Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

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52facination
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby 52facination » June 22nd, 2009, 3:16 pm

Tower is still in business, they just don't need to pay leases anymore.

Tower got in trouble for doing the same thing magicpiracy.org is starting to do with the FTC. If James Clark keeps doing what he's claiming he'll have a huge fine coming his way from Uncle Sam. For Tower it was an accident, for James Clark it's intentional, and best I can gather is a 11,000 dollar fine for every post of private information as civil penalty. Tower also had poor management and couldn't hold a candle to the discounted places like Wal-Mart and Best Buy. I shopped Tower, but as I recall they were the most expensive store in the land. It was fairly common to pick up an 18 dollar CD I could go down the road and get for 12.

Tower made many mistakes. It's far from a piracy thing. Comparing the music to the magic industry is apples and oranges. Madonna makes like 75 million a year. Siegfried and Roy in their prime were about 50 million, and magicians in that cozy a situation is rare to say the least. Rich pop stars are a dime a dozen. Most of the most talented magicians the world has ever known worked full time in grocery stores, or some very modest blue collar job. Can't compare.

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mrgoat
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2009, 3:49 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:
mrgoat wrote: to blame imagined piracy of jazz music via P2P for the closure of Tower Records is silly at best.


I guess it's a coincidence that as Kazza, Limewire, and torrents increased in popularity Tower went out of business?


Um, yes.

Do you have evidence to prove otherwise?

Have you even looked to find any jazz on demonoid or the piratebay or any of the others?

If you want "the best of miles", then fine. anything other than mainstream popular michael buble sort of jazz then you're bang out of luck.

The problem with your theory, you see, is that jazz aficionados are not file sharing on P2P sites. They want decent quality, proper releases. Not some [censored] compressed MP3.

So, piracy of jazz is not to blame for the closure of Tower Records brick and mortar stores.

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mrgoat
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2009, 3:56 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:How many ipods would have been sold if people could only PURCHASE music for it?


Um, the whole point of the ipod was the simple integration with the iTunes Music Store, so finally legal downloading of music was easy, quick, and simple.

M. Yandorf wrote:Steve Wozniak and Jobs are benefiting from illegal p2p.


Citation needed. That's some claim. And Woz stopped working for Apple many many years ago.


M. Yandorf wrote:How many people would purchase Comcast or Fios if not for p2p? Do normal computer users really need 16Mb/s for anything besides downloading massive files?


Of course not. They use the fast connections (I have 20Mb/s) to get large files quickly. You do realise, that not all large files are illegal right? I work from home and have to up and download large video files and picture folders all day long. All of it perfectly legal.

To suggest people only need a fast pipe because they are pirates is as silly as saying jazz piracy is to blame for tower records closing their stores.

I am not even sure if you are just a troll as the points you are making are so silly.

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 4:27 pm

mrgoat wrote:
So, piracy of jazz is not to blame for the closure of Tower Records brick and mortar stores.





I never said, "piracy of jazz." There is very little jazz piracy especially compared to rock and country.
I said:
- p2p let to Tower's problems
- Tower stores are closed
- Blue note, verve, Fantasy Jazz, ect... no longer have a store to sell their goods

This leads to an aweful situation:
- Very little good jazz on p2p
- No stores to purchase a wide jazz selection

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 4:31 pm

Evidence that P2P lead to the demise of Tower:

Here's a wiki quote:
Tower Records entered bankruptcy for the first time in 2004. Factors cited were the heavy debt incurred during its aggressive expansion in the 1990s, growing competition from mass discounters, and internet piracy.[3]


Here's another source from CBS News:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/ ... 9008.shtml
The article reads:
"The filing is expected to help clear the way for selling the 93-store chain that suffered from rapid changes in the music business, especially the exploding popularity of downloading music for free from the Internet. "

Here's another article which sites p2p as causing Tower's problems:
http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/s ... ily22.html

There are many other articles about how p2p closed Tower's stores, just do a simple internet search.

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 4:34 pm

Now I ask all you p2p enthusiasts an open question:

How will p2p benefit the magic DVD industry?
Go ahead, support your case. Tell me how bootleging will improve the state of magic instructional videos. I'd really like to know how stealing will help.

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 4:39 pm

mrgoat wrote:
M. Yandorf wrote:Steve Wozniak and Jobs are benefiting from illegal p2p.


Citation needed. That's some claim.


No citation is need, ask anyone who has an ipod, but if you insist here you go:
http://weblog.ipcentral.info/archives/2 ... acy_1.html

"The amount of downloading from file-sharing networks is roughly double what it was two years ago when iTunes started."

And another:
http://management.silicon.com/itdirecto ... 844,00.htm
"Apple slammed for piracy-fuelling iPod"

Richard Stokes
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Richard Stokes » June 22nd, 2009, 4:51 pm

Don't lynch me straightaway, but here's a provocative and paradoxical thought:
a) Piracy is just another extreme version of the American 'free market' ( if something is cheaper elsewhere, just take advantage of it and ditch any pretence at ethical principles).
b) Piracy is a welcome challenge to the free market.( By undermining the revenues of the uber-rich.)

Do you remember Abbie Hoffman's Steal This Book? There was something gloriously romantic about this anarchistic yippie paperback. I was a rebellious teenager at the time, but I kinda liked the idea of concealing record albums in pizza boxes.
Ah, times have changed. You don't even have to nick the book anymore. It's now available for free on-line.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 22nd, 2009, 4:55 pm

Well Mr Stokes if you want to go down that road then perhaps folks should also be happy knowing that their items are inspiring the next generation of those who will soon be looking to acquire fame and fortune in our market by selling things - and advancing our craft in the process. A win/win of sorts. Ah progress...

Hey there's a hole in my dollar bill. Where did that come from? ;)
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 5:16 pm

Richard Stokes wrote:Piracy is just another extreme version of the American 'free market' ( if something is cheaper elsewhere, just take advantage of it


????? What?
Piracy is not part of the legitimate free market just ask the Somali National Petroleum Company (SNPC).

Don't you care if publishers can recoup their costs so they can make more DVD's?
Don't you want artists to be paid a fair price for providing instruction?

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jim Maloney » June 22nd, 2009, 5:21 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:
mrgoat wrote:
M. Yandorf wrote:Steve Wozniak and Jobs are benefiting from illegal p2p.


Citation needed. That's some claim.


No citation is need, ask anyone who has an ipod, but if you insist here you go:
http://weblog.ipcentral.info/archives/2 ... acy_1.html

"The amount of downloading from file-sharing networks is roughly double what it was two years ago when iTunes started."


Mr. Garland thinks it would be a mistake to blame Apple for profiting from piracy, because file-sharing was flourishing years before Apple introduced the iPod. "If you need a bogeyman, and the entertainment industry always needs a bogeyman, the best I can offer is the 21st century," he says.


And another:
http://management.silicon.com/itdirecto ... 844,00.htm
"Apple slammed for piracy-fuelling iPod"

...by one of Apple direct competitors in the digital music business.

-Jim
Books and Magazines for sale -- more than 200 items (Last updated January 10th, 2014. Link goes to public Google Doc.)

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mrgoat
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2009, 5:41 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:Evidence that P2P lead to the demise of Tower:

Here's a wiki quote:
Tower Records entered bankruptcy for the first time in 2004. Factors cited were the heavy debt incurred during its aggressive expansion in the 1990s, growing competition from mass discounters, and internet piracy.[3]


Here's another source from CBS News:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/ ... 9008.shtml
The article reads:
"The filing is expected to help clear the way for selling the 93-store chain that suffered from rapid changes in the music business, especially the exploding popularity of downloading music for free from the Internet. "

Here's another article which sites p2p as causing Tower's problems:
http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/s ... ily22.html

There are many other articles about how p2p closed Tower's stores, just do a simple internet search.


Are you serious?

"Tower Records fell to its final bankruptcy at the end of 2006, the victim of peer-to-peer file sharing"

That's your citation?

Where is the evidence? The proof?

You state, as black and white, that the piracy of (specifically Jazz) led to the demise of Tower Records. However you can find no evidence to back this up.

Please, I know you are probably new to google, but try and actually find some EVIDENCE. Citing a source that has no proof or research to back up a nonsense claim is pointless.

Why is Tower the only large music chain to suffer at the hands of these evil pirates?

Surely if piracy was the root, then all music stores would be closed.

It couldn't, possibly, by any chance, just be another mismanaged company run by idiots could it?

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mrgoat
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2009, 5:51 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:
mrgoat wrote:
M. Yandorf wrote:Steve Wozniak and Jobs are benefiting from illegal p2p.


Citation needed. That's some claim.


No citation is need, ask anyone who has an ipod, but if you insist here you go:
http://weblog.ipcentral.info/archives/2 ... acy_1.html


Do you actually read the articles you are linking to as proof of your point, or just the attention grabbing headline?

Let's look into this:

"Richard Greenfield, an analyst at Fulcrum Global Partners, estimated the average annual song purchases per iPod online fell to 15 songs per iPod in the third quarter from 25 in the same quarter last year."

So one guy, GUESSES something and that amounts to a fact?

You really need research, facts and proof before you make such possibly actionable claims.

M. Yandorf wrote:And another:
http://management.silicon.com/itdirecto ... 844,00.htm
"Apple slammed for piracy-fuelling iPod"


You aren't reading the articles are you?

That is about the system that apple use locking other mp3 vendors out of the iTunes Music Store and nothing whatsoever to do with piracy. You silly billy!

Try again. This time read the articles before you post them and see if you can find any actual evidence to back up your claim over and above some guy at a securities brokerage company guessing.

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 6:12 pm

Believe what you want, but I challenge you to find one ipod without bootlegged music on it.

I don't understand how bootleg music will help the music industry.

I don't understand how bootlegging magic videos will help the magic instructional video industry.

When music bootlegs became more popular Tower closed it's stores, read the article by CBS news which I linked above.

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Timothy Hyde
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Timothy Hyde » June 22nd, 2009, 6:23 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:Believe what you want, but I challenge you to find one ipod without bootlegged music on it.



I'll save you some time searching ...mine.
The Secret Notebooks of Mr Hyde - Vol 1 & 2 - http://www.MagicCoach.com

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Dustin Stinett » June 22nd, 2009, 6:26 pm

Some years ago when Dennis Miller had his weekly HBO talk show, Dave Grohl (Nirvana, Foo Fighters) slammed music industry executives (including flipping them the bird) for whining about pennies over Napster.

Those pennies have now added up to billions in lost revenue for the industry (record companies, artists, record stores, and other ancillary businesses all of which equate to lost jobs). Id be curious what Mr. Grohls position on the issue is now.

Dustin

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 22nd, 2009, 6:28 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:...

When music bootlegs became more popular Tower closed it's stores, read the article by CBS news which I linked above.


One could just as well note that when cigarettes became more expensive Tower Record stores closed and then when they raised the cigarette tax again video retailers started having big problems. And let's not get into the politics of what CBS news will and won't cover - or why please.

Most simply, there's been a shift in the way people spend their disposable income. The rest is handwringing.

Once there were record stores and sewing machines stores on corners. Then there were computer stores and CD/DVD places. Now there are game stores - and those are going away as gamers go to online multi-user games.
Last edited by Jonathan Townsend on June 22nd, 2009, 6:32 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: citing examples

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Tim Ellis
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Tim Ellis » June 22nd, 2009, 6:52 pm

52 Facination sums it all up nicely "Ellis is for punishment and threat. I'm all about Eduction"

If by "eduction" he means "To assume or work out from given facts; deduce" then his statement is flawed at best.

If, on the other hand he meant "education" but spelled it incorrectly... it's hilarious.

(and please re-register with an 's' in 'Fascination' - unless of course, it's some secret new acronym meaning something like

False And Confused Illogicalities NATION

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Richard Stokes » June 22nd, 2009, 7:01 pm

Let's hope the singularity, the convergence spike, arrives in time.
30 years wait?
I'll probably be dead by then, but maybe my grown-up transhumanised children will be able to upload their free pirated cortical extensions - the Vernon/Marlo/ Jennings digital implants which will make them sleight of hand experts overnight.

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Tim Ellis
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Tim Ellis » June 22nd, 2009, 7:02 pm

Why does Mr Goat never ask 52 Facination to cit his ridiculous statements?

52 "Ellis would like to see more people in jail and paying mass fines."

Citation needed

52 "Ellis is for punishment and threat."

Citation needed

52 "most all videos released over the course of a year are crap."

Citation needed

52 "Most of the most talented magicians the world has ever known worked full time in grocery stores, or some very modest blue collar job."

Citation needed


etc etc etc



Every time those two hit this thread, the whole mood changes from discussion to argument. (And yes Mr Goat, there is a difference). [Citation for this statement = look back over the thread]

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Terrence » June 22nd, 2009, 7:36 pm

Here's an interesting cite re Tower and CD prices...

http://news.cnet.com/States-target-reco ... 44195.html

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 7:38 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:One could just as well note that when cigarettes became more expensive Tower Record stores


What?

Tower did not sell ciggarettes.

Tower sold music.
When people figured out how to get free music they stopped purchaing it at Tower.
When Tower stopped selling music it closed.

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 7:42 pm

Terrence wrote:Here's an interesting cite re Tower and CD prices...




Yes indeed, nine years ago Tower was guilty of price fixing.
No need to worry any more because they have closed all their stores.

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Dave V
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Dave V » June 22nd, 2009, 7:51 pm

Tower wasn't the only one. The suit included Capital Records, Sony Music Group, Bertelsmann's BMG Entertainment, Seagram's Universal Music Group and Time Warner's Warner Music Group, along with retailers Musicland, Transworld and Tower Records.

Many of these are still in business.

So far you've added nothing of value to this discussion. Can we get back on topic? You know... Magic?

All you've really said(but not really *proven*) is that piracy hurts retail sales. The key question is: What do you suggest we do about it?
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 8:01 pm

Dave V wrote:So far you've added nothing of value to this discussion. Can we get back on topic?


I am trying to show how dangerous bootlegging is to business.

I don't want the magic video industry to vanish like the Tower stores did.

If people can get the videos for free they will not purchase videos, and publishers will stop manufacturing videos.

When people started to get music for free, they stopped purchasing it, and publishers, like Verve and Blue Note, severally cut down on their new releases.

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Dave V
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Dave V » June 22nd, 2009, 8:07 pm

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm against bootlegging too. But using Tower as an example isn't really helping the discussion. All it's leading to is arguments over why Tower failed when we should be discussing magic piracy.

So, what do we do about it? What do we do to make magic products less attractive to bootleggers without compromising ease of use by legitimate owners?
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"

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M. Yandorf
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 8:22 pm

Dave V wrote:What do we do to make magic products less attractive to bootleggers


Continuing with the music analogy...
The band Tool decided to package their CD's with very innovative packaging. One CD has a stereoscope built into the cardboard case. Some of their CD's featured lenticular images on their covers. Another CD featured a cool see-through plastic booklet. So now when Tool releases a new CD people buy it for the innovative packaging.

Paul Harris did a similar thing!
His latest release featured a collectible wooden box and props that corresponds to the DVD. This way you would have to purchase the DVD to get the props.

Sankey did a similar thing, when he released revolutionary coin magic 2.0 it was sold with a unique "half coin" gaff.

52facination
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby 52facination » June 22nd, 2009, 8:36 pm

3rd time is a charm.

Just answer if giving out private information is legal in itself. And why the same group is claiming that public domain books are on the "no no list". You support this. Your name is on the list.

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Tim Ellis
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Tim Ellis » June 22nd, 2009, 8:54 pm

Dear 52 (or should I call you 'Card Cavalier'?)

I assume you are referring to James Clark posting the address of the administrator of a file sharing forum? Is that correct?

From what I understand, the information he posted was not private as it was already available on the internet.

Are you trying to argue that, because James Clark did that, it justifies piracy of other people's DVDs?

Or are you trying to accuse James Clark or some kind of hypocrisy?

Maybe if I knew who you really were, I could try to derail the discussion by asking about things that your friends have done that may or may not be considered legal too.

Your point being....????

52facination
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby 52facination » June 22nd, 2009, 8:58 pm

You prove my point by just acting the way you do.

From MagicPiracy.org

The Wall of Shame database is now active and contains a growing list of individuals who either run or are associated with websites that promote, encourage, and facilitate magic piracy. This database publishes active and closed cases and provides detailed information garnered from comprehensive investigations about these people and their activities to include, but not limited to, the persons name, a current photograph, their age, address, phone number, email, and various social networking accounts they may use from Facebook to Twitter, MySpace to YouTube. All vetted MagicPiracy.org members (individuals, artists, retailers, etc.) are given direct access to this information so they can stay informed on whos doing what, and where.

Ellis and Webster are supporters. Doesn't that seem like something to steer away from and even boycott anyone that supports it?

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 22nd, 2009, 9:18 pm

Oddly, you can't view the wall of shame without a password.

Boycott anyone who supports it? You won't find a lot of sympathy for that view here, 52. This site is run by a holder of many legitmate copyrights and a victim of internet piracy--that would be me. I would just as soon kick your butt off the board as type this sentence.
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52facination
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby 52facination » June 22nd, 2009, 9:28 pm

Who can get the password though? Anyone that has been on TV like Angela Funovits?

With all due respect Richard that paragraph I just posted is a very scary statement. You also know that on the list of books there are many public domain titles from the early 1900's and late 1800's.

Do as you will Richard. I'm 100 percent for hard work getting it's deserved. I know you work hard on Genii, and my favorite books were written by your hand. None the less what Ellis is promoting here is downright dangerous. It's a little like the black sheep that doesn't support PETA or something here I realize. From some folks stand point you must hate animals or in this case have no respect for magic.

My points have been made that the above paragraph indeed is nothing anyone should take lightly, and they are also stating that public domain books of fair trade, they will do whatever it is they do to publicly post your home address, cell phone number ETC. As to say be above the law themselves. Password or not, it's a simple scapegoat to corrupt and illegal nature in itself.

It's just not right at all.

Besides. Wile everyone gave their options on the best cure mine was simple. Turn people back to the roots of magic, books. The irony of it all.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Dave V » June 22nd, 2009, 9:45 pm

I haven't seen any evidence that the supporter list equates to having access to the database. Consider it a "sponsor" list, not a member list.
Turn people back to the roots of magic, books.
What does that solve? Books are being copied and distributed too.

On Public Domain issues:
The copyright to the electronic editions of Public Domain books, is held by the person who went to the effort of creating it. I might agree that if you made your own scan of an original manuscript that has an expired copyright, you have the right to control the copies how you see fit. If it cost you say, $2000 to scan such a book, index it, and create a .pdf or HTML version of it, you'd be justified in charging something for it to recover your costs. You would be the copyright holder of that edition. That's how Dover and other public domain republishers work. That's why we have two DVD sets on Erdnase, plus several editions of that work still floating around,each one legitimately copyrighted by their publishers.

How would you feel if you sold only one copy for let's say $5 and that person then shared it freely with your customers? You're now out $1995 and pretty pissed.

Just because the original's copyright has expired doesn't mean future editions aren't protected. I'm pretty sure the kids who swap public domain book scans aren't doing this from their own private library. These "public domain works" are stolen from publishers just like the rest of them.
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"

52facination
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby 52facination » June 22nd, 2009, 9:55 pm

I never claimed any solid solution Dave. Yeah that sucks! On the other hand when people get interested in magic, many think that "Criss Angels MindFreak How to Be A Magician" DVD are the best out there I tell them about books to buy. I've done this for years. A constant promoter of books. These guys wouldn't have a clue on all that. They would go to Denny's site or something and order it. It may be a drop in the bucket but it makes for people that didn't know any better to get some good material and support the market. Every week people ask me about books to suggest. Not one has ever come back and said "I found it on X torrent". The majority of people just don't know such things. They could learn that pretty quick going to magicpiracy.org though. How is posting a list of books you can find else where helpful? I mean it can't be a huge wonder why I don't support those guys at all.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Randy Naviaux » June 22nd, 2009, 9:56 pm

"Believe what you want, but I challenge you to find one ipod without bootlegged music on it."

Good point. Probably be pretty hard to do. Unless you came to my house. I don't allow it in my house at all. I either have the cds of music I purchased or they are itunes purchases. I listen to my Nano or listen at work on itunes which has the same exact songs on it as my Nano.

Short of every individual becoming more honest I still think pulling the cloak of secrecy off of the internet is the best solution. If peoples illegal activities were exposed for all to see I'm sure a percentage of them would knock it off. Law enforcement could more easily track down the others.

I don't think any technological system of copy protection will ever work.

I wish it would happen soon. I really want to legally purchase the next two Jennings books before I kick the bucket.

David Alexander
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby David Alexander » June 22nd, 2009, 10:04 pm

A "wall of shame"?! What's that going to accomplish?

With the people who run Pirate Bay, we're dealing with people who exploit autopsy photos of murdered children to up their hit count to increase advertising revenue. Being "outed" isn't going to scare them, even a little bit.

It's just more publicity for the pirates.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 22nd, 2009, 10:15 pm

The appearance of all my copyrighted books as pdf downloads on torrent sites, books on which I worked for many years, makes me sick. I have no pity whatsoever for the people who scan and post my copyrighted work: they should be publicly named. If they're not ashamed, well, so are lots of other criminals. Here there is no legal recourse, so let their names be known.

In the meantime, I have stopped working on every single manuscript. I have other things to do in life than allow my work of decades which has yet to be published to be sucked up by ignorant [censored] and spit out for free to any boob who can download a pdf file.
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Tim Ellis
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Tim Ellis » June 22nd, 2009, 10:30 pm

52 "You prove my point by just acting the way you do."

What is your point... and how am I acting?


Think what you like, but I don't even have a password to visit the 'Hall of Shame' so if you think "guilt by association" is a punishable crime, then by your logic - as you advocate piracy that makes you just as guilty as those who upload the DVDs onto the file sharing site or make copies to give (or sell) to their friends.


Now I've answered you (yet again) let's see if you can answer one simple question:


Who are you?

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 22nd, 2009, 10:40 pm

In the meantime, I have stopped working on every single manuscript. I have other things to do in life than allow my work of decades which has yet to be published to be sucked up by ignorant [censored] and spit out for free to any boob who can download a pdf file.


This is a sure way to let the 3astards win. The good works are lost and the market gets filled with lesser works for folks to buy. A generation later and we've got "magic" for the public as trivial pursuit and much worse crediting problems than we have today.

Please - don't let the 3astards grind you down. I'd rather buy a book with "printed for Jonathan Townsend" at the bottom of the page than not see the book published at all.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

SteveP
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby SteveP » June 22nd, 2009, 10:43 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:
Dave V wrote:What do we do to make magic products less attractive to bootleggers


Continuing with the music analogy...
The band Tool decided to package their CD's with very innovative packaging. One CD has a stereoscope built into the cardboard case. Some of their CD's featured lenticular images on their covers. Another CD featured a cool see-through plastic booklet. So now when Tool releases a new CD people buy it for the innovative packaging.

Paul Harris did a similar thing!
His latest release featured a collectible wooden box and props that corresponds to the DVD. This way you would have to purchase the DVD to get the props.

Sankey did a similar thing, when he released revolutionary coin magic 2.0 it was sold with a unique "half coin" gaff.


And yet, Paul Harris' latest release is available for free, so innovative packaging, collectible wooden boxes and gaffs does nothing to deter these guys.


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