Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

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SteveP
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby SteveP » January 12th, 2010, 2:55 pm

Brandon Hall wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:I actually believe that Siegfried and Roy would have attained stardom with or without the wild cats.

Sigfreid, perhaps


S&R had a great dove act which I think they continued to do through their run at The Stardust. Add to that their showmanship to bring excitement to the illusions. They had several untouchable routines, like the sub trunk and their levitation, sawing, asrah routine. Siegfried knew how to sell an effect and he also had the charisma to go in one and do a simple salt vanish.

Even though they had a cat come out of the trunk, the routine stood on it's own without the cat. And just adding cats to a show doesn't put you in the same league as S&R which is evident with all the imitators. None of these other guys come close to what S&R did.

The cats helped them stand out in the early days because no one else was doing what they did. But they also had the duo-factor working for them. Not many great duo magic acts.

S&R came along at the right time with the right act. But that was over 40 years ago when they were starting to make a name. That is what all these other guys are copying. This is almost a continuation from the "Vegas doesn't need another magic show thread", but guys who are doing illusions with cats are doing what S&R did 30 - 40 years ago and haven't done anything to differentiate themselves from S&R in 1975.

SteveP
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby SteveP » January 12th, 2010, 2:57 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Hey, i'd settle for cute mini rabits that only grow as large as mice.


Would you settle for micro pigs?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleashed/2009/10/teacup-pigs-micropigs.html

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 12th, 2010, 3:03 pm

Thanks, will hold out for rabbits one can use as cup loads.
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Silly Walter
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Silly Walter » January 14th, 2010, 1:15 am

I am not a big fan of using exotic animals for entertainment purposes. I am actually surprised that more people haven't been attacked. The people that have them for pets really need to get their head examined.

If the magicians currently working with exotic animals would switch to using topless wimmins, the shows would be far more entertaining. Plus, I doubt if most of the audience would mind if the topless wimmins escaped from the stage and ran into the crowd. It might even make Chris Angel's show worth seeing.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 14th, 2010, 10:49 am

hmm... "... wearing nothing but rabbit ears, manes, some sprayed on stripes the appearing wildlive caused much excitement" - could work IMHO.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 14th, 2010, 11:50 am

"wimmins"?
Walter, have you been reading Lil' Abner again?
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Edward
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Edward » January 14th, 2010, 6:28 pm

Everything else that is non-tiger (including us) is considered dinner. Those who forget that are vulnerable to the forces of Natural Selection themselves


Funny line.

In a documentary I watched in the past It showed how circus performers mistreated the elephants, beating them on the head with 2x4s and useing grappling hooks on them.

I two do not approve of useing animals in shows of any kind.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 14th, 2010, 9:14 pm

I cant see or even think of tigers without hearing (in my head) the Bozo Dog Doo-Dah Bands song, Hunting Tigers.

"They bite/they scratch/they make an awful fuss"

Bill Mullins
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Bill Mullins » January 15th, 2010, 1:05 am

Steve Pellegrino wrote: Wild cats are having a harder time in the wild because of us, not because of nature.


We aren't making it easier, agreed, but wild animals don't have it easy regardless. I remember a line from an Ernest Thompson Seton book I read as a kid -- "Wild animals do not die of old age." They get sick, they starve, they get eaten, they get killed by a younger animal establishing dominance, they freeze, they die of thirst. Mother nature is mean and has no kindness.

I believe there are more tigers alive in captivity in the U.S. than there are in the wild in Asia.

David Alexander
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby David Alexander » January 15th, 2010, 1:19 am

To support what Bill posted above, the New York Times back in 2002 reported that there were an estimated 4,000 to 7,000 tigers in Siberia and the rest of Asia, but around 10,000 in private hands in the US, "dwarfing the 200 or so kept by zoos for display and species propagation."

The Times also reported back then that tigers were breeding so rapidly in captivity that the price of a cub dropped from $2500 in the late 1990s to $350.

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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 15th, 2010, 11:37 am

My G*d! at that price you'd worry they were being sold for furs and soup!

Somehow I doubt there's any sensible/humane reason for most people to buy a tiger cub.

** on a related note - the thought of using predatory animals to manage the deer population has some appeal.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 15th, 2010, 11:46 am

Jon, that's really not well thought out. The deer population is an issue in areas where there are lots of humans! I don't think letting tigers run through suburbia eating the excess deer is a good choice.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Brad Henderson » January 15th, 2010, 12:14 pm

but it would make for good tv

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 15th, 2010, 12:17 pm

I was thinking more about the animals which ordinarily eat deer.
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby SteveP » January 15th, 2010, 1:16 pm

David Alexander wrote:The Times also reported back then that tigers were breeding so rapidly in captivity that the price of a cub dropped from $2500 in the late 1990s to $350.


I don't know if there is a rating system for quality of tiger, but back in the 80's I knew breeders that would sell you a tiger for less than $500. The cost of the cat is reasonable, it's the cost of keeping that cat that's expensive.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 15th, 2010, 1:21 pm

I would imagine that the steak alone would bankrupt most people.
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Pete McCabe
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Pete McCabe » January 15th, 2010, 1:26 pm

Any animal that eats deer is not likely to be welcome in populated areas.

That said, I would definitely watch a show where they take the network executives who program reality tv and trap them in a deserted town with several hungry tigers.

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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 15th, 2010, 2:04 pm

? the audience would be rooting for the tigers. Like a Meerkat Manor but where the heroes clean up vermin who litter primetime and pollute the public with programs like...
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Reason: any suggestions for celebrity voices for the cats?

David Alexander
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby David Alexander » January 15th, 2010, 2:11 pm

Steve Pellegrino wrote:
David Alexander wrote:The Times also reported back then that tigers were breeding so rapidly in captivity that the price of a cub dropped from $2500 in the late 1990s to $350.


I don't know if there is a rating system for quality of tiger, but back in the 80's I knew breeders that would sell you a tiger for less than $500. The cost of the cat is reasonable, it's the cost of keeping that cat that's expensive.


Absolutely. The Times article I quotes went on to say "Experts say it costs about $3,600 to feed a tiger commercial large cat food for a month."

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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby David Alexander » January 15th, 2010, 2:13 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
** on a related note - the thought of using predatory animals to manage the deer population has some appeal.


Great idea. Let's start in Westchester, NY and see how it goes.

Jon, please leave your back gate open.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 15th, 2010, 2:44 pm

"...Hunting tigers can be ripping fun
Like three blind mice/see the hunters run..."

SteveP
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby SteveP » January 15th, 2010, 4:35 pm

"Domestic" tigers are typically fed a couple of whole chickens, bought in bulk from a poultry distributor and a special not for human consumption ground beef mix. I seem to remember the beef was in 5 pound tubes and was a mix of cow and horse meat. It's also fed to race dogs. I just remember it being very bloody and smelly.

The tigers ate the whole chicken - bones and all.

Reading the article that started this post, it seems the guy was killed when he went into the cage to feed the tiger. We never went into the cage. You just throw the food in and run like hell!

While calm most of the time, their wild tendencies come out when it's feeding time.

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IrishMagicNews
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Re: Another Reason Not to Keep Tigers

Postby IrishMagicNews » January 15th, 2010, 8:27 pm

Steve Pellegrino wrote:The tigers ate the whole chicken - bones and all.

Reading the article that started this post, it seems the guy was killed when he went into the cage to feed the tiger. We never went into the cage. You just throw the food in and run like hell!



Funny you mention that, I was in Dublin zoo at the tail end of the summer and stumbled upon a press call for some baby cubs that were recently born. While the press call was going on the zoo keepers were throwing full chickens over the 15ft high glass barrier. So even keepers, who work with these animals every day, don't go into their cages.

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