Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
garyanimal
Posts: 8
Joined: February 22nd, 2009, 11:08 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby garyanimal » February 23rd, 2009, 5:10 am

Well we will see what cupscon is like. I have just posted a link to this page urging every one to see this story about RNT2. I shall continue to insist members take a look here and read the comments from Mr Riser and Bret Sherwood. I want everyone to know . I was told my spat with Jake was removed to stay neutral. I did not know at that time that other makers were being shafted also. Cupscon has a duty to accept posts negative and positive about RNT2 or myself for that matter. If my post directing people to this page are removed then I'll have to go to. I am sorry none of this gets posted on cupscon I do not know why. Have you tried-Please do.

hugmagic
Posts: 271
Joined: January 20th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: OHIO
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby hugmagic » February 23rd, 2009, 8:20 am

I am totally frustrated at this continued light into the theft of ideas and products by RNT2. It seems this has continued on and on. MC is controlled by one man in the end. He does not want conflict even if it does not protect people. Again, I will commend Richard for his stance on this.

I know Chris Reisman of Encore Magic pretty well. Chris sold the rights and jigs he had from the original RNT to Jake with an understanding. After the initial payment, no further payments were made and the jigs, inventories and other ideas were never returned. Jake could have not done a better job except with a mask and gun. Chris's name has been badly slandered by Jake. Chris may have not gotten things out but he did not take people's money either.

Mr. Riser I hope that someday we can meet as I have the greatest respect for the ethics and work you do.

Richard
Richard Hughes
www.hughesmagic.com

User avatar
Ray T. Stott
Posts: 324
Joined: August 5th, 2008, 5:15 pm
Location: Tardis, Gallifrey

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » February 23rd, 2009, 10:32 am

I am totally frustrated at this continued light into the theft of ideas and products by RNT2. It seems this has continued on and on. MC is controlled by one man in the end. He does not want conflict even if it does not protect people. [color:#FF0000]Again, I will commend Richard for his stance on this.[/color]


Yes, he is, indeed, the John Peter Zenger of magic. :D
It's not about the magic; it's about the daily box office gross.

Leonard Hevia
Posts: 1895
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon, Frank Garcia, Slydini, Houdini,
Location: Gaithersburg, Md.

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Leonard Hevia » February 23rd, 2009, 8:30 pm

A prominent cups collector roasted me alive on the Green Monster because I posted my thoughts here about the RNT2 Paul Fox re-issue cup. I wrote to this individual that I paid for the cups, and therefore had the right to my opinions. I also mentioned that I bought the cups used from somebody else because I was afraid to purchase anything from RNT2. To be fair, the few items I ordered from RNT2 a year ago did arrive, but this man challenged me to produce a list of angry customers. If he is reading this, the list is RIGHT ABOVE.

User avatar
Ray T. Stott
Posts: 324
Joined: August 5th, 2008, 5:15 pm
Location: Tardis, Gallifrey

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » February 23rd, 2009, 8:58 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:[color:#FF0000][size:11pt]A prominent cups collector[/size] [/color]roasted me alive on the Green Monster because I posted my thoughts here about the RNT2 Paul Fox re-issue cup. I wrote to this individual that I paid for the cups, and therefore had the right to my opinions. I also mentioned that I bought the cups used from somebody else because I was afraid to purchase anything from RNT2. To be fair, the few items I ordered from RNT2 a year ago did arrive, but this man challenged me to produce a list of angry customers. If he is reading this, the list is RIGHT ABOVE.


Current incarnation of C. A. Conlin:
"I am going into a trance...I see you in grave danger while in a cafe...I have a vision of you writing a bad thing about a certain bte noire maker of drinking vessels...the danger is now greater...the face of your antagonist is beginning to materialize...the face is becoming clearer...he seems to be wearing some type of copper crown...I see it all now...you are going to be brutally punished for your transgression by.....The Swatter !!" :D
It's not about the magic; it's about the daily box office gross.

User avatar
Kevin Connolly
Posts: 2437
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Kevin Connolly » February 23rd, 2009, 9:02 pm

LMAO!!!! :D :D

I always thought the crown was a flower pot. :whistle:
Please visit my website.
http://houdinihimself.com/
I buy,sell + trade Houdini, Hardeen items.

Leonard Hevia
Posts: 1895
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon, Frank Garcia, Slydini, Houdini,
Location: Gaithersburg, Md.

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Leonard Hevia » February 24th, 2009, 8:28 pm

Dammit Ray! You're a riot! Yes, I failed to duck in time, and was swatted out of the ballpark. I believe that copper crown is really a Brett Sherwood engrave gold and silver cup. I'm still being attacked over there...but...RNT2 is on trial...not me. :crazy:

Jim Riser
Posts: 1086
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Jim Riser » February 24th, 2009, 10:08 pm

Leo;
It's easy to be "The Swatter" when you know that many trying to swat back will have their posts deleted.

What gets me is that "The Swatter" prides himself on shutting down rip-off operators yet appears to be RNT2's biggest supporter and spokesperson. Perhaps the blinders were removed for the mc avitar when the crown was glued on to his head. Or perhaps "The Swatter" refuses to see. Or perhaps "The Swatter" has an addiction (cups) and RNT2 is his supplier on the side?

Methinks the magic community needs a new and an unbiased "Swatter".

Hang in there, Leo. You are not the problem.
Jim

User avatar
Ray T. Stott
Posts: 324
Joined: August 5th, 2008, 5:15 pm
Location: Tardis, Gallifrey

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » February 25th, 2009, 12:07 am

I'm still being attacked over there...but...[size:11pt][color:#FF0000]RNT2 is on trial...not me.[/color]
[/size]

It is not you that is on trial!
[size:11pt]It is not RNT2 that is on trial!![/size]
[size:14pt]It is society itself that is on trial!!![/size]

mile Franois Zola - J'accuse! - By way of Paul Muni

My cup (Bike athletic) runneth over.
It's not about the magic; it's about the daily box office gross.

Leonard Hevia
Posts: 1895
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon, Frank Garcia, Slydini, Houdini,
Location: Gaithersburg, Md.

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Leonard Hevia » February 25th, 2009, 8:25 pm

Thanks for the kind words Mr. Riser. For a just a moment there, I began to question my sanity. You are undoubtedly correct; there's barbed wire, german shepherds, and ruthless guards in Green Land. Those that are courageous enough to speak out about RNT2 are bound, gagged, and never heard from again. I can still faintly hear the uneven raggedy crack of the firing squad...

Ray--you're incorrigible. Keep up the good work...

User avatar
Ray T. Stott
Posts: 324
Joined: August 5th, 2008, 5:15 pm
Location: Tardis, Gallifrey

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » March 13th, 2009, 9:29 pm

Nothing has been heard from any of the members that had been promised long over due deliveries in February.

How did the last minute buyers fare on receiving their manufactured props, i.e. not change purse frames bottle labels or wand tips?

Has everyone received their merchandise or promises of future delivery?

"Is everybody happy?" :whistle:
Ted Bogusta...No...that was Ted Lewis
It's not about the magic; it's about the daily box office gross.

Dave Shepherd
Posts: 424
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: 15 miles w. of Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave Shepherd » March 13th, 2009, 11:17 pm

Ray T. Stott wrote:How did the last minute buyers fare on receiving their manufactured props, i.e. not change purse frames bottle labels or wand tips?

Between mid-December and early February I ordered four significant items: a set of linking rings, two small chop cups, and one set of jumbo cups.

I received each of the items as promised within three weeks of placing each order.

I am very satisfied with my experience.

User avatar
Dave V
Posts: 251
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 1:44 am
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave V » March 14th, 2009, 10:58 am

I got everything I ordered. Working with Epiphany was a pleasure.
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"

User avatar
Ray T. Stott
Posts: 324
Joined: August 5th, 2008, 5:15 pm
Location: Tardis, Gallifrey

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » March 14th, 2009, 2:42 pm

[size:11pt]Running total of happy shoppers[/size] :grin:

[size:14pt]☑ Archie Image


☑ Jughead Image


☐ Heckle
Image

☐ Jeckle[/size]
It's not about the magic; it's about the daily box office gross.

garyanimal
Posts: 8
Joined: February 22nd, 2009, 11:08 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby garyanimal » March 22nd, 2009, 5:53 pm

I have left cupscon.com. They it seems lock down and edit also.
RNT2 is now with Don and whilst he brought it in good faith the question of stolen designs remains. Hopefully aleast the customers will not get ripped off. My dispute is with my Gazzo cup. I have renamed it the cup with no name. It will still be the gazzo cup in every other way and will now be sold at $160 on magicpitch.co.uk. Less than half of what Penguin charges. Okay you will not get a poxy cloth bag but its a great deal.
www,magicpitch.co.uk goes up in a few days

User avatar
Dave V
Posts: 251
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 1:44 am
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave V » March 22nd, 2009, 7:18 pm

Gary,
Please don't bring your fight over here. All Cupscon did was shut down a flood of abusive posts until things could be resolved. Sean promised not to take sides and he's kept his word. Nothing was removed without the poster's permission. Please don't make it out to be anything other than that.
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"

garyanimal
Posts: 8
Joined: February 22nd, 2009, 11:08 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby garyanimal » March 23rd, 2009, 12:30 am

For one thing I'll post where I like, for another this thread was not started by me and I'm far from being the only one to post negative comments about RNT2.The fight was here long before I arrived and why was that. Because Jake earned that lack of respect.
Sean has not taken sides and I have not said that he has. Whats this to do with you anyway.You didn't get stiffed by Jake but many others have. I left cupscon because I fully intend to set up my own site where I will be free to say what I wish. As for RNT2 with Don I wish him good luck but he must have known he was buying into a company that had more than a few disputes. If you knowing buy something stollen you are asking for trouble. Don says he is proud of his gazzo cups .well they were never Jakes to begin with. Remember Mr Riser and Mr Sherwood have posted remarks that are also critical of Jake and his stealing of designs.Is Don proud of the princess 2 cups also. Clearly Sherwood rip offs

User avatar
Dave V
Posts: 251
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 1:44 am
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave V » March 23rd, 2009, 2:13 am

I was only referring to your comment about Cupscon editing and locking posts as well which heavily implies from past experience that you think we're following in the footsteps of other sites where editing and favoritism is the norm. We're not like that over there. What does it have to do with me? I donated the server space and built that site at Sean's request. When you talk bad about that site I take it personally.


As far as the future RNT2, I trust that Don will do the right thing if people give him the chance.
"I still play with a full deck, I just shuffle slower"

garyanimal
Posts: 8
Joined: February 22nd, 2009, 11:08 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby garyanimal » March 23rd, 2009, 6:35 am

Well that sounds fair. I have placed a post on cupscon stating that
I left of my own free will. My posts were deleted at my request, but only after the topic was locked down and the post (patronising) by Don was removed ( at his request) leaving mine looking somewhat out of place.
I think I agree with you . Don will do the right thing, he would be mad not to .After all look at the flack Jake has gotten from doing the wrong thing.

Jim Riser
Posts: 1086
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Jim Riser » March 27th, 2009, 3:07 pm

Gary;
I know nothing about the new owner nor his reputation. It will be interesting to see how things play out with new ownership. I prefer to give the new guy a blank slate and see how things go. My quarrel was with the previous owners - for good reason. The new owner, Don, may actually be an ethical person. We'll see. It would not be fair to prejudge him based upon the actions of the previous owners. Time will tell.
Jim

garyanimal
Posts: 8
Joined: February 22nd, 2009, 11:08 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby garyanimal » March 27th, 2009, 10:08 pm

James,
It seems he is an ethical chap .I am currently sorting things out with him. Like you my problem was with the previous owner and it's simple not for of me to have painted Don with the same brush. Time will tell indeed. So far it looks promising.

hugmagic
Posts: 271
Joined: January 20th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: OHIO
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby hugmagic » March 28th, 2009, 12:17 pm

I hope that Don does well with this company as he is in my neck of the woods.

I also hope that he sees fit to do right by Chris Reesman who sold to Jake the stock and original spinning block he had. Jake never did follow through with his agreement after the initial payment and once he had what he wanted.

Chris has no intention of getting back in this crazy business but Jake certainly did not live up to his bargin. I would assume that when you buy a company you also buy it's liabilities as well as it's assests. That is one reason it was hard for the original RNT to be sold as the liabilities outstanding were so great.

Again, I do hope Don goes well and rebuilds the reputation of RNT. Or as I have learned the hard way, having the name does not mean anything without the integrity behind it. I could have saved thousand had I not tried to save the Marshall name.

Richard
Richard Hughes

www.hughesmagic.com

Frank Starsinic
Posts: 331
Joined: January 23rd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Davis,CA
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Frank Starsinic » March 30th, 2009, 10:22 pm

I wish Don the very best with the new company. I hope he has a smooth transition. I'm concerned about the many skeletons in RNT2's closet and how they might affect the new business but let's hope it all works out well for everyone involved.

User avatar
Richard Mendez
Posts: 32
Joined: July 8th, 2008, 10:31 am
Favorite Magician: Gregory Wilson
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Richard Mendez » April 13th, 2009, 10:05 am

I am the former programmer, webmaster and a $10,000.00 financial investor that was promised a partnership in RNT2 four years ago. To this day, I have seen nothing in return. Myself and at least one other $25,000.00+ investor we're both taken for a ride by the former owner Jake Zimmerman.

What can I say at this point? The guy was a very convincing con man, thief and liar. He actually has plans to start another magic company which he, amazingly, solicited me to be a part of. I guess that reflects his opinions of me.

Truth be known, he found me at the weakest point of my entire life. If I ever appeared guilable or stupid to him, it is only because I wanted to believe in the dreams that he promised we'd share. Above all, I wanted to believe that he was always sincere and a man of his word.

Roger M.
Posts: 1424
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Roger M. » April 13th, 2009, 11:43 am

Considering the customer complaints (many hundreds of them) that were posted and then just as quickly deleted on the Cafe, this isn't surprising.

If there's any justice, we haven't heard the last of this situation.

It never feels good to get ripped by people you consider friends and business partners, equally painful to get ripped as a customer who's sent money in good faith.

Jim Riser
Posts: 1086
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Jim Riser » April 13th, 2009, 2:15 pm

Richard Mendez wrote:I am the former programmer, webmaster and a $10,000.00 financial investor that was promised a partnership in RNT2 four years ago. To this day, I have seen nothing in return. Myself and at least one other $25,000.00+ investor we're both taken for a ride by the former owner Jake Zimmerman.

What can I say at this point? The guy was a very convincing con man, thief and liar. He actually has plans to start another magic company which he, amazingly, solicited me to be a part of. I guess that reflects his opinions of me.

Truth be known, he found me at the weakest point of my entire life. If I ever appeared guilable or stupid to him, it is only because I wanted to believe in the dreams that he promised we'd share. Above all, I wanted to believe that he was always sincere and a man of his word.


Well, Richard;
Several of us tried to warn you and others about Jake but you and the faithful Magic Cafe sheep chose to bad mouth those of us trying to alert you to the situation. Our thanks for "blowing the whistle" on this sleazeball was simply having the thugs on the Magic Cafe gang up against us. Any warnings about the situation were promptly removed from threads to protect your "partner". Jake's thefts and lies were considered acceptable and the sheep even bragged about ordering rip-offs like the so called Princess Cups. In a word - disgusting. The magic community really needs to self examine themselves.

Apparently Jake's medical problems have cleared up miraculously if he plans to start another magic business. Perhaps the medical condition was as truthful as the "law student" daughter who isn't even out of high school. I'm certain the the Magic Cafe sheep will continue to support the new business. One can only wonder how many partners and shares of the new business he will be selling. Richard, perhaps you can get in on the ground floor. Invest NOW!

Warnings have been posted here and elsewhere. Look out for this guy and any business he runs.

Richard, you have my sympathy. It's a shame you wore blinders during your time with Jake.
Jim

Frank Starsinic
Posts: 331
Joined: January 23rd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Davis,CA
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Frank Starsinic » April 14th, 2009, 5:17 am

The princesswood cups were a disgusting endeavor, and basically a self-proclaimed ripoff of Brett's cups.

What made it worse were the people on the cafe, seeing 2 sets of cups that were virtually identical, professing that there was no resemblance. That really told you who was who and where they stood.

Greg McNeil
Posts: 43
Joined: March 2nd, 2009, 9:55 am

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Greg McNeil » April 14th, 2009, 10:56 am

Frank Starsinic wrote:The princesswood cups were a disgusting endeavor, and basically a self-proclaimed ripoff of Brett's cups.

What made it worse were the people on the cafe, seeing 2 sets of cups that were virtually identical, professing that there was no resemblance. That really told you who was who and where they stood.

Oddly enough there were the people who looked at photos of the Sherwoods and the knock-offs side by side and had the temerity to claim they were distinctly different cups. Huh? You'd have to be pretty deep in denial (or have other motivations as I mention below...) to say that. Baffling.

There isn't a millimeter or two difference at any point on the cups. They're within a few grams of identical weight. They even interchangeably stack and nest without wobbling. Obviously no accident. The re-worked saddle doesn't change the fact that these are blatant copies of Brett's nearly flawless design.

Oh, I didn't buy my Sherwood knock-offs. I got them as part of a long... long... long standing trade deal. A deal I thought many times would never happen. Jake and I struck a deal in June, 2007. I sent him a collectible original R'n'T item immediately. That was followed by almost two years of being neglected and ignored, Jake changing the deal, excuses, and seemingly empty promises. Eventually I accepted the knock-offs because it was better than nothing. And I was actually surprised when they finally did arrive a couple weeks ago.

All too often the RNT2 voices on the Caf were condescending and vindictive. Criticism of their lack of ethics and professionalism was met with the childish response of badmouthing the critic. And even relatively innocuous unflattering comments were regularly censored. I always felt I had to be cautious about what I said there, or face the possibility of never receiving anything to satisfy our deal. Through private messages I've found there were, and still are, at least several others in similar predicaments. Stroke RNT2 a little and you might get the stuff you paid for. Honestly criticize them and you're likely to become a victim of their spite.

So remember, it's almost certain that at least some of the people who look like RNT2 fan boys are just playing nice, still holding out hope of not getting burned. As more truth comes out, it appears likely that the recent RNT2 era will prove to be one of the uglier tales in magic manufacturing history. Darn shame, too.

Jim Riser
Posts: 1086
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Jim Riser » April 14th, 2009, 3:31 pm

Greg McNeil wrote:
Frank Starsinic wrote:The princesswood cups were a disgusting endeavor, and basically a self-proclaimed ripoff of Brett's cups.

What made it worse were the people on the cafe, seeing 2 sets of cups that were virtually identical, professing that there was no resemblance. That really told you who was who and where they stood.

Oddly enough there were the people who looked at photos of the Sherwoods and the knock-offs side by side and had the temerity to claim they were distinctly different cups. Huh? You'd have to be pretty deep in denial (or have other motivations as I mention below...) to say that. Baffling.

There isn't a millimeter or two difference at any point on the cups. They're within a few grams of identical weight. They even interchangeably stack and nest without wobbling. Obviously no accident. The re-worked saddle doesn't change the fact that these are blatant copies of Brett's nearly flawless design.

Oh, I didn't buy my Sherwood knock-offs. I got them as part of a long... long... long standing trade deal. A deal I thought many times would never happen. Jake and I struck a deal in June, 2007. I sent him a collectible original R'n'T item immediately. That was followed by almost two years of being neglected and ignored, Jake changing the deal, excuses, and seemingly empty promises. Eventually I accepted the knock-offs because it was better than nothing. And I was actually surprised when they finally did arrive a couple weeks ago.

All too often the RNT2 voices on the Caf were condescending and vindictive. Criticism of their lack of ethics and professionalism was met with the childish response of badmouthing the critic. And even relatively innocuous unflattering comments were regularly censored. I always felt I had to be cautious about what I said there, or face the possibility of never receiving anything to satisfy our deal. Through private messages I've found there were, and still are, at least several others in similar predicaments. Stroke RNT2 a little and you might get the stuff you paid for. Honestly criticize them and you're likely to become a victim of their spite.

So remember, it's almost certain that at least some of the people who look like RNT2 fan boys are just playing nice, still holding out hope of not getting burned. As more truth comes out, it appears likely that the recent RNT2 era will prove to be one of the uglier tales in magic manufacturing history. Darn shame, too.


So, Greg, what you are saying is that it is perfectly acceptable to trash reputable magic businesses all over forums if you need to suck up to a crook to complete a deal!

Am I the only one who finds this attitude objectionable?

I stand by my original statement that the magic community needs to do some serious self examination and reflection.

And now you know why I am not interested in selling to these unethical types on the Magic Cafe. I can certainly do without the business from people having the above attitude.

If these are the only types that magic is currently attracting, then, perhaps magic deserves to die out.

We can only wonder what the new RnT owner "bought" from the crook - tooling for making rip off designs?

This is a sorry state of affairs with no changes in sight.
Jim

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4100
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Brad Henderson » April 14th, 2009, 3:56 pm

The Magic Cafe is the Mos Eisley of the magic world.

Greg McNeil
Posts: 43
Joined: March 2nd, 2009, 9:55 am

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Greg McNeil » April 14th, 2009, 5:28 pm

Jim Riser wrote:So, Greg, what you are saying is that it is perfectly acceptable to trash reputable magic businesses all over forums if you need to suck up to a crook to complete a deal!

No, sir. I'm not saying that at all. In fact I think it's highly objectionable to have one's criticism censored on a forum simply because the crooks advertise there. I think it's a sorry state of affairs when the RNT2 crew intimidates customers and badmouths competitors in order to avoid public discussion of their shortcomings. The way I was treated by RNT2 was the worst I've ever experienced in all my 40 years of buying and trading magic. I won't do any further business with any of the people involved. And unfortunately I'm not alone in saying the whole affair put a bad taste in my mouth about buying and selling magic in general.

What I am saying is that some people aren't going to shout out their valid criticism for various reasons. First, we all know there's no knocking the advertisers on the Caf without swift and certain retribution. The advertiser gets to badmouth the critic, and the critic gets censored. That's a serious problem right there. But beyond that, when the manufacturer intimidates the customer, refuses to send already paid for merchandise because the customer dares to express their dissatisfaction, that will keep people from honestly describing their experiences. It's extortion, and it's wrong.

I'm not suggesting that it's acceptable for the fan boys, the RNT2 suck-ups, to praise the thieves and crap on the honest manufacturers and dealers. Plenty of that happens, especially on the Caf. It's disgusting. I am saying that some people are going to hold back their legitimate complaints in hopes of not rocking the boat so they might still get what they've paid for. We saw how RNT2 treated Frank when he dared to criticize them. They owed him some merchandise in a trade and flat out declared they had sent it, couldn't prove it, and tried to make him into the bad guy in the matter. I'm saying one reason we might have not yet heard all the gory details of many of the sour deals is because some people are still holding out hope of getting something for their hard earned cash.

Am I the only one who finds this attitude objectionable?

I stand by my original statement that the magic community needs to do some serious self examination and reflection.

And now you know why I am not interested in selling to these unethical types on the Magic Cafe. I can certainly do without the business from people having the above attitude.

If these are the only types that magic is currently attracting, then, perhaps magic deserves to die out.

We can only wonder what the new RnT owner "bought" from the crook - tooling for making rip off designs?

This is a sorry state of affairs with no changes in sight.

I share your concern, Jim. I think you may have misunderstood my own position here. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not defending those who are loyal to RNT2 for who-knows-what reasons. I'm saying some people have their own reasons for not publicly calling them out. When their deals are done, or they've given up on ever getting satisfaction, I expect we'll hear of a lot more sorry treatment. It ain't going to get any prettier.

The list of RNT2 lies and deceit is long. The extortion and cheating has been frustrating for the victims. The theft of designs and engineering from you, Brett, Gary, and others was clearly wrong. Names like Paul Fox, John Mendoza, Gazzo, Don Alan, and even the Rings 'n' Things name have been exploited for the selfish gain of a few greedy, dishonest people. And anyone who defends that behavior or turns a blind eye to it is wrong.

Edward
Posts: 162
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: California

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Edward » April 14th, 2009, 6:14 pm

One other thing that happens at the MC is that if you critize the advertisers or certain "celebrities" in magic, the MC will ban you.

That to is disgusting.

This is not the motto that they claim to live up to.

Jim Riser
Posts: 1086
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Jim Riser » April 15th, 2009, 1:41 am

Greg;
Thanks for clarifying your earlier post.

Edward;
Actually, I blame Steve Brooks and his henchmen (loosely termed "staff") for much of the deception. His policies of protecting advertisers led to many people being duped. If he had let the complaints stand rather than deleting them, perhaps a number of people might have been spared the sting of being taken. He and crew are hardly "helping magicians". He actively encouraged Jake's and fans' lies, as well as, enabling Jake to continue his con. To me, Brooks and staff seem as guilty as Jake.

The above remarks would get me banned from the Magic Cafe - if I wasn't already banned :) - no loss.
Jim

User avatar
Timothysmagic
Posts: 10
Joined: April 15th, 2009, 4:51 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Timothysmagic » April 15th, 2009, 9:36 pm

Hi everyone!!

This is my first post here on the Genii forums. I just joined yesterday. I'm 37 years old and have been practicing magic for about 4 years now.

Oddly enough, I just happened upon this thread and it seemed like a good place to make a comment.

I say oddly enough because I just quit The Magic Cafe yesterday. I had been on there for a little over 2 years and had close to 1000 posts. I just couldn't take it anymore. I made quite a few friends there and tried to help others as much as I could. But, it is getting really bad with some of the so-called "Creators" on those boards. I got into a big tussle with one of them over the last few days. This Dude PMed with comments that most would consider rude to say the least. Anyway, Long story short, I reported the PMs (And recived no responce) And posted in the open forum about the rude messages this guy was sending me. He then posted in the same thread with the PM's that had been exchanged. He copied and pasted them and then, (Get this) MODIFIED them to make it seem like he was a saint and I was the one being rude to him. All of this was over an effect that he claimed to have rights to but never published. And still... No responce from staff.

I have heard over there about this situation with Jake. Jake no longer posts on those boards but his account is still active. Mr Mendez started a thread over there a few days ago as well looking for past investors of RNT2. Apparently this guy has been taken to the tune of $10,000 and is looking for other past investors to try and get some anwsers. Unreal.

Justin Miller is another fine example of "When Creators go bad". He has about 20 people after him over his latest joke called "Captured". These 20 people have never recieved thier pre-orders. Justin just posted yesterday that he was going to take "Legal action" against some of them for "Disrupting his life". He is one of the worst examples there. Its an interesting thread and I encourage you to give it a look.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... um=109&152

That thread in and of itself will give you a good idea about what goes on over there.

And as Jim said, Just about anything that is posted against one of the advertisors or "Creators" is sanitized. I can't count how many times I've seen that happen.

Now... Not all of the people or creators over there are bad eggs. Cameron Francis, Tim Trono, Matthew Dowden and others like them are great guys that would bend over backwards to help you out. But after being lied to, (and about after the latest disgrace) I wan't nothing more to do with the whole "Magicians Screwing Magicians" saga.

I know that most of this has nothing to do with the subject at hand. But I saw the conversation leaning in this direction so I figured it wouldn't hurt.

What do you guys think about the new RNT2? It looks like they have some great stuff and I really want a set of good combo cups. The new managment had said that the shop would be open on April, 1st. But I don't think its quite ready yet.

Anyway, sorry for the stupid rant. Just had to get that off my chest.

Edward
Posts: 162
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: California

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Edward » April 15th, 2009, 10:19 pm

Edward;
Actually, I blame Steve Brooks and his henchmen (loosely termed "staff") for much of the deception. His policies of protecting advertisers led to many people being duped. If he had let the complaints stand rather than deleting them, perhaps a number of people might have been spared the sting of being taken. He and crew are hardly "helping magicians". He actively encouraged Jake's and fans' lies, as well as, enabling Jake to continue his con. To me, Brooks and staff seem as guilty as Jake.

The above remarks would get me banned from the Magic Cafe - if I wasn't already banned - no loss.


Exactly! And it's not just with RNT2 it is with others as well. Critics or bad reviews mysteriously disappear on the MC. Members on the MC also mysteriously disappear when they object to some posts.

User avatar
Jolly Roger
Posts: 299
Joined: March 19th, 2008, 5:29 pm
Location: Sedona, Arizona
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Jolly Roger » April 16th, 2009, 1:16 am

What is curious is that I used to be a paid advertiser on the Cafe. However, I was banned after a while, and nobody ever told me why! Very strange! JR
www.ComicMagician.com
www.Magician.US.com
www.BestAssemblies.com
www.SpiritualStage.com

User avatar
Timothysmagic
Posts: 10
Joined: April 15th, 2009, 4:51 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Timothysmagic » April 16th, 2009, 6:04 pm

Sorry about the link above. The lousy good for nothings at the green slime pit just removed the Miller thread. Another one mysteriously vanished.

I imagine Miller was whining like a freaking baby to Brooks.

bagelsandlox
Posts: 78
Joined: March 31st, 2008, 11:25 am

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby bagelsandlox » April 20th, 2009, 1:09 am

Justin Miller has been banned on the Magic Cafe. He went on some psycho raving about getting people because they exposed him as a liar ( he kept telling everyone he mailed them their dvd's and that they never got delivered on 3 different occasions. That darn P.O. stealing magicians dvd's. lol ).

They deleted the the thread it was so bad ( they should have kept the thread so magicians know not to order from him ). If he sent them what they paid for, they wouldn't complain. lol.

ChastainCriswell
Posts: 69
Joined: May 9th, 2008, 6:34 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby ChastainCriswell » April 20th, 2009, 1:42 am

Timothysmagic wrote:Justin Miller is another fine example of "When Creators go bad". He has about 20 people after him over his latest joke called "Captured". These 20 people have never recieved thier pre-orders. Justin just posted yesterday that he was going to take "Legal action" against some of them for "Disrupting his life". He is one of the worst examples there. Its an interesting thread and I encourage you to give it a look.


As some one that knows Justin personally, I have to say it disheartens me to see him in this light. I was sure he has straightned up :( I suppose I was wrong. Prayer is all I can think of.

Chastain Criswell

Edward
Posts: 162
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: California

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Edward » April 20th, 2009, 8:44 pm

ChastainCriswell wrote:
Timothysmagic wrote:Justin Miller is another fine example of "When Creators go bad". He has about 20 people after him over his latest joke called "Captured". These 20 people have never recieved thier pre-orders. Justin just posted yesterday that he was going to take "Legal action" against some of them for "Disrupting his life". He is one of the worst examples there. Its an interesting thread and I encourage you to give it a look.


As some one that knows Justin personally, I have to say it disheartens me to see him in this light. I was sure he has straightned up :( I suppose I was wrong. Prayer is all I can think of.

Chastain Criswell


Accountability would be better that prayer


Return to “Buzz”