspeak" or "kitty pidgin". "Lolcat" is a compound word of the acronymic abbreviation "LOL" and the word "cat".

It's cute when old people use the interweb. Are you on thefacebook, too?

laughing out loud on the floor while rolling,

Brad

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby IrishMagicNews » October 13th, 2010, 2:04 pm

Can you two guys carry on this nonsense through pm's please.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Jim Maloney » October 13th, 2010, 2:06 pm

Don't worry -- you won't have to see anymore of this for now. They've both been placed on a temporary ban.

-Jim
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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby T Baxter » October 13th, 2010, 2:35 pm

Brad:

I appreciate that you found the video in the link you supplied distasteful, but...

Hard to believe that you're just now discovering that sex has been used in magic advertising in overt, subtle and even subliminal ways. Check out this cover of Roterberg Catalogue No. 11, circa 1900 : http://forrestflanderscentral.typepad.c ... icago.html

Yes, it's an anachronism. Yes, it objectifies women to sell a product. The same is done with men. Sex sells in advertising. This isn't a new revelation.

In my old-fogey's (I'm 55) opinion, the girl in the link you provided dressed like many young girls dress today. She didn't show nearly as much as you'd see on any public beach, or at any junior-high prom. While I think it's a bit too mature a look for the young lady, it certainly doesn't evoke lustful thoughts in me or cause me to see it as anything other than the company she works for trying to appeal to other people her age.

Newsflash! -- Boys will want to "date" girls whether they wear see-through blouses or eskimo parkas. It's what they are wired to do.

When I was 7 I had a huge crush on the girl in the Easy-Bake Oven toy commercial. She was fully dressed, but that didn't stop my pre-pubescent fantasies from running amok. I just couldn't tell her how I felt, unlike today's internet Romeos who can comment immediately (and often inappropriately) on a video they see online.

By the way, the girl in the Easy-Bake Oven commercial, I later discovered, was a very young Cynthia Nixon, who went on to become one of the stars of Sex in the City (and an avowed Lesbian -- shows my insights into women as a 7-year-old!).

T. Baxter

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Bill Mullins » October 13th, 2010, 4:07 pm

T. Baxter said:

"I'm 55 . . .When I was 7 I had a huge crush on the girl in the Easy-Bake Oven toy commercial. . . . By the way, the girl in the Easy-Bake Oven commercial, I later discovered, was a very young Cynthia Nixon, who went on to become one of the stars of Sex in the City (and an avowed Lesbian -- shows my insights into women as a 7-year-old!)."

You were 7 48 years ago if my math is correct. Cynthia Nixon is only 44.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby T Baxter » October 13th, 2010, 11:47 pm

So her publicist says.

Okay, I've just checked (didn't know I was under oath here), and I was 10, not 7. Still pre-pubescent, though, for those who care. And I was mentally still 7.

Cynthia's publicist is still fudging her age.

T. Baxter

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby T Baxter » October 14th, 2010, 12:31 am

Just did some internet checking, and I may be wrong about Ms. Nixon being the star of my childhood fantasies.

The point of my post remains valid.

Back to magic.

T. Baxter

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 14th, 2010, 12:53 am

This is a dumb thread. The video is not "magic porn" and has no connection whatsoever to whatever Brad Henderson thinks "magic porn" might be.

The use of a female to sell stuff to males is an old and proven sales technique. No one cares what Brad Henderson thinks about it--the seller wants to sell stuff, that's all. Nothing wrong with that.

End of story.
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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby T Baxter » October 14th, 2010, 1:27 am

Agreed.

T. Baxter

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby David Alexander » October 14th, 2010, 11:39 am

"This is a dumb thread. The video is not "magic porn" and has no connection whatsoever to whatever Brad Henderson thinks "magic porn" might be.

The use of a female to sell stuff to males is an old and proven sales technique. No one cares what Brad Henderson thinks about it--the seller wants to sell stuff, that's all. Nothing wrong with that.

End of story.
******************

After 8 pages we end up with what I thought was obvious from the first post. Looks like the adults have won...finally.

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Re: I think this qualifies as magic porn

Postby Dustin Stinett » October 14th, 2010, 4:05 pm

If there are no objections, I will lock this thing.

If there are objections, keep them to yourself. I'm still locking this thing.


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