Scriptwriting for Magicians

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 6th, 2022, 8:41 pm

Tarotist wrote:I have a very large repertoire and as a result of this thread decided to count the tricks I do where a story of some kind is told. I have found five and that is it! I actually thought there was less but five it is! Mind you four of them are card tricks and only one isn't!


Does that include the poetry ones? They would qualify as stories, of sorts, I think.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 6th, 2022, 9:37 pm

Yes. Two poetry and three non-poetry. Uh oh! I just remembered! I have another story trick with a silk handkerchief!

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby BarryAllen » November 7th, 2022, 3:32 pm

I remember when Dad gave me his Davenports 'Soft Soap' trick - complete with Lux soap boxes.

Finding a rhyme in a Demon Telegraph (Davenports in-house Magic Mag), I remember learning it at the time. 45 years later, the only lines I seem to remember are:
"I'm green at laundry work but shucks
I simply cannot fail with Lux".

I don't think the rest of the rhyme/story was much better.

Also, I can't remember where I learnt this rhyme but it was to accompany the Chinese Sticks. It started:
"Over here I have two strings
Both of which do crazy things
When one is long the other's short
The strangest trick I ever bought"

I cannot remember whether that also came from a Demon Telegraph, or some other source that I read?

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Jack Shalom » November 7th, 2022, 3:36 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Paco Nagata wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:I find that presenting magic in a story format relaxes spectators, significantly blunts the challenge aspect of the trick, and removes or mitigates the defensiveness that many people have to being "fooled."

I love story-tellings during a magic show, and this Alfred's statement is the principal premiss to me for proceeding with it.

Instead of focusing your effort on just trying to make spectators believe you just did magic, try sometimes to focus your effort on communicating funny, thrilling, touching, comical... stories through your magic, letting them enjoying your magic at leisure.

It's not about adorning magic with storytellings, but just the opposite: adorning stories with real magic.


Very well said, Paco.


Agreed, but side dish, not entrée

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Q. Kumber
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Q. Kumber » November 7th, 2022, 4:43 pm

BarryAllen wrote:
Also, I can't remember where I learnt this rhyme but it was to accompany the Chinese Sticks. It started:
"Over here I have two strings
Both of which do crazy things
When one is long the other's short
The strangest trick I ever bought"

I cannot remember whether that also came from a Demon Telegraph, or some other source that I read?


It's from Roy Johnson's Final Call pub. Goodliffe 1979

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 7th, 2022, 4:49 pm

Here are my story tricks. I bet some of you do them already and probably tell the same story!

1. Six Card Repeat
2. Tipsy Trick (from the Royal Road to Card Magic)
3. I can't remember the name of this one but it comes from the Stars of Magic. A Vernon item about a one armed gambler cutting to the four aces.
4. I forget the name of this one too. It is the rhyming story of a card trick pretending to be a love story from Expert Card Technique
5. My thimble routing with rhyming patter
6. Sucker Silk

I probably have about 100 tricks in my performing repertoire. Only 6 with a story though! I think that is more than enough! Now I know children's entertainers often have story tricks in their show. Not me! Not a single one! I do want the kids to stay awake after all!

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Paco Nagata
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Paco Nagata » November 7th, 2022, 4:56 pm

Jack Shalom wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Paco Nagata wrote:I love story-tellings during a magic show, and this Alfred's statement is the principal premiss to me for proceeding with it.

Instead of focusing your effort on just trying to make spectators believe you just did magic, try sometimes to focus your effort on communicating funny, thrilling, touching, comical... stories through your magic, letting them enjoying your magic at leisure.

It's not about adorning magic with storytellings, but just the opposite: adorning stories with real magic.


Very well said, Paco.


Agreed, but side dish, not entrée


Agreed with you there too, but sometimes entrée has not much sense without some side dishes.
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 7th, 2022, 9:37 pm

I vaguely remember Darwin Ortiz saying in his book that the story should not overshadow the magic. In other words you don't want the story to be so captivating that it dilutes the effect of the magic. Or at least I think he wrote that. If he did I would certainly agree with him.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby BarryAllen » November 8th, 2022, 6:10 am

You are correct Mark.

In Strong Magic, Darwin explains how the story should be used primarily just to 'transport the spectators minds' to a particular place. It should not then be the main focus of what happens next (or that's how I read it).

He also includes a wonderful quote from Jean Hugard:
“The art of the storyteller and the art of the magician have much in common. With both the appeal is to the imagination.”

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 8th, 2022, 8:40 pm

I have always liked the Strong Magic book. Very sound thinking and I agree with pretty much most of it.

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Marty Jacobs
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 9th, 2022, 5:04 am

Thanks for sharing information on your working repertoire, Mark. I find this kind of thing fascinating.

One hundred items in your working repertoire; that's impressive. I have about ten, but they frequently change depending on what I'm reading/studying. If someone asks to see some magic, I tend to perform whatever trick I'm currently developing (scripting, practising and rehearsing).

Some tricks, mainly card-magic classics, stay in my repertoire permanently. I usually have more than one way of presenting these routines. For example, I perform Vernon's "Twisting the Aces" three ways: in the traditional manner, as described by Lewis Ganson, as a silly piece of imaginative play that I call "Pasteboard Puppies", and with different cards ("Crazy Eights") because there are too many tricks that use the Aces. Interestingly, these scripts have caused me to alter the premise and method in each case. I'll be discussing these presentations in detail in my next two posts.

I've studied storytelling for a long time (and taught it at university on a creative media course). All communication is, on some level, a form of storytelling. For example, in the Pasteboard Puppies presentation I mentioned above, I tell my audience that my Dad didn't let me have a dog when I was a young boy. However, the rest of the trick is not what most would consider a story trick, e.g., "Color Monte" or "Sam the Bellhop". Instead, they're helping me train the playing cards to do tricks. It is daft, but it goes down an absolute storm with dog people and gives them a story to tell other people later.

Marty

P.S. I also love Strong Magic.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 9th, 2022, 9:02 am

I suppose I had better explain what I mean by my "working repertoire". I was not talking about my professional repertoire when I said I had 100 tricks. The tricks I do professionally would be far less, probably about 30 or so. However, those 30 would be divided up between my kid show, my adult cabaret and my trade show repertoire.

However, I am constantly performing impromptu magic from a hobby point of view that I never get paid for and of course over the decades you learn an awful lot of tricks. I do them all well but sometimes I neglect some of them and then return to them later. I am well aware of the standard wisdom that it is better to do 8 tricks well than 100 badly but my attitude is why not do 100 well? I do remember somebody years ago arguing with me on this point saying it was impossible to learn 100 well but of course he was talking nonsense. After all I was Mark Lewis and he wasn't!

Incidentally talking about story magic I have a friend who has written an entire book of card tricks with a story theme. His name is Ariel Frailich and he has written a well received book called "Card Stories"

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Marty Jacobs
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 9th, 2022, 11:59 am

Tarotist wrote:I suppose I had better explain what I mean by my "working repertoire". I was not talking about my professional repertoire when I said I had 100 tricks. The tricks I do professionally would be far less, probably about 30 or so. However, those 30 would be divided up between my kid show, my adult cabaret and my trade show repertoire.

Ah, right. I think my definition of a "working repertoire" is the same as what you call "professional repertoire". And I agree that it is possible to learn hundreds of tricks and perform them well, although most amateur magicians struggle to do this. The more important part of that quote isn't the number of tricks, but his definition of "knowing" a trick:

"For some years my repertoire consisted of eight tricks, but I knew them thoroughly. I was always ready to show them at any time, at any place, under any conditions. Until a man knows a trick so well that he is always ready to do it when he is called upon for a trick, he does not really know it."

That David Devant quote is taken out of context. He was talking about knowing how a trick is done (the workings of the method) as opposed to knowing how to do it (perform it in an entertaining manner). And while David Devant had eight tricks in his repertoire for "some years", he did eventually expand it to include more.

I can perform about ten tricks without thinking (and with a decent presentation). There are plenty more that I know well, but I'd need to refresh my memory before attempting to perform them.

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 9th, 2022, 12:48 pm

Marty Jacobs wrote:
"For some years my repertoire consisted of eight tricks, but I knew them thoroughly. I was always ready to show them at any time, at any place, under any conditions. Until a man knows a trick so well that he is always ready to do it when he is called upon for a trick, he does not really know it."

That David Devant quote is taken out of context. He was talking about knowing how a trick is done (the workings of the method) as opposed to knowing how to do it (perform it in an entertaining manner). And while David Devant had eight tricks in his repertoire for "some years", he did eventually expand it to include more.

I can perform about ten tricks without thinking (and with a decent presentation). There are plenty more that I know well, but I'd need to refresh my memory before attempting to perform them.

Marty


I have covered this Devant quote in my most worthy Annotated Royal Road to Card Magic thus:
........................................................................................................................................................................................................

The origin of this story is quite interesting. The young man in question was a fellow
named Fred Culpitt who later became a very accomplished performer who delighted in
telling this story against himself.
However, Devant himself describes the incident in his book (Lessons in Conjuring)
published in 1922 thus:

“Some years ago, when I was performing at the old Egyptian Hall twice a day and was in
the habit of receiving more offers of private engagements than I could possibly accept, a
young conjurer called to see me. I asked him how many tricks he knew. He made a rapid
calculation and replied” “About three hundred.” I told him that I knew eight tricks
myself. He seemed to be very puzzled but he is puzzled no longer by that reply, for he
has since learned wisdom and is now a very popular performer; he now appreciates the
difference between knowing how a trick is done and knowing how to do it.
When I told this young conjurer that I knew eight tricks, I meant, of course, that I
performed eight tricks. That was quite true. For some years my repertoire consisted of
eight tricks, but I knew them thoroughly. I was always ready to show them at any time,
at any place, under any conditions. Until a man knows a trick so well that he is always
ready to do it when he is called upon for a trick, he does not really know it.
To the amateur who has a superficial knowledge of many tricks and an unfortunate
habit of bungling even the simplest of them, my method of teaching will seem to be
painfully slow. I must ask that young man to take my word for it that my method is
sound. If he will take some of the tricks in this book and practice them according to my
directions he will certainly know those tricks thoroughly. That knowledge will have
some value, because in any assembly the man who can respond to the request: “Show us
a trick” is usually very popular.”

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Marty Jacobs
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 12th, 2022, 6:24 am

Thanks, Mark. Lessons In Conjuring is a favourite book of mine. I didn't know the name of the magician mentioned in this story.

I've published another post on scripting for magicians. This time, it's on the concept of theme:

Thematic Thinking

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Q. Kumber » November 12th, 2022, 9:05 am

Marty Jacobs wrote:
That David Devant quote is taken out of context. He was talking about knowing how a trick is done (the workings of the method) as opposed to knowing how to do it (perform it in an entertaining manner). And while David Devant had eight tricks in his repertoire for "some years", he did eventually expand it to include more.


David Britland published his research into the Devant quote here:
http://cardopolis.blogspot.com/2017/05/ ... ricks.html

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Marty Jacobs
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 12th, 2022, 11:01 am

Q. Kumber wrote:
Marty Jacobs wrote:
That David Devant quote is taken out of context. He was talking about knowing how a trick is done (the workings of the method) as opposed to knowing how to do it (perform it in an entertaining manner). And while David Devant had eight tricks in his repertoire for "some years", he did eventually expand it to include more.


David Britland published his research into the Devant quote here:
http://cardopolis.blogspot.com/2017/05/ ... ricks.html


Thanks for this, I'm a big fan of David Britland, so may well have read this before and forgotten about it!

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 29th, 2022, 7:58 am

Right, I've finally written up my third article on scriptwriting for magicians. It takes the ideas from the previous two posts and combines them. I've included three different ways to present Dai Vernon's "Twisting the Aces" and included my presentation plans for each trick.

I've also included my thinking behind some of the changes that I've made to the handling (although I'm not sharing my alterations at this stage).

Read Scriptwriting for Magicians: Twisting the Aces Three Ways

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 29th, 2022, 9:44 am

Marty, I've already had the pleasure of reading your third article in the series this morning. A great way to start the day and the wheels turning. Just a few comments:

First, I thought it was very apropos to reiterate the brilliant Tommy Wonder advice of spoon-feeding the audience a little bit of magic at a time, and to emphasize how important it is to apply that advice to this trick in particular. Your idea of the counter-clockwise twist to turn an ace back over is superb in that it applies the spoon-feeding principle in a way that greatly enhances clarity, and makes sense presentationally in that it is in keeping with the twisting theme.

Second, I think that providing several different presentations is a very good idea. Your 3 alternative presentations aptly illustrate how magicians can break out of the habit of rigidly following the patter and presentation as set forth in the original, develop a more flexible paradigm for a trick or routine and, importantly, bring his/her own creativity to bear. Then there is the added advantage of flexibility, so that one can adapt plot, theme and presentation to the particular audience and/or environment.

Third, and just to mention in passing, I have always done the Elmsley Count at the fingertips. There should not be any hard and fast rules on handling, except that it should be natural and deceptive, and this is what works well for me. With any move, each magician should experiment to find what works best for them -- and it may well end up going against the conventional "wisdom."

Fourth, and candidly, I'm not a fan of stating that the ace of spades is more difficult to control because it has more ink, and is thus heavier than the other aces. To me, it's neither plausible nor captivating, although if it's working for you, who am I to say? I would much prefer to say something alonng the lines of it being the most difficult to control because it is the most powerful card and thus has a big ego. I realize that this is not really plausible either and is quite far-fetched, but it gives the ace a human quality and a personality to which people can relate. I believe that it is more captivating and entertaining than talking about ink and weight. But of course that comes down to artistic choice.

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Marty Jacobs
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 29th, 2022, 12:55 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:Third, and just to mention in passing, I have always done the Elmsley Count at the fingertips. There should not be any hard and fast rules on handling, except that it should be natural and deceptive, and this is what works well for me. With any move, each magician should experiment to find what works best for them -- and it may well end up going against the conventional "wisdom."

Fourth, and candidly, I'm not a fan of stating that the ace of spades is more difficult to control because it has more ink, and is thus heavier than the other aces. To me, it's neither plausible nor captivating, although if it's working for you, who am I to say? I would much prefer to say something alonng the lines of it being the most difficult to control because it is the most powerful card and thus has a big ego. I realize that this is not really plausible either and is quite far-fetched, but it gives the ace a human quality and a personality to which people can relate. I believe that it is more captivating and entertaining than talking about ink and weight. But of course that comes down to artistic choice.


I understand that Dai Vernon preferred the fingertip-to-fingertip handling of the Elmsley Count because it looked fairer and conveyed the feeling that there was no way that manipulation of any kind was possible. Vernon learned of the fingertip handling from Jack Avis (who was doing the count with jumbo cards) and applied it to his routine. He had previously learned of the Ghost Count in the famous letter from Alex Elmsley.

I prefer to perform the count as Alex performed it: from a left-hand fingertip grip to a high right-hand mechanics grip. However, I think the fingertip approach can look great (Juan Tamaritz does it well in the video I included in my blog post). However, in my experience, many magicians butcher the count badly by using the fingertip grip exclusively. The original grip is much more forgiving.

I think that the original premise of "Twisting the Aces" is a little mediocre. But, for some reason, it works for me. Although I get far better reactions from the "Pasteboard Puppies" presentation.

You may well be right about the "more ink" line. I think I started using it when I learned "Weighted Aces" by Gregory Wilson, which uses it in a similar tongue-in-cheek way. I like the line about the ink because it is what my friend Doug Conn calls a "plausible presentation". Sure, most people will rightly understand that it is total nonsense. But the idea that something is more difficult to manipulate because it is heavier is grounded in reality. Performers like Pop Haydn also inform my approach. For this reason, I have a liking for the pseudo-scientific stuff. Although, I'll readily agree that this particular approach does not suit everyone. I think this quote from Pop Haydn sums up my thoughts nicely: "Any magician worth his salt should be able to tell a totally implausible lie to the spectators with a straight face, and then proceed to prove it with a twinkle in the eye."

Another approach that I think has merit is to use the Ace, Two, Three and Four of Spades. Have someone sign their name on the Four. It fails to twist for you because the signature has transferred some of the participant's personality to the card. When they twist the packet, it turns over. I believe that this is a Simon Lovell idea. This is similar to your "more powerful" approach.

Thanks for taking the time to read my blog; writing is much more enjoyable when you know people are actually reading what you write!

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 29th, 2022, 1:27 pm

Marty Jacobs wrote: Thanks for taking the time to read my blog; writing is much more enjoyable when you know people are actually reading what you write!


You're quite welcome. Very enjoyable to read these well-researched, carefully thought-out, and insightful pieces on your blog, as well. I believe that anyone who reads them thoughtfully and applies the plethora of good ideas in them to their own magic, is bound to improve as a performer. And no matter what level one is currently on, that's always a very good thing.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 29th, 2022, 6:45 pm

Marty Jacobs wrote:
Another approach that I think has merit is to use the Ace, Two, Three and Four of Spades. Have someone sign their name on the Four. It fails to twist for you because the signature has transferred some of the participant's personality to the card. When they twist the packet, it turns over. I believe that this is a Simon Lovell idea. This is similar to your "more powerful" approach.

Marty


I have rather liked the Ace, Two, Three, Four presentation which I vaguely remember (and may be wrong) is a Brother John Hamman idea. The advantage is that it is easier to follow and less confusing than using aces only. You hold the cards in Two, One, Four, Three order and follow the usual routine so they turn face up in numerical order. However, I would not have the Four signed which I consider an extremely daft idea. You ruin a card and slow up the presentation for no appreciable gain.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 30th, 2022, 9:22 am

I guess I'm about to commit magical sacrilege and may be condemned to magician's hell for this, but I always thought the traditional presentation of Twisting the Aces (Yes, Vernon's, and variants thereof) was about as interesting as watching paint dry for the audience. Even the ace, 2, 3, 4 variant Mark mentioned, while less confusing, lacks any real emotional hook, something Vernon, himself, was adamant must be present. But Marty's puppy presentation, which he sets forth in his blog, takes an otherwise blasé trick to an engaging and entertaining level.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 30th, 2022, 2:48 pm

I don't think you are committing sacrilege at all. I have never gotten much out of Twisting the Aces either except for a bit of reaction with the last Ace. I strongly suspect that if I put my mind to it and added a little touch here and there I could get more out of it but I can't be bothered.

As for the puppy thing I thought it was OK until I got to the dog poo bit. I am very much against vulgarity and bad taste in magic.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 30th, 2022, 5:21 pm

Tarotist wrote:I don't think you are committing sacrilege at all. I have never gotten much out of Twisting the Aces either except for a bit of reaction with the last Ace. I strongly suspect that if I put my mind to it and added a little touch here and there I could get more out of it but I can't be bothered.

As for the puppy thing I thought it was OK until I got to the dog poo bit. I am very much against vulgarity and bad taste in magic.


Oh gosh! I hadn't seen that part, as I did not read the puppy presentation all the way through. I was rather taken with the puppy idea, but that takes all the cuteness out of it. I completely agree with your feelings on this.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » November 30th, 2022, 6:52 pm

The bit with the fake dog poo is optional. If this kind of humour isn't to your liking, then I wouldn't recommend that you do it. I wouldn't do this regularly, but I think it would be funny for the right audience. In my defence, I have two young daughters who love toilet humour. They'd find this kind of thing hilarious.

I've been performing the "Pasteboard Puppies" presentation for a few years and have never used this joke; I included it in the blog post as another example of the benefit of writing a script (generating new ideas). Usually, I feign embarrassment that my dog isn't behaving, then perform the colour change as I shout "din-dins"; I recommend this approach if you want to keep things cute and non-offensive.

People seem to enjoy naming the four dogs, so if I have the time, I let them do this. In certain situations, I've even let people write the names of the dogs on the cards. However, this does slow things down, and I'd only do this if I intended to perform a trick like "The Travellers" that relies on the cards being signed.

I like the idea that signing a card transfers some of your personality to it. It reminds me of the cultural superstition held by Native Americans, who thought that taking a photograph stole a part of your soul. But, again, this idea isn't for everyone. I'm not usually a fan of having cards signed, but I have a short Ambitious Card routine that uses an Ace, Two, Three and Four that is more impressive if you finish with a signed card. I usually perform this after "Pasteboard Puppies".

Marty

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » November 30th, 2022, 9:56 pm

Oddly enough I was recently rereading a book by Marvin Kaye on magic. I don't particularly like the book or generally his advice. However, I was quite surprised to see that he voiced the same concerns I have about writing out a script and learning it by rote. The reason I was surprised is that he is one of those actor types who normally like that kind of thing. If I am ever in the mood I may type out his reasoning.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » December 1st, 2022, 9:27 am

I found an interesting article on scriptwriting by Jeff McBride yesterday:

Scriptwriting for Magicians by Jeff McBride

He makes a good argument in favour of scripting your magic tricks. Here's a couple of thought-provoking extracts:

"One of the questions that I get asked the most at our classes is “Is it better to script or just to talk naturally?” When I hear this question, I usually regard this as someone who is asking me to give them permission to be lazy."

"Unlike actors, magicians fear scripts, because they think they are too difficult to learn, so they settle for mediocrity and “just sort of having an outline.” This is the same as an actor walking out on stage and “just kind of knowing the outline” of a Shakespearean play…. A ridiculous cop-out."

While I'm sure this doesn't hold true for all magicians who don't write out a script, I can't help but feel a combination of laziness and fear is often the root cause of this reluctance.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » December 1st, 2022, 1:51 pm

That is no doubt why Jeff McBride had a brilliant silent act and a not so brilliant talking act.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » December 1st, 2022, 2:22 pm

Learning your patter by rote is a damn stupid idea and is the wrong way to go about things. Here is Marvin Kaye's take on the matter (and he was an actor who was presumably used to "scripts".)

"Many magic texts advise that all patter be written beforehand and be memorized beforehand like a part in a play. This approach is disastrous to spontaneous delivery; it yields wooden results. Writing out one's own patter beforehand and memorising it turns the performer into an automation. That method may provide a degree of confidence, but the benefit is more than offset by the loss of naturalness. A good magic performance is like a jazz session. It should be fluid, free form, adaptive to the exigencies of the moment. No show is alike, and unexpected things will happen. The magician who performs by rote will not be able to adapt to the unexpected, he will either be thrown off the track entirely or else proceed as if nothing had happened"

Nothing to do with being "lazy" as Jeff Mc'Bride states. You still have to rehearse and rehearse until you get it right. But you rehearse with your outline and your improvisational and creative ability too. After a while you will know what to say. You PREPARE for your show but you don't learn it by rote. Neither do you make things up as you go along. Patter happens to be a particularly strong part of my work but I do not learn it by rote and neither do I make it up as I go along. And horror of horrors I don't write anything down either. I get a rough idea what I am going to say and then I say it. After a few performances the patter is "set" and I don't have to worry about it any more.

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Marty Jacobs
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » December 2nd, 2022, 3:13 am

Thanks for taking the time to find and post that information, Mark.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that the approach you describes doesn't yield good results; I use this approach myself. However, I know from personal experience that learning my lines, like an actor would, makes my performance much better. So pretending it doesn't is simply delusional. And most Jazz musicians learn a piece of music by rote before they begin improvising.

While there is some wisdom in what Marvin Kayne suggests, he's ignoring that what he's describing is a form of acting that usually relies on a script. The director encourages actors to "go off book" (ad-lib). You can't go "off book" if there is no book!

I'll concede that some magicians are bad actors, and if they use a script, it might cause problems. However, in my experience, a magician who is a lousy actor is also a lousy magician in a more general sense; there are usually more fundamental issues with the way they perform.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » December 2nd, 2022, 11:18 am

All I know is that every time I see an actor/magician they sound overloud and artificial. I would even venture to say that if you are a trained actor it is detrimental to your work rather than beneficial. A magician SHOULD be an actor but not a TRAINED actor! I am not against "learning your lines" ------I am against the method of doing so. Learning by rote is an awful way to go. You should sound like a human being, albeit an amusing one, rather than a rehearsed robotic actor. As for the tosh of "going off script" I am well aware of it. However, that is not an easy thing to do if you have learned your "script" (what an awful word) by rote. Ten to one you will forget what you are supposed to be saying anyway and trying to remember it makes you sound like a robot.

Anyway, this might interest you. It is a method of scripting that may well appeal to you. I have never used it but it sounds eminently sensible procedure for all the daft people that want to learn things off by heart. It comes from the presentation section of Expert Card Technique which I regard as the best presentational advice on magic ever written. I have never used this procedure myself since I am a unique human being but this is what you do. You DO write out and learn whatever guff you deem appropriate for the trick. You learn it thoroughly by rote. Once you have trained yourself to be a robot you put the script aside for a couple of days and forget it. When you return to it in a few days you recite the entire stuff again but this time the robotic influence will be gone because your words will be different and you won't be saying the same thing but still conveying the same thoughts.

While I am at it I might as well give you another method of remembering your chatter if you insist on this daft method of memorising by rote. I have no idea if it works or not and I cannot remember where I read it. The theory is that you read it out loud just before you go to sleep and your subconscious mind will deal with the matter while you are asleep and when you awaken you will be able to remember the script a lot easier. I won't be doing this since my subconscious mind has better things to do but you may find it useful.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 2nd, 2022, 11:23 am

There is no "one size fits all" here. Some people need to script their patter, others do not. It depends entirely upon the individual.
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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 2nd, 2022, 1:12 pm

While one size does not fit all, I believe there is one guiding star for all magicians to follow as far as presentation, and that is being creative, original, and natural. Oops, I guess that's three guiding stars (although creativity and originality are closely related). In other words, come up with something that is uniquely you and deliver it in a way that fits your natural personality. Meaning don't imitate the mannerisms and presentations of other magicians, or what's in the book or on the video. As the saying goes, don't be a second rate copy of someone else, but a first-rate version of yourself. Also, descriptive/explanatory patter, simply narrating what you're obviously doing, is boring, and can even be insulting to the intelligence of the audience.

I believe that magic is fresher and a lot more fun when we make up our own patter, or script, or whatever you want to call it. We all possess creativity, but, because we are all different, it will be expressed in different ways. If we challenge ourselves to come up with something completely unique for a routine, we may surprise ourselves with the result. I am not trying to preach here, but telling this to myself as much as anyone. It's easy to fall into the trap of just following familiar habits, and the way "we've always done it." There's nothing wrong with the way we've always done it, if it's really good in the first place, but looking at ourselves with a constructively critical eye is important. When we ask for and receive the opinions of those close to us (e.g. spouses, parents, kids, friends, siblings), that can be surprisingly helpful, too. I have also found that videotaping myself with my phone is quite revealing, and is a very helpful way to improve, both as far as the moves and subtleties, and the presentation. Magic can be such a delightful and exciting journey - both for ourselves and for the audience. But it's up to us to make it that way.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » December 2nd, 2022, 9:32 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:There is no "one size fits all" here. Some people need to script their patter, others do not. It depends entirely upon the individual.


I agree with this. The good magicians don't need to script their patter but lesser lights do. Wilfrid Jonson made the same point in a more polite way in "Mr. Smith's Guide to Sleight of Hand"

Actually to be serious ALL MAGICIANS need to script their patter. However, they should NOT learn it by rote!

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » December 4th, 2022, 5:51 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:There is no "one size fits all" here. Some people need to script their patter, others do not. It depends entirely upon the individual.


Well said, Richard. However, I do think we should encourage beginners to script their magic rather than just telling them to have something interesting to say.

Mark, there's nothing wrong with memorising a script. What you seem to be against is the robotic, verbatim delivery of the script during a live performance. I don't think the former necessarily leads to the latter.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » December 4th, 2022, 8:14 pm

I think the former DOES lead to the latter! Still, even if it doesn't I find most "scripts" bloody awful anyway. They are either boring or long winded or more likely both! Fully 75% of so called "magicians" fail in their magic because of their mediocre patter.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Marty Jacobs » December 5th, 2022, 6:12 am

Tarotist wrote:Fully 75% of so called "magicians" fail in their magic because of their mediocre patter.


Something we can agree on! ;) However, I think this is because most magicians don't spend enough time planning what they're going to say. For me, at least, writing a script forces me to do this. So I see it as part of the solution, rather than the problem.

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Tarotist » December 5th, 2022, 8:55 am

Oh, do it any way you like........................

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Re: Scriptwriting for Magicians

Postby Leo Garet » December 5th, 2022, 10:57 am

Tarotist wrote:Oh, do it any way you like........................


Works for me. ;)


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