Are magic books losing collector value?

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Bill McFadden
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Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Bill McFadden » July 18th, 2010, 5:35 pm

Given the economy the last five or so years, do the treasure titles in our libraries sell for considerably less than we paid for them? For example, some of us are selling-off collectable titles because we can use the money. As a result, some books which once commanded big bucks become less expensive due to number of copies available.

Another aspect to this question, of course, are reprints. Had I been more patient in my acquisitiveness, (i.e. Five Points), I could have saved some dough.

These queries are prompted by what I may be perceiving as a trend over past few months, as well as by something I noticed yesterday. One of the most respected (if not the most respected) magic booksellers listed a copy of Charvet's "Alexander" (first edition, limit to 1000) for $60. That's at least $15 below original retail.

What do you think? What do you know?

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David Scollnik
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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby David Scollnik » July 18th, 2010, 9:25 pm

According to the article I provide the link to below, many collectible books have been increasing in value in leaps and bounds in recent years:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/books/th ... le1626416/

Some people I know who collect really rare, old magic books have indicated to me that prices are holding up. Of course, this is just anecdotal information so it may not mean anything much.

I'm not at all sure that any magic book published as recently as 5 to 10 years ago (like "Alexander") can fairly be described as being a collectible, even if it might be a limited edition.

I don't know the details about the Charvet book you found listed for sale. Are you sure that a copy truly was listed for sale, and that the listing was not in error? FWIW, I checked bookfinder.com and found a copy of the book there for about $190.

Frank Yuen
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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Frank Yuen » July 18th, 2010, 10:12 pm

I don't know about selling below their original retail cost but I keep a close eye on eBay and a lot of books no longer sell for what they used to garner just a year ago. As a for instance, a copy of 100 years of Magic Posters sold today for $31.00 when it used to regularly go for over $100. Same situation goes for Cards as Weapons, the Kaufman reprint of Greater Magic,The Mind and Magic of David Berglas and the Derren Brown, Frank Garcia and Tamariz books. All of them now sell for less than what they used to in recent times. I know eBay isn't the most respected place out there but it does show what some people are willing to pay. Perhaps Richard Hatch can chime in?

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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Richard Hatch » July 18th, 2010, 11:48 pm

I haven't been active on eBay as a buyer or seller for about two years now. My model selling there (99 cents with no reserve) had been working very well (fetching prices "above market") until the economy tanked. Speaking with other booksellers, the model that seems to be effective for them is the fixed price buy it now sale.
The magic auction houses (Martinka, Potter & Potter, KTMgic) still seem to be fetching good prices though I haven't followed it closely...

Ted M
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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Ted M » July 19th, 2010, 12:31 am

"Context is everything."

- Opening sentence to Motherless Brooklyn, by Jonathan Lethem

Some contextual things to consider:

- Seasonal price fluctuations: eBay goes soft in the summertime. People are outside, on vacation and generally away from their computers. It's a fantastic time to pick up bargains.

- The economy stinks right now. Sellers are willing to settle for less because they need immediate cash, and there's less competition among buyers because many people can't spare the cash for a hobby interest.

- The second edition of the Alexander book added 50 pages, nearly a 25% increase. Content-wise, the first edition is now markedly inferior, and demand has adjusted accordingly. Similarly notice the steep drop in prices of other first editions when new expanded editions have been published: Walter Jeans Illusioneer, Variations Revisited, et al. Most (certainly not all, but most) of the people in our tiny niche market generally desire the books' content more than they fetishize their statistical attributes (first edition, etc).

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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Joe Mckay » July 19th, 2010, 1:41 pm

I love magic books. And to be honest - I think it is a good thing when prices fall for collectable magic books. I don't mind first editions of Erdnase (and what not) going for crazy prices. Since the information is easily available elsewhere. But for things like Greater Magic, the Berglas book and The Castle Notebooks - I think it is better for magic that these great books are available for those who want to study them. As opposed to creating a situation where people buy, sell and hoard the books just so they can store them on a shelf and wait for the bubble to inflate a bit more.

I think collectors do alot of good when it comes to preserving really old magic. But I do find it annoying (and I am sure many others do) when they try and make a buck out of recently out-of-print books. I don't think that is a healthy situation - and I speak on behalf of many students who hopes that more magic book prices fall so that more great books that are now out-of-print become available at fairer prices...

This isn't an attack on anyone. Just a different take on things...

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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Kamal » July 19th, 2010, 8:31 pm

Bill McFadden wrote:One of the most respected (if not the most respected) magic booksellers listed a copy of Charvet's "Alexander" (first edition, limit to 1000) for $60. That's at least $15 below original retail.

What do you think? What do you know?


I may not be right on this, but I'm pretty sure that Alexander was limited to 500 copies, before a second edition was made (another 500 copies), making a total of 1000 over two editions.

I've seen plenty of collectable books sell for under original list price. Aside from supply and demand, I think quality and condition plays a big part.

I've been trying to find a decent copy of Swami Mantra for a while now. Sure there are plenty out there, but none in the condition that I want.

I even had someone offer it to me (without a dust-jacket) for US$25. I still passed.

Bill McFadden
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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Bill McFadden » July 20th, 2010, 2:10 pm

Thank you, gents, for your input. They provide clarity and confirmation on what I expressed in my original query.

David Skollnic, here's the link to the listing for Alexander:

http://www.byronwalkermagicbooks.com/magic.html

Ted M, I'm not so sure I would equate bibliophilia with fetishism, but who knows nowadays? Context is everything, as you so aptly pointed out. I do, however, most certainly agree that content is the first priority. Nevertheless, there is a certain pride (?) in having, for example, all of Al Baker's output in first editions - some of them signed.

For years, I have believed that in our small world, a coveted magic book would never be worth less than what one paid for it. Today, I'm not so sure.

Another factor to consider will be articulated in the form of a statement made to me by a well-known magic auctioneer, "Everybody who wants one has one."
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Reason: Too stupid to post a link correctly

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BlueEyed Videot
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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby BlueEyed Videot » July 20th, 2010, 4:25 pm

I definitely think the market is tanking. I normally keep a close eye on eBay for "collectible" books and between the reprints, new editions, and rumors, it's a buyer's market.

Not too long ago, Andruzzi's "Scroll of Masklyn ye Mage" was selling for $1,500. About a week ago, a scroll on eBay couldn't even fetch an opening bid of $700. Is that due to recession, or to the expectation that it may soon(?) be reprinted by the owner of the Andruzzi copyrights George Robinson of Viking/Collector's Workshop?

From George's website: "BIG NEWS: We are in the last stages of finalizing the Andruzzi Book. This will contain all four of Tony's books in one, the Daemon's Diary, The Necromicon of Masklyn Ye Mage, The Legendary Scroll of Masklyn Ye Mage and Grimoire of the Mage's. The original books sell in the hundreds if not thousands for the set. This will be a first-class production, which is no less that what Tony's work demands."

I imagine once the book hits print, the value of the original scroll will recover most (if not all) of its selling price due to its novelty factor alone. There are, after all, only so many original scrolls in existence.

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Kevin Connolly
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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Kevin Connolly » July 20th, 2010, 4:40 pm

I wouldn't bet on the Scroll returning to the $1,500 level. Once a book is reprinted, it affects the first edition prices too.

Two angles haven't been covered here yet, unless I missed it. One is the "Hot" factor. Certain books get "hot" for one reason or another after they are published. Just look at the Gardner book Encyclopedia, New Magic Of Japan, the Regal book etc. They have/had their day, but other books come under the microscope and they become hot too. It's a cycle.

Another factor is that not enough new blood is coming in for the historical/collectible books. Just take for instance Hoffmann books. They were as good as gold for the longest time. Now, not so much. All the collectors have their copies of Hoffmann and then some. Without the new collector/historian coming into the market, prices will drop.
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Ted M
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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Ted M » July 20th, 2010, 5:36 pm

Categorization can affect matters on eBay.

The Scroll was only listed in "Magician Memorabilia, Ephemera". If anyone was only watching the "Books, Lecture Notes" category they could've easily missed it completely.

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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » July 21st, 2010, 1:47 pm

There's no doubt the economy has effected the casual buyer but I know as a collector that I've bought collectors Editions of three new titles this month alone. I bought the titles for the content but the collectors editions for the collect-ability.

BTW the new Ron Wilson book is a great read!

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Brad Henderson
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Re: Are magic books losing collector value?

Postby Brad Henderson » July 21st, 2010, 2:24 pm

Magic books (and magic in general) experienced a bubble.
Bubbles pop.

For a great read on the dynamic (and it applies very much to those who bought magic as investment at the height of the bubble) I recommend Crisis Economics by Nouriel Roubini and Stephen Mihm.


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