Who will be the next David Copperfield?

David Vamer · Postby **David Vamer** » February 13th, 2009, 2:04 pm

AC's new CD, Along Came A Spider, is brilliant. Almost as good as Brutal Planet.

flynn · Postby **flynn** » February 13th, 2009, 3:15 pm

He's got a good radio show too.

Mark Paulson · Postby **Mark Paulson** » February 13th, 2009, 9:07 pm

I got here late. Is Alice Cooper replacing David Copperfield?

Jonathan Townsend · Postby **Jonathan Townsend** » February 13th, 2009, 9:14 pm

Mark Paulson wrote:I got here late. Is Alice Cooper replacing David Copperfield?

Perhaps Criss Angel. He's done sizable productions with stage tricks and dancers on tour so perhaps it's not out of the question... after his upcoming tour.

Kevin Connolly · Postby **Kevin Connolly** » February 13th, 2009, 9:29 pm

I remember seeing Alice at the Garden in 73-74. He had Randi doing the guilotine, etc. It was great show and great time.

Geno Munari · Postby **Geno Munari** » February 13th, 2009, 10:10 pm

There will never be another David Coperfield. He is to unique and an act that can't be copied.

1000's of light years ahead of all of the runners up.

Jonathan Townsend · Postby **Jonathan Townsend** » February 13th, 2009, 10:26 pm

Geno Munari wrote:There will never be another David Coperfield. He is to unique and an act that can't be copied.

1000's of light years ahead of all of the runners up.

Nice - you can measure a light year? I sincerely hope nobody is trying to be DC or even do a "tribute" as that's what copyists do - lowly. Enjoy DC while he's here and keep an eye open for what the next generation has to offer like Cyril.

Dustin Stinett · Postby **Dustin Stinett** » February 13th, 2009, 11:49 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Nice - you can measure a light year?

Jonathan, I have grown at least 5,878,630,000,000 miles (one very measurable light year) past sick and tired of your quasi-intellectual [censored]. There is no reason to take a very cheap shot at Geno for using what youof all peopleshould know was nothing more than a metaphor.

Take it somewhere else please.

Dustin

The Magic Apple · Postby **The Magic Apple** » February 14th, 2009, 1:43 am

really?

000 · Postby **000** » February 14th, 2009, 6:29 am

Coins across anyone? Anal retentive version, IMHO add Alice in Wonderland monteypython Hofzinger application light years ahead.......IMHO if the cat didnt get wet, strawberry fields and dinner

Jonathan Townsend · Postby **Jonathan Townsend** » February 14th, 2009, 7:55 am

So, the post condemning copyists and suggesting we enjoy performers for what they bring as individuals elicits scorn.

IMHO if the cat didnt get wet, strawberry fields and dinner

000, are you working on a rewrite of MacArthur Park?

How is the latest tour of Ringling Brothers's circus going? Asking as they've got a magician as ringmaster who's on his second large tour and that might be the start of something more later on.

000 · Postby **000** » February 14th, 2009, 9:22 am

I was just having a laugh JT........I believe youre a passionate and highly informed magician...........its just that I sometimes read your posts and truly havent got a clue what you are on about. Like your comments above regarding the circus!
Enjoy your day.

Ken Northridge · Postby **Ken Northridge** » February 14th, 2009, 9:25 am

Like it or not, Chis Angel is the next David Copperfield. I, too, am bombarded with questions about Chris Angel and his 'magic.'

I have long thought that just about every magician I run into at the magic clubs act as if THEY are the next David Copperfield. :)

Timothy Drake · Postby **Timothy Drake** » February 14th, 2009, 9:29 am

Ken Northridge wrote:Like it or not, Chis Angel is the next David Copperfield. I, too, am bombarded with questions about Chris Angel and his 'magic.'

Are we talking about who will be the next popular magician or who will be the next great magician. ( to take the art to new levels) CA has not done that. He is currently the flavor of the day but that day is fading. He will never have the same legacy that Copperfield does.

Best,

Tim

Jonathan Townsend · Postby **Jonathan Townsend** » February 14th, 2009, 10:36 am

Ken Northridge wrote:Like it or not, Chis Angel is the next David Copperfield. I, too, am bombarded with questions about Chris Angel and his 'magic.'...

I agree that at the moment he's the media icon and suggested earlier that we look at this as a parallel to the Japanese aidoru rather than the long term evolving career of a personality branded magician like David Copperfield today or Doug Henning before or Blacksone Jr (and his father before).

I think of him as magic's "De Jour" from that movie. You know, "bling is the new tweed" and all that. It takes a little more grassroots work to develop a brand based on personality - IMHO that comes from lots of touring and learning from that process.

****
* It's cool 000 any real gripes or questions would go by way of private message so folks can work things out without disrupting a thread with personal stuff. That's the way grown-ups do it. :)

Balance/ecology - gotta offer some distraction for those in need.

000 · Postby **000** » February 14th, 2009, 11:10 am

Well put JT.........which demonstates that you can make a clear point without resorting to incomprehensible twaddle (but I suspect you do that with tongue firmly in cheek and twinkle in the eye)....and it doesnt offend me in the slightest,so no need for a pm.

flynn · Postby **flynn** » February 14th, 2009, 3:23 pm

Criss Angel's been around for almost a decade now which is about how long Hennings run was. So he's no magician du jour. And what did Copperfield do to bring the art to a new innovating level? Yea hes been doing his thing since the eighties, doing what other greats before him were doing already. The only thing he did was all the exposure he got for himself thru t.v. specials to get his name out there.

Richard Kaufman · Postby **Richard Kaufman** » February 14th, 2009, 4:27 pm

What did David Copperfield do that no one before did before? Look at Doug Henning and Harry Blackstone, Jr., the "big" magicians of the day before Copperfield came along. Do I have to describe the differences? They're not simply a matter of getting publicity and performing on TV!

flynn · Postby **flynn** » February 14th, 2009, 6:30 pm

He arrived at the right time just when media broadcasting started rolling. All the publicity gave him a bankroll to do whatever he imagined like doing in his shows. Ok so he's perfected the dreamscape magic theatere presentaion but its still a magic show.

Jonathan Townsend · Postby **Jonathan Townsend** » February 14th, 2009, 6:40 pm

flynn wrote:He arrived at the right time just when media broadcasting started rolling. All the publicity gave him a bankroll to do whatever he imagined like doing in his shows. Ok so he's perfected the dreamscape magic theatere presentaion but its still a magic show.

Take a step back and give his shows a listen. Then look at the production values. He was very much with the times (late 70's-80s-90's) rather then seeking to appeal to a retro thing.

Ray T. Stott · Postby **Ray T. Stott** » February 14th, 2009, 7:08 pm

I tried straight sex once but found it sooo tiresome.
Truman Capote Other Voices, Other Rooms

David Vamer · Postby **David Vamer** » February 15th, 2009, 4:38 am

Copperfield pioneered televised mega-illusions. Statue of Liberty, Walking Through The Great Wall, Escaping From Restraints In A Building That's About To Implode.

Say....who recently copied that last one on TV? (Hint: His name rhymes with Criss Angel.)

Ken Northridge · Postby **Ken Northridge** » February 15th, 2009, 8:11 am

flynn wrote:He arrived at the right time just when media broadcasting started rolling. All the publicity gave him a bankroll to do whatever he imagined like doing in his shows. Ok so he's perfected the dreamscape magic theatere presentaion but its still a magic show.

Apparently you think he just got lucky. Right place at the right time? There are two ways to look at this. He had enough talent to convince the network to give him that bankroll, and what he did with that bankroll was outstanding!

From my experience, the drive and determination of the successful turns luck into their favor.

Terrence · Postby **Terrence** » February 15th, 2009, 1:16 pm

Several factors.

The right:

Age, look, talent, drive, time, crew, and broad market appeal.

That's been true of his television specials and live shows.

DC's don't come along very often.

flynn · Postby **flynn** » February 16th, 2009, 12:00 pm

So is that why most everybody associates magic with Criss Angel now days?

Post what you want. DC is DC because of his popularity and right now Criss Angell is more popular than DC and bigger than DC was at this point in his career. One of the weakest argument, and funniest, for DC by a poster here was "around here Criss is not even recognised". C'mon now.

So like I said until Criss fizzles out he's the most recognisable magician out there.

Joe Pecore · Postby **Joe Pecore** » February 16th, 2009, 12:06 pm

flynn wrote:So like I said until Criss fizzles out he's the most recognisable magician out there.

I would think some would make a case for David Blaine (in terms of recognizable).

David Vamer · Postby **David Vamer** » February 16th, 2009, 3:45 pm

In 1990, Vanilla Ice and Milli Vanilli were both more "popular" than Aerosmith.

flynn · Postby **flynn** » February 16th, 2009, 4:38 pm

I knew some lame ace was gonna compare Criss success with vanilla ice or mc hammer. They were around for what, a year? You probably liked them because they were not popular than Aerosmith at the time. I'm done here. My second and last post was probably the only posts I should've posted. I dont want to see DC name anymore until I go to Vegas. lol

David Vamer · Postby **David Vamer** » February 16th, 2009, 4:49 pm

>>>>You probably liked them because they were not popular than Aerosmith at the time.>>>

You wrote Season 2, didn't you?

Jonathan Townsend · Postby **Jonathan Townsend** » February 16th, 2009, 5:12 pm

flynn wrote:So is that why most everybody associates magic with Criss Angel now days? ...

I that statement true anywhere?
What would need to be true for that to be even possible?

Richard Kaufman · Postby **Richard Kaufman** » February 16th, 2009, 6:13 pm

Sorry, Flynn, but David Copperfield's least-watched TV special has many millions more viewers than any episode of Mindfreak has ever had. David was on the cover of major media magazines. Criss Angel has neither that level of success or recognition.

Timothy Drake · Postby **Timothy Drake** » February 16th, 2009, 11:48 pm

David Vamer wrote:In 1990, Vanilla Ice and Milli Vanilli were both more "popular" than Aerosmith.

Could not have said it better. I think Milli Vanilli is very fitting in this case. Remember when they they were outed for lip syncing to others voices but then gave a live performance to make us BeLIEve they could actually sing? That went about as well as a new live magic show in Vegas currently.

CA is more well known currently I admit that but he will not be remembered for talent or pushing the art in a creative direction. DC will.

Best,

Tim

David Alexander · Postby **David Alexander** » February 17th, 2009, 12:19 am

David Copperfield was and remains a world-wide theatrical attraction who has made many millions of dollars both for himself and his management team over the years.

David was able to mount and sustain a decades long career by delivering first class, quality magical entertainment year after year both on his television specials and in person. People lined up to pay good money to see his shows year after year. He repeatedly filled large venues at top money.

I recall one year reading in Billboard that at that time Madonna was the #7 highest grossing touring show while David's was #5.

Criss Angel has accomplished, perhaps, 10% - 15% of what David Copperfield has done in his career. Criss has had a cable TV show while Copperfield was on full broadcast network over fifteen times, programs watched by tens of millions of people. His sponsors handed over a check for $1 million to be associated with DC year after year. For all the hype Criss has not been able to turn himself into anything near the theatrical attraction that David is.

Then there's that really awful show in Las Vegas that is Criss' current main claim to fame...his "reinvention of magic." Sorry, but in the several areas where it really counts in show business Criss Angel isn't anywhere near David Copperfield's stature. He remains a wannabe, but worse, having proven to the money guys that he cannot be trusted to produce a saleable product, his career path doesn't look to be that long. Who knows, Criss might become the Michael Cimino of theatrical magic?

flynn · Postby **flynn** » February 17th, 2009, 6:04 pm

I can't help but post some more on this topic. Criss paid his dues. If he was a milli vanilli fake he would've got busted at the club level. When he escapes from boxes with cameras fixed on him its the same thing as using sheets and fake silloutes. Copperfield probably also uses more stooges than Criss at his shows, he'll be saying the same thing almost or the same lines in different shows. Thats for that.

He may have also got the idea of the exploding building from DC or not. In magic its very possible to reinvent the wheel so to speak because there's only so may sleights and tricks that some acts or routines are bound to be the same. If he did copy the idea, then most everybody else is too when they do coins across or other tricks and routines that have become classics. I got an idea to tear and restore paper long before I got into magic in elementary school using gum wrapper and kleenex.

What counts in show business is fame. And like I said in a previous post DC IS DC BECAUSE OF HIS FAME and CRISS IS MORE FAMOUS BOTTOM LINE. All of Davids past accomplishment isn't helping him with that. Its helped him become famous no doubt.

Maybe if a thread with a topic "who's accomplished the most in magic between the two" were started, you guys will have good arguments.

Brad Henderson · Postby **Brad Henderson** » February 17th, 2009, 6:30 pm

Criss may have a degree of name recognition now (see my article in Magic magazine on the topic) but his name is ALWAYS associated with stooges and camera tricks - to lay people.

Of course, most of these laypeople - those that know Criss's name - ALSO know David's. And they don't mention stooges or camera tricks when his name comes up. They mention seeing him live somewhere and being amazed that he sent someone to an island or made 13 audience members vanish.

Yep, even the credulous who buy into the Portal premise STILL know Angel is using camera tricks.

Doesn't that say something?

Richard Hatch · Postby **Richard Hatch** » February 17th, 2009, 8:04 pm

I questioned Flynn's comment that Angel is more famous than Copperfield, so did a "google fight" between "Criss Angel" and "David Copperfield." I assumed the latter would win easily, both due to his many years head start and the fact that hits from the literary world would add to his count from any Dickensian references, but, lo and behold, Criss easily beat David 767,000 hits to 540,000. Both beat "David Blaine" who got 410,000 hits. So I am forced to admit that, at least in cyberspace, Angel is more "famous" than Copperfield.

Joe Pecore · Postby **Joe Pecore** » February 17th, 2009, 8:30 pm

How did you run your "google fight"?

When I do a google search, It give me:
"David Copperfield" 7,220,000
"Criss Angel" 3,720,000

Doug Thornton · Postby **Doug Thornton** » February 17th, 2009, 8:38 pm

Yeah, but "Richard Hatch" returns 1,430,00 hits, so he's in strong contention.

Richard Hatch · Postby **Richard Hatch** » February 17th, 2009, 8:50 pm

Joe Pecore wrote:How did you run your "google fight"?

When I do a google search, It give me:
"David Copperfield" 7,220,000
"Criss Angel" 3,720,000

I used http://www.googlefight.com/
Not sure why it would yield a different result than the individual googles searches. When I just did the latter, I got just 2,680,000 for "David Copperfield" versus 3,720,000 for "Criss Angel", so still a clear win for Criss. How did you get the 7,220,000 result? I got less than 5 million hits even after removing the quotation marks from "David Copperfield" in the search...

Joe Pecore · Postby **Joe Pecore** » February 17th, 2009, 8:58 pm

I just did a google search (using the quotes) and looked in the upper corner to see "Results 1 - 10 of about 7,220,000 for "David Copperfield".

Of course David is cheating a bit, since it's also the name of a book but Charles Dickens ;-)