The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

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Tarotist
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The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 8th, 2022, 11:27 pm

It has not gone unnoticed by me that hardly anyone talks about children's entertainment on this site which is rather odd since it is probably the area where more shows are performed by magicians than anywhere else. Still, I suppose this is because nobody on here knows much about it (except probably Quentin Reynolds)

I therefore deem it interesting to tell you about an eccentric magician I once knew in Ireland. From his accent he didn't sound Irish but more likely English. His name was Fernie and he was the only one I ever saw do the Day For Any Date trick from the stage. He travelled to his shows and carried all his props on a motor bike and I was told he would sleep in hedges rather than book a hotel if he travelled out of town.
I am not sure if this was true or not but since it rains every second day in Ireland, if it was indeed true, he must have spent some rather damp nights.

Anyway, this documentary is very interesting and educational and the best part of it is that will hopefully distract you all from talking about Erdnase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3NyKuI ... ksRgNkU08M

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 9th, 2022, 3:37 am

Tarotist wrote:Anyway, this documentary is very interesting and educational and the best part of it is that will hopefully distract you all from talking about Erdnase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3NyKuI ... ksRgNkU08M

Many thanks for the link Mark.

That documentary had me spellbound throughout - what an absolutely fascinating character. Not to mention a darn sight more interesting than Erdnase (or finding out whoever he was); but then again, what isn't.

So many strings to his bow; and an all-round entertainer.

Speaking of which Joe Riding used to say that no matter what branch of Magic you perform, if you can perform balloon modelling and palm reading, you'll always be in demand with both kids and adults - and never starve. I couldn't agree more - but most of those I knew who attended his lectures over the years, didn't bother to take this advice on board.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 9th, 2022, 11:20 am

I knew Joe. He was very versatile indeed. He was a memory expert, a psychic reader, a close up magician, a cabaret act etc;. I didn't know he did balloon modelling but now you have told me he did that too!

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 9th, 2022, 12:11 pm

Tarotist wrote:I knew Joe. He was very versatile indeed. He was a memory expert, a psychic reader, a close up magician, a cabaret act etc;. I didn't know he did balloon modelling but now you have told me he did that too!

He only did the basics with the balloons Mark - but did them well.

It got him regular work early evenings midweek, at a Pizza/Pancake outlet and various restaurants, during family meal deal times; and even better paid work (by Blackpool Council) at one of your favourite old haunts.........Central Pier!

When he stopped over at my house, I'd talk him in to going for a pint down my local - not the most difficult of tasks. I asked once what he had in his pockets - he had a pack of cards, some sponge balls and some modelling balloons. That's when I first learnt that he even used them. Along with the palm reading, as he always said - "I carry these things everywhere nowadays; you don't need to carry much to be able to entertain anyone".

I've never been able to blow the bloody things up to be honest; possibly due to a lifetime of smoking since the age of 12. I've been packed up over three years now; thankfully with no breathing-related problems. Perhaps I should give them another go?
Last edited by BarryAllen on December 9th, 2022, 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 9th, 2022, 12:19 pm

As for being an all round entertainer Harry Stanley once told me it was a very good thing to be but I sort of ignored him at the time. I only really did card tricks and not much else. So I never intended to be an all round entertainer but one day I woke up and realised that I was! Not out of preference but out of necessity! If one thing didn't work I had to do something else! So I ended up not just as a card magician but in this order of sequential appearance a magic pitchman, a cabaret stand up act, a children's entertainer, a psychic consultant, a stage hypnotist, a writer and God knows what else in the future. If there is a future, that is.................

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 9th, 2022, 12:30 pm

BarryAllen wrote:
I've never been able to blow the bloody things up to be honest; possibly due to a lifetime of smoking since the age of 12. I've been packed up over three years now; thankfully with no breathing-related problems. Perhaps I should give them another go?


I had absolutely no problem blowing them up and had no idea there was supposed to be a problem. My secret was that I purchased my balloons from that old rogue Murray. They were cheap Mexican balloons that blew up very easily. Of course the major drawback was that they would burst very often as they were not great quality. I didn't mind a bit though because it allowed me to make my little joke "May it rest in pieces!". Of course I never realised that other magicians would use the Qualitex balloons which were indeed murder to blow up and that is why magicians would often use a pump to get the result.

When I moved to Canada I couldn't find the Mexican balloons except on rare occasions in Dollar Stores in limited quantities but they were even worse quality than the ones that Murray sold. All you can really get here are the Qualitex balloons and the secret is to blow them up beforehand at home with a pump then deflate them again and that makes them easier to blow up by mouth at the actual show.

In Canada it is all the rage to make all the kids at the party a balloon animal but I utterly refuse to do it. I make one for the birthday child and that is about it. I have lots of gags and silliness with the balloon which makes it good entertainment. I only know one animal. I used to know two but I got fed up with the other one!

PS. As for Central Pier it was NOT one of my favourite places. I hated the damn place and was often tempted to jump over the pier and end up in the Irish Sea to get away from it. It was a nightmare trying to sell svengali decks to tight fisted Yorkshire punters with cards blowing into the sea with the awful gale force Blackpool winds.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby PressureFan » December 9th, 2022, 12:38 pm

I envy you guys knowing Joe Riding.
The best bang for my buck ever was the Joe Riding ‘An Evening with Joe Riding’. I still have my T-A-T VHS tape (No. 0224). Today, they could have easily made a multiple DVD set out of all the material, and well worth the price. His cold reading lecture was huge.
I used to do Joe’s ‘Counting the Cards’, and am still working on it. Perfect for stand-up. My early days of magic study were cluttered up with seated tricks with mats and coin shells. Joe obviously had worked in the trenches, in the real world.

His Think-of-a-Card work was especially influential on me.
Matthew Wright had high praise for Joe on his Unusual Suspects DVD. 'An Evening with Joe Riding' was Matthews very first magic video. Lucky duck!
Joe’s Think-of-a-Card lecture (and boxing) was the inspiration for Matthew’s ‘Calzaghe’s Opener’.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 9th, 2022, 7:24 pm

That's a good idea with inflating the balloons in advance Mark. I wish I'd have picked up that tip many years ago; before risking a hernia.

Qualitex rings a bell. I'm sure that's the brand that I tried back in the early 90's. I just thought that I didn't have the ability - as I knew people back then who could seemingly blow them up with apparent ease. Some things you just get the immediate nack of doing. For example, I've never had a problem from Day 1 of performing Harry Lorayne's Ultra Move, from the written description within his book Afterthoughts. Other magicians, much more skilled than myself (and with larger hands) just haven't been able to grasp it whatsoever.

The Central Pier episode - having watched one of your clips on YouTube, I remembered the fun you had selling Svens next to the Irish Sea. The pier itself though holds a special place in my heart - as I remember a trip to Paul Clive's shop as if it was yesterday. I bought 'Card Tricks Without Skill' but was gutted that he wasn't there to sign it for me. This would have been 1979/1980 ish, when I had just started work and finally had money to spend. However, my trips to Murray at 27 Cookson Street, Bill's House of Jokes, the Theatre/Magic Exhibition in Coronation Street and meeting up with Joe Riding, more than made up for it. As a teenager growing up, Blackpool truly was such a special place; and still to this day I have such fond memories over the years. If 'she who must be obeyed' was up for it, I'd have no hesitation moving there to live.

PressureFan- so pleased to learn of your admiration for Joe and his superb commercial brand of Magic. Here's some words that I put together when Joe left us:
https://magicweek.co.uk/magic_articles/ ... riding.htm

Much more interesting is the following Blog about Joe, put together by Phil - The Magic Researcher:
https://themagicresearcher.wordpress.co ... ial-magic/

Phil really does the memory of Joe Riding proud; and it was a privilege to share my information and memories of such a fantastic Magician.

The video that you refer to, 'An Evening With Joe Riding', contains such superb, commercial content.

I'm so pleased to hear that someone else is still working his material. It truly is just too bloody good to ever be forgotten

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 9th, 2022, 9:32 pm

BarryAllen wrote:The Central Pier episode - having watched one of your clips on YouTube, I remembered the fun you had selling Svens next to the Irish Sea. The pier itself though holds a special place in my heart - as I remember a trip to Paul Clive's shop as if it was yesterday. I bought 'Card Tricks Without Skill' but was gutted that he wasn't there to sign it for me. This would have been 1979/1980 ish, when I had just started work and finally had money to spend. However, my trips to Murray at 27 Cookson Street, Bill's House of Jokes, the Theatre/Magic Exhibition in Coronation Street and meeting up with Joe Riding, more than made up for it. As a teenager growing up, Blackpool truly was such a special place; and still to this day I have such fond memories over the years. If 'she who must be obeyed' was up for it, I'd have no hesitation moving there to live.


You either love Blackpool or you hate it. I loved it! One of the better decisions of my life was to move there. It was absolutely wonderful and I learned all my evil ways there! It was socially unacceptable to be an honest upright citizen in the town and hopefully still is. As for Paul I knew him quite well. He was actually on North Pier rather than South Pier and I think it was there that he sold a glove puppet to Harry Corbett and the said glove puppet is the most famous one in history. And is still famous after probably 70 years or so. His name is Sooty. Foreigners (and if you are not British you are automatically a foreigner) here who have not heard of Sooty should look him up and will be astonished at how famous he is.

"Card Tricks Without Skill" is indeed a famous classic book on card tricks. It has never been freely available in North America but I did see a copy in the Arcade Magic Shop in Toronto. When I returned to Blackpool I told him that I had seen his book in Canada and expected him to be pleased about it but alas he was highly irritated saying, "It should not be sold in Canada. I am not receiving any royalties from it"

Anyway there was a guy named Joe Smith on Central Pier that I did business with. He sold jokes and tricks to the punters on Central Pier. He told me once, "I have known Paul Clive for over 30 years. I have never ever seen him do a card trick and in fact he doesn't actually know any!" He still managed to write a classic book on the subject. The word around Blackpool was that Paul went around with a notebook asking magicians if they knew of any card tricks and he took notes on them and included them in his book.

As for him autographing your book even if he was there he would have been reluctant to autograph it. His wife told me that he actually hated autographing his famous book and wouldn't do it unless she was there to prod him to do it! The last time I saw Paul he was in a wheelchair at the Blackpool Convention and had alzheimers so didn't recognise me even though he had known me for years. Oddly enough about a week or so ago by sheer coincidence I performed at a seniors residence in Toronto and one of the residents told me that he was from Blackpool and his father was a magician who had known Paul Clive for 40 years!

Anyway, here is Paul in action for historical purposes:
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/the- ... Paul+Clive

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 10th, 2022, 2:56 am

So that wasn't Paul's shop that I went to on Central Pier but Joe Smith's? No wonder Paul Clive wasn't there!

It's funny how memory works. I can't remember what I had for dinner last Monday - but I can remember that as well as the book, I bought an Eddie Gibson 2p/10p Coin Unique, a flat black change bag and a single brass Swami Gimmick - supplied in a little envelope with no instructions. I also remember running back to the guest house oh so happy, with my newly acquired tat.

That's a truly funny story about Paul collecting material for his book - given the fact he couldn't do any card tricks himself. He certainly appeared to have been a character! Still, it's not too different I suppose from more recent(ish) books, released by 'names'; which I have read thinking "have you seriously ever performed this crap in the real world, or is this simply just filler"?

I enjoyed the British Pathe clip - Paul could handle a Swazzle then - something else that I could never get the hang of, when I worked in the Greenwich joke shop as a kid.

Here's some brief mention of Paul Clive; along with another interesting character that he was once in business with - Jack Klaw:
https://www.collectingmagic.co.uk/2020/ ... d-and.html

There truly were some interesting chaps back in the day. Can you imagine these type of discussions in the future? "Oh he was a right character......he used to sell his tricks and jokes on ebay". Or "I used to love visiting his internet magic shop".

Just doesn't have the same level of nostalgia, does it. :?

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Dave Le Fevre » December 10th, 2022, 4:05 am

Tarotist wrote:They were cheap Mexican balloons that blew up very easily
I wonder if such balloons are still available. The very first trick that I performed before a large audience (at school), 65 years ago, used a balloon. It was, at the time, an everyday balloon in the UK. It inflated very easily, and because of the method it had to inflate very easily.

About 25 years later, I tried to buy similar balloons, simply so that I could recreate that performance. But I could find none.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 10th, 2022, 6:45 am

I used those cheap balloons in Ireland but I have absolutely no memory of where I purchased them. I couldn't have got them from old Murray in Blackpool.

As for Joe Smith selling jokes and tricks on Central Pier I should explain to Barry that it wasn't a shop as such. More of a kiosk. You did not enter a door to go in. It was really a large open window where Joe demonstrated all the jokes. It was really a joke shop rather than a magic shop although he may have had a few novelty type tricks for the kids. Outside the kiosk Joe had a demonstration table where various people would sell svengali decks from time to time. Apart from myself the most notable one was a chap by the name of Nelson Holt who was reputed to have sold more decks in the bar at the end of the pier than he ever did on the official demonstration table! I think I have mentioned Nelson on this group before. Now HE was a REAL character!

Incidentally I do believe that Douglas Craggs the noted ventriloquist and stalwart of the Magic Circle was Paul Clive's brother.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 10th, 2022, 7:47 am

How do you not love Fernie? He devoted himself, heart and soul, to being a a magician (and all-around entertainer). Going around on that beat-up old motor bike (almost 700,000 miles over a 20 year period), with a couple of cardboard boxes filled with props fastened on to it. He was all in. This a man who exuded true love and joy for what he did, and that love and joy was reflected back from the faces and in the voices of all those beautiful children. One of the things (among others) he said in the documentary that really struck a chord was: "Sometimes when I'm entertaining, I get the feeling that I should be paying the people who are watching me..."

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 10th, 2022, 8:31 am

Hi Mark,

It was definitely a shop (quite small) that I went to. To the best of my memory, there wasn't much space customer side; just a long counter in front as you walked through the door. There was an older guy serving, I would guess in his 60's (thinning grey hair), not very tall. However, bear in mind that I'm going back here around 43 years. The shop definitely stocked quite a lot of Magic; rather than just the slum items - so it doesn't sound like Joe Smith's place?

You've got me thinking now - whether I've got the correct Pier? We always stayed in Albert Road - and it wasn't far to walk. I remember it was peeing down - the usual September illuminations weather.

I would have got the address from an advert in Abra, as I don't remember sending off for a catalogue or lists?

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 10th, 2022, 8:41 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:"Sometimes when I'm entertaining, I get the feeling that I should be paying the people who are watching me..."

That really is a superb statement, isn't it.

It also removes the stigma that a lot of children's entertainers receive, namely that they can't stand kids. Clearly some do enjoy their audiences.

I've never had any interest whatsoever in Children's Magic - but I greatly admire the performers that can deliver it. The modus operandi of the tricks may be simple - BUT I can't imagine keeping a group of screaming kids entertained/under control is very easy, unless you know exactly what you are doing.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Dave Le Fevre » December 10th, 2022, 11:04 am

BarryAllen wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:"Sometimes when I'm entertaining, I get the feeling that I should be paying the people who are watching me..."

That really is a superb statement, isn't it
I have a similar attitude. We have quite a range of audiences, from the less-than-pleasant through pleasant to really nice. And when an audience has been really nice, I thank them for being such a nice audience.

And I mean it sincerely. Maybe that's just me.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Eoin O'hare » December 10th, 2022, 12:46 pm

Tarotist wrote:It has not gone unnoticed by me that hardly anyone talks about children's entertainment on this site which is rather odd since it is probably the area where more shows are performed by magicians than anywhere else. Still, I suppose this is because nobody on here knows much about it (except probably Quentin Reynolds)

I therefore deem it interesting to tell you about an eccentric magician I once knew in Ireland. From his accent he didn't sound Irish but more likely English. His name was Fernie and he was the only one I ever saw do the Day For Any Date trick from the stage. He travelled to his shows and carried all his props on a motor bike and I was told he would sleep in hedges rather than book a hotel if he travelled out of town.
I am not sure if this was true or not but since it rains every second day in Ireland, if it was indeed true, he must have spent some rather damp nights.

Anyway, this documentary is very interesting and educational and the best part of it is that will hopefully distract you all from talking about Erdnase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3NyKuI ... ksRgNkU08M


Thanks for the link!
I went to a lecture given by Fernie at a local magic club near Belfast in the 80’s whenever I was a kid.
I can’t remember much about the lecture but I can picture Fernie vividly. He arrived on his motorbike with lots of boxes all of which were covered in a massive raincoat that he was also wearing. He had gained a lot more weight from that documentary, and looked very spherical. No idea how he balanced on the bike.
Great documentary!
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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 10th, 2022, 1:00 pm

Most audiences throughout my time have probably ranged from average to excellent. Similar to yourself, I always genuinely thank them for being such good sports.

The only two occasions when I have walked off to the sound of my own footsteps, were both at British Army camps. Maybe thats just a coincidence. I've got to be blunt - British Squaddies appeared to be absolute arse***es, if you weren't one of their clan - actually bordering on hostile.

In fact, some good acts that I knew (Magicians and Comedians) wouldn't touch an agency booking, if it was for the Army.

In stark contrast, two shows that I performed for the U.S. Air Force at Lakenheath Suffolk, were exceptional. From the moment acts arrived, we were treated like royalty! I must admit - our cousins from across the pond do appear to be much more appreciative and receptive.

The British Army aside, the worst audiences to my mind, are Magicians.

The majority give limited appreciation; whilst their primary intention appears to be finding out how something is done - rather than enjoying the effect.

I've cringed for lecturers over the years; who have stood there sharing their knowledge and experience, only to be met by a wall of silence, or at best, complete indifference.

A case in point is Fernie. If he was lecturing, I could listen to the guy all night relating just his tales. I don't think many newer Magicians these days would have the same interest.

As an aside, on the Blackpool shop question - this has been driving me around the twist all afternoon, trying to remember. I'm bloody sure that I went to a shop on Central Pier? Would Joe Smith have fitted my earlier description? :roll:

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Ian Kendall » December 10th, 2022, 1:20 pm

The military based in North Scotland are are great - 45 Commando in Arbroath and REME up in Elgin were both wonderful hosts, and good audiences.

There was a fight between a few wives in the REME junior NCOs Christmas dinner a few years ago, which was something to behold...

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 10th, 2022, 3:15 pm

BarryAllen wrote:Hi Mark,

It was definitely a shop (quite small) that I went to. To the best of my memory, there wasn't much space customer side; just a long counter in front as you walked through the door. There was an older guy serving, I would guess in his 60's (thinning grey hair), not very tall. However, bear in mind that I'm going back here around 43 years. The shop definitely stocked quite a lot of Magic; rather than just the slum items - so it doesn't sound like Joe Smith's place?

You've got me thinking now - whether I've got the correct Pier? We always stayed in Albert Road - and it wasn't far to walk. I remember it was peeing down - the usual September illuminations weather.

I would have got the address from an advert in Abra, as I don't remember sending off for a catalogue or lists?


I am pretty sure that you were on North Pier. Paul Clive was never anywhere else. It sounds like you visited the pier a year or two after I left Blackpool. For all I know perhaps someone else opened up a magic shop on the pier after I left but I doubt it very much otherwise I would have heard of it. I strongly suspect you are getting the piers mixed up. It is easily done.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 10th, 2022, 3:19 pm

Eoin O'hare wrote:Thanks for the link!
I went to a lecture given by Fernie at a local magic club near Belfast in the 80’s whenever I was a kid.
I can’t remember much about the lecture but I can picture Fernie vividly. He arrived on his motorbike with lots of boxes all of which were covered in a massive raincoat that he was also wearing. He had gained a lot more weight from that documentary, and looked very spherical. No idea how he balanced on the bike.
Great documentary!


You can see his raincoat in the video. You NEED a raincoat in Ireland! I have always said that living in Canada is like living in a fridge and living in Ireland is like living in a puddle. Mind you, Fernie sounded like he was from Northern England from his accent.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 10th, 2022, 3:29 pm

As for army shows I did a lot of them in Germany for the US army bases. I learned a lot from it. I worked with a very established and excellent old pro of those days named Jerry Bergmann. I didn't really have much in the way of problems although I do remember the officer's clubs were easier to entertain than the enlisted men. I still remember a very bad audience one night of enlisted men. They did not heckle and they were not drunk. They were just sullen and unreceptive. They seemed to be in a very bad mood indeed. Not just with me but with all the other acts on the bill. We all found out the reason why afterwards. They had just all been told before the show that they were going to be shipped to fight in Vietnam the next day. I rather wish they had been told after the show rather than before it!

I have done stage hypnotism shows in Canadian army bases. They went over terrifically well! I have been told that hypnotism shows work wonderfully well for military audiences because the subjects on stage are used to taking orders and following directions!

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 10th, 2022, 3:36 pm

BarryAllen wrote:Hi Mark,

It was definitely a shop (quite small) that I went to. To the best of my memory, there wasn't much space customer side; just a long counter in front as you walked through the door. There was an older guy serving, I would guess in his 60's (thinning grey hair), not very tall. However, bear in mind that I'm going back here around 43 years. The shop definitely stocked quite a lot of Magic; rather than just the slum items - so it doesn't sound like Joe Smith's place?

You've got me thinking now - whether I've got the correct Pier? We always stayed in Albert Road - and it wasn't far to walk. I remember it was peeing down - the usual September illuminations weather.

I would have got the address from an advert in Abra, as I don't remember sending off for a catalogue or lists?


The older guy you describe could not have been Joe Smith because he had passed away a few years before you went on the pier. It sounds more like Paul Clive who would indeed have been in his sixties around that time and he was indeed of short stature. As I stated earlier it would have been typical of him to say that Paul Clive wasn't there because he disliked signing his own book and only did so when his wife was there to put pressure on him. I suspect you met Paul but didn't know it was him!

Incidentally, do you remember if the shop was near the entrance to the pier? If it was then you were on North Pier rather than Central Pier.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 10th, 2022, 6:53 pm

Tarotist wrote:
BarryAllen wrote:Incidentally, do you remember if the shop was near the entrance to the pier? If it was then you were on North Pier rather than Central Pier.

To the best of my memory Mark, if you walked on towards the left hand side of the pier, the shop was then on your right; not very far down; and towards the back of the main building. If memory also serves me right, it was painted yellow? The counter was just that - a counter; not the usual glass display cabinet used by many magic shops.

43 years and copious pints of Guinness over decades later - and that is my best recollection of events.

Meanwhile, Murray's at 27 Cookson Street was probably the best Magic Shop that I've ever visited. Amongst the newer stuff, shelves of second-hand props and books piled high.....and dust. Every real Magic Shop definitely needs dust!

In fact, Fernie's Magic den reminded me a bit of Murray's Magic Mart. You cannot beat the look of disorganised chaos.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 10th, 2022, 9:06 pm

Oh, I knew Murray quite well! I likened him and his shop to "a wise old man in a cave". His shop was small and dark and it reminded me of a cave! And Murray was a very wise old man. I still remember two pieces of advice to me which I follow to this day.
1. "If you go through life and never do business with a crook you will never get anything done" (Of course this was standard advice in Blackpool)
2. "Talk about me good, talk about me bad---it doesn't matter as long as you talk about me!"

Incidentally talking about Paul Clive there is an entire thread about him on a British magic forum. It might even give you a clue to the pier mystery. It seems that he was on both piers at one time although the Central Pier appearance would have been decades before you visited. Here you are:
https://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic43583.php

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 10th, 2022, 9:27 pm

Incidentally there is a picture of North Pier in the old days in this video which might refresh your memory:


Aha! This might also give you a clue! This video is of North Pier as it is nowadays. Paul Clive's shop was at roughly the same position as shown at 1.48.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQueoORAHTU

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 11th, 2022, 7:15 am

Hi Mark,

Many thanks for the additional references. From the TalkMagic forum, Allen Tipton alludes to Paul's place on Central Pier being 'a round booth'. The place I went was definitely a shop - albeit more of a limited standing area in front of a long counter - a bit like the set-up of an old-style fish & chip shop. It's difficult to tell from the clip that you kindly provided; but it may well have been North Pier afterall. I wish I still had some Abra's from the late 1970's, to check if there were adverts within confirming it.

Murray's was indeed like a cave. Dimly lit but a real treasure trove. When I first went in, Murray and my Dad were reminiscing for ages about the old days of Music Hall; Dad relating how he'd first seen Murray at the East Ham Granada as a teenager; and how he'd later stolen Murray's idea of holding one loose chain link back with the thumb; letting this drop singly once the chain had been 'welded'; when performing Nikola's effect 'Magic Welding'. Murray said he'd probably nicked the idea from somebody else anyway!

He asked what I had in my hand; and it was one of the book's Dad had given me - Victor Farelli's 'Lend Me Your Pack'. He asked "do you want to sell me it"? I replied that no way would I sell one of my Dad's treasures. I think he thought highly of this stance; because I said "but you can write a nice message in it for me Mr. Murray" - which he duly did. I might have sent you a picture of this some time ago?

I purchased that day his life story, authored by Val Andrews, which of course, he also autographed.

He asked my favourite book and I said "Edward Victor's Magic of the Hands". To this day, yet another overlooked series of absolutely superb books; in this current world of smoke-producing gimmicks and Rubik Cube monstrosities.

I had a few things piled on his counter by then; card effects by Supreme and a wooden block release. Murray said to Dad "he's serious about Magic isn't he". Replying of course, Murray said something along the lines of "I've got a trick here that I've been holding onto. It's something that stands out to me as a miracle". It was a Supreme release titled 'Treasury Transpo' by Harry Reeve; with TV Rights held by David Nixon and Roy Baker. The envelope was torn, the instructions within containing a few notes scrawled in pencil. It remains one of the best tricks that I've ever bought and used. I cannot believe that to this day, someone hasn't knocked it off - or maybe they have.

No doubt Murray was indeed an 'old rogue' Mark - his book relates to that many times. Doing a bunk from bed and breakfast establishments in the middle of the night to avoid paying the bill, were golden memories for him. However, I have to say that Murray was a true gentleman and on the few occasions I went over the next couple of holidays, he treated me with such good manners, not as an annoying kid. By the early 1980's, I was working, driving and too old to want to go on holiday to Blackpool with my parents. Pubs, mates, football and birds were my new hobbies. Such a shame, because the few occasions visiting 27 Cookson Street remain amongst my happiest memories from that time in my life.

Sorry to take the initial subject of your thread off-piste with these ramblings!

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 11th, 2022, 8:51 am

I have often thought that Murray's biography could have been better. Incredible adventures were described in 3 or 4 lines and the book lacked detail in some ways. I mentioned this to Bobby Bernard once who got irritated as only Bobby could be and defended his friend Val Andrews the biographer by saying, "It wasn't Val's fault. He had a hell of a job trying to pry information out of Murray for the book". I can actually well believe that.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 11th, 2022, 9:41 am

Tarotist wrote:I have often thought that Murray's biography could have been better. Incredible adventures were described in 3 or 4 lines and the book lacked detail in some ways. I mentioned this to Bobby Bernard once who got irritated as only Bobby could be and defended his friend Val Andrews the biographer by saying, "It wasn't Val's fault. He had a hell of a job trying to pry information out of Murray for the book". I can actually well believe that.

With reference to the Murray book. I totally agree; there certainly seemed to be just a tad lacking. I would have expected a lot more insight into Murray's life, given his travels.

Maybe, they were thwarted by costs, or a tight budget. Quite a few books produced by Goodliffe appeared to suffer the same fate.

Blimey - the irony of Bob saying that.

If ever you'd studied 'The Card and Coin Magic of Bobby Bernard' (published by Magico in 1982) authored by Val Andrews, I think you'd agree with me that it is hardly a literary masterpiece. For example, a key ingredient is missing from the description of The Himber Vanish - you'd never be able to do it properly from the instruction within.

I can only imagine that Val had difficulty trying to pry information from Bobby as well! ;)

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 11th, 2022, 11:52 am

Talking about books I have just been told by the local magic shop owner that hardly anyone in North America, especially the younger generation, has heard of Lewis Ganson any more. He has faded into insignificance nowadays. I imagine less so in the UK but if this is the case I think it is a crying shame. I have even seen idiotic posts on the magic cafe by people who are obviously as thick as planks saying he was a bad writer. I have been rereading his books lately and they were an incredible contribution to magic. The Dai Vernon material, the Slydini book, the Routined Manipulation series and much, much more. And he wasn't writing for the money either. I think he wrote the Dai Vernon book for free as he thought it was an honour to do so.

I think magic has changed nowadays but not for the better.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 11th, 2022, 12:03 pm

BarryAllen wrote:
If ever you'd studied 'The Card and Coin Magic of Bobby Bernard' (published by Magico in 1982) authored by Val Andrews, I think you'd agree with me that it is hardly a literary masterpiece. For example, a key ingredient is missing from the description of The Himber Vanish - you'd never be able to do it properly from the instruction within.


It is actually a very difficult thing to explain technical moves in print. I can just about do it but I don't enjoy it. I have had to do it for a few of my books but thank goodness not all of them. I thought Ganson and Lorayne did an incredibly good job of it. Hugard wasn't bad either but it is an incredibly hard thing to do. Ganson in particular was able to do it by writing about OTHER people's material rather than his own! That takes some doing!

Come to think of it as I am typing I think Richard did a great job capturing David Berglas's technique and mode of working very well. I would have imagined that this would be a particularly difficult task especially explaining David's personality and way of working. However, I think he did it very well.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 11th, 2022, 8:14 pm

Fully take on board what you are saying Mark.

However, with reference to the Himber move within the aforementioned book, a significant, major step is completely omitted from within the instruction.

That said, I also have to put some ownership for the failure upon Bobby. Surely, he should have read the proofs?

I've read two of Val Andrews books that he's authored. If I'm brutally honest, the guy doesn't appear to have been very good.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 11th, 2022, 9:32 pm

Ganson wrote a little book about Bobby's coin magic. I don't know if the Himber vanish is included. I shall check if I can ever find the book. I know I own it anway.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Tarotist » December 11th, 2022, 9:39 pm

OK. I found the book by Ganson on Bobby's coin magic. No mention of the Himber Vanish. I also looked in one of Ganson's books which had an entire chapter devoted to Bobby but no Himber vanish there either. I do remember the book written by Val Andrews on Bobby's work. I was never overly impressed with it.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby BarryAllen » December 12th, 2022, 1:30 am

Tarotist wrote:I do remember the book written by Val Andrews on Bobby's work. I was never overly impressed with it.

That's the one I'm referring to Mark. It's a hardback book; released in 1982, The Coin & Card Magic of Bobby Bernard:
https://www.qualitymagicbooks.com/produ ... l-andrews/

Most of the content is very good; and I was fortunate enough to see Bob perform it first hand (which no doubt you would have) - including the Himber Vanish, which he did very well.

However, any poor sod relying purely upon the written word (and pretty woeful diagrams) from the book, would I believe, have struggled somewhat.

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Re: The magician who went to work on a motor bike!

Postby Q. Kumber » December 12th, 2022, 9:20 am

Certainly in the 1990's and possibly earlier Bill Thompson ran a magic and joke shop on Blackpool's Golden Mile, directly opposite Central Pier. He was a mentor to many including Paul Zenon and Russ Stevens. By the end of the 90's Bill had moved to a studio, The House of Secrets, in Caunce Street. I don't know how he made a living there as he never made the slightest effort to sell you anything and he seemed reluctant to part with a book or prop. Incredibly knowledgeable, he'd always know what you were talking about and would have something extra to add to the mix. He really was an Aladdin's cave of information. Bill passed away at the end of March, 2012.


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