The Genii Forum

Look at photos 6 and 7:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/galler ... =355509828

Damn! And 12, too:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/galler ... =355509840

Youch!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/galler ... =355509850

More painful than watching members of the magic circle perform.

People do anything to get on this forum .

I hope he doesn't RUN with those! (photo 12)

I know what he's thinking..."Those sissy magicians with one spike hidden under a paper cup!"

I think they are prefacing each feat by muttering, "phuket, I'm going for it"...hence the title of the festival

#12 is the worst cultural mutlilation i've ever seen.
BME doesn't even show anything like that!

12 will keep me in nightmares for quite a while. *shudders*

I think that's Todd Robbins's act!

re: #12 - I think it's a shame that no one checked this kids' Halloween candy before he bit into it.

"You can't fix stupid" Ron White

re:#12 - Edward Scissorcheek.

Do they have some kind of slogan about "only real men have what it takes to go vegetarian" there?

No wonder they are vegetarians. The cows were smart enough to get the hell out of there.

I am not an expert in this area - but I thought I had read that it is perfectly safe to walk across hot coals. Something about the coals being hot but the rate at which they transfer that heat as being quite low. So - if you walk at a steady calm speed you should be okay. Also - this stunt is usually done at night where the glowing red coals look even hotter than they do during the day...

Am I right or should I just stick to card tricks?

Joe

Joe, don't ask anyone else if you're right: you go straight to the supermarket and buy a nice big bag of charcoal briquettes. Light 'em up, get 'em nice and red hot, and then take a walk over them--then let us know if it works.

And if you burn your feet don't blame me because I think ANYONE who walks over hot coals or broken glass should be dragged away to the psychiatric facility.

Joe Mckay wrote:I am not an expert in this area - but I thought I had read that it is perfectly safe to walk across hot coals. Something about the coals being hot but the rate at which they transfer that heat as being quite low. So - if you walk at a steady calm speed you should be okay. Also - this stunt is usually done at night where the glowing red coals look even hotter than they do during the day...

Am I right or should I just stick to card tricks?

Joe

"Fire walking" is not a trick, just applied physics. It is done on wood embers - not coals or charcoal briquettes. It relies on the fact that wood is a poor conductor of heat. If you bake a cake in the oven at 350 degrees the air in the oven, the cake pan, and the cake will all be the same temperature.

The air will not quickly burn your hand as it is a poor conductor of heat. The metal pan will burn you as it is a good conductor while the cake will take time to burn your hand. Think of the burning wooden embers as similar to the cake. You can walk on the embers if you walk steadily and without pause. Most firewalks are four to six steps long and people traverse them rapdily with a steady pace.

Some years back a self-help guru made buckets of money by convincing people that if they chanted "cool moss" and hyped themselves up they too could "walk across fire." Truth be told, they could do it without the expensive weekend seminar or chanting anything.

Actually I got a red-hot coal wedged between my toes once. Granted, it was a blazing campfire and I was drunk. The soles of my feet were fine though.
Yes, I'm an idiot.

Acrually, Luis de Matos' new DVD set, "Extreme" deals with stunts like walking on coals. Not cheap at $190 for 4 DVDs. Not recommended as a Christmas present for your nephew, little Timmy.

Matt Field

Thanks for the responses!

Does anyone know the physics behind walking on broken glass?

Joe

PS About two years ago I was out drinking with some friends. It was quite late - about 11pm. In the town square some people were performing the stunt of walking across burning embers. I was really tempted to have ago myself. I even explained to my friends that I had learnt from magic books that the stunt is safe. I didn't go through with it (not sure if I would have being allowed anyway). But - I look back on that moment as being a missed opportunity for a James Bond level of coolness. A chance to just step up to the plate and look like 'the man!'

Joe Mckay wrote:Thanks for the responses!

Does anyone know the physics behind walking on broken glass?

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/physics_b ... strations/

Cheers!

Joe

David Alexander wrote:Some years back a self-help guru made buckets of money by convincing people that if they chanted "cool moss" and hyped themselves up they too could "walk across fire." Truth be told, they could do it without the expensive weekend seminar or chanting anything.

David,

You're thinking of Tony Robbins. It was part of his 'Unlimited Power' weekend seminar. I don't know if he still does it or not.

Terry wrote:I don't know if he still does it or not.

Oh he still extorts fortunes from people by telling them they are great etc.

mrgoat wrote:Oh he still extorts fortunes from people by telling them they are great etc.

That is inflammatory and slanderous to make a claim he is extorting/stealing money.

The people who attend his seminars may be gullible, but it is their choice to spend their money the way they want to.

Sort of like people attending magic conventions and buying the latest fad trick.

The goat is a trifle cynical. He should have been a grafter. We are the most cynical of all the professions. Probably because we sell rubbish to the public on a regular basis. Not always. Sometimes the products are good but 50% of the time they aren't.

As for Tony Robbins I think he may well have been a grafter himself in the past except that we don't smile as much as he does.

In fact now that I think about it very few grafters smile. It is because we have to deal with the verminous public all the time. When you have a crowd around you all day full of the unwashed masses it does tend to make you a little miserable at times. Try it for more than a month and you will soon see what I am talking about.

I still remember mild mannered Val Andrews frothing at the mouth and snarling at an American tourist who was a bit slow in picking a card. He went quite nuts and of course more nuts when he saw me grinning at the incident. Grafting does that to you.

Methinks Val would have done well to take the Tony Robbins course to motivate himself more and be enthusiastic about his work.

Mark,

Since you place yourself in the company of folks like Bernie Madoff, who stole money from people he'd convinced of his honesty, why should we perceive this as a good thing?

Granted Bernie was far more successful than you in bilking innocents. Madoff's victims were victims because they were greedy. I don't see why you would wish to be seen as a heartless, souless bastard. Do you really think there is nothing bad about being a grafter?

I can't tell if you've invented this dark side or not. If you find us, the unwashed public so verminous, why are you here among us?

KG

Terry wrote:

mrgoat wrote:Oh he still extorts fortunes from people by telling them they are great etc.

That is inflammatory and slanderous to make a claim he is extorting/stealing money.

The people who attend his seminars may be gullible, but it is their choice to spend their money the way they want to.

Sort of like people attending magic conventions and buying the latest fad trick.

No, it's nothing like that at all. People by magic tricks they want. With Robbins he CONS people and sneakily upsells the needy and stupid ridiculously overpriced quasi-training.

He is a despicable snake oil peddler. IMHO, as ever.

Kent. I most certainly don't put myself in the company of Bernie Madoff. After all I have never been caught yet. And I do have a certificate of character from the police to prove it.

You ask why if I think the public are so verminous am I among you? I would have thought the answer was perfectly obvious. To take your money of course.

And I do agree that grafters are the scum of the earth. That is why I like them so much. However methinks that Kent is going through a language crisis and is mistaken in the meaning of the word "grafter". After all he is an American and may well be confusing the word "grafter" and the word "grifter"

Some grafters are indeed grifters but the vast majority of grifters are not grafters. If Kent understands the foregoing sentence that will mean that he knows the difference betweeen a grafter and a grifter. If as is more likely he doesn't know the difference I shall leave it for him to figure out as an intellectual exercise for him. As I advised him previously he won't appreciate the knowledge if it is given to him on a plate. If he put a bit of time into figuring it out then he will gain more benefit from the knowledge. Besides I can't be bothered explaining it all right now.

I shall however give him a clue. Bernie Madoff was certainly a grifter but never a grafter. I am on the other hand a grafter but only some of the time a grifter and then only in a comparitively minor way.

I can assure you that I am no more criminal than anyone on this forum. The only difference is that of the rest of you haven't been caught either. If I am asked if every single person on this forum including Kent is as innocent as the driven snow and has never done a dishonest thing in their lives then all I can do is ask the following question.

"Have you heard the one about the three bears?"

I well remember in my youth visiting a corrrection facility for
juvenile offenders in Great Britain. I was there as part of an amateur entertainment troupe sent in to entertain the inmates for a special occasion. I did a magic act in the show. The leader of the troupe was Greville Janner who now sits in the British House of Lords and I dread to say it is a member of that awful magic club known as wait for it----The Magic Circle. In those days, however he hadn't started magic as a hobby yet.

He told the entire troupe, "Now don't look down on the people in here. The only difference between you and them is that you haven't been caught yet"

I dare say that applies to some of the goody two shoes here as well.

And if you want to know what makes me a "heartless soulless bastard" then try selling svengali decks to the verminous public for years on end and you will soon find out.

I remember one chap who did not have to wait for years. I actually saw it happen in one week.

He did a week's work for me. At the start of the week he was smiling and wishing everyone a nice day which I found very odd since although I don't say it I silently wish everyone the most horrible day they can imagine. I really hate that insincere North American expression anyway since I know the person wishing it couldn't care less if I walked under a bus. If anyone wishes me a nice day I always snarl at them and inform them, "Sorry I have other plans"

But to get back to the very polite chap that was smiling and wishing everyone a nice day. He was full of love for the public and didn't consider them vermin at all. However at the end of the week it was a far different story. He was still wishing everyone a nice day but he was no longer smiling. Snarling would be a better word. Nasty, irritated and aggressive and when he wished people a nice day he virtually spat the words out with great venom. I was greatly amused at the time to see the transformation.

It was rather a long time ago. You may have heard of this young man. His name was Jay Sankey.

Mark,

I've read your post where you discussed the term grafter. There's a gentlemanly discussion of it here from the Urban Dictionary.

A Grafter is a person who sets his stall out and proceeds to market trade with whatever currency is availble and it doesn't have to be money. A creative person who is capable of turning a blank canvass into a masterpiece and not frightened to Graft to achieve the required aim, to put food on the table. Rarely will you see a true Grafter in a JOB ( Just Over Broke )because they are to busy Grafting A Free Enterprise Freelance Entreprenure Freedom Fighter who lives to work. A chancer. A Grafter controls his own destiny. The honourable profession of Grafting is a way of life. To be a Grafter you need to be self motivated a go-getter.

I'm pretty sure I knew what it meant. I was simply poking you. I am the scum of the earth, Mark. I sit happily on one of the lowest rungs of society. I was an enlisted servicman for years. Few social strata are any lower. The public raves about the lads in uniform now. They spit on me in airports, when I wore crackerjacks. The public never understands those who choose their own, non-conventional paths. I chose to muck about on a submarine, you chose your world of grafting. We'd drink beer in the same houses of ill-repute.


I do think Glenn is a twit though. He's a good magician. I've seen him perform. Your observation about his likeability is quite true. I'm glad you're looking after him. The next time he says something nasty about one of my pals, I can argue with you about it, instead of sifting through Jack Pyle references and horrid shuffling displays posted again and again and again.

Thanks for playing here on the Genii forum. I really appreciate your insight and I still owe you much for your lucid comments on a Busking forum.

A fan and a fellow malcontent.

KG

A grafter is what is known in North America as a pitchman. I detest that silly word "pitchman". The word is GRAFTER. But yet in the UK there is a different type of grafter which you don't get in North America. And he is called a "market pitcher" just to confuse matters.

Most grafters come under the classification of "demonstrators" in normal language and thank God that word means the same in both the UK and in North America. However in Britain the market grafter or what is knows as a "pitcher" is a special breed. I haven't the energy to describe what makes the Market Pitcher different from the normal type of grafter but the full description is contained on Colin Clark and Trevor Pinch's wonderful book, "The Hard Sell". Professor Clark has put in very brief appearances on the Genii forum in the past and was kind enough to send me a computer version of his book.

Since I hate reading books on a computer I purchased the book anyway from Abe Bookshops. It is a great book. Professor Clark mentioned to me that I knew a lot of the people he knew.

Yep. Scum of the earth would certainly describe them especially the run out workers who are looked down on even by other relatively more respectable grafters.