Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Guest » January 5th, 2008, 3:20 pm

Richard, do you have any more info on the Cursi notes for Vernon, I have a set, half being from Facett Ross, the other says they are from Roger Klause.

Jeff

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 5th, 2008, 6:24 pm

No more info.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Guest » January 8th, 2008, 6:04 am

Re; The Rakinakis Cut.

From the decription in the book, it appears to be very similar to the running cut Bill Malone uses on his latest DVDs.

One thing puzzles me however - why is a slip cut performed from under the final card of the top stock before then placing this down as a single card, and finishing with slapping the lower portion on top. Why not just take the final small packet off the top, followed by slapping the lower portion on top. Does the slip cut add to the deceptiveness in some way that I am missing?


Dave

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Guest » January 8th, 2008, 6:06 am

Re; The Rakinakis Cut.

From the decription in the book, it appears to be very similar to the running cut Bill Malone uses on his latest DVDs.

One thing puzzles me however - why is a slip cut performed from under the final card of the top stock before then placing this down as a single card, and finishing with slapping the lower portion on top. Why not just take the final small packet off the top, followed by slapping the lower portion on top. Does the slip cut add to the deceptiveness in some way that I am missing?


Dave

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Guest » January 8th, 2008, 9:55 am

Jonesey:

Regarding the "Rakinakis Cut", I had the same question. I have been doing this running cut for some time after seeing Malone do it several years ago.

After reading Cervon's description of the move and adding the slip cut rather than drawing off the full packet, it does appear to me that this very minor difference in handling does add something to the deceptiveness of the cut. I am not sure why this is, but I do like something about it and will add this to my handling of this excellent table cut.

I am also curious if others feel that this improves the move. It was interesting that Bruce wrote that Vernon told him that this was the best false cut ever and that he had at that time only revealed it to two people (Bruce and Larry Jennings).

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Guest » January 8th, 2008, 12:19 pm

The slip cut towards the end of the cut is a great subtlety as it looks 'unstudied.' You are simply dropping packets to the table and one of them happens to be a single card. I think it's brilliant!

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Guest » January 9th, 2008, 11:41 am

Steven Minch seems to agree. From "The Lost Inner Secrets":

"The stripping of the single card may seem slightly eccentric. Yet, without it the sequence loses some of its effectiveness. Do not neglect this point."

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » January 10th, 2008, 12:37 pm

Originally posted by Curtis Kam:
Steven Minch seems to agree. From "The Lost Inner Secrets":

"The stripping of the single card may seem slightly eccentric. Yet, without it the sequence loses some of its effectiveness. Do not neglect this point."
Ah...I had gone looking in The Vernon Chronicles for anything about this cut but had passed over the entry due to the different title. I looked it up last night, though, based on your post and found the reference. In The Vernon Chronicles, Volume 1, it's called "The Vernon Multiple False Cut".

Here's my question: from the discussion on this thread, it would seem that the technique was devised by Rakinakis. However, the Minch description credits it to Vernon, saying that he taught it to Rakinakis, who then adopted it. Are the Cervon notebooks clear on this point?

In any case, I've been playing with this since last night and it is pretty nice. Still like the Cold Deck Cut, but I'll probably add this one in as well.

-Jim

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 10th, 2008, 1:20 pm

This is just one of many questions raised by the Castle Notebooks.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Guest » January 17th, 2008, 8:06 am

Does anyone known the rest of them will be put out or did I miss this somewhere.

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby George Guerra » January 17th, 2008, 9:10 am

Thought I heard about 6 months for the next release, and perhaps, the same for the final one

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 17th, 2008, 9:37 am

Aren't there supposed to be five volumes? I assumed, that since the first book contains three notebooks, and there are 14 Castle notebooks total, that it would take about five volumes, or four at the very least. Of course, subsequent volumes could be much smaller.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby magicalt » January 17th, 2008, 12:59 pm

You would think at the very least 3 more, but if they come out every 6 months the last one wont come up till the middle of 2009 and in my opinion that is a long time for scans.

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Eoin O'hare » January 17th, 2008, 1:14 pm

I emailed L&L last Nov. and they told me that there would be 4 volumes in total with no release date on any of the volumes to come.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby George Guerra » January 17th, 2008, 1:25 pm

Found this post on the MagicCafe...

...spoke with Louis Falanga about it a couple of days ago and 4 volumes will probably be correct. Also there isn't a time line for the next releases

Irregardless, looking forward to the remaining volumes

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Gordon Bean » January 22nd, 2008, 11:34 pm

One of the lessons of the Erdnase/Vernon school is that a natural appearance is deceptively difficult to achieve. So it is with Linda Cervon's work in meticulously cleaning up the scans for the Castle Notebooks: since these efforts are by definition self-effacing, they're easy to underestimate. And that's not even taking into consideration her design, layout, and coordination of multiple introductions. This is going to be one of the great series in magic publishing--a real adventure--and it's going to be a bittersweet day when the last installment arrives.

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Gordolini » January 28th, 2008, 4:48 am

I noticed that one of the first entries from December 1964 records Marlo's name and a description of what I believe is Marlo's Miracle Aces. Does the description and the timing match the publication of Faro Controlled Miracles? (I do not own)

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » January 28th, 2008, 6:13 am

Originally posted by Gordon Springstead:
I noticed that one of the first entries from December 1964 records Marlo's name and a description of what I believe is Marlo's Miracle Aces. Does the description and the timing match the publication of Faro Controlled Miracles? (I do not own)
"Faro Controlled Miracles" was released in early 1964.

-Jim

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » January 28th, 2008, 6:16 am

Can anyone with the Cervon Notebooks clear up this question re: The Rakiniakis Cut/The Vernon Multiple False Cut?

Originally posted by Jim Maloney:
Here's my question: from the discussion on this thread, it would seem that the technique was devised by Rakinakis. However, the Minch description credits it to Vernon, saying that he taught it to Rakinakis, who then adopted it. Are the Cervon notebooks clear on this point?
Thanks,
Jim

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Gordolini » January 28th, 2008, 10:01 am

Jim -

I see that Mallakite had had earlier posted: "PS: There's a really good false cut called the Rakanakus Cut by Vernon on page 71 that keeps the whole deck in the same order, I fooled myself when I first did it"

Going from memory, Vernon's name is written next to the title of the cut which seems consistent with how other tricks were credited. I could double check tonight if no one chimes in, but any further deduction may be just speculation. If Cervon was involved in the Chronicles project, then I would think that what Minch wrote was accurate to the best of everyone's memories.

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » January 28th, 2008, 10:45 am

Originally posted by Gordon Springstead:
Jim -

I see that Mallakite had had earlier posted: "PS: There's a really good false cut called the Rakanakus Cut by Vernon on page 71 that keeps the whole deck in the same order, I fooled myself when I first did it"

Going from memory, Vernon's name is written next to the title of the cut which seems consistent with how other tricks were credited. I could double check tonight if no one chimes in, but any further deduction may be just speculation. If Cervon was involved in the Chronicles project, then I would think that what Minch wrote was accurate to the best of everyone's memories.
That post was the source of my confusion: The Vernon Chronicles explicitly states that the cut was created by Vernon and shown to Rakinakis, who then adopted it for himself. The posts here about the Cervon notebooks, however, indicate that the entry in the notebooks list it as the "Rakinakis Cut", which to me would indicate that it was invented by Rakinakis. I'm just curious to know if the Cervon Notebooks make any more explicit mentions of the credit for this entry.

Thanks,
Jim

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 28th, 2008, 1:02 pm

There are ambiguities with some of the crediting in the Castle Notebooks. Sometimes there is a name, sometimes two names, sometimes no names. You can also see that things have been erased and written over in some spots.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Brad Henderson » January 28th, 2008, 2:28 pm

Gordon,

Was there a reason for reducing the size of the scans for publication? As I understand it, the original notebooks were 8.5 x 11. I know I would have appreciated the few extra inches.

Brad

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 28th, 2008, 2:31 pm

They should have been reproduced original size, however the publisher obviously wanted them to fit on the shelf alongside all the other 7 x 10 inch Vernon titles they printed.

We published the Vernon Touch book at 7 x 10, a size I dislike and never use, so it would fit alongside the rest of the Vernon books on the shelf--both those by Harry Stanley and L&L.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Nick Pudar » January 28th, 2008, 4:18 pm

Can someone PM (or email) me Louis Falanga's email address. I would like to share with him some thoughts on how to fairly release the next volumes so that it is possible to eventually buy all four volumes. Thanks.
Nick

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 28th, 2008, 5:25 pm

You can contact Louis through the L&L website.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby DocDixon » January 28th, 2008, 6:30 pm

On page 125 of the Notebooks, Cervon wrote of Vernon's theory on Del Ray's blackjack deal. Unless I'm totally wrong on Del Ray's work, Del Ray completely fooled Vernon with this.

Would love to hear comments on this topic.

Best,

Doc

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 28th, 2008, 6:38 pm

It does sound kind of wacky with the business about the metallic ink on the cards. We'll know when the Del Ray book comes out!
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby SteveP » January 28th, 2008, 6:49 pm

Originally posted by Nick Pudar:
Can someone PM (or email) me Louis Falanga's email address. I would like to share with him some thoughts on how to fairly release the next volumes so that it is possible to eventually buy all four volumes. Thanks.
Nick
Nick,

I sent you a PM - I maintain L&L's website, so feel free to send me your email and I will make sure Louis gets it.

Thanks,

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » January 28th, 2008, 7:49 pm

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
There are ambiguities with some of the crediting in the Castle Notebooks. Sometimes there is a name, sometimes two names, sometimes no names. You can also see that things have been erased and written over in some spots.
I understand that it may not be perfect -- I'm just trying to figure out what, if anything, is said in relation to this cut.

-Jim

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 28th, 2008, 8:06 pm

If there is a discrepancy in relation to the crediting on the cut, one can look to other things that have come out of the Castle Notebooks and been published for comparison.

Someone will have to go back and take a look at this, but didn't Cervon make some statements regarding some of the material published under Vernon's name in the Vernon Chronicles as having been in some way his own material? (This would be in the Genii cover story that David Regal wrote several years ago. I have a vague memory about the Loose Lifts in particular.)
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Ryan Matney » January 28th, 2008, 11:26 pm

I think Cervon said something to the effect that he finished effects that Vernon never really fully developed. And, also, worked out effects that Vernon just had ideas for and never worked on at all.

Maybe you could compare the notebooks to see exactly what those were.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Edwin Corrie » January 29th, 2008, 12:28 am

Originally posted by Jim Maloney:
The Vernon Chronicles explicitly states that the cut was created by Vernon and shown to Rakinakis, who then adopted it for himself. The posts here about the Cervon notebooks, however, indicate that the entry in the notebooks list it as the "Rakinakis Cut", which to me would indicate that it was invented by Rakinakis. I'm just curious to know if the Cervon Notebooks make any more explicit mentions of the credit for this entry.
In the Castle Notebooks Cervon says something like "Vernon thinks this is the best cut ever and he hasn't shown it to anyone except me and Larry" (paraphrased - I don't have it here with me right now). Maybe he called it the Rakinakis Cut because it was shown to Rakinakis and he just wanted a distinctive name for it (I think the next entry is simply "False Cut - Vernon"). And maybe Cervon and Jennings were the only OTHER people he'd shown it to.

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Ryan Matney » January 29th, 2008, 9:23 am

The wording sounds to me like Rakinakis showed the cut to Vernon and Vernon thought it was the best cut ever.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » January 29th, 2008, 9:42 am

Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
The wording sounds to me like Rakinakis showed the cut to Vernon and Vernon thought it was the best cut ever.
Which would be the exact opposite of what is stated in the Vernon Chronicles...

-Jim

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby The Magic Apple » February 2nd, 2008, 9:07 pm

Anyone want to sell one of these books? Or did anyone by chance buy 2 of them?

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Matthew Field » February 3rd, 2008, 3:44 am

Being a poor, semi-retired old fart, I was thrilled to find that The Magic Circle bought a copy of the Notebooks for their library, and I dived in.

I looked through the table of contents and came across the name of one of my heroes, Del Ray.

To my amazement, Cervon reports that Vernon thought Del Ray used radioactive markings on his cards to achieve some of his effects!

Holy Geiger counter, Batman!

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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Eoin O'hare » February 3rd, 2008, 5:42 am

Matt, they still sell these cards in a small village shop in Seascale, near Sellafield.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 3rd, 2008, 8:06 am

I think that you'll see a lot of these books come up for sale in the coming year on eBay, especially when the balance of the volumes come out. My prediction: you'll see full sets sell on eBay for $4000.
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Re: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 1

Postby Jim Martin » February 3rd, 2008, 12:00 pm

Richard, unfortunately I think you are correct about a $4k price on eBay.

It makes me appreciate the work involved (with Volumes 1 - 3 in particular, by Stephen Minch) and final product released by L and L. Important information was organized, clarified, elegantly rewritten and issued at a very reasonable price.

Volume 1 was released in 1987, Volume 2 in 1988, Volume 3 in 1989.

Volume 4 in 1992, by Bruce Cervon and Keith Burns.

Did Larry Jennings ever weigh in on the release of these first three volumes? I note his name on the listing for the first three volumes
(i.e., 'Dai Vernon
The Lost Inner Secrets
A Tribute by Bruce Cervon and Larry Jennings
etc.
Published by L and L Publishing
Larry Jennings and Louis Falanga') yet no mention of Larry on Volume 4.

It would be great if another release would be considered - perhaps in another format, so as not to diminish the investment of those first 200 purchasers.
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