Scriptwriting for Magicians

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
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Marty Jacobs
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Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 5th, 2022, 8:20 am

I've rebooted another old post on my blog about scriptwriting. This topic is interesting to me on two levels because I trained as an animator at University and did a bit of scriptwriting in my student days (I also still write scripts and produce storyboards at work). Now, I'm trying to apply some of the standard thinking from the animation, film and television industries to the world of the amateur magician.

I've started with a post on the concepts of premise and plot:

The Power of Premise & Plot

All scriptwriting articles will also be available on the scriptwriting page of the blog for ease of access.

I'm aware of Pete McCabe's excellent books on this topic and will be mentioning them in future posts. The next post will discuss how to apply a theme to a trick or routine, something that I briefly mentioned in the post about premise and plot. What other topics relating to scriptwriting do you think need to be included in this series of articles?

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 5th, 2022, 9:09 am

Marty Jacobs wrote: What other topics relating to scriptwriting do you think need to be included in this series of articles?


Story telling.

I wrap quite a few of my routines inside a story. The stories (virtually all fictitious, some plausible, others very far-fetched) are either about something that happened to me or an experience that I had, or they are about others. People love stories when they are well told, and I find people are very receptive and attentive to magic presented within a story format. I have found that it adds greatly to their enjoyment of the performance of a trick or routine. I have no idea how far storytelling dates back to, but certainly, it would have to be centuries upon centuries.

Stories are so integral to the human experience that they are, at least metaphorically speaking, embedded into the human brain stem. Pople tell stories to one another all the time when they get together socially. Simply put, human beings love stories, and the never-ending popularity of movies, plays, TV shows (both fictional and documentary), novels, non-fiction works of literature, short stories, newspapers, magazines, blogs -- even jokes -- are a powerful testament to this. I find that presenting magic in a story format relaxes spectators, significantly blunts the challenge aspect of the trick, and removes or mitigates the defensiveness that many people have to being "fooled."

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 5th, 2022, 9:22 am

I detest the word "script" for semantic reasons. It conjures up images of the acting profession instead of the magic profession. The word should be PATTER as it has been for decades and decades before someone decided to use this new pretentious term. "Patter" conjures up images of carnival, showmanship, circus, entertainment etc;. "Scripting" conjures up images of the Genii Forum and the Magic Cafe plus "magicians" learning their words off by heart and reciting them like robots.

Still, now that I have vented about that I shall leave the semantic argument aside to deal with the far more important matter of learning your PATTER in the first place. I am an expert in this matter as all pitchmen are. Incidentally, to go off on another semantic irritation the word should NOT be "pitchmen" which is a silly Americanism---it should be GRAFTER which is the British expression. And since Britain is an older and wiser nation that is the expression which naturally should be used.

Anyway, to get back to the subject at hand magicians are under the delusion that there is only two options where this is concerned. One is that you write the whole thing out and learn it off by heart and the other is that you make it up as you go along. Well, both methods are inferior although the first option is slightly better than the second one, although exceedingly boring and laborious. However, there is a THIRD option which will give you fluency, naturalness and an air of spontaneity instead of making you look like a robot. It is the method that I, in my infinite wisdom personally use and is the method that I will expound on when I am in a good mood which happens every few months or so.

In actual fact your patter should be more important than your trick. In fact it is the patter that MAKES the trick. I have very, very, very rarely come across a magician with good patter which is a great pity especially for close up magic. Their uninspiring and frankly unamusing words are the factor which condemns their work to mediocrity. I don't care how good you are technically or if you are the best finger flinger in the world--if your patter is below par then you may as well not bother. And it isn't just the patter---it is how you deliver it. The timing of the words. And HOW you deliver those words. You can talk too much as well as too little. You can talk too loud or too quiet. You can talk too fast or too slow. You can be too bombastic or not bombastic enough. Above all you should be ENTERTAINING! If you are not entertaining you are just demonstrating puzzles and that can get boring very quickly.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 5th, 2022, 9:40 am

Ok, so storytelling is on the list. That makes sense, as we're already talking about some of the fundamentals of storytelling (premise and plot).

I'm not that keen on the term "patter". It sounds trivial. I also don't like the word "spectator" because it suggests the role is passive. For close-up conjuring, I prefer "participant". Yes, these are well-established technical terms used in the magic literature. That doesn't mean they're the best ones to use. They're just the most convenient options.

I prefer the word "script" because it gives the words you say more importance. I don't think it is pretentious. Scripting your magic might only involve writing a bare-bones script. I'm not necessarily advocating a Holywood-style script, although there are benefits to this format.

I'd love to hear other people's opinions on this.

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 5th, 2022, 11:00 am

Anyone who uses the boring word "script" probably has boring patter! I am not joking either! Think about it---if you talk in a boring manner your patter is probably boring too! The word "script" is a very boring word and as an expert in these matters I cannot possibly approve of it.
The word "Patter" may be trivial to you. I can only retort that the word "Scripting" sounds pompous to me.
Anyway I am quite prepared to drop this semantic discussion and merely say that some of the written "scripts" I have seen in books purporting to be good examples of the sort of things one should say are quite uninspiring. As for "stories" I think they are fine providing you don't do too much of them. They are good but of course you can also have too much of a good thing. I wouldn't do more than one (or perhaps two) in a performance.

Anyway, I will tell you of a very effective method of inventing patter that I used decades ago. I don't use it any more but it was very useful for me in my early days. I had a scrapbook full of whimsical phrases that I made up and wrote them up in the book when I would think of them. Silly things like "woofle dust" "it wouldn't be wooden if it wouldn't be wooden---would it" and other expressions either of my own invention or the words of others. I shall show you now how I used to invent those phrases. I am going to look around my room right now where I am typing this. I see a window. The window is made of glass. Glass makes me think of glass eyes. The word "eyes" makes me think of "Aye, Aye" and that could be a good magic word. In the old days I would put in the notebook "Aye, Aye". I would have no idea what trick I would use that expression for but it was stored in the book with hundreds of other silly expressions. The sillier and more whimsical the better. Trivial is better than pompous. Light hearted is better than serious. The more nonsensical and meaningless the better.

Now when I needed to learn a new trick I would search the notebook for inspiration and within its pages I would find lots on nonsensical and amusing things to say. I don't need the book any more because after decades of this sort of thing I can come up with amusing nonsense of al kinds because my brain is now attuned to that sort of thing.

Anyway I DO think it is important that you have something prepared in advance to say providing it is ENTERTAINING. However it is the method of learning this "script" (what a horrible word) that is what I take issue with. I am completely against learning it off by heart like an actor does. You are NOT an actor and I don't give a stuff what Robert Houdin had to say about it. You are a MAGICIAN and you operate in a different way. If you learn something off by heart ten to one you will forget what you are supposed to say and sound stilted anyway. Besides it is a very laborious and time consuming method of learning your patter anyway.

The best method of learning your patter was espoused by Wilfrid Jonson decades ago in a wonderful little book where he makes lot of rude remarks about the incompetent magicians of his day and gives good advice at the same time. The book is called "Mr Smith's Guide to Sleight of Hand" and is not easy to obtain but is worth making the effort to do so. This is what he had to say:
..........................................................................................................................................................................................................

When you set out to do a conjuring trick you must know precisely what you are going to do and there is no reason why you should not also know what you will say. We do not suggest that you should learn every word by heart, as earlier writers have insisted and many conjurers do, but we do suggest that you should know your "main headings" as public speakers do, that is to say, know the general drift of your talk. You will never then be entirely at a loss for words and you will find that, when you have done a trick a few dozen times, you will say much the same things every time you do it. You will then have "set patter" for your trick which will have GROWN to fit you and which you will be able to use with success"
.....................................................................................................................................................................................................

He also writes this elsewhere

.............................................................................................................................:

"This brings us to a debatable question. Should patter be learned by heart? The pundits in general repeat the advice Professor Hoffmann gave. that patter should be written down word for word and delivered from memory. This is, of course, the practice with actors, but the magician differs from the actor in being his own author, and is in another position.

The system adopted by many experienced performers is to memorise only a few "leading lines", a good phrase or two, a suitable joke, and any essential directions, and to fill in the rest as the spirit moves one. Gradually more and more leading lines are thought of until, eventually, the patter is completed and becomes the same at every performance. This system in my experience, produces better results than the laborious practice of sitting down and grinding out lines which are subsequently memorised, lines which often lack all inspiration"
...........................................................................................................................................................................................................
This last little paragraph is the system I have used for decades and is the system I recommend. Any success I have had as an entertainer is because of that little paragraph.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 5th, 2022, 11:34 am

Tarotist wrote:The word "Patter" may be trivial to you. I can only retort that the word "Scripting" sounds pompous to me.


There are good scripts and bad ones. There are good lines of patter and bad ones, too. I agree that calling something a script doesn't automatically make it better. If you prefer the word patter, then I'm okay with that. Patter is the same as a bare-bones script (in my head, at least). If I write down my patter for a trick, that is a script. I'm not sure what else you'd call a document like that.

The benefit of having a script is that it can also include blocking/stage directions, and there is a wealth of information on how to write them. But simply writing down good one-liners or bits of patter in a notebook is also a good approach and much better than "winging it".

I write complete scripts for my tricks, and I do memorise them. However, I don't recite the lines verbatim. Having the script in my head makes it easier to respond to participants and ad-lib during performances because I do not have to make up my patter on the spot. In addition, it allows me to maintain a "mind like water" approach to my performances.

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 5th, 2022, 11:59 am

Another spirited, thought-provoking and enjoyable discussion. I just wish more members would become discussORS, because people have different ideas and slants on things, and they are often good, or even inspired ones, and can be catalysts to help elevate everyone's magic and presentation. Why not speak up and share your thoughts and perspectives?

Although I have no problem with either the words "script" or "patter," I do agree with Mark that it is not good to have memorized, word-for-word patter, or script, or whatever you want to call it. ("What's in a name?") One thing I learned in doing a lot of close-up magic is that the spectators, or "participants," as Marty likes to call them (and I think that's what they are, or ideally should be) are an integral part of an unfolding script that is happening in real time. When I was starting out as a close-up performer, I hated it when people interrupted me with comments or questions, and I tried to return back to my set patter (or script, if you will) as soon as possible. I eventually realized that I was making a big mistake, that their comments and questions were actually a marvelous opportunity -- an opportunity to involve them -- which was something they really wanted, as opposed to merely being passive witnesses to my cleverness. I learned to embrace and encourage their active participation. They often say very clever and funny things, and I came to realize how much it heightens the overall entertainment immeasurably when you just slow down, let them talk, listen to what they say, and play off their comments and questions.

Ultimately I picked up some very useful improvisational skills and became pretty quick on my feet. I found that by allowing it to be an interactive experience, the fun, entertainment and overall experience was greatly enhanced. I also found out that when the host or party planner hears everybody laughing and having a great time, they don't care how or by whom the laughter and fun was generated, and I would end up getting credit for it, and more gigs as a result.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 5th, 2022, 12:40 pm

PS By an amazing coincidence or twist of fate, moments after I wrote my above comment, I came across a video of Paul Daniels performing a trick on the Late Late show. I think this provides a really good illustration of what I was talking about in my post. While Paul Daniels has obviously been wildly successful in magic, here is an example of a missed opportunity to interact with and play off a spectator (and certainly Paul has the quick wit and wherewithal to do so extraordinarily well). At around the 25 to 30 second mark, notice that the attractive lady guest makes the following comment: "And we thought your trousers were falling down."

This was a comment that was clearly not in Paul's prepared script and he not only did he not include it, but he completely ignored the comment and the lady, as well, keeping his back turned to her and pushing on with his presentation. He could have turned around and responded to her maybe something like, "Well that's a whole other trick -- and I don't think we'll be doing that one tonight," or maybe "No, this trick doesn't use a wand," or "Sorry, if you want to see a full moon, you'll need to go outside," or any number of possible comebacks. He missed a golden opportunity to acknowledge and include the lady guest, and make her feel like she was part of the entertainment, and most likely get a great laugh in the bargain. Not trying to be critical here, but I thought this was a good example.

Here's the segment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXODoHIoExE

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 5th, 2022, 2:12 pm

I don't think we should ban the words "patter" and "spectator"; we all know what they mean. But the words and labels we use do influence our attitude and mindset (and the attitude and mindset of others). For example, the term "user" in the IT section is well established, but some IT professionals do not like it because the only other industry that uses that term, in the same way, is the illegal drug trade!

If I call them "spectators" in my head, this subtly encourages me to treat them as such. When performing close-up magic, I want to turn people from spectators into active participants as quickly as possible. One of the best ways to do this is to have a script that includes questions. I'm used to doing this when I teach. You must have prepared questions if you want your participants to engage with your learning content.

As Alfred suggests, magic is more fun when we allow our audiences to interrupt us. I think some performers dislike this because they lump all audience interaction into the "heckler" category. Close-up magic is a conversational art form and we should treat it as such.

In Paul's defence, the woman who makes that comment is his wife (Debbie McGee). It is traditional in the UK for husbands to ignore their wives! ;)

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 5th, 2022, 2:16 pm

There was a VERY good reason that Paul didn't respond to that lady. She was his wife! He probably learned from past experience not to respond to wives for obvious reasons!

Oddly enough I was also on that show myself. I was delighted that all the local Irish magicians were furious concerning the matter. Serves them all right! A long story..........................

I see Marty has used the lamentable word "blocking". That irritates me more than "scripting". I have no idea why.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 5th, 2022, 2:25 pm

I quite agree that when doing close up magic it is better for the audience (I refuse to use the word "participants" because I don't like that one either!) to join in and I don't mind if they heckle either. However, there is one situation where interruptions are forbidden and that is the grafting situation or to use that other silly word "pitching" situation. Interruptions can cost you actually money there. What I do in those situations depending on how bad tempered I am at the time is have a bicycle horn and honk it in the offender's face and snarl "QUIET". The audience laughs and it shuts the offender up.

Don't do this in situations where you are trying to entertain people though. Only do it when you are trying your hardest to rip them off.................

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Jack Shalom » November 5th, 2022, 3:47 pm

Anyone who uses the boring word "script" probably has boring patter! I am not joking either! Think about it---if you talk in a boring manner your patter is probably boring too!


I guess if you use an old-fashioned word like "patter" then your magic is old-fashioned, too.

Just sayin'...

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 5th, 2022, 4:11 pm

I have a talent for using your least favourite words, Mark! In my defence, I work at a university with an acting school and occasionally teach in our Department for Literature, Film and Theatre Studies. I've always considered magic to be performance art and, for that reason, tend to gravitate towards theatrical terminology.

You don't have to view it this way. As Eugene Burger said, magic "is a house with many rooms," and I'm in the one with the scriptwriters.

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 5th, 2022, 4:44 pm

Jack Shalom wrote:
Anyone who uses the boring word "script" probably has boring patter! I am not joking either! Think about it---if you talk in a boring manner your patter is probably boring too!


I guess if you use an old-fashioned word like "patter" then your magic is old-fashioned, too.

Just sayin'...


It IS old fashioned and so it bloody well should be! I utterly refuse to perform in the modern way which means foul language on stage and people dressed in their street clothes with tattoos all down their arms looking as if they have just come out of jail. Mind you my old fashioned magic seems to be a hit on this daft modern TicTok whatever the hell that is. MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF VIEWS! Not bad for old fashioned magic is it?

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 5th, 2022, 4:52 pm

Marty Jacobs wrote:I have a talent for using your least favourite words, Mark! In my defence, I work at a university with an acting school and occasionally teach in our Department for Literature, Film and Theatre Studies. I've always considered magic to be performance art and, for that reason, tend to gravitate towards theatrical terminology.

You don't have to view it this way. As Eugene Burger said, magic "is a house with many rooms," and I'm in the one with the scriptwriters.

Marty


AN ACTING SCHOOL? No bloody wonder! I might have known! No wonder you have come out with all those fancy words. I have never yet seen a single good magician who has ever come out of acting school although for all I know you may be an exception. I recoil in utter horror when someone tells me they have been to acting school! I feel quite faint after reading this and think I will take to my bed with the horror of this revelation.

I do agree that magic is a performance art but I shall let Eugene Burger stay in his room and I shall stay in mine. I have read his books and tried to like them but can't quite manage it. I bet he went to acting school too with all this chatter about learning things off by heart and a tendency to overpresent.

The only good performer I can think of who went to acting school is Jolly Roger AKA Roger Blakiston. However, he got thrown out so I think that rather proves my case.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 5th, 2022, 5:29 pm

I didn't say I went to acting school. I didn't. I trained as an animator (which does involve elements of acting). I work with people who teach acting, though. They don't teach magic to their students and the actors in training don't want to be magicians, they want to be actors.

I can think of a lot of good magicians who have a theatrical background. Whit Haydn and Andy Nyman are two good examples. There are plenty more.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 5th, 2022, 6:22 pm

I can always tell if a performer has had acting training. They tend to be over loud and artificial. I think my bias against actor/magicians first took roots when I used to see Orson Welles doing magic on late night television and boring everyone to tears. He was really good on chat shows where he talked like a normal human being and didn't give scripted answers.

Anyway, I suppose I had better exert myself to read your article on the subject.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby BarryAllen » November 5th, 2022, 6:28 pm

As Alfred points out, another interesting thread.

I don't think there's any wrong or right way with patter - I think it depends upon the individual. What do I mean by this?

Well, what works for me is that I just find it more natural to go with the flow. I must be lucky and a natural blagger - never lost for words. Maybe it's because us Cockneys are vaccinated at birth with a gramophone needle! ;)

If I had to recite pre-arranged essays, personally I wouldn't feel natural. Not feeling natural performing would, I believe, lead to a lack of confidence. As we all know, that can become so obvious to an audience, that they begin to feel uncomfortable as well.

As for patter, I have never written it out and learnt it - well certainly NOT for performing Magic.

However, I HAVE previously written out lists of gags and put them into groupings. This was because for many years, I worked as a Stand-up Comic; primarily compering Stag Nights (Bucks Parties). These were on shows, usually working with a couple of girls who kept taking their kit off for some reason (in other words - Jack the Rippers). I don't know if these type of shows are popular outside of the UK? Even here nowadays, they seem to have died off, thanks to council regulations, etc.

You had to have a lot of material for these shows - the warm up spot was usually 45 minutes. As I primarily delivered one-liners, not long drawn out jokes, it required not only a good memory but also a knowledge of how to change direction. Clearly working the British Airways Club at Gatwick for pilots, required a tad less 'blue' material than working a rugby or football club full of boozed-up blokes.

In other words, take my opening routine of (for example) 'when I was driving here tonight' - there were around a dozen one-liners. For a more up-market stag audience, you may have to miss out gags 3, 7 and 10. If using the same routine for a mixed (Male/Female) Cabaret audience, you may have to drop 3, 5, 7, 9 & 10 and replace them with five 'cleaner' lines. It may sound confusing but when I'd memorised the routines mentally, I could literally switch into autopilot for whatever was required. Much more importantly, was getting the timing right - particularly when switching 'on the hoof'. Take my word on this - being a Comedian is a lot bloody harder than being a Magician!

For certain audiences, generally for businessmen or Masonic shows, Magic went over as well as the gags. The only time that I wouldn't perform Magic on these occasions was if there was a Magician working a Guest Spot - generally on larger shows. More often than not it would be Terry Seabrooke or another superb Magician - Mike Cassidy (we all worked for a superb agent - Crown Entertainments). Mike is probably unknown to many but he had a very good, well worked out act. His T&R Newspaper was sublime. He also juggled with real axes - it was very entertaining - and somewhat dangerous. Well it was entertaining until one night - whilst (as always, deliberately) dropping an axe at the start, he hadn't noticed just how close he was to the microphone lead.....CHOP! Luckily, I carried a spare.

Pat Page also worked many Stag Nights - albeit he'd packed them up by the time I started in the 90s.

Sorry I've flown off at a tangent (again).

Anyway, what I was going to say is that although I don't learn patter, there are one-liners that I will use at certain times in particular Magic routines, because I know that they'll raise a laugh.

What I would finally add is that I cringe watching many Magicians, because of their pointless, unnecessary use of some words. How many times do we hear - "take a card......that's exxxxxcellent, sign it please......that's briiiiilliant, now put it back......that's exxxxxcellent".

Jeeeeeezus wept!

Maybe these guys, more than anyone, need to think about writing out their patter/script - well in advance of subjecting an audience to such mind-numbing drivel.

Thats just my Two Bob's worth anyway.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 5th, 2022, 6:37 pm

I think I remember Mike Cassidy. I vaguely remember having some kind of business conversation with him at the Blackpool convention. It was so long ago that I have no idea what it was all about.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 5th, 2022, 7:34 pm

I think some charismatic performers can get away without scripting their magic (I mention this in the blog article). However, I don't think the same holds true for most hobbyists like myself. I don't perform enough to polish my presentations through trial and error. So, I'd rather do it by editing a script (and a lot of rehearsal). Then, when I perform, the end result is much better, and my audience doesn't suffer due to my lack of preparation.

I agree about the repetitive phrases. "Perfect" is another word lots of magicians overuse. "Can you cut the cards for me? Perfect. Pick a card, perfect..." Scripting also helps reduce disfluencies (uhms and ahhs).

I still think any performer would benefit from some form of scriptwriting. Or, perhaps we could call it a "presentation plan" as it doesn't need to include a script in the strictest sense; maybe just a collection of critical phrases and one-liners to use when performing the trick.

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby BarryAllen » November 5th, 2022, 7:38 pm

Tarotist wrote:I think I remember Mike Cassidy. I vaguely remember having some kind of business conversation with him at the Blackpool convention. It was so long ago that I have no idea what it was all about.

This is Mike:

https://youtu.be/0Ys8xA6ZFSU

Typical - I said above how well he did the T&R Newspaper and in this clip, it must be the worst I've ever seen him perform it!

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby BarryAllen » November 5th, 2022, 7:48 pm

Marty Jacobs wrote:I agree about the repetitive phrases. "Perfect" is another word lots of magicians overuse. "Can you cut the cards for me? Perfect. Pick a card, perfect..." Scripting also helps reduce disfluencies (uhms and ahhs).

Yes indeed Marty, 'Perfect' is another word used far to often!

Uhms and Ahhs - sometimes, that can indeed be a sign of nerves, particularly with less experienced performers.

Outside of Magic. the thing that grates on me more than anything these days, is the apparent inability of people to commence ANY sentence without using the word "So"! :evil:

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 6th, 2022, 12:13 am

BarryAllen wrote:
Tarotist wrote:I think I remember Mike Cassidy. I vaguely remember having some kind of business conversation with him at the Blackpool convention. It was so long ago that I have no idea what it was all about.

This is Mike:

https://youtu.be/0Ys8xA6ZFSU

Typical - I said above how well he did the T&R Newspaper and in this clip, it must be the worst I've ever seen him perform it!


Good God! He didn't look like that then! Mind you it was about 45 years ago or so!

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 6th, 2022, 12:43 am

In actual fact I DO think that even charismatic performers need to prepare their patter. If they do then it makes them more charismatic. However, it is the method of preparing rather than the preparation itself that I am complaining about. I am not talking about "trial and error" in my method. And neither do you have to be professional to use the system I am advocating. In actual fact you can perform every single day even as a complete amateur. I know that is exactly what I did before I ever earned a penny doing magic. I imagine that if you work in a university there would be boundless opportunities to perform impromptu. Using my system shouldn't take more than 3 performances to become set in the memory.

Again THIS is what I advocate. In the words of Wilfrid Jonson again.

"The system adopted by many experienced performers is to memorise only a few "leading lines", a good phrase or two, a suitable joke, and any essential directions, and to fill in the rest as the spirit moves one. Gradually more and more leading lines are thought of until, eventually, the patter is completed and becomes the same at every performance. This system in my experience, produces better results than the laborious practice of sitting down and grinding out lines which are subsequently memorised, lines which often lack all inspiration"

In other words you have an outline of what you wish to say and remember the main headings then you go ahead and speak from the heart. That is what really good public speakers do. They may only give the speech once but they don't write it down or learn it off by heart. Think about it. Even magic lecturers don't learn their 90 minute or more lectures off by heart do they? Another example is that as you can judge from my user name I do Tarot readings. I can't say the same thing every time to people because different cards come up and every reading has to be different because I am reading for different people. I CAN"T use a memorised script (which would be fraudulent in any case) so I have to speak like a normal human being. When the cards are laid out a story appears and I just read the story IN MY OWN WORDS as it appears right in front of me.

I will concede that Wilfrid Jonson did write after the small paragraph I quoted the following words ""But, until you have gained some of the assurance which comes with experience, perhaps you will do well to take Professor Hoffman's advice and learn your stuff by heart"

He also hinted in his writing that magicians talk too much (I expect he must have visited America). I rather liked it when he writes "It is not for him to give what Pantagruel calls 'shews without substance, by means of the babling tattle'. Alas I have seen too many performers indulge in this "babling tattle" Usually the ones with written scripts...................

Oh, one more thing. One other thing and I will leave this subject. I did peruse an excellent book by Pete McCabe called "Scripting Magic" It was well written and gave good advice. Alas however it went and spoiled everything by giving various scripts by alleged notables in magic as examples of what to do. I suppose they were learned by rote as seems to be the common (and to my biased mind -faulty} practice. I must say that they were all very uninspiring! Oddly enough the only "script" that was half decent was that of Pete himself!

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 6th, 2022, 12:57 am

Oh, as Columbo used to say, "just one more thing". I did have a cursory look at Marty's article and looked at one paragraph which ironically proves my point. Here it is:

"My mother was a primary school teacher. She used to write detailed lesson plans. One day, I asked her why she bothered to do this because writing them was onerous (she often stayed up late to finish them off). She said that, while she didn't enjoy writing them, the lessons with a plan were always more successful than those without. I think the same holds true for scriptwriting. If I write a script for a trick, the probability that I'll have a successful performance increases. Equally, the chance that something will go wrong also diminishes significantly. In short, the effort is well worth the reward"

In other words his mother PLANNED and PREPARED for the lesson but I bet she didn't learn what to say off by heart! I bet she didn't memorise the script of the entire lesson or if she did then she would be extremely daft to do so! She did exactly what I am advocating. She merely wrote a plan. In other words the main headings as I am advocating. She didn't even have to memorise those main headings as a magician does. I bet she had notes she could consult quite openly during the lesson. I know when I was at school a thousand years ago or so not one teacher memorised the entire lesson by heart in the same way that some daft magicians do. No. A far better plan is to get a rough idea what you are going to say and speak like a normal human being just like your mother did. I bet SHE never went to acting school!

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 6th, 2022, 7:02 am

I think you're misrepresenting my article a little here. I'm not advocating that everyone must write a detailed script. In fact, a "presentation plan" would suffice for many, more experienced performers. The document might include a premise for the trick, along with key words, phrases and lines of patter. I'm also not suggesting that a lesson or lecture is equivalent to a performance of magic (although teaching does involve elements of a performance).

My mother was a dedicated teacher. I can guarantee that she would have written a full script if she was performing a magic trick for her pupils.

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby BarryAllen » November 6th, 2022, 8:06 am

Tarotist wrote:Good God! He didn't look like that then! Mind you it was about 45 years ago or so!

That might have something to do with it. :lol:

Or maybe juggling sharp (and they certainly were!) axes speeds up the ageing process. I know it would do for me.

He had some nice uses of the Top Change within that snippet of his act - who says you can't perform card tricks on stage!

The irrelevant things we remember at times - unlike in this clip, Mike always used Red Bicycle League backs for some obscure reason (I never did ask why - he never performed any Ted Annemann effects!). He'd also practice his one-handed card fanning for ages, before going on.

Another totally irrelevant point to this discussion springs to mind - albeit it fits in to what we recently discussed. I remember we were chatting in the dressing room about Ken Brooke. Mike said he went into Ken's Studio one Saturday and Ken had his working suitcase of props open on the sofa, as he was preparing things for an engagement that evening. He noticed that along with the Multiplying Martini Bottles, etc. Ken had a set of Cups & Balls in the case; whereas he expected to see a Chop Cup. When Mike asked Ken about this, Ken replied along the lines of 'I might dem, sell and rave about the Chop Cup - but it's still the Cups & Balls every time for me'.

I enjoyed working with Mike. He was always very polite, grounded and quite obviously, a very seasoned pro.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 6th, 2022, 8:15 am

Thanks, Barry. I always like hearing stories about magicians like Ken. I don't think personalities like that are common anymore.

By the way, I've created a poll on this topic. It would appreciate it if you could vote:

Scriptwriting Poll

Thanks,

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 6th, 2022, 9:25 am

BarryAllen wrote: As for patter, I have never written it out and learnt it - well certainly NOT for performing Magic.

However, I HAVE previously written out lists of gags and put them into groupings.


I can relate to that, Barry. For years I have kept a WORD document I call "Jokes, Gags & Lines." It is currently about 60 pages, and I add to it fairly frequently. Some of the lines are "stock" magician lines that consistently get a good reaction, although I try to avoid the real corny ones. I also avoid using lines that I know are unique to a certain magician. I try to review the document fairly frequently so that the contents remain relatively fresh in my mind.

Some of the gags and lines and bits of business are of my own devising; some I have found online, or in books and articles; others are actually funny and/or clever things people I've performed for have said, making a note of the ones I could remember iwhen I had the chance; still others (quite a few) are of my own devising. Many of them are suitable to throw into one or more particular routines (e.g. Invisible Deck, Chop Cup/Cups and Balls, Multiplying Rabbits etc.), while there are those bits that I might use off-the-cuff when the right opportunity arises, such as in addressing a comment or question from a spectator (a/k/a participant), yet it will sound like something I just came up with.

I have also learned to listen carefully to what people say and to improvise witty responses (or try to -- sometimes I fall flat). So these jokes, gags and lines have a modular element to them and I try to call upon and use the right pieces at the right time.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby BarryAllen » November 6th, 2022, 9:35 am

Marty Jacobs wrote:Thanks, Barry. I always like hearing stories about magicians like Ken. I don't think personalities like that are common anymore.

By the way, I've created a poll on this topic. It would appreciate it if you could vote:

Scriptwriting Poll

Thanks,

Marty

Hi Marty,

I voted Never, simply because I cannot recall ever having written anything down - not for a Magic trick anyway mate.

However, as outlined above, I most certainly have written down routines of one-liners; and listed prompt words; to remind me of some longer gags, when performing comedy.

This has actually got me thinking of something - somewhat (I think) related to what you have asked.

There are many times when, being at a certain stage, the PROP itself has reminded me of certain gags or lines - throughout the performance.

A few examples of this, so that hopefully you understand what I'm getting at here.

The opener that I more often than not used; from squeaky-clean Cabaret through to robust Stag audiences; was the Road Sign. At particular phases of the routine, the visual element prompted the relevant patter or gag.

The same can be said for the Cut & Restored Rope and Stand-up Sponge Ball routines (both the superb Joe Riding's versions); and the Burnt Note to Bill Tube (that I would arrange to have one of the bar staff bring from the back of the audience, on a tray next to a glass of whatever the helper was drinking).

In ALL of these Stand-up routines, I honestly cannot say whether it was the patter/gag that meant I was at a certain phase with the prop - or indeed whether it was the prop causing me to be at a specific phase to deliver the line........it all just seemed to blend into one!

In other words, was I actually scripting the routine - albeit in my head?

As an aside, performing Cabaret/Stand-up was, for me anyway, a completely different beast to working Close-up. For Close-up, as I mentioned above, I just wing it with gags, or responding with quips to what a spectator says (or does), etc.

I really must get around to recording myself some time whilst performing Close-up. I may find out that I'm just spouting a load of complete and utter B@!!@€k$ afterall. :o

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 6th, 2022, 9:46 am

I remember when I was young and in school I would write out scripts for tricks. Of course I soon got fed up with that so nowadays when I want to learn a new trick and put some patter to it I just take the props in my hand and go through the trick and come up with the patter while I am doing so. I more or less remember what I intend to say and plan it beforehand. There is a little bit of rehearsal using the words. Eventually when I perform it for real people I more or less know what to say but it is NEVER learned by heart. When you learn something by rote it sounds like it. When performing close up magic in an informal way you can't chatter like an actor who has learned his lines for a play. You have to talk in an informal way but be entertaining at the same time.

As for Ken Brooke he was a CHARACTER. And being a character is part and parcel of your magic. If you are not a character of some kind you may as well not bother. Too many "magicians" have got the personality of a dial tone. A performers job is not to present magic. It is to present HIMSELF presenting magic.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby BarryAllen » November 6th, 2022, 10:00 am

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I can relate to that, Barry. For years I have kept a WORD document I call "Jokes, Gags & Lines." It is currently about 60 pages, and I add to it fairly frequently.

Excellent observations throughout your post mate. ;)

If I can just give a couple of tips, if you put in one-liners or quick gags.

If a line that you find funny falls flat on its @rse, it could be that either the audience didn't hear it OR you may just need to turn around/change a word or two, so that it has a better impact.

However, if it falls flat constantly, then drop it - no matter how funny you may think it is.

For example, I adore sarcasm - but this doesn't always play well - particularly with women. So you obviously (I'm no doubt teaching you to suck eggs here) need to read your audience and deliver what fits.

As an aside, if a regularly funny gag does fall flat for whatever reason, I've often used the ploy of smiling at them, saying "here's another one you won't get". For some reason, they then find this line funny and laugh......strange people us humans!

Now, why I've pasted your section above, is just to make you aware of something - that I oh so wish I had done myself!

The tip is - always write the joke out in full!

Last year, I found one of my notebooks with lists of one or two word prompts. Now maybe because I'm pushing towards 60 and haven't performed any Stand-up comedy since before the Pandemic - but I can't for the bloody life of me remember the gags that accompanied some of the prompt words - and there were some crackers.

For example - I've written '£15 Grand Conservatory/Barbecue'. Whatever joke that was, I cannot for the life of me remember - but I DO remember it always went over so well - work that out!

Sadly, there are a few like that. Therefore, as well as the Peg Words, I should have written the joke out, in full, on another page.

We live and (are never too old to) learn.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 6th, 2022, 11:29 am

Great tips, Barry, thanks!

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 6th, 2022, 12:27 pm

BarryAllen wrote:
Tarotist wrote:I think I remember Mike Cassidy. I vaguely remember having some kind of business conversation with him at the Blackpool convention. It was so long ago that I have no idea what it was all about.

This is Mike:

https://youtu.be/0Ys8xA6ZFSU

Typical - I said above how well he did the T&R Newspaper and in this clip, it must be the worst I've ever seen him perform it!


It is a typically British type of act. I suspect that Americans might be slightly taken aback by the material and the approach. I also see that he makes fun of poor David Blaine! As for the newspaper trick it looked fine to me.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 6th, 2022, 12:38 pm

Thanks, everyone, for your contributions to this thread. It is interesting to hear the different approaches people take. The tip that the prop can prompt a joke or line is very helpful. Thanks, Barry!

I think some experienced close-up performers don't need to write a script. But I still believe that beginners, in particular, benefit from writing down their patter. I like the idea of producing a "presentation plan" or maintaining a book of jokes and one-liners. If I recall correctly, UK comedian Bob Monkhouse did this, and somebody stole them (I think he managed to recover them, in the end).

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 6th, 2022, 1:05 pm

I think when I first started I remembered the sample patter that was often given in the books I learned the tricks from. And I more or less used that! I certainly did this with the Royal Road to Card Magic.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 6th, 2022, 2:15 pm

Tarotist wrote:I think when I first started I remembered the sample patter that was often given in the books I learned the tricks from. And I more or less used that! I certainly did this with the Royal Road to Card Magic.


Me too. And actually, my first book on card magic was Scarne on Card Tricks, a book I love to this day. Scarne supplied some succinct patter or stories to go with most of the tricks. He also emphasized in the Introduction how important patter (again, I have no problem with the word "scripting") was to the entertaining presentation of a trick. I feel like I was lucky because that book started me off on the right foot in my aspirations to be a close-up performer.

It wasn't until years later, however, until Bill Malone performed for my then-girlfriend and me in a restaurant in South Florida that I knew I wanted to incorporate comedy into my magic, in fact, to make it central to my presentations. Being made to laugh so hard and being amazed at the same time, heightened the entertainment and enjoyment immeasurably. I quickly realized I couldn't (and shouldn't try to) be like Bill, but ultimately, through trial and error, developed my own style. I have had quite a few people for whom I've performed tell me that, although they had seen magicians before, the comedy aspect was completely new to them, and that they really liked and enjoyed it. A comedic style is certainly not for everyone, but at least for close-up magic, good patter (that is not long-winded, or merely a narrative of what you're doing), that goes well with the trick, is IMHO, essential to the entertaining presentation of magic.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Paco Nagata » November 6th, 2022, 5:58 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I find that presenting magic in a story format relaxes spectators, significantly blunts the challenge aspect of the trick, and removes or mitigates the defensiveness that many people have to being "fooled."

I love story-tellings during a magic show, and this Alfred's statement is the principal premiss to me for proceeding with it.

Instead of focusing your effort on just trying to make spectators believe you just did magic, try sometimes to focus your effort on communicating funny, thrilling, touching, comical... stories through your magic, letting them enjoying your magic at leisure.

It's not about adorning magic with storytellings, but just the opposite: adorning stories with real magic.
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 6th, 2022, 6:58 pm

Paco Nagata wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:I find that presenting magic in a story format relaxes spectators, significantly blunts the challenge aspect of the trick, and removes or mitigates the defensiveness that many people have to being "fooled."

I love story-tellings during a magic show, and this Alfred's statement is the principal premiss to me for proceeding with it.

Instead of focusing your effort on just trying to make spectators believe you just did magic, try sometimes to focus your effort on communicating funny, thrilling, touching, comical... stories through your magic, letting them enjoying your magic at leisure.

It's not about adorning magic with storytellings, but just the opposite: adorning stories with real magic.


Very well said, Paco.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 6th, 2022, 8:28 pm

I have a very large repertoire and as a result of this thread decided to count the tricks I do where a story of some kind is told. I have found five and that is it! I actually thought there was less but five it is! Mind you four of them are card tricks and only one isn't!


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