Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

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hugmagic
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby hugmagic » December 30th, 2008, 8:23 pm

I, too, am trying to get a problem fixed with a prop I received. I have sent several email as I prefer to have a written record.

I am trying to work with them but it is hard to do when they do not acknowledge your correspondence.

Luckily, I bought it with a credit card and the card company have been notified of the problem Hopefully, this can still be rectified in a professional manner.

Thus far, I cannot say they have lived up the Rings and Things legacy that I am familar with.

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Ray T. Stott
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » January 4th, 2009, 4:59 pm

When Jake took so ill months ago, they put the company up for sale, but because Jake has been the main labor of RnT2, everything fell behind. Thier daughter, who knows how to do things, has been away at college. While trying to finish her college, she was working to try to catch up things at RnT2, and to understand the status of the many things Jake had been working on.

She finished school this month and has been working full time to catch things up.

Now she is starting Law school next month, and will not have the time to devote to the biz, for this reason the family has decided to liquidate the stock of the company, and not make (re-stock) anything else except for those items that are on order, her uncle has flown in to help, catch up on orders, and get them out.



Sorry KF, but the curriculum vitae that you have on "Epiphany Jean", the proprietor's stepdaughter, is so far from truth as to enter the realm of fairy tales.

By her stepfather's own written admission on the interactive blog in mid-September 2008, Epiphany Jean is 18 years old and working on her GED.

According to your statements, the girl genius would have entered the ivy covered walls of higher education at the age 14/15 without benefit of a high school diploma and parleyed her non existent accreditation and mythical baccalaureate degree past a law school admissions board that was ready to overlook her current lacking of any academic credentials and not even possessing a GED, the actual presence of a GED would sink her chances of admittance at any recognized school of law including El Collegio de Shyster in Paraguay.

Away at college? - She resides at a different address than her parents but both addresses are in Exmore, Virginia virtually around the corner from Mum and Dad.

The tip of the iceberg is beginning to emerge - the $100,000+ rest of the iceberg is lurking beneath the water and its existence remains secret due to the sizable group of customers hooked in the four and five figure range keeping their mouths shut as they actually still believe that the merchandise and monies will be returned by this crowd after 21/2 years of waiting, lies and unanswered emails and telephone calls by not "upsetting" or "angering" the people in charge and not receiving anything.

The truth of the matter is that they are all going to receive what the little boy shot at and I know of three individuals whose last shipments were boxes filled with [color:#FF0000]worn out books [/color]instead of their manufactured products.

Toot! Toot! - That was the sound of the product and refund train pulling out of Exmore years ago :)
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave Shepherd » January 4th, 2009, 5:27 pm

Ray T. Stott wrote: By her stepfather's own written admission on the interactive blog in mid-September 2008, Epiphany Jean is 18 years old and working on her GED.

Where is this interactive blog? I cannot find a link to it anywhere on the RNT2 website.

I am asking sincerely. I've had two orders from the clearance list successfully filled in the last month, but there's one pending about which I've heard nothing. I'd like to get any possible insight into this situation.

Link, please?

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Ray T. Stott
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » January 4th, 2009, 10:36 pm

It was wiped in late November.

The "blog" is nothing more than a text announcement board now.

I did a page capture of that particular part of the thread.
It concerned the ongoing progress of some new type of cup(s)

I cannot figure out how to post a *pdf to this forum and that is how I saved the page capture.

There are other members of this forum who verified that they had seen exactly the same thing.

Perhaps one of them will step up to the plate.
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Ray T. Stott
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » January 5th, 2009, 12:34 am

Just forwarded to me:

Epiphany Jean at her high school junior prom in 2008


Epiphany Jean's MySpace describing herself as 18 years of age with a graduation date of '09

Epiphany Jean [size:14pt][color:#FF0000]~(♥)~(Senior 09)~(♥)~[/color][/size] posting to old dad's RnT Magic Inc. MySpace "Friends Comments"

Proprietor's Favorites:Magic, engineering, religious debates. Working with my hands. [size:11pt][color:#FF0000]Making new friends[/color][/size].

ALERT:
Grunge music and a dash of Italian opera playing on this these sites with no way to mute the "sound".
Turn off your speakers. Actually, I caught the tail end of a duet from Aida sung by Leontyne Price and Jon Vickers - and it wasn't too shabby.
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Sebastien L. » January 5th, 2009, 10:54 am

Ray T. Stott wrote:The truth of the matter is that they are all going to receive what the little boy shot at and I know of three individuals whose last shipments were boxes filled with [color:#FF0000]worn out books [/color]instead of their manufactured products.


Are you serious?

What would be the point of the folks at RNT II not only intentionally not filling orders, but also paying shipping to send old worn-out books instead? That doesn't make a lick of sense...

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Ray T. Stott
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » January 5th, 2009, 12:25 pm

[b]Doesn't make any sense to me, either. I have just been informed that the reason this trash was shipped in lieu of product was to "demonstrate" that a heavy box had been shipped by them and obtain a DC that a heavy box was, indeed, received by the addressee. To use the words of another - "That's how a con man works."

But since writing that I now know of [s]another[/s] two more parties that received old books and broken magic props both who are regular posters on this forum.

Whether you believe it or not is immaterial as the facts of these incidences, as personally related to me by the victims, speak for themselves.

Why would I lie about anything that I have written knowing full well that I would be subject to charges of libel?

The truth is an absolute bar to the assertion of libel or slander.
[/b]
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Sebastien L. » January 5th, 2009, 2:09 pm

Wow wow wow. I had started to think that these people acted like con artists... Now this really seems to be the case. I would like for the victims to speak up personally, not through a third party, though.

What you wrote was so strange as to beg disbelief. However after my time dealing with them it's not difficult to believe it either.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Ray T. Stott » January 5th, 2009, 2:24 pm

I would like for the victims to speak up personally, not through a third party, though.


I would both invite and welcome the accounts of others who have been gaffed by this crowd.

Their reasons for not doing so are legion and most have requested that I respect their confidence, which I have done.

Law enforcement will tell you that an individual who has been flim - flammed will often not report it out shame and/or embarrassment.

It's not about the magic; it's about the daily box office gross.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Frank Starsinic » January 5th, 2009, 3:41 pm

As I stated on the cafe (before it got deleted) ...

If you put in an order and are concerned about receiving it, all you need to do is put in a Paypal dispute before the dispute expiration date. That will start the line of communication between you and the seller. Do it before 45 days is up.

Doing this does not mean you want to cancel the order. Nor does it mean you're being a jerk. You just want your stuff.

If they refuse to reply, you get your money back.
If they don't ship the product, you get your money back.

If you do this, both you and RNT2 should come out ok in the end, regarding your particular order.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave Shepherd » January 5th, 2009, 4:11 pm

I am not at all a cheerleader for RNT2, and I also have no particular beef with them. Having heard of their products for several years, I bought stuff from them recently for the first time in my life, when I took advantage of their going-out-of-business clearance.

I will say once again that I've gotten two of the three orders I placed in the last month in a timely fashion. The third order, a set of cups, hasn't arrived yet, but Epiphany Jean responded to my email inquiry within 24 hours.

If something happens and I don't get that order in the next couple weeks, I'll dispute the charge through PayPal as Frank suggests.

I must say, though, that I also would like to hear one of these horror stories (for example, of beat-up books arriving in the mail) directly from a victim rather than third- or fourth-hand. That particular story makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

And I can't see what linking to Epiphany Jean's or Jake's MySpace pages, or to her prom photos, has to do with any of this. In fact, I'm not sure what EJ's age or education status has to do with any of it, either.

Not saying people haven't had bad experience, just that my experience hasn't (yet) been bad. And these other attacks and accusations seem to stem from something more than just customer dissatisfaction.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby JordanB » January 5th, 2009, 4:56 pm

I placed an order on Dec 10th with them and paid immediately. I also sent some emails and made phone calls in the next three weeks and received a reply on none of them.

After the threads on the Cafe "disappeared", I opened a Paypal dispute as Frank suggested and within 24 hours had email confirmation that my items had shipped Priority on Dec 31st.

On Jan 3rd they were on my doorstep. I would under no circumstances do business with them again. I can't prove that the shipping of my items was related to the paypal dispute, but I certainly think that it was.

I suggest if you are having a problem then follow Franks advice and open a dispute with Paypal before you lose your best means of recourse.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby hugmagic » January 6th, 2009, 9:28 pm

I am a person with a direct problem so I will let you hear from me.

I did put in a paypal dispute. I also contacted my Discover card (used for the paypal) to protest the charge. By contacting Discover, I immediately and unknowningly closed the paypal dispute. Now I am waiting to see what Discover card says. They say it can take at least 30 days.

I have heard absolutely nothing from RNT2 concerning the problem with my order.

I think this is an absolute shame and anyone who manages to get anything from them that is properly constructed is darn lucky.

BTW, I am not even going to mention the fact that he stuck it to a friend of mine when he acquired the original RNT tooling. Promises were not kept there either.

I do not usually blast people but enough is enough. It is obvious less than truthful statements are coming out from RNT2.

I am more inclined to buy more things with a credit card for the protection of rip off artists. We just had dinner theater close here in town after 35 years. Two days before they were still selling 2009 season tickets. I know of one person who paid $1300 cash for his tickets and it probably all gone. Use the credit card!!

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Kevin Connolly
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Kevin Connolly » January 6th, 2009, 9:52 pm

Not defending anyone, but it is less than a month since you ordered. I bought an item from a guy on Ebay and it took him 32 days just to mail a photograph.

Your CC should rule in you favor. It's probably better you go with them. I had a dispute this year using Payenemy and it took months to wrap it up. And they guy lurks here too.
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Frank Starsinic » January 7th, 2009, 4:18 am

When the website says "in stock, ready to ship", a month is a long time. Combined with no communication it is a hell of a long time.

I made a trade with RNT2 a couple years ago and never received anything in return. I stopped holding my breath a long time ago.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby JordanL » January 7th, 2009, 12:01 pm

I'm in the middle here. I purchased a number of itmes form the cafe back in the fall. I received about half what was owed me, including 4 sets of cups and 2 chop cups, all these items were excellent. I am still owed a number of items. Its likely too late to open a Paypal dispute.

I also ordered a set of their 12" rings, which I sent back owing to poor workmanship. If not replaced promptly I will open a dispute on these.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby UBIK » January 8th, 2009, 2:17 pm

I recently had a delightful run-in with RNT2 that saw several of my posts deleted from the Magic Cafe.

To cut a long story short, not only did I open a dispute with PayPal, I also picked up the phone and spoke to a customer services representative to make a complaint regarding my experience - duly noted by PayPal. Here's something many people don't know: if PayPal receives enough complaints about a seller they will investigate the seller's practices and have the power to review all transactions going back as far as 180 days. This may offer some assistance for those of you who have exceeded the 45-day dispute cut-off point and are trapped in limbo.

From PayPal:

"We do reserve the right to reopen any claim for investigation within 180
calendar days if we receive multiple complaints about a particular seller.
We will contact you by email if this is the case."

Therefore if you have a legitimate complaint about RNT2, as did I, be it refusal to ship items until dispute closure, erroneous shipping dates, AWOL orders, items missing from your package, props simply not up to standard, etc., pick up the phone and state your case to PayPal ASAP.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 8th, 2009, 3:05 pm

Please post the PayPal phone number.
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave V » January 8th, 2009, 3:32 pm

On the plus side, Epiphany posted on RNT2's blog that anyone who wants a satin finish (much less time consuming) can get their product faster by letting them know.

I suspect that their average lead time is more than the 45 days that Paypal allows, so it's either trust them to get it to you, or open a dispute and they'll gladly cancel your order, giving them time to get some of the other orders out the door.

I know it shouldn't be like this, but they seem to be trying to dig themselves out the hole they found themselves in.
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Chris Aguilar » January 8th, 2009, 3:39 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Please post the PayPal phone number.

Finding the PayPal Phone number on their website is quite tricky and some users have suggested this may be because PayPal prefers receiving requests by email and wants to reduce the number of calls. You can contact PayPal customer service at the toll-free contact numbers below:

Toll Free for Business/Premier, USA & Canada: 1-888-221-1161 / 1-888-204-4481

Personal Accounts: 1-402-935-2050

PayPal UK: 0870 7307 191

They are open between the following hours:

4:00 AM PDT to 10:00 PM PDT Monday through Friday
6:00 AM PDT to 8:00 PM PDT on Saturday and Sunday

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Paul Amerson » January 10th, 2009, 10:47 pm

I ordered a "La Petite Chop Cup" and a set of 8" Linking Rings on 12/11, and paid $12.50 for 2 day delivery. Both items were "in stock and ready to ship." Today, I received the chop cup. No Linking Rings yet. It is quite poorly done (in comparison to the Riser micro chop cup that I use) with a large protrusion in the bottom where the magnet is. It will do -- I will use it as a backup to my Riser cup. The balls are not very good quality -- loose knitting, and the bag is not near the quality that was shown in the photos. There was no final load fruit, as advertised. It was worth about half of what I paid for it. From reading here, I know better than to try to get it fixed. Apparently, I am fortunate to have received this at all.

A RNT2 representative chastised me last summer for comparing their micro chop cup to Riser's. He slammed the quality of Riser's cup and stated that since I had never purchased anything from RNT2, I was in no position to criticize them. Now I am qualified: no comparison to Riser's. Riser's is far superior. I should have gone with my instincts and never done business with them. This shipment was probably slightly better than a box of old books, but that really depends on what the titles of the books would be.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 10th, 2009, 11:30 pm

I can't imagine why anyone would order anything from this company.
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 11th, 2009, 12:09 am

I rolled the dice and ordered some of the coin purses they had on clearance (but I did figure that these were not something they manufactured, so I liked my odds). I received them with no issues.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Roger M. » January 11th, 2009, 12:53 am

Paul Amerson wrote: no comparison to Riser's. Riser's is far superior.


Riser is a master, and there's not much I've seen in the magic marketplace to equal the quality of his products.

My set of Riser Standards is absolutely flawless.

I have one each of the three different types of Jim's card punches, and they're as much pieces of fine jewelry as they are magic apparatus.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Kent Gunn » January 11th, 2009, 2:17 am

I've seen Riser's cups they are the work of a consummate craftsman.

Now for something hopefully not too far off this thread.


I came up with, what I like to think, is an innovative cups and balls routine. I contacted, the then head of RNT2 about the Mendoza cups he was selling. I mentioned exactly what little idiosyncrasies my routine required. Jake assured me the Mendoza cups would work. Five hundred bucks later (the routine requires an oddball set of balls as well) I had three cups and a handful of balls that didn't do the routine for squat. Jake and I had discussed going into business together to make up sets of cups. I deferred mostly because he had already cost me 500 bucks and not worked with me, to my satisfaction. In fairness to Jake and RNT2 they certainly garnered all the information they'd need from the document I've written and they received, from me, as a present to Jake, to make a functional set of cups.

Roll forward some months.

A pal congratulated me on having cups with my name on them available from RNT2.

Jake, Epiphany nor the man in the freakin' moon had had any discussion, agreement or remuneration discussion with me. The ad picture clearly showed how many balls were needed and the color combination I use.

For those of you who have no idea what I'm ranting about:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7eyia ... s_creation

That's an old run-through. I pulled the nice and clean version off youtube.

So I've gotten everything I ever ordered from RNT2. I realize others feel they've have worse service that I experienced.

I wouldn't send Rings and Things 2 any marketable ideas though. They'll take any excuse to appropriate your ideas. They have not, to this date replied to me directly. They have no excuse nor reason for their actions, in my mind.

I do mention RNT2 as a possible supplier of cups and balls in my manuscript, in their defense. I stated, "Jake can make up cups for this trick."

If you buy the cups from RNT2, please realize they've stolen and are marketing something I hold very dear. If they had simply called me, or written one email asking me to take part, none of this would've happened.

I'm afraid I cannot clearly state the RNT2 Fun Shop Cups and Balls will work with my routine. I was not consulted in any design characteristics, I was not made privy to a set to evaluate.

I do know Brett Sherwood, through a number of business interactions, has always supplied my cups and balls requirements. If you choose to do my routine.

www.sherwoodmagic.com

Is the only person, authorized by me, to supply cups. His are a little pricey. They're worth every penny.

I am not actively marketing the routine. I do have it written up. I sold about a hundred copies. I regret that tremendously.
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Cugel » January 11th, 2009, 3:11 am

Cugel wrote:
Brandon Hall wrote:I don't think anyone has ever questioned the quality of the products they put out.


They have certainly questioned the provenance. Ask James Riser or Brett Sherwood if they were happy having their designs copied.


Kent - see my earlier post. Rip offs are nothing new for these people. (I hope you get your issue sorted).

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby hugmagic » January 11th, 2009, 11:30 am

As for the satin finish, it is junk. that is the problem on the Mandarian Transformation. It is not evenly applied. On the covers, there is none at all on the under edges of the tops. Dust is embedded in the clear coat.

On the website, you have no option on shipping. Air is the only way. I live two states away so it would be very easy to ship UPS and much cheaper. But when I received my 12" rings (poorly made), they were jammed (I do mean jammed) into a flat rate Priority Mail box. That certainly air mail. The Mandarian Transformaiton came parcel post.

I will call Paypal and pursue this matter further.

It is obvious, there is nothing honorable about this firm or its owners. I also know the real story how he obtained the dies and patterns from the original Rings and Things and the broken agreements there.

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave V » January 11th, 2009, 10:33 pm

From what I understand, there's no clear coat on the satin finish they're offering as a compromise for delayed shipping. It's a bare metal brushed finish before they put in the hours of hand polishing the items. Some of us like it that way.
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Edward » January 11th, 2009, 11:11 pm

I have never ordered for this company. Have they always had such a horrible reputation, or just since the owner fell ill?

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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Dave Dorsett » January 12th, 2009, 12:05 pm

From the "it works for me but I wouldn't suggest it for everyone" department, I heard about the sale and placed an order BEFORE checking into this thread.

I ordered just after Christmas but had seen nothing after the PayPal proscribed seven days for delivery. Having read these posts, I let RnT2 know I would be opening a dispute and what my timeline would be before escalating. I also referenced this thread and told them I would report back positively or negatively to it.

Today I received my complete order which was sent in on Dec. 28. Everything was there and the workmanship on some pieces, notably the copper rice bowls, was excellent. On other pieces, especially the Okito & Boston box, not so much but passable. It certainly does not equal the quality of the original Rings n' Things pieces I have.

I won't be taking the chance again and I feel badly for those who have longstanding orders unfulfilled. I just wanted to hold up my end on the transaction and let others know there may be hope. "Epiphany Jean" (who I know not at all) did seem like she was trying in my case and that's all I can address.
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Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Brett Sherwood » January 12th, 2009, 5:22 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I can't imagine why anyone would order anything from this company.


I agree completely with Richard Kaufman regarding his above quote and without appearing immediately biased (because I too produce a set of cups), but instead because I too have had my cups copied by rnt2. (All to be explained).

I'm happy to be posting here today - my first in years on this site, not because I dislike the Genii forum, on the contrary I find it stimulating, but more precise because my work keeps me travelling and performing constantly and I seldom have the extra time to participate, but I hope to be more visible on the Genii forum in the future with time permitting.

I was notified about this rnt2 thread on the Genii forum from several respectable friends in the magic fraternity and decided to voice my personal grievance at the hands of rnt2, because that is what this forum thread is about...rnt2. I have corresponded with many people who have also been effected personally by the lack of ethics by rnt2 i.e., Mike Brazill, James Riser, Kent Gunn and yours truly - to name just a few... Unlike the cafe where posts 'disappear' frequently that question the business dealings and ethics of rnt2; I believe here I will be offered the opportunity to voice my disapproval without the fear of censorship from for those that wish to learn the REAL TRUTH about my personal situation with rnt2.

My name is Brett Sherwood and I designed some original cups. These took me over two years of heavy struggles to finally get onto the magic marketplace. Last year we saw the emergence of rnt2s first abomination of my design which rnt2 called the Princess Cups. These were an exact copy of my cups shape, only altered fractionally in height with the obvious recess reduction and bead replacement mathematically necessary in order to still hold a regulation tennis ball. Just recently Epiphany openly confessed that Jake TOOK my design intentionally on the cafe, (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... 15&start=0). This because I apparently (?) took Jakes ball design? This was completely fictitious, as I will prove presently and was an excuse used by Jake to attack me further and use as justification to copy my cups.

Here are two links. The first shows where, when and how Jake learned about my new Deluxe Ball design which I first show cased at both the 2004 IBM convention in Cleveland and the 2004 SAM convention in St. Louis. I also first met Richard Kaufman at one of these conventions and later at the MAGIC LIVE convention in Las Vegas. No one had ever sold balls EXACTLY like my Deluxe Balls. Metallic thread had been used before, but not EXACTLY in the way I applied it with a very subtle and elegant sparkle to compliment my Engraved Silver Cups. This all changed after St. Louis 2004, where I first met Mike Brazill, who at the time worked with rnt2 (please note: Mikes red shirt with embroidered rnt2 logo and my SAM dealers convention badge with my various original Deluxe Ball designs, which Mike told me over the telephone later and of which I still have an original email stating that I had them first Jake got the idea from him and started marketing them commercially a couple months later. When I confronted Jake about this he went ballistic and accused me of taking them from him ? Here is the photo evidence showing myself with Mike Brazill with my Deluxe Balls. There were no metallic thread balls at the rnt2 stand in St. Louis 2004.
Image

The next photos belong to ME, which Jake copied without my permission, and placed on a crochet website in an attempt to locate the exact thread I was using to construct my balls. The hands in the pictures are MINE taken from my web site by Jake. Please note these photos were placed on this crochet website to search for my matching thread THREE YEARS AFTER I apparently copied their ball design all nonsense fabricated by Jake (Jacob Zimmerman) and this is FACT!
(http://crochet.meetup.com/boards/thread/2881263)

Only a few days ago after the rnt2 company was apparently plagued by serious illness, death in the family, weather issues, computer failures, shipping problems and a business for sale sign up - rnt2 continually surprise everyone with all the EXTRA time they seem to conjure up in order to produce yet another set of Princess cups makes one wonder just what is REALLY going on down at rnt2 doesnt it?? As someone already suggested it smacks of con. Today I placed a post on the caf and it has already vanished from the cafe, within the hour, because it stated the facts counter to rnt2, which I will briefly reiterate here.

Briefly and similar to what I had posted on the caf today which later vanished

THE FACTS: The profile of my cup (Brett Sherwood Cups) is ORIGINAL and distinct in ALL of the cups and balls history this is FACT! No cups for the cups and balls have ever looked EXACTLY like my cups. Epiphany herself even admits that her father took my cup design, which cancels out any argument of originality in their suggestion of originality in the Princess cup design on the part of rnt2. The Princess cup exists, simply because it is a copy of MY cup design! If my cup design had never been made the Princess cups would NOT exist - PERIOD!! (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... 15&start=0) (Eight posts down from top last paragraph). Anyone who has ever dealt with me knows I am NEVER unprofessional; always answer emails and all my testimonials on my web site (www.sherwoodmagic.com) will vouch for my integrity and prove that it is rnt2, not I, who are totally unprofessional.

Borrowing the exact profile of my cup without my permission is not ethical. Rnt2 have simply put on a different recess so what?? No big deal this is not advancing the art this is taking my EXACT PROFILE and adding a simple recess. This is exactly as Epiphany herself said (link above) her dad TOOK my design. It takes only a second to make a decision like putting in a more shallow recess onto an ORIGINAL shape cup (which took me YEARS of my life to design) - then rnt2 calling it their own... To illustrate this reasoning (as an example only); if anyone of you were unscrupulous enough and wanted to copy any design of rnt2s cup designs (which I do NOT suggest at all, because this is totally unethical) you too could simply just add a different recess to any of their cups be it the Monte cup, Foxy, Foxy II.V, Mendoza, etc and call it by a different name does this make it an original cup design? NO IT DOESNT! Would rnt2 like this to happen to all the cups they sell NO THEY WOULDNT! Would I do this NO I WOULDNT! It is totally unethical and why does rnt2 want my single ONE cup design? They already have many successful cup designs I only have ONE. I MUST fight for the survival of my one cup design business.

Image
My ORIGINAL cup design (above) - Brett Sherwood Cup
Image
rnt2 Princess Cups (above - [please copyright photo to rnt2 - a coutesy not extended to myself of photos Jake took and used without permission of my hands and balls above])

THE SAME PROFILES!

Reducing the height of MY cup slightly by reducing the recess was the ONLY way rnt2 could take MY cup profile and still fit a tennis ball under it and the beads were altered accordingly. Expanding it would only look silly and serve no purpose. I already had made a reduced version of this 'Squatty Sherwood' as prototype to my AUTHENTIC and ORIGINAL Brett Sherwood Cup design, but this Squatty Sherwood was deemed inferior and was REJECTED by myself as inferior. I have NEVER given rnt2 permission to produce a Squatty Sherwood cup using my ORIGINAL cup profile and suggest out of respect to the originator of this cup design (yours truly) that they remove this offending Princess cup design from sale immediately.

Thank you for allowing me to post here and any support would be most appreciated. My Brett Sherwood Cup business is on the line so I have no option, but to fight for my design and the advancement of the art.

Yours Sincerely,
Brett Sherwood

Magic Randy
Posts: 191
Joined: July 6th, 2008, 5:24 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Magic Randy » January 12th, 2009, 5:32 pm

I was one of the first to buy the Sherwood Cups. I have the Silver Cups, Silver & Gold Cups, Silver Chop Cup, Silver & Gold Chop Cup, and all of the Deluxe balls.

I can assure you, Brett is excellent to deal with, has high integrity, is very communicative, and his products are both original and high quality.

Levity
Posts: 4
Joined: January 7th, 2009, 9:38 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Levity » January 12th, 2009, 5:54 pm

After having bought a number of RNTII sets (6) before the rot set in, and a set from Brett Sherwood, I have no hesitation in saying that Mr. Sherwood's are without doubt the BEST cups I have used. They are superb.

Geoffrey
"I suggest you watch very carefully..."

Pepka
Posts: 412
Joined: May 4th, 2008, 9:40 am

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Pepka » January 12th, 2009, 6:36 pm

I'll throw in my support for Brett. I own 2 sets of his cups and they are far superior to any props I own. Also, when I received an order from him, there was a mistake, the final load balls were too big for the cups. All it took was one email and new balls were on the way before I even had a chance to send them back, (which Brett paid the postage for.) I would not hesitate in the slightest to give Brett more of my hard earned money. (Where's that wand?)

RNT2 on the other hand....Jake had listed several chop cups for sale at pretty low prices. I bought a cocobolo cup and when it arrived, it had 2 huge cracks that where very sloppily covered with epoxy. This was right about the time his health took a bad dip and he was impossible to reach. Epiphany offered me a full refund and I sent them back. I told her don't bother with a refund, mistakes happen. I'll just take store credit. I applied the credit in early december when I ordered a set of their Paul Fox cups. I'm not a serious collector, but always liked that classic design and with them closing, now seemed like the right time. Epiphany confirmed that the cups where "in stock and ready to go" on Dec. 9. I sent payment and heard nothing for weeks. I received a stock response to an email on Dec. 27 saying that they were backed up with orders because of their fire sale. If they were in stock, what would the hold up be? Last week, I decided I had enough waiting and since I didn't really need them, my money could be better spent elsewhere and just asked for a refund. Instead, I got a shipping confirmation # and received the cups 3 days later. They are nice cups, but I don't think they are worth all this aggravation.

Also, if they are closing up shop so soon, why on earth would they continue to tinker with this "princess" design? If you want a really worthwhile project, how about you keep working and get out the orders to your customers who have been waiting for weeks and months for product that is "in stock and ready to go".

Brett Sherwood
Posts: 9
Joined: January 12th, 2009, 2:33 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Brett Sherwood » January 12th, 2009, 7:00 pm

Magic Randy wrote:I was one of the first to buy the Sherwood Cups. I have the Silver Cups, Silver & Gold Cups, Silver Chop Cup, Silver & Gold Chop Cup, and all of the Deluxe balls.

I can assure you, Brett is excellent to deal with, has high integrity, is very communicative, and his products are both original and high quality.

Hi Magic Randy
I remember you! Nice to hear from you after all these years and yes - you were one of my very first buyers. Thank you for your very kind remarks and support - much appreciated.

Mentioned above in this thread you will see some photos which were found on Jake Zimmerman's personal MySpace website of Epiphany. I looked over this website myself and discovered an interesting photo Jake placed on his www website for the entire world to see (below). If you haven't yet seen this - here it is...
You will need to copy and paste it and look at Jake's photo 4 of 17 in his 'Odds & Ends' file. This is the direct link below.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.c ... D=26527450

If you cannot view this file link 'live' Jake might have deleted it from his www.MySpace file, because it is very sinister, so I've copied it here for prosperity. This photo shows how Jake's mind REALLY works:

This below photo is from Jake's MySpace and is referring to: Mike Brazill, James Riser and yours truly and pretty bizarre it is!!
Image

This is obviously how and what Jake REALLY thinks of his competition or those that have REAL designing and or spinning talents. He obviously perceives us as threats...?

Despite the above disturbing photo it is nice to hear from you and heres wishing you a very Happy 2009!
Kind Regards,
Brett Sherwood

Magic Randy
Posts: 191
Joined: July 6th, 2008, 5:24 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Magic Randy » January 12th, 2009, 7:39 pm

Magic Randy wrote:I was one of the first to buy the Sherwood Cups. I have the Silver Cups, Silver & Gold Cups, Silver Chop Cup, Silver & Gold Chop Cup, and all of the Deluxe balls.

I can assure you, Brett is excellent to deal with, has high integrity, is very communicative, and his products are both original and high quality.


For completeness I should mention that I have most if not all of the James Riser cups as well. They are wonderful. I have the Riser Jumbo Cups, Riser Mini-Traditionals, Riser Mini Cups, and Riser Standard Cups.

Randy

Frank Starsinic
Posts: 331
Joined: January 23rd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Davis,CA
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Frank Starsinic » January 12th, 2009, 8:19 pm

To support Brett the most effective way I can, I've decided to get a set of Copper Smooths and a matching chop cup.

Send me a paypal inovice, Brett!

Frank

Levity
Posts: 4
Joined: January 7th, 2009, 9:38 pm

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Levity » January 12th, 2009, 9:25 pm

Frank,

They're the same Sherwoods I have. You won't be disappointed.

Geoffrey
"I suggest you watch very carefully..."

Frank Starsinic
Posts: 331
Joined: January 23rd, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Davis,CA
Contact:

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Frank Starsinic » January 13th, 2009, 12:13 pm

I just sent payment 10 minutes ago and I already feel like I've been waiting a month. I am very excited to get these.

Bob Walder
Posts: 121
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Rings 'N' Thing II going belly up

Postby Bob Walder » January 13th, 2009, 12:54 pm

I bought one of the early sets of the Sherwood silver cups - they are of outstanding quality. So much so I also bought a smooth set and kicked myself for not getting the gold ones. Luckily I got a chance to make up for that when Brett did the second run of his gold cups.

Unfortunately the engraving of the limited edition number was poorly done on these, making them rough and liable to scratch the cup underneath when stacking. I mentioned this to Brett who immediately offered to give me a full refund or have them returned at his expense to be polished down. Amazing service, and exactly the choices you would have wanted as a customer, but you don't usually get what you want in this world...

In contrast, I have had an order for cups outstanding since October/November 2006 with RNT 2 - never any replies from Jake and I am out $250 (although I have not tried Epiphany yet).

Given the health issues I gave up on expecting the cups to be produced, but it would not take much for RNT to refund my money via Paypal would it? Purchasing a company involves buying the "good will" of that company - I would think RNT2 has precious little of that left by now.....

Bob Walder


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