Magic Castle has been sold?

[Ruben Padilla]

This is not a joke, and I don't know how reliable my source is, but I just heard that the Magic Castle is now in escrow, and plans are to turn it into a bread and breakfast. Apparently the deal was kept very hush hush so that dues could be received for as long as possible.

I hope I'm wrong...

Anybody else know about this?

[Nicholas Carifo]

Since it's now 5 days past april fools day, I will assume this is not a joke post and is perceived serious by the poster....

Where did you hear this information?

Although it is no secret that the magic castle property and the entire hillside of properties in hollywood has been on the market for months now, it was my understanding that the property owners were asking any developer to agree before sale to keep the Magic Castle and Yamashiro restaurant in tact and in operation while developing the land surrounding it.

Has this changed? And has it really been sold and in escrow?

[Gord]

The land the Castle is on is worth a lot. No business in their right mind would take a valuable piece of land and turn it into a bed and breakfast. Unless it was the best damn bed and breakfast ever!
So my vite is for no.

Gord

[Richard Kaufman]

I'm out here in LA for the Castle awards banquet and the word is, indeed, that the land and Magic Castle have been sold for $70 million dollars. Have also heard that the Castle will and AMA will stay.

[Steve Bryant]

Richard, who won the awards? No word yet.

[Nicholas Carifo]

I received a short note from Whit Haydn, who is also the Vice President of the AMA/Magic Castle. Whit tells me:

"The hillside, Yamashiro and the Castle have all been sold to a single buyer. We expect to have a long term lease for the Magic Castle with the new owners. Everything seems to be going very well."

So things look good, it seems.

Thanks Whit.

Nick

[Brandon Hall]

Doesn't $70 Million sound low?

[Dustin Stinett]

That was the original price estimated by the media experts when the properties hit the seller's block. And that was before this economic downturn we're in. So I'd say the price is just about right.

Dustin

[Pete Biro]

A number of members are upset that the word was released here and they didn't know about it. They feel the board should have notified the membership. Well, they did, but many don't know how to navigate the AMA BBS.... tsk tsk... news scoop for Genii BBS.

[Steve Bryant]

So how do you navigate the AMA BBS? I still do not see news of the sale under Announcements or under Forum/announcements or any other topic. As late as this afternoon, the AMA award winners were not there either, though that is there now.

Also be nice to know, if anyone does yet, whether the Castle will take back food and beverage as part of the new lease.

Yes, big scoop for Genii BBS

[Martin Kaplan]

Steve:

Click on AT THE MAGIC CASTLE.

-Marty

[Steve Bryant]

Thanks, Marty. Found it there. I notice it's a thread started after the news already appeared on the Genii forum. One guy makes the case that we could have learned the news earlier from watching the webcast of a general meeting, but that's a stretch in logic and no excuse for not putting such important news in the Announcements.

Genii forum still rocks and rules.

[Pete Biro]

Had dinner with Milt last night and he says, "Rumors abound, nothing firm (yet)".

[Rich Cowley]

Steve, I'm the guy who suggested that AMA members watch the Webcast of the General Meeting. I'm not sure I "stretched any logic" when making that suggestion; if Joe Member were to get involved more (instead of waiting for information to be spoon-fed to him/her in multiple media), our Board wouldn't so often be caught between "they're keeping us in the dark" and "I don't have time to read all this information".

Case in point: There were several other announcements made at the General Meeting (some affecting the club just as directly as the sale of the land), and yet no member seems to mind (out loud, anyway) the absence of those official announcements elsewhere. How, then, can one distinguish your (or anyone's) gauge of what's important versus not?

I'm also not sure why you (or anyone besides Milt and the AMA Board of Directors) consider the physical sale of the land (and the identity of the new landlord) such important news. After all, the only real news that affects the AMA is the announcement of a new lease we sign with that landlord, no?

I don't want to get into a war of words here. (Frankly, I try to avoid posting on forum threads like this one, which just thrash partial facts around like a pit bull with a car tire.) It's just that I just bristle when folks discuss AMA business in front of non-members, and often use partial information when they do it.

[Steve Bryant]

Re: "and yet no member seems to mind (out loud, anyway) the absence of those official announcements elsewhere"

Then let me say it out loud: I mind.

I was actually referring to Altamirano as he was most strident, but that's irrelevant as you seem to hold to the same crazy idea. It's nuts to think a member should have to root through meeting minutes or watch a webcast on the off chance something important might crop up. The Castle and its environs have been for sale for months. That would involve months of "looking." There is a section on the web site called Annoucements. It takes only a sentence to mention that the property has been sold. This is STILL not there. Spoon fed? What the hell kind of attitude is that? I had been accessing the site frequently over the weekend to learn who won the awards, so would have noticed if any word was available. I was not attempting to avoid being "involved."

The fate of the Castle has an effect on everyone in magic, both for members and non-members, and the sale of the land is potentially extremely important to that fate. If you can't regard that as important, I'm certain I can't persuade you.

Geez!

[Rich Cowley]

(And now, folks, you see why I don't post on threads like this very much...)

Steve, thanks for calling my perspective "crazy" and "nuts". It's always nice to know one is loved.

If AMA members like you can't be bothered with attending a General Meeting (either in person, or online afterwards) or even read minutes of Board meetings, why do you propose we should get volunteers to spend time condensing and re-presenting each and every news item that's already been presented? -- You seem to have lots of time, (being able to check a Website over and over again over the weekend, while the producers of the event caught up on sleep on Sunday); care to volunteer as an AMA publicist? (I happen to know we're looking for A Few Good Keyboards.)

And, repeating one of my original points: Let's assume the land purchase transaction was completely finished, the escrow had closed, and the new landlord's identity is finally publicized. Until the AMA signs a new lease and/or relocates, what possible use can a "Joe Member" have with information on the sale alone? (Hint: The same use he had with the knowledge that the land was for sale in the first place; nothing but fuel for gossip, like the B&B firecracker that started this thread.)

I agree with you that the fate of the Castle has an effect on everyone in Magic. But, I don't agree that every little bit of preambling information has to be specifically re-packaged for members who seek the Easy Road to Information.

[Steve Bryant]

Thanks, Rich. We know where you stand.

[Brian Glicker]

I think a lot depends upon your definition of "sold". Simply put the Castle hasn't been "sold". While there may be an offer on the property, and while that offer may have been accepted "there's many a slip twixt cup and lip." We do not know if the buyre has proper funding, available money, conditions of purchase have been met. We don't even know if the offer is a real one with the funds to back it up.
One thing, however, is certain. As of 11 o,clock this morning the Castle has NOT been sold.

[Dustin Stinett]

Rich,

I think an announcement is all Steve is asking for, and its a legitimate request. Its about transparency versus appearing to have something to hide.

I am a board member of medium sized HOA. While the minutes of our meetings are available to everyone, we recognize that there are some issues that homeowners will want to know about while the vast majority is housekeeping board crapola. So, in these cases, we send out a letter to the homeowners (our version of the Internet still involves envelopes and postage stamps) with just the important stuff.

Because of this, our constituents know their Board communicates directly with them whenever something important comes up versus burying things in the minutes and hiding behind the its your responsibility to find out what we do for you argument. The fact is; we work for them, they dont work for us. The job of communicating is our responsibility. Just saying its in the public record is not communicating. (For example: The best congressman my district ever had sent us quarterly updates about his votes on important legislation. It was this transparency that kept him in office until he retired. During his career, he probably had the most informed electorate in the country.)

The sale of the Castle is an example of this newsworthiness and as such should have been posted in the announcements by those with the power to do so. Instead, its left buried in the minutes.

Additionally, your comment that it doesnt matter until the lease is signed (or not) is nonsense. Obviously there are next steps after the sale. When companies that come to an agreement in principle to buy and sell each other, they make it known even before the SEC or other government bodies approve or veto the sale. I see no difference here. If the Glovers have reached an agreement in principle with someone, its news.

And I will keep this belief of yours, that its strictly up to me to discover how the board is conducting business of the AMA, in mind the next time you run for either board.

Regards,
Dustin

[Richard Kaufman]

Since Rich Cowley finds it so demeaning to post on boards like this, I've just deleted him. So long.

[Pete McCabe]

Richard,

You should reinstate Rich Cowley's membership. His posts were not antagonistic nor hysterical. He stated his opinion clearly and without offense. He knows a tremendous amount about what's going on at the castle and cares about it tremendously. Your stated reason for deleting him is frankly absurd. His absence diminishes the forum, in a tiny but unmistakable way. The way you deleted him diminishes the forum in a large and significant way.

[Terrence]

Agree. (BTW Pete your book is terrific!)

Jason Bomar's distillation of Gay's comments on the MC Forum (on the sale thread) about the sale sound real close to what I remember from the general meeting.

On a lighter note, what's a Bread and Breakfast? (see first post...)

[Dustin Stinett]

Terrence,

A B&B is what was once called a rooming house. Generally they are large old homes that have been converted into a commercial enterprise. One rents a room, which is usually nicely appointed with its own small bath. In the main community room(s), guests can gather and socialize. In the morning, a full breakfast is served. Its a fantastic experience if youve never done it. (Take your significant other to Santa Barbara for a long weekend at a B&B and see how many points that earns you!)

One more comment on the transparency issue: Its official announcements (versus members working for the information and spreading their interpretation thereof) that prevent the spread of misinformation and rumors. A lesson few in these positions ever seem to learn.

Dustin

[Scotto]

Hi Richard,
Rich's comment we "(And now, folks, you see why I don't post on threads like this very much...)" He was talking about the Thread not the over all board.

Scotto

[Richard Kaufman]

My decision stands. I've known Rich Cowley for 15 to 20 years, since he lived in Allentown, Pennsylvania. I didn't like what he wrote, then, either.

[Grant McSorley]

Dustin,
I think Terrence was referring to the fact that B&B stands for Bed (not Bread) and Breakfast.

Grant

[Pete McCabe]

So is that the official criteria for getting kicked off now? Used to be you had to do something actually bad, like post repeated insults or falsehoods or abusing the forum. Now there isn't even a warning, just Richard didn't like one thing you posted -- even if what Richard complains about is a complete misquote and mischaracterization of what you said -- and you're off. This is not progress.

Meanwhile, to everyone who is criticizing the castle for not making an official announcement: An announcement about what, exactly? The Glovers are negotiating with prospective buyers. The AMA is not directly involved in the sale. Do you want the AMA to officially announce that there is a rumor that the Glovers are close to making a deal? The Glovers would be rightly furious if the AMA made an official announcement like that.

[Steve Bryant]

The announcement, Pete, that Gay made a big deal of in the webcast and said that Bruce Cervon would have loved this news, is that "a buyer has been selected." SHE thought it was news, and if it was not an official announcement in the context of the meeting, then what was it? She further said that there would be months of red tape, so the sale wouldn't be finalized for some time.

My objection was not so much with the lack of the announcement, though that was certainly a part of it, but with the arrogance that all members should have to work for news, not have it "spoon fed" to them. That the term "Joe Member" is even a part of Rich's vocabulary speaks volumes.

It isn't fair keep at Rich since he can't respond, and I don't want to, but I still find the attitude, whether it's yours or whoevers, to still be crazy, nuts, whatever you want to call it.

[Dustin Stinett]

Dustin,
I think Terrence was referring to the fact that B&B stands for Bed (not Bread) and Breakfast.

Grant

Oh crap!

Yes...Dustin...can...read...

(Stands behind the point factor of Santa Barbara B&Bs!)

[Terrence]

Dustin -- I've just sent an email to Robert Lamoureux, requesting that the BOD issue a statement.

Don't know what if anything they should say Pete, but there's no harm in asking. Maybe Gay misspoke?

(Dustin -- your points do stand :-)

[Maurice Newman]

Interesting reaction to a post that to me appeared to put forth one mans opinion on things. Guess its time to dust off my copy of Fahrenheit 451 and read it again. And I thought it was fiction. Silly me.

[Dustin Stinett]

Generally speaking, the longer I wait before replying to an emotionally charged issue, the more unlikely it is that I will reply at all. Its not that I lose interest, I just realize that replying exacerbates instead of resolving the issue. Often such issues have no resolution and we end up in a circular argument. I always think about Peewee Herman saying, I know you are, but what am I?

But the longer I sit on this one, the more it has crawled under my skin; I cannot let it go, even though maybe I should.

Screw it.

So is that the official criteria for getting kicked off now? ... This is not progress.

Progress toward what, Pete? An open dialogue on issues? Like the one that Rich Cowley, by his own comments, would prefer be kept in the confines of the Castles BBS (as, apparently, would you)? And, in fact, would rather it remain sequestered within the minutes of a board meeting, therefore supporting a policy of non-transparency (as, apparently, do you)?

I ask again, progress toward what?

Im amused by those who demand fairness and opennessbut only as long as it fits their own agendaand then criticizes someone who exercises this same privilege.

Obviously there is a history between Richard Kaufman and Rich Cowley. Richard exercised his absolute right to exclude him from participation here.

But note that he announced it.

And then he clarified his position (without getting into the gory details that is no one elses business).

On this issue, hes done far more than has the AMA Board has on the issue of the sale of the Magic Castleandagain, by his own admissionmore than Rich Cowley would do.

Dustin

[Scotto]

From the Magic Castle Forums from Milt himself

"I just read the Genii comments and these comments. I have had no official word from the Glover family on the sale. Until I get a phone call from Tom Glover the rumor mill will keep grinding. At this point everything I've heard is positive. If you want the latest news have lunch at the Castle on Fridays. Milt"

[Dustin Stinett]

Did you catch that Steve? Just hop on a plane (just make sure its not American Airlines), come out here and have lunch at the Castle this Friday. Ill ditch work and meet you there. :grin:

Dustin

[JimChristianson]

"Welcome to MCB&B! Would you like a complimentary double undercut with your turndown service?"

[Steve Bryant]

Lunch sounds great if Milt is buying. Actually, my favorite part of the Magic Castle web site is Milt's Friday lunch menus. His recent report of a stroll up the street for his morning paper was classic comedy writing.

[Dustin Stinett]

To PaperShuffler:

To borrow (and paraphrase) an expression, your comments aren't even wrong.

[Terrence]

OK. Can't wait -- going tonight.

If anything helpful is mentioned maybe I'll be allowed to take notes.

("Is that a Sharpie in your pocket or ...")

[Richard Kaufman]

PaperShuffle is now banned as well. Here is the little note he will see the next time he tries to log into the Forum:

"Don't [censored] on the living room floor of your host. On the Genii Forum, I'm your host. Calling me 'Richard the Butcher' is [censored] on the floor of my living room. Goodbye."

And even though it was long before the Internet, what Rich Cowley wrote was published in a very public place: one that didn't give me the opportunity to respond. And, yes, I've remembered it for a very long time. It was one of the more miserable experiences of what, for me, has been a damn happy life in magic.

[Magic Newswire]

Nicely said Richard.. The Genii forums may be "public," but they are still the Genii Forums not a Usenet Newsgroup. BTW..Papershuffle, 15 years ago, alt.magic did exist on Usenet and you can still go there and say whatever you want. And, you will be as ignored as most trolls are anywhere