Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

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Edward
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Edward » June 20th, 2009, 8:05 pm

Places like Pirate Bay and Demonoid exist solely to "aid and abet" people moving copyrighted material around without paying for it. Google has many other functions.


But couldn't it be said that one of Google's functions is aid and abet, in a round about way?

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 20th, 2009, 8:31 pm

If you 're going to argue that the ability to search for what's on the internet is aiding/abeting...

Then teaching youngsters to read is too by that logic - as if they could not read they would not be able to do such things - no?

Kinda sounds like a "make them wear burkahs so nice guys won't be tempted to act of character" argument to me.

Nobody gonna argue that cars are evil since they are complicit in automobile accidents?

IMHO those who wish to be part of this community will continue to buy books and stuff as part of paying their dues and those who sit on the margins looking to be entertained by videos are likely to be grab what they can for whatever. Since these outliers are not so much a part of this community proper or its market - why the heated fuss over them. As a group they have not shown so much as the basic fan-edit interest in movies as the folks who did the "phantom edit" of star wars where they minimized the impact of the jarjar character.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby David Alexander » June 20th, 2009, 8:33 pm

Google indexes the net. Demonoid and Pirate Bay have one purpose.

I went to Google and typed in "guns for sale" and had almost 900,000 hits. By your logic Google would be complicit in any murders, assaults, or armed robberies if someone used Google to find a gun for sale...in a round about way.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jim Maloney » June 20th, 2009, 8:47 pm

David Alexander wrote:Places like Pirate Bay and Demonoid exist solely to "aid and abet" people moving copyrighted material around without paying for it.


Torrent sites exist for more than just sharing copyrighted material -- there's plenty of legal torrents available as well. For example, I frequently download Dave Matthews Band concerts. They've allowed people to record their live concerts and share them with others for close to twenty years now. There is nothing illegal about downloading a concert of theirs from one of those sites.

You also gave an example of entirely legal (albeit gruesome) material being shared. While there is certainly a large amount of copyrighted material available there, to say that these sites exist solely to transfer material illegally is, to be perfectly honest, wrong.

-Jim
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Magic Newswire » June 20th, 2009, 9:03 pm

Do people use torrent sites for illegal purposes? Yes. Are there legal uses for torrent apps and sites? YES!

Keep in mind that even today... far more material is distributed against copyright law using the good old fashioned USENET groups that were in place long before the web as we know it today.

In my never to be too humble opinion (and this is shared by many that are far more tech savvy than myself) the Millennium Digital Copyright Act inconveniences only those that legally purchase content. The pirates have no problem breaking copyright protection and selling the fruits of their labor.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 20th, 2009, 9:15 pm

David Alexander wrote:
Places like Pirate Bay and Demonoid exist solely to "aid and abet" people moving copyrighted material around without paying for it. Google has many other functions.


I can find plenty of legal material there.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 20th, 2009, 9:17 pm

Edward wrote:
Places like Pirate Bay and Demonoid exist solely to "aid and abet" people moving copyrighted material around without paying for it. Google has many other functions.


But couldn't it be said that one of Google's functions is aid and abet, in a round about way?


Hardly round about. type any popular video, magic or mainstream, and add .torrent to the search. Lo! Places you can pirate stuff.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby JHostler » June 20th, 2009, 10:50 pm

The basic concept of *intent* seems to have eluded most recent posters. The very name "Pirate Bay" is telling. Google and Demonoid/PB exist for very different reasons... let's not split hairs.

Using Google as justification for torrent sites is laughable, and wouldn't pass muster in Logic 101 at a third-tier community college.
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby JHostler » June 20th, 2009, 10:59 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Nobody gonna argue that cars are evil since they are complicit in automobile accidents?

IMHO those who wish to be part of this community will continue to buy books and stuff as part of paying their dues and those who sit on the margins looking to be entertained by videos are likely to be grab what they can for whatever. Since these outliers are not so much a part of this community proper or its market - why the heated fuss over them. As a group they have not shown so much as the basic fan-edit interest in movies as the folks who did the "phantom edit" of star wars where they minimized the impact of the jarjar character.


1) Intent, Jon. You're cetainly smarter than that (I think).

2) Before asserting a clear line between members of "this" community and the "other," I suggest you obtain a Demonoid account and review downloaders' comments. These folks appear to be more grateful for the content than the merely curious.
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 21st, 2009, 3:28 am

If one mobster calls another mobster to order a "hit" is the phone company to blame?

If Ted Kaczynski sends a bomb through the mail should we prosecute the mailman?

Sites like Pirate Bay and Demonoid do not have any files on their servers. They are a conduate to connect people, like the phone company or USPS.

Copying copyright material is a crime. The people who do so are criminals. I'm not tring to defend sites like these, I'm just tring to say that this is a very complicated issue.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 21st, 2009, 7:39 am

John Hostler wrote: Google and Demonoid/PB exist for very different reasons... let's not split hairs.

Using Google as justification for torrent sites is laughable, and wouldn't pass muster in Logic 101 at a third-tier community college.


Who used Google as justification for torrent sites? I said that if they were guilty then so was google. Not quite the same thing, is it.

Added to which, there is nothing illegal about torrents or torrent sites. I just used one to download the latest build of Ubuntu. I found the torrent using google.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby David Alexander » June 21st, 2009, 10:10 am

Equating Demonoid with Google is absurd. While I'll accept that there are legal torrents on Demonoid, the percentage must be small compared to copyrighted material that is listed. I just looked at their front page and while Wilkie Collins is most certainly no longer in copyright, contemprary comics and games and films certain are.

As I understand it, the argument/defense is that the Internet, like the phone company, is a "common carrier" and is not responsible for what goes over the wires. ISPs also make the same argument. The last thing any of them want is to be held responsible for what goes over their wires.

The fact that Demonoid and Pirate Bay exist to facilitate the "sharing" of copyrighted material seems beyond dispute...and yet we have people disputing it. Amazing. If those sites tried to exist without listing illegal material they wouldn't have many hits and certainly no advertisers. It's about attracting advertising revenue and seems to be working well.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby JHostler » June 21st, 2009, 10:37 am

A quick note for anyone interested in tracking down and outing the infamous johncskate: It appears that the Docc Hilford Confidence Man VHS posted by Mr. Skate changed hands a few days earlier (4/19) on eBay. The seller's ID is mracewillie, and it was/is a relatively simple matter to identify and contact this individual (though I won't post his real name here). The buyer was, unfortunately, anonymous.

Of course, there's a small chance the timing of Skate's posting versus the sale was entirely coincidental...
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 21st, 2009, 11:28 am

David Alexander wrote:Equating Demonoid with Google is absurd.


You go to the site. You search for 'Jay Sankey .torrent' it provides links to where you can download that content.

That's me describing google and a P2P site.

David Alexander wrote:As I understand it, the argument/defense is that the Internet, like the phone company, is a "common carrier" and is not responsible for what goes over the wires. ISPs also make the same argument. The last thing any of them want is to be held responsible for what goes over their wires.


The argument is both Google and any P2P site link to where you can download files. Neither host the files in question.

JHostler
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby JHostler » June 21st, 2009, 11:41 am

Intent to aid & abet. Therein lies the rather obvious difference. Too bad someone actually had to explain this (again).

Now, back to johncskate's true identity...
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jim Maloney » June 21st, 2009, 12:18 pm

John Hostler wrote:A quick note for anyone interested in tracking down and outing the infamous johncskate: It appears that the Docc Hilford Confidence Man VHS posted by Mr. Skate changed hands a few days earlier (4/19) on eBay. The seller's ID is mracewillie, and it was/is a relatively simple matter to identify and contact this individual (though I won't post his real name here). The buyer was, unfortunately, anonymous.

Of course, there's a small chance the timing of Skate's posting versus the sale was entirely coincidental...

Well, considering that same buyer has purchased other items that haven't shown up on Demonoid (including another one from the same seller at the same time), I'd say it was a coincidence. Let's not start a witch hunt, here.

-Jim
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby JHostler » June 21st, 2009, 12:22 pm

Jim Maloney wrote:
John Hostler wrote:A quick note for anyone interested in tracking down and outing the infamous johncskate: It appears that the Docc Hilford Confidence Man VHS posted by Mr. Skate changed hands a few days earlier (4/19) on eBay. The seller's ID is mracewillie, and it was/is a relatively simple matter to identify and contact this individual (though I won't post his real name here). The buyer was, unfortunately, anonymous.

Of course, there's a small chance the timing of Skate's posting versus the sale was entirely coincidental...

Well, considering that same buyer has purchased other items that haven't shown up on Demonoid (including another one from the same seller at the same time), I'd say it was a coincidence. Let's not start a witch hunt, here.

-Jim


No witch hunt intended, but worth consideration & exploration. This particular VHS tape doesn't exactly make the rounds on a daily basis.

Of course, if Mr. Skate had any backbone he'd surely stand up for his beliefs and post his real name right here on the forum.
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby David Alexander » June 21st, 2009, 12:30 pm

Nice detective work,

There may be a causal connection and there may not. Interesting, none the less.

Damian, if Google did nothing but index P2P I would agree with you...but it doesn't. An analogy being that dictionaries have definitions for various words some consider obscene but no rational person considers dictionaries obscene because they contain those words.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby JHostler » June 21st, 2009, 1:04 pm

It's also interesting that one "Rubber Ducker" was illegally posting the Hilford video just before the eBay sale. Again, this could be entirely coincidental... perhaps johncskate just lifted the Rubber Ducker file. Perhaps he IS Rubber Ducker. Who knows - the spineless little runt is anonymous.
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 21st, 2009, 1:06 pm

David Alexander wrote:Damian, if Google did nothing but index P2P I would agree with you...but it doesn't.


Well I don't have the Docc Hilford tape, but just popped it into google and added .torrent and there are loads of places google showed me I can get it from illegally.

Therefore they are aiding and abetting me being able to get stolen content, aren't they?

Saying that's not ALL they do as meaning it's ok is like saying a murderer is also kind to his Mother so that means that any murdering he might do on the side is OK?

Anyway, doesn't really matter or move this forward.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby JHostler » June 21st, 2009, 1:10 pm

mrgoat wrote:Anyway, doesn't really matter or move this forward.


Exactly. Congrats.
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby David Alexander » June 21st, 2009, 1:38 pm

It is interesting to read the Wikipedia's listing for Demonoid. Their servers have been relocated from Holland to Canada and now it is believed that its servers are located in the Ukraine where most Western laws won't apply. The owners of the site hide behind a privacy register in Brazil.

If the big boys who are out of pocket for the thousands of illegal downloads these sites facilitate were clever they'd form a coalition and target the advertisers with boycotts and threats of bad publicity (maybe even lawsuits). It seems unlikely that the site owners would pay out of their own pockets to stay online without advertising revenue.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby SteveP » June 21st, 2009, 4:02 pm

I doubt going after advertisers on websites will make a dent. Many times sites like Demonoid or Pirate Bay don't work directly with advertisers, but an advertising site that supplies them with code to stick on their site, similar to what Google does. If the numbers are coming in, they're going to keep that association with the site.

Also, getting back to basics here, the magic community is very small and the online magic community is even smaller. Wasn't Bill Palmer involved in something like this regarding stopping magic exposure on TV? That was a long time ago and somehow the sponsors were able to survive even though a bunch of magicians said we wont support you any more. The Masked Magician is still going strong, as well as other exposure shows.

This isn't AARP or the NRA, where there is strength in numbers. You can't even get the SAM or IBM to take a public stand against this stuff and even if you could, how many members are we talking about? 20,000 maybe?

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby David Alexander » June 21st, 2009, 6:19 pm

Ah well, so much for that idea.

I remember working on the expose of faithhealers with James Randi. One fake who'd been caught in some illegal activity was buying time on a particular TV station. I wrote to the station management suggesting that by broadcasting this guy's show they were helping him defraud their viewers.

They didn't write back, but a week or two later the show was off that particular station. The "victory" was hollow as they replaced him with a similar odious huckster who hadn't been caught.

The speed of the station's cynicism was breathtaking.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Tim Ellis » June 21st, 2009, 8:31 pm

Mr Goat "Added to which, there is nothing illegal about torrents or torrent sites. I just used one to download the latest build of Ubuntu. I found the torrent using google."

I agree with you Goat, nothing illegal about Torrents, they are merely conduits. But when you use them to UPLOAD copyright material and share it, yes, that is "aiding & abetting".

Google is a SEARCH engine, not a FILE SHARING SYSTEM.

I understand you are debating the tiny, pedantic, differences but for what purpose? Are you just stirring the pot, playing defense lawyer, or assuming the role of Devil's Advocate?

If I post the URL of someone's illegally uploaded DVD, even for the purpose of letting the copyright owner know where it is, then by your logic I'm aiding & abetting as well.

INTENT is a key element here that you seem to be ignoring.

INTENT is the difference between murder and self-defense.

In this case it is the difference between a TORRENT service ALLOWING people to upload copyright material (or to be 100% accurate - allowing people to upload URLs that point to where the files are for the specific purpose that other users can download them) and a SEARCH engine telling you where someone has posted something on the web.

If you wish to argue along this path, then you might think about the responsibilty the ISP has.

One of our sites got booted of our ISP because we were hacked three times and the hackers put invisible links onto our front page directing people to Viagra sites.

We were not even aware but the ISP did not want to be associated with any kind of illegal or unethical behaviour (maybe they can be fined for hosting sites that do that sort of thing, I have no idea) but even though we explained we were unaware of being hacked, we were booted.

Now if pressure was put on all ISPs so that if they were found to be hosting illegal torrent sharing, (and by that I mean a collection of links to illegal files stored on other computers) then I think this sort of file sharing would fade away very quickly.

At the moment, I think the industry is a little self-regulated with a lot of ISPs trying to build a good reputation. Then there are others that simply want the money.

Just like in our business.


BTW: No-one answered my question about a hundred posts ago.


I asked, if you had two screens up on your computer - one displayed a magic DVD your really wanted to see and it cost $25 to download from an online store, and the other a torrent site with the download for free... where would you click?


Unfortunately, most people will choose the free option then, if caught, try to justify it with:

* "There's so much junk produced on the market I wanted to preview it before buying."
* "If it's really illegal, then why was it so freely available?"
* "Copyright only applies if it's sold, not if it's shared."
* "I didn't know it was illegal."
etc...

People know that's it's wrong to steal, but when tempted with theft that they think they'll get away with... many find it irresistible.

Look at riots for example. One person smashes a shop window, grabs a TV set and runs, others see him get away with it and taking advantage of the situation they do the same.

The only reason we don't see this sort of theft on a daily basis is that police catch the rioters and charge them. They let the community know that this is unnaceptable and if you do it you stand a good chance of being caught and punished.

Unfortunately, the theft of intellectual property, the stealing of movies, music and DVDs, although it is clearly denounced as theft (just look at all the warnings at the start of movies etc) people see their friends getting away with it and think "Why should I pay? No-one else is!"

I have to concede I am wrong to think education will change the behaviour of the majority of the population. The threat of punishment is the only thing that will stop piracy.



(On a side note: We have the same problem here in Melbourne right now with street violence. People know it's wrong, but so few people are being caught and even fewer are being punished that crime is escalating. People are calling for the same sort of "Zero Tolerance" policy that appears to have helped New York City fight crime. We simply don't have enough police to enforce it though. Instead the politicians keep buying more CCTV systems... that way, when we find a dead body on the footpath, we get to see how they were killed. Too little too late. But that's another issue, if you want to debate or discuss that PM me!)

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 21st, 2009, 9:03 pm

David Alexander wrote:The fact that Demonoid and Pirate Bay exist to facilitate the "sharing" of copyrighted material seems beyond dispute


Excellent point.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 21st, 2009, 9:27 pm

I can't help but think of Tower Records.
Tower was the only franchise music store to have a substantial jazz department. Best Buy or Walmart have nothing pertaining to substantial jazz. Tower Records was THE place where Blue Note Records, Riverside Records, Atlantic Jazz, Verve Records, ect... could sell their CD's.

File sharing played a major role in Tower's demise.

Now there is no more Tower Records.
Now there is no franchinse store which stocks a diverse selection of quality jazz.

The big jazz labels took a huge hit when Tower closed and so did many jazz artists.

Now the jazz labels have no motivation to release new stuff, after all there are no longer stores to sell there goods.

Jazz sales are dieing off, jazz music (which was not too popular to begin with) is becoming less profitable and less wide spread.

The music I love is being forgotten and it makes me sad.

File sharing has caused this.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby SteveP » June 21st, 2009, 10:05 pm

File sharing played a very minor role in the demise of Tower records. The ability to buy music online, through online retailers (not downloadable music, but buying CD's) is what hurt brick and mortar stores. Hey, just like the magic business!

Bad customer service hurts brick and mortar stores. Why should I go into a store and be ignored by sales people who have better things to do than help me when I have a question? If an item isn't in stock, why should I order through them when I can choose from several websites with no attitude problems AND can offer me better prices? Why wait a week or more to special order at a store, when I can get the title in a few days from a website? Not to mention I can listen to samples online, which took offline retailers a while to catch up to.

Borders Books & Music has a very diverse music selection. But the problem with any retailer is space. Their space is limited, so they are always going to stock best sellers. That is not a problem with online retailers. Space is unlimited.

You want jazz? You need to move to a better city. It's popular here in St. Louis. Memphis and Chicago too. If Jazz sales are dying off, it's not because people are getting the music for free. As you said it wasn't popular to begin with, so what is the industry doing to turn it around?

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 21st, 2009, 10:40 pm

The Borders jazz selection is nothing compared to what Tower used to stock: lot's of "best of" CD's. It's a real joke.

The people who worked at the jazz counter in the 2 stores in Philadelphia were very kind.

Brick and mortar stores offer instant gratification for the listener. What could be faster? Just purchase and listen no need to wait for downloading, no outrageous shipping charges, no lengthy postal delivery time.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jim Martin » June 21st, 2009, 10:44 pm

M. Yandorf wrote:Now there is no franchise store which stocks a diverse selection of quality jazz. ... The music I love is being forgotten and it makes me sad. ...
File sharing has caused this.


I too love jazz (and classical). Maybe the new model is a subscription to an online catalog (ala Naxos):

http://www.naxos.com/subspage/newaccount_paid.asp

"Naxos Music Library Jazz is one of the most comprehensive collection of Jazz music available online. It offers close to 22,600* tracks of jazz from over 2,300* albums. Over 500* jazz artists are represented. Naxos Music Library Jazz comprises Naxos Jazz and the 22 labels of Fantasy Jazz. Naxos Jazz, along with Prophone and Proprius, brings you the world of international Jazz, covering Sweden and Scandinavian jazz artist. US-based Fantasy has the world's deepest jazz catalogue and offers the very best in blues and R&B. All these can be accessible from computers in academic libraries, home or office. Naxos Music Library Jazz and all of its contents are owned by Naxos Digital Services Ltd.
(*As of August 2007)

Perhaps that will be the model - kind of like a .mac account for both magic pdf and dvd.
Jim Martin
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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 21st, 2009, 10:57 pm

Tower Records of Northeast Philadelphia also sold Ellusionist decks! This was really cool, because I could simply by a deck with cash, no need for shipping charges and waiting time. And don't forget about damaged cause by shipping and poorly packed items.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Tim Ellis » June 22nd, 2009, 5:10 am

Steve Pellegrino "Bad customer service hurts brick and mortar stores. Why should I go into a store and be ignored by sales people who have better things to do than help me when I have a question? If an item isn't in stock, why should I order through them when I can choose from several websites with no attitude problems AND can offer me better prices?"

I had the exact same thing happen buying a new computer over the weekend.

I found the computer I wanted online at Officeworks.com.au then called the local stores to go buy one. None carried the same model. Apparently the online version of Officeworks is a completely different company.

Two stores had a more expensive version of the computer. One had it, but only as a demo model they wouldn't sell. The other said they had it in stock so Sue-Anne went to pick it up. Turns out they only had a demo model, but could order it in for me.

On the way out I asked her to pop in to Harvey Norman next door, which always advertises they'll beat anyone's prioes. They had it in stock, Sue-Anne asked if they would beat Officeworks price. They said no. She left tyhe store with $1200 in her pocket and they didn't care.

I ordered it online on Friday. Got the computer I wanted, it arrived Monday morning and cost $4.95 delivered.



Hmmm... we have wandered a little off topic here...

And now, back to the regularly scheduled thread.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby 52facination » June 22nd, 2009, 5:37 am

Putting Pirate Bay and Google together is far from absurd. We tend to forget I suppose that Google has many many branches now. What they are pointing at and I think wasn't told is you can easily filter Google results as per Filetype:x. It really isn't any different in effect, though some could never be convinced it is a feature Google obviously doesn't wish to block, being it's still there.

Making threats and thinking your above the law as citizens, is called a vigilante.

Ellis you never answered on why magicpiracy has a list of public domain books on it's list (some repeated), or how giving people's home address, cell phone etc, is legal in itself. Yeah I know. You won't answer that again probably. None the less your name is waving his flag as a supporter.

Personally amongst my peers none care about piracy. That was my point from the start. When someone gets serious they don't care about downloads at theory 11 or whatever. I once met a guy that thought Brad Christian was the best magician in the world, and based everything around Ellusionist (I never asked but I'd assume pirated) being he didn't know any better. I told him to buy Secrets Of Hamman, and a handful of other books, and talk about a turn around. The guy thanked me for weeks, like I took him off smack and showed him a world he never knew was there.

I mostly think that magicians in the know don't care about videos in the first place, and love their books. If not, that's where the education goes hand in hand. Sure every now and again a gem pops up, but let's get real with each other, most all videos released over the course of a year are crap. A never ending bombardment of half baked twists on classic plots. New comers just don't know the difference. Turn people onto books, turn people onto interacting in private chat rooms. This is called education. Ellis would like to see more people in jail and paying mass fines. Militancy on the subject just is not the right approach (and frankly I think he makes more people want to pirate). It's more about getting people back to the roots of what has worked for all the best. Then they don't care about piracy or the latest "hot" thing.

Don't push the red button, it could be bad. Nothing makes people more curious than acting that way.

I may be the biggest dreamer of them all. But I hope these factory magic video places go under, a wealth of books rises again, and magicians wise up to their addiction of craving some hyped video that is really "stolen" from 1930. The nature of the magic market in that "you must buy to know" has been abused horribly since the internet boom. That's how piracy goes down. Personally I think the best option is a library. The cure? Surely not, but the best step. Ellis is for punishment and threat. I'm all about Eduction on a level of making it so "who cares" about video and piracy. I don't care. Why the heck would anyone with a good library? I'm not fighting any fight. Just trying to tune people into the good stuff, and with each other.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2009, 5:38 am

M. Yandorf wrote:I can't help but think of Tower Records.
Tower was the only franchise music store to have a substantial jazz department. Best Buy or Walmart have nothing pertaining to substantial jazz. Tower Records was THE place where Blue Note Records, Riverside Records, Atlantic Jazz, Verve Records, ect... could sell their CD's.

File sharing played a major role in Tower's demise.

Now there is no more Tower Records.
Now there is no franchinse store which stocks a diverse selection of quality jazz.

The big jazz labels took a huge hit when Tower closed and so did many jazz artists.

Now the jazz labels have no motivation to release new stuff, after all there are no longer stores to sell there goods.

Jazz sales are dieing off, jazz music (which was not too popular to begin with) is becoming less profitable and less wide spread.

The music I love is being forgotten and it makes me sad.

File sharing has caused this.


Unprovable hyperbole.

There is very little decent jazz on p2p sites. It's mainly 'popular' content. Due to the nature of how torrents work, you need lots of people sharing a track for you to be able to download it in a timely way. So there is lots of Pop music and the like. You will not find Bill Evans, Brad Mehldau or Chet Baker on P2P sites.

It's a shame when any business goes under, but to blame imagined piracy of jazz music via P2P for the closure of Tower Records is silly at best.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2009, 5:41 am

M. Yandorf wrote:
Brick and mortar stores offer instant gratification for the listener. What could be faster?


a) Lock up house. Get in car. Drive to Mall. Park. Walk to store. Search for new Brad Mehldau album. Fail to find it. Ask someone. They find it. Wait in line. Get served. Pay. Walk back to car. Drive home. Lock car. Enter house. Play album.

b) Go to iTunes. Search for album. Buy Album. 3 minutes later, play album.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby 000 » June 22nd, 2009, 12:14 pm

Anyone heard of Spotify. Free legal song downloads (along with some ads). A model worthwhile looking at?

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby Jim Maloney » June 22nd, 2009, 12:28 pm

Spotify is ok for streaming. But you don't "own" the music like you do a CD or iTunes/Amazon/eMusic/etc. download.

Also, it hasn't worked very well for SpiralFrog, though from what I understand Spotifyis a bit more feature-rich. It's also worth checking out Pandora for streaming music. (For what it's worth, Bob Lefsetz has strongly indicated a preference for Spotify over Pandora, though.) I think Spotify is only available in the UK/Europe at this time, though.

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Books and Magazines for sale -- more than 200 items (Last updated January 10th, 2014. Link goes to public Google Doc.)

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby mrgoat » June 22nd, 2009, 1:30 pm

Jim Maloney wrote:Spotify is ok for streaming. But you don't "own" the music like you do a CD or iTunes/Amazon/eMusic/etc. download.

Also, it hasn't worked very well for SpiralFrog, though from what I understand Spotifyis a bit more feature-rich. It's also worth checking out Pandora for streaming music. (For what it's worth, Bob Lefsetz has strongly indicated a preference for Spotify over Pandora, though.) I think Spotify is only available in the UK/Europe at this time, though.

-Jim


Spotify is much better than SpiralFrog ever was. It's very clever.

But yes, I'm not sure a streaming only magic video service would be a good idea, however it was funded.

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 3:10 pm

mrgoat wrote: to blame imagined piracy of jazz music via P2P for the closure of Tower Records is silly at best.


I guess it's a coincidence that as Kazza, Limewire, and torrents increased in popularity Tower went out of business?

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Re: Why do people think it's okay to upload magic DVDs?

Postby M. Yandorf » June 22nd, 2009, 3:15 pm

How many ipods would have been sold if people could only PURCHASE music for it?

Steve Wozniak and Jobs are benefiting from illegal p2p.

How many people would purchase Comcast or Fios if not for p2p? Do normal computer users really need 16Mb/s for anything besides downloading massive files?


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