Bob Little Has Died

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Bob Little Has Died

Postby I.M. Magician » August 2nd, 2022, 1:36 pm

I believe he was 91 or 92.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 2nd, 2022, 2:20 pm

Pedophile--good news that he's dead and won't molest again.
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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby I.M. Magician » August 2nd, 2022, 2:29 pm

Really? Wow! I never knew that. Do you care to tell us more about that?

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Marky1 » August 2nd, 2022, 5:26 pm

Wow! Can’t wait to see the link to the published article about that !

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 2nd, 2022, 7:04 pm

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tom Frame » August 2nd, 2022, 7:55 pm

From 1975-1978, ages 15-18, I attended several conventions each year, in and around Ohio. Bob was at every convention. My peers had informed me of his tastes, so I was prepared.

He hit on me every time he saw me. On several occasions, he offered to introduce me to his good friend Roddy McDowell. I never understood why he thought I was a Roddy McDowell fanboy. I always rebuffed him with some repellent witticism. And he always tried again.

My condolences to his victims.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 2nd, 2022, 9:36 pm

I met him in Ireland once. I think he was staying at another magicians house and that was where I met him. I can't remember what he was doing in Ireland. Probably some convention or other. I never heard a whiff of this stuff. He doesn't seem to have been convicted of anything
and it must be the British in me which makes me uncomfortable about accusing him publicly when he is dead when nothing was said publicly about him when he was alive.

Incidentally I recently heard that a legendary figure in magic had the same weakness and was actually banned from the Magic Castle because of it some years ago. I won't name this person because he has never been convicted of anything either. As for Randi as mentioned on that Facebook thread it was a well known rumour and it seems there were tape recordings of conversations along those lines. However, Randi defended himself by saying he was participating in some sort of FBI scam. Again, he was never convicted of anything.

I just find it a bit off to be accusing people when they are dead and cannot defend themselves while not a word is said publicly when they are alive. The accusations may well be true and I suspect they are but if they have never been charged let alone convicted it seems unseemly to wait until they are dead before heaping on the accusations.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 2nd, 2022, 10:49 pm

Nothing is said publicly while they are alive because of the perils of being sued for libel and/or slander in the US. The law in the US is that you can't libel a dead person, which is why most of this stuff comes out upon death. Getting a conviction is a traumatic experience for victims, and there is no certainty of success.
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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Robert77 » August 2nd, 2022, 11:48 pm

Reading the thread I'm reminded of my time in magic in the early 70's. I was in a "Boy Scouts" Explorer Scout club which was affiliated with the local SAM club that met in Palo Alto CA. For the most part the club(s) were good places to share and learn magic. One time the club leader/scoutmaster arranged for a field trip to the Magic Castle.

We caravaned down in cars, ate boxed lunches, visited Hollywood Magic and the Castle, also visited the magic museum in the basement of a local bank (which decades later survived a fire but was contaminated with PCBs or something). We stayed in a local hotel. From one of my parents I overheard discussion of how there was a scoutmaster or leader (NOT ours) who had showed up at a similar boys event, entered one of the hotel rooms, stripped and at least attempted unpleasent things with the youth. This information had to have come from a man who would later be very involved in documenting the Boy Scouts problems with pedos.

There is a very sad overlap between disfunctional, even criminal, people, and the magic biz. However I did not now just how bad it was until today. I and others dodged a bullet. Assuredly others did not. Even now I can think of a number of creepy people whom I avoided.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Krenz » August 3rd, 2022, 4:12 am

Ouch.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 3rd, 2022, 2:42 pm

The FB discussion is going well.
Only a few Cancel Karens have whined (oh won't someone / you should ...)
And some who have survived abuse are doing better than #metoo and offering positive, supportive comments. ++

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 3rd, 2022, 6:49 pm

I read this on the Magic Cafe. It seems there was another side to him.

"there was another side to Bob that very few knew about, his caring and generosity to others.

Anytime Bob heard about a magician who was struggling, he would be right there to help out, food, money, anything he could do to help. I know of one magician who was
staying anywhere he could find a couch or a floor to sleep on. When Bob found out about this, he called a friend of his who had a small motel with only 8 rooms, and
Bob got a room for this magician and paid for it for a long time so that he would not be living on the streets. Anytime Bob found out a magician was in need, due to
illness or other problems, Bob was always right there to help."

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 3rd, 2022, 6:50 pm

And if they were underage, he was there to help them into his bed.
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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Robert77 » August 3rd, 2022, 8:20 pm

There are a darned lot of "magicians" in need. If the story is true he must have spent a LOT of money.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 3rd, 2022, 11:00 pm

That Facebook thread made my skin crawl not just because of Bob Little but the famous names in magic that were mentioned. Names that have never come up before. Naturally they are all dead and cannot answer back. God alone knows what their relatives will think if they read that stuff.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Dave Le Fevre » August 4th, 2022, 3:14 am

Yes, that Facebook thread was not a comfortable read. Horrendous.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 4th, 2022, 8:11 am

Tarotist wrote:That Facebook thread made my skin crawl not just because of Bob Little but the famous names in magic that were mentioned. Names that have never come up before. Naturally they are all dead and cannot answer back. God alone knows what their relatives will think if they read that stuff.

The complaints have been about inappropriate behavior AND how the community has been indifferent to such abuse.
Maybe you can talk to the dead ones.
The living victims, their families, and those at risk of being preyed upon need to hear that such things exist.
And to be wary of paying for secrets with "bad touch".

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 4th, 2022, 9:06 am

I found it a sordid thread but of course I have a very sensitive nature having led a very sheltered life. And yes, all the accused people were indeed somewhat dead although I did see one that is very much alive as far as I know. It was merely one comment and I suspect Richard missed it otherwise he would have deleted it. Hopefully he doesn't hear from the guy's lawyer.

What worries me is that people can be wrongfully accused. As I already pointed out on there, there can be three reasons for allegations. Actually four. The fourth is that the allegations are true. But what do we do with the other three possibilities? They are revenge/spite, hearsay, and misinterpretation. Let me deal with each in turn:

1. It is not uncommon to have a grudge against someone for some reason or other and you respond with an unfounded accusation that you know is untrue but you do it to get revenge and ruin that person's reputation. I have seen this happen on more than one occasion.
2. Hearsay. I saw quite a bit of this on that thread. You don't experience the alleged abuse yourself but you merely repeat what someone else told you. There is a reason hearsay is not accepted as evidence in court proceedings. Rumour is not evidence. Things get exaggerated over time. Any good magician knows that when you show a trick to someone and hear the description of what they saw some time later it is quite a bit different from what they actually saw. Hearsay is unreliable.
3. Misinterpretation. Some actions are entirely innocent but the "victim" misinterprets what he thinks happened. I am pretty sure I saw some evidence of that on that sordid thread.

So is it worth risking someone's reputation and ruining their life over what could possibly be an untrue allegation? It has happened before and will happen again. And with so many names mentioned on that thread I bet ten to one that at least one person has been named wrongly. I don't know who but I do know the law of averages.

Another thing has to be taken into consideration especially when someone has recently died. The innocent relatives are already in a state of grieving. It is wanton cruelty to rub salt in the wound by discussing this stuff so soon after the passing. I know it may have a healing and therapeutic effect on the victims but there has to be a balance.

Finally, as a saintly psychic reverend I shall quote to you from the holy book, "Judge not that ye be not judged". None of us are bloody perfect and we are all sinners in some way or other. Reflect on your own sins before judging others.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 4th, 2022, 1:33 pm

It would be a wonderful thing if there was actually even a fraction of discussion about actual magic on here as there is gossip, prattle, and speaking ill of people. Let whomever is perfect cast the first stone. Whatever the man may have done or not in his life, that's between him and his maker now.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Roger M. » August 4th, 2022, 1:45 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:Whatever the man may have done or not in his life, that's between him and his maker now.

Actually it’s not.
All the kids he abused, and all those folks who support those kids have every right to opine on what a piece of trash Little was.

So in effect, it’s between Little and whomever wants to render their opinion on his abhorrent actions.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 4th, 2022, 2:08 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:It would be a wonderful thing if there was actually even a fraction of discussion about actual magic on here as there is gossip, prattle, and speaking ill of people. Let whomever is perfect cast the first stone. Whatever the man may have done or not in his life, that's between him and his maker now.


Oh, nobody here knows much about magic anyway!

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 4th, 2022, 2:46 pm

Roger M. wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:Whatever the man may have done or not in his life, that's between him and his maker now.

Actually it’s not.
All the kids he abused, and all those folks who support those kids have every right to opine on what a piece of trash Little was.

So in effect, it’s between Little and whomever wants to render their opinion on his abhorrent actions.


Can you provide proof of "all those kids he abused?"

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 4th, 2022, 3:33 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:-

Can you provide proof of "all those kids he abused?"
Many unpleasant word-images come to mind; none of them helpful or kind.
In another setting or time; I hope we can make light of what you chose to write.
Disappointed in NY,
JonT

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 4th, 2022, 3:52 pm


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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 4th, 2022, 4:09 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Roger M. wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:Whatever the man may have done or not in his life, that's between him and his maker now.

Actually it’s not.
All the kids he abused, and all those folks who support those kids have every right to opine on what a piece of trash Little was.

So in effect, it’s between Little and whomever wants to render their opinion on his abhorrent actions.


Can you provide proof of "all those kids he abused?"


I have gone through that Facebook thread quite thoroughly and although I believe the allegations I don't actually see any convincing proof of them. Mostly hearsay and weak evidence that there could be explanations for. The strongest evidence there is that Richard says he knows two victims and I believe him. However, even that is hearsay. Anyone can make accusations. SUBSTANTIATING them is a mite harder. Trial by internet is a very weak way of going about things. If this were a court proceeding there would be cross examination of witnesses and all the hearsay evidence would be thrown out. I doubt he would be convicted on the rather weak evidence we have seen so far.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Robert77 » August 4th, 2022, 6:19 pm

Tarotist wrote:The Magic Cafe like him anyway!

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/vie ... pic=746014


Ahh, synchronicity, demonstrating precisely what allowed the various pedos to ply their trade in secret. I guarantee anyone posting anything negative about him on that thread would get banned.

Also, I find it ironic that magicians are apparently much better about keeping secrets about pedophiles in the ranks than they are about keeping magical secrets.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Robert77 » August 4th, 2022, 6:22 pm

Tarotist wrote:
I doubt he would be convicted on the rather weak evidence we have seen so far.


Which is precisely why victims don't come forward, which is why there's no evidence.

Esp. back in the days before email, videos, and texting so there would be very much less incriminating information.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 4th, 2022, 7:03 pm

Unsubstantiated gossip is not evidence and neither should it be. Furthermore it SHOULD be difficult to prove this stuff when a man's reputation and possibly his freedom is at stake. If someone has been convicted in a court of law then they are fair game. However if they haven't been charged let alone convicted then they are innocent until proven guilty.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 4th, 2022, 7:31 pm

The public facing persona is not at issue here.
Nor is the general topic of abuse/trust in magicdom.
For the clueless: a neutral illustration of our problem by way of a linked image - safe - non-toxic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curate%27 ... _Table.jpg
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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby DennisLisi » August 4th, 2022, 8:02 pm

I have observed several interesting human foibles in my time. One is that our objectivity decreases as our outrage increases. The more heinous the alleged crime, the less we care to give The Benefit of the Doubt.

Another is that those who shout the loudest in condemning the accused, are more likely to be deflecting suspicion from their own guilty consciences.

Yet another is that true objectivity and fairness (innocent until proven guilty, etc.) is often misinterpreted as bias in favour of the accused. It is not.

I was going to say something snide, but I'm glad I didn't.

You folks are absolutely right. It is appalling, the way certain individuals are shielded from scrutiny during their lives. And just think how many of us, in this very forum will never be outed until we're dead. Or do you think we've finally got all The Bad Guys?

That reminds me of another observation. People love a good public trouncing, because it makes them feel like justice has been done at last. But has it? Without a thorough investigation, and testimony from both sides, not likely.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 4th, 2022, 8:13 pm

Plenty of bad actors out there. Coming forward is too traumatic for many victims.
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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Krenz » August 4th, 2022, 8:19 pm

Coming forward is too traumatic for many victims.

Too true.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 4th, 2022, 10:21 pm

Understood there's much appeal to a courtroom catharsis. A noble sounding ambition. In practical reality such drama requires public sacrifices by victims under cross examination. This is truly traumatic for those already harmed.

Pleas for evidence and certainty in this discussion distract from the problem we face now. Naming makes it easier for the victims to #metoo. Hearing #metoo undoes some of the trauma. Then the unthinkable pain no longer isolates the victim - they understand it was not their fault.

Are we in a place where we can treat the bad actors as "unwise associations"? Not book them for events ...?
And in our little society quietly suggest that folks not be alone with them? That won't change the past but it would make things safer in the present.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 5th, 2022, 12:56 am

I almost understood Jonathon's last post but of course not quite. The other ones will require translation.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 5th, 2022, 1:19 am

I did exercise my psychic ability with regard to this matter and got a vision of something I sensed on the internet. And of course if it is on the internet it must be true. Here you are:

"Some states do permit suits for libel or slander to be brought on behalf of the estate of a deceased person in some circumstances. The definition of libel in Texas includes written words that “tend to blacken the memory of the dead.” In Rhode Island there is a right of action if the deceased person was slandered or libelled in an obituary in any newspaper or on any radio or television station within three (3) months of his or her date of death. Many states, including California, will allow personal injury suits (libel and slander are considered personal injuries) filed by a living plaintiff to continue on and be passed to the plaintiff’s successor in interest or personal representative upon the plaintiff’s death. The plaintiff’s estate may then recover if the lawsuit is successful."

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 5th, 2022, 8:54 am

A victim came forward and expressed their anger about a situation.

The responses are telling. Especially the attempts at distraction. In specific, using legalities to stifle a discussion about how to respond to the problem of adults preying upon children.

FYI : https://theconversation.com/amp/women-a ... mens-72572
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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby DennisLisi » August 5th, 2022, 2:17 pm

Speaking of "stifling the discussion", Richard. All I did was remind us that accusers can be liars, and you deleted my comment.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 5th, 2022, 3:59 pm

DennisLisi wrote:Speaking of "stifling the discussion", Richard. All I did was remind us that accusers can be liars, and you deleted my comment.


I found your comments offensive in this context since the multiple accusers are people known to us.
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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby Tarotist » August 5th, 2022, 7:31 pm

I think that Dennis was talking in generalities rather than specifically to this case.

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Re: Bob Little Has Died

Postby DennisLisi » August 5th, 2022, 7:48 pm

Tarotist wrote:I think that Dennis was talking in generalities rather than specifically to this case.


Yes, I can only speak objectively, and in terms of principle, as I don't know anything about this situation.

But that's supposed to be a Good Thing. There's a reason why judges and jurors are required to be impartial.
.


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