Scriptwriting for Magicians

[Jonathan Townsend]

...but the method of remembering is what I take issue with. In other words learning it off by heart like a bloody robot. ...

Agreed. Kind of like driving a car. You do it but not mindlessly.

[Michael Rubinstein]

Disagree. When you memorize your script you are also memorizing your inflections, pauses, hand and facial movments. Far from being robotic.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Disagree. When you memorize your script you are also memorizing your inflections, pauses, hand and facial movments. Far from being robotic.

That description did not include audience dynamic work such as finding the people to play off. Reads as recital rather than audience centered.

Without audience engagement and rapport ( realtime human feedback ) it’s as if playing to a camera.

In the car driving analogy; the performer is driving the audience along a tour with some magic. The mechanics of the car and driving are secondary to the activity of taking the audience on the drive.

[Tarotist]

Well, guess I am uninspiring.

Don't worry old chap. I am here to inspire and educate you at the same time. The first thing I shall do is to do some research on you and figure out how uninspiring you really are and then report back. Of course you may be underestimating yourself and you are more inspiring than you give yourself credit for. If so I will try to build your confidence and help you in your future efforts.

[Tarotist]

Disagree. When you memorize your script you are also memorizing your inflections, pauses, hand and facial movments. Far from being robotic.

Oh dear! That sounds perfectly dreadful! I have enough trouble worrying about what my tongue is doing than also having to worry about my inflections, pauses, hand and facial movements are doing! With all due respect that sounds like actor's talk and anything to do with combining actor's techniques with magic is always a bad sign and always reminds me of that dreadful book by Henning Nelms.

I shall let my hands and face do what it needs to do without my help thank you.

[Michael Rubinstein]

Well, guess I am uninspiring.

Don't worry old chap. I am here to inspire and educate you at the same time. The first thing I shall do is to do some research on you and figure out how uninspiring you really are and then report back. Of course you may be underestimating yourself and you are more inspiring than you give yourself credit for. If so I will try to build your confidence and help you in your future efforts.

Oh dear! First I get a sarcastic magician with a vegetable for a name, and now I get the great all knowing Oz! How freakin' condescending can you be "Old Chap"! Tell me, does your ego fit into your house or did you need to build an extension? This is the Genii Forum with an exchange of ideas, not the Tarotist Forum where it's your way or the highway. Yeesh! I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with you, maybe you should do the same. What works for you is fine, I am happy with what works for me.

[Michael Rubinstein]

Disagree. When you memorize your script you are also memorizing your inflections, pauses, hand and facial movments. Far from being robotic.

That description did not include audience dynamic work such as finding the people to play off. Reads as recital rather than audience centered.

Without audience engagement and rapport ( realtime human feedback ) it’s as if playing to a camera.

In the car driving analogy; the performer is driving the audience along a tour with some magic. The mechanics of the car and driving are secondary to the activity of taking the audience on the drive.

Jon, the routine has to be pretty much worked out before you start showing it to your audience. So you have to get to the point that you have the confidence to perform it without failure. Once you begin performing, much like taking a show on the road before opening on Broadway, you can tweak it. But the hard work of crafting the performance from your script and magic has to already be done.

[Tarotist]

Well, guess I am uninspiring.

Don't worry old chap. I am here to inspire and educate you at the same time. The first thing I shall do is to do some research on you and figure out how uninspiring you really are and then report back. Of course you may be underestimating yourself and you are more inspiring than you give yourself credit for. If so I will try to build your confidence and help you in your future efforts.

Oh dear! First I get a sarcastic magician with a vegetable for a name, and now I get the great all knowing Oz! How freakin' condescending can you be "Old Chap"! Tell me, does your ego fit into your house or did you need to build an extension? This is the Genii Forum with an exchange of ideas, not the Tarotist Forum where it's your way or the highway. Yeesh! I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with you, maybe you should do the same. What works for you is fine, I am happy with what works for me.

Actually the first sarcastic remark, although not by me, was actually a compliment! Still, I have no particular desire to defend Irish cucumbers so I will address the second remark. It is indeed true that I am all knowing although I don't know where the Oz comes in because I am not one of those ghastly Australian personages that one sometimes comes across on magic forums. With regards to my ego all I can say to that is that everyone is entitled to have a favourite magician. Mine just happens to be me............

Anyway, I did check you out to find out whether your confession of being uninspiring had any validity to it. I watched a few of your videos and I venture to say that you are not quite as uninspiring as I expected but of course you still have a little way to go and I will be delighted to assist you with it. You appear to be a cheerful chap on the videos who makes jokes some of which get the odd smile or two. I wasn't really watching your coin technique but I get a psychic vibe it was pretty good. With regard to your "scripting" there was perhaps a little too much verbosity especially at the beginning of each trick but then you are American so that is to be expected. I would however, seriously advise you to avoid chattering too much before a trick starts. This is an awful flaw in the work of many magicians even well known ones. You need to get started with the trick WITHIN SECONDS instead of going on a long preamble.

You come across as a friendly chap on the videos and that is all to the good. I bet your patients like you. If I were a cat or a dog I would be quite taken with your bedside manner

[Marty Jacobs]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for joining the discussion. I'm a big fan of your coin work.

I think you've mentioned the main reason why I've decided to script all my magic and memorise my scripts. As an occasional performer, the process gives me the confidence to perform my magic in front of real people. I know, from experience, that this approach works for me.

Jonathan, you mentioned recitals in a negative sense. I don't think recitals have to be boring. I'm a massive fan of performance poetry and think it is a great art form to mix with magic. Poets Roger McGough, Michael Rosen and the punk poet legend John Cooper Clarke are firm favourites. I defy anyone to listen to them perform one of their poems and not be entertained.

Sometimes they memorise the poems. Other times they read them as they perform. Maybe a magician could get away with doing the same thing?

Marty

[Michael Rubinstein]

Thank you Marty.
Tarotist, I see you took my comments to heart. Sigh. Best to you.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Agreed about practice of the sleights and mechanics. And agreed about rehearsal of the routine so it's almost second nature. Still need to do the work to learn how to be a performer and find out what works for your audiences; to engage them into the show and lead them where you want the show to go. Then there's all that "outs, precautions, challenges..." stuff we hear about. Workers tell us online about how they always carry an invisible deck or the magician's insurance policy.

Sticking with the car driving analogy. Take the written test. Take the driving test. Maybe practice driving on some safe quiet areas. But that's not enough to drive around a busy city with its traffic patterns, much less take people for drives in that area.

We're avoiding the importance of learning from audience feedback. Remember Henning Nelms? Or how about what happened when magicians tried to produce "The Coming Race" as a play with special effects? Technically sensible but audiences stayed away. Maybe Derek Delgadio could discuss how he designed his show. Or Andy Nyman about the Derren Brown shows. Maybe Pat Cook or Dawin Ortiz would care to discuss what needed to be added and refined as they put together their "All of the People" show. Ricky Jay had David Mamet helping with show design and direction.

TL;DR get a director. They can point out the places where audience attention wanders, or things don't look right, or lines don't come across as expected... Ask a director about working with actors who don't learn lines or don't take notes.

Exit, pursued by a bear. ( dinner time )

[Jonathan Townsend]

@Marty, Mike et al,
Here’s an example of where audience rapport and scripting offer something special;
https://youtu.be/ThETDZtOk9s

Those shifts from script into personal made the show special. Especially the big shift at about 8 mins in. Enjoy

[Joe Lyons]

1) Learn the patter provided by rote. Some of these magician's are really intelligent and they chose that diction and those pauses for a reason.

2) Perform it and note or have a friend take notes on the bits that move the spectator(s).

3) Rewrite it in your own words and repeat, editing it with audience reaction you've received in mind.

4) Perform it with the script as only an outline, be present with the audience, the memorization will give you the confidence to interact well. You are a live entertainer, not an actor in a film.

This book got the highest recommendation from a GENII review in July.

[BarryAllen]

As I've probably said earlier (I can't be bothered reading back over the pages), the idea of learning and reciting patter; or indeed that ridiculously poncey word 'script'; just leaves me absolutely cold.

If I'm getting it right here, some people are saying that, word for word (or as near as makes no difference), you learn the patter that you are going to use for EACH trick that you perform? Seriously?

If that's your thing then whatever - go for it.

However, you'd better never work for an audience in England - because you'll get absolutely torn to shreds.

Trust me on this - performing in an English pub, party, wedding, Working-Man's Club, etc. these days, is just a tad different to doing a spot at The Magic Castle.

My mind goes back to my good friend, Joe Riding. Working a contract for Bass Breweries in the Mid-90s, he did an opening night at a pub in Liverpool. Before he'd even started, a guy came up to him at the bar and asked "are you the Magician"? Joe said "yes why"? The guy replied "well F*** off and vanish then".

Now I'm not for one moment saying you'll get that level of hostility at every gig. However, if you don't stamp your authority pretty damn quickly, then you may as well give up before you start.

Having worked professionally as both a stand-up Comedian and a Magician over many years, I can categorically assure you that learning patter, word for word, is absolute codswallop this side of the pond. They'd literally eat you alive if you couldnt ad-lib.

Despite stereotypical ideas of the English, people don't these days all speak the Queen's (whooooops) King's English, drink tea at 3pm and politely queue up - far from it actually. A lot of people in this day and age appear to have been dragged from the gutter.

Sad........but unfortunately true.

[Tarotist]

We British are indeed an awful people especially the working classes who would not be welcome in the best country homes. That is why even the poshest of us are dreadfully rude and sarcastic. I am quite sure the incident that happened to Joe Riding has happened to every British magician sooner or later. Some of the most awful drunken audiences I have encountered have been in the UK. Oddly enough just next door in Ireland where they drink even more than the British for some reason even the drunks manage to be polite. In Canada people drunkenness is not the norm and in fact the populace would be quite horrified at the very sight of inebriation. In fact Canadian audiences are the best audiences you can have and they quite appreciate mediocrity that would be booed off the stage in Her (sorry--His) Majesty's Realm of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. (Oh perhaps not the Northern Ireland bit).

I know an audience of magicians is not quite the same thing but I have seen quite a few renowned American magicians die a complete death
at British magic conventions. A cultural thing no doubt.

One thing I have noticed and am really sure of. In the UK magicians can't chatter interminably before a trick starts in the same way American magicians seem to do as I have already pointed out. We get on with things within seconds of coming out on stage. At least the good magicians do anyway.

With regard to Barry's statement about ad libbing I expect the defence will be that you can veer off script to ad lib when necessary. I suppose it might be possible but I have my doubts the reason being that the sort of people who learn things off by heart are not the sort of people that can ad lib or veer off script effectively anyway.

[Michael Rubinstein]

As I've probably said earlier (I can't be bothered reading back over the pages), the idea of learning and reciting patter; or indeed that ridiculously poncey word 'script'; just leaves me absolutely cold.

If I'm getting it right here, some people are saying that, word for word (or as near as makes no difference), you learn the patter that you are going to use for EACH trick that you perform? Seriously?

If that's your thing then whatever - go for it.

However, you'd better never work for an audience in England - because you'll get absolutely torn to shreds.

Trust me on this - performing in an English pub, party, wedding, Working-Man's Club, etc. these days, is just a tad different to doing a spot at The Magic Castle.

My mind goes back to my good friend, Joe Riding. Working a contract for Bass Breweries in the Mid-90s, he did an opening night at a pub in Liverpool. Before he'd even started, a guy came up to him at the bar and asked "are you the Magician"? Joe said "yes why"? The guy replied "well F*** off and vanish then".

Now I'm not for one moment saying you'll get that level of hostility at every gig. However, if you don't stamp your authority pretty damn quickly, then you may as well give up before you start.

Having worked professionally as both a stand-up Comedian and a Magician over many years, I can categorically assure you that learning patter, word for word, is absolute codswallop this side of the pond. They'd literally eat you alive if you couldnt ad-lib.

Despite stereotypical ideas of the English, people don't these days all speak the Queen's (whooooops) King's English, drink tea at 3pm and politely queue up - far from it actually. A lot of people in this day and age appear to have been dragged from the gutter.

Sad........but unfortunately true.

I think you totally misunderstood my point. I explained my way of memorizing my script until I am comfortable enough that I don't have to think about it and can concentrate on my performance. HOWEVER, being that comfortable I can certainly ad lib and play to my audience as needed, yet be able to go right back into what I was saying or doing. It is called being prepared. One thing I will NOT do is practice in front of my audience, so you will never find me just winging it (maybe in my youth, but you learn from your mistakes). Maybe that is not how you work, and we certainly know how the other guy thinks, but I am happy with the way my practice and rehearing has developed over the many years of performing. And don't believe for a second that pub behavior in the UK is any different than bar or walk around behavior in the USA. And yes, shows at the Castle (or on TV) ARE different , and you prepare as needed for the gig you do.

[Tarotist]

And don't believe for a second that pub behavior in the UK is any different than bar or walk around behavior in the USA. And yes, shows at the Castle (or on TV) ARE different , and you prepare as needed for the gig you do.

Oh, but it's not just pub behavior. It is EVERYWHERE behavior in the UK! Still, I think you might survive since you are used to dealing with animals!

[Michael Rubinstein]

And don't believe for a second that pub behavior in the UK is any different than bar or walk around behavior in the USA. And yes, shows at the Castle (or on TV) ARE different , and you prepare as needed for the gig you do.

Oh, but it's not just pub behavior. It is EVERYWHERE behavior in the UK! Still, I think you might survive since you are used to dealing with animals!

And there you are again. Sorry, not wasting my time with your passive aggressive bs tonight.

[Tarotist]

Sensitive chap, isn't he? On second thoughts I am not sure he would survive in the UK after all!

[Leo Garet]

Sensitive chap, isn't he? On second thoughts I am not sure he would survive in the UK after all!

Getting near to time for the Mods to step in?

Mister Lewis: In general I find you to be a sometimes entertaining chap, but you will keep banging on about the UK as if you know it intimately. You don't.

[Jonathan Townsend]

If you're interested in doing more than saying 'something' as you do your tricks - consider the basics of:
1) Accounting for the magic; i. e. what does it cost you/the world to make the magic happen?
2) Where did this phenomenon you are demonstrating come from? What is the backstory?

Not that your audiences want the entire history of playing cards or coins before you reveal the magical effect has occurred - but you might want some kind of backstory to frame the performance. This brings us to fiction, the basic premise behind the magic and the narrative which accompanies the magical thinking. But how to contrive such a magical backstory for your tricks? Well here's some discussion of how to connect the dots in fiction which obviously applies to magic in performance. Notice there are folks discussing the matter from the USA and UK. Also if you are tempted to post on the linked discussion be aware you are addressing passionate writers and readers who very much enjoy good stories. Here goes:

https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-s ... l#comments

Enjoy

[Marty Jacobs]

We all understand that you must alter your approach depending on your audience and performance venue. For example, I've never performed magic in a working man's club (or a pub, for that matter). I'm also yet to perform at the Magic Castle! If I did perform at any of these venues, I'd modify my usual approach to suit the environment and expected audience.

However, I always do my best to avoid performing for anyone who's had too much to drink (or is rude to me). Life is too short. Now, if I was a professional, I might not be able to afford this luxury. I perform primarily for work colleagues and students at a university campus. In this situation, tightly scripting my magic results in much better performances. If I started cracking the kind of jokes that would work well down the pub, I'd get in a whole heap of trouble!

I always admired Paul Daniels because he started his career in the challenging working men's clubs of the North of England. But he was smart enough to modify (soften) his delivery when he later performed on the BBC.

I also think it is possible to memorise your script and have the ability to ad-lib. The two things are not mutually exclusive, hence my attraction to the Rivers and Lakes model.

Marty

[Tarotist]

Sensitive chap, isn't he? On second thoughts I am not sure he would survive in the UK after all!

Getting near to time for the Mods to step in?

Mister Lewis: In general I find you to be a sometimes entertaining chap, but you will keep banging on about the UK as if you know it intimately. You don't.

Of course I know it intimately! I have lived there most of my life!

[Tarotist]

I always admired Paul Daniels because he started his career in the challenging working men's clubs of the North of England. But he was smart enough to modify (soften) his delivery when he later performed on the BBC.
Marty

He didn't soften it up as much as he could have done! He still got into trouble on occasion. Load of people loved him and loads of people hated him! The TV Times once did a survey of who were the most popular TV personalities in Britain and who were the most unpopular. Paul was on both lists!

Incidentally I don't believe for one minute he learned his patter off by heart especially on television where new tricks had to be performed nearly every week.

Again, in case I am misunderstood, I am not against memorising your patter. I memorize mine. You have to know what to say. I am against the METHOD of memorising it. In other words learning it off by heart. It is a laborious and unnecessary method and has a tendency to become robotic when delivered. Not the word "tendency"---it doesn't always happen but there is a DANGER of it happening.

[MagicbyAlfred]

We all understand that you must alter your approach depending on your audience and performance venue. For example, I've never performed magic in a working man's club (or a pub, for that matter). I'm also yet to perform at the Magic Castle! If I did perform at any of these venues, I'd modify my usual approach to suit the environment and expected audience...

Me at upscale special event: "Ladies and gentlemen, it's truly an honor to perform for you tonight."

Me at workingman's club or pub: "Go ahead, make my day."

[Leo Garet]

Of course I know it intimately! I have lived there most of my life!

Me too.

[Tarotist]

Indeed. You have my deepest sympathy.

[Richard Kaufman]

Some performers have the acting ability to deliver memorized patter in an interesting and exciting way. But most performers do not have this ability. They sound robotic or like an announcer on the radio reading from cue cards.

[Marty Jacobs]

Incidentally I don't believe for one minute he learned his patter off by heart especially on television where new tricks had to be performed nearly every week.

Neither do I. But he probably used a script with a teleprompter when performing in a TV studio.

Marty

[Q. Kumber]

.

But he probably used a script with a teleprompter when performing in a TV studio.

Marty

Paul Daniels never used a teleprompter.

[Marty Jacobs]

Paul Daniels never used a teleprompter.

That's very interesting. Given that teleprompters have been around since the 1950s, I assumed most people, including Paul Daniels, would have used them by the 1980s.

[Tarotist]

I agree with Quentin. Paul Daniels would not be the teleprompter type. Even if they asked him to use one I can see him resisting the request. Of course before Paul came along David Nixon was the main man on British TV. I just couldn't see that natural charm and friendly manner working with a teleprompter. That stuff is for politicians making speeches or for the Queen (now the King) making Christmas greetings on television. I doubt any entertainer has ever been asked to use one, especially when half the time they aren't even looking at the camera anyway.

[Jonathan Townsend]

So, here’s an effect. And some audience feedback. How would you present it?

https://fb.watch/hUKMQ37bus/?mibextid=v7YzmG

[BarryAllen]

So, here’s an effect. And some audience feedback. How would you present it?

https://fb.watch/hUKMQ37bus/?mibextid=v7YzmG

To be perfectly honest Jonathan, that is the last type of effect that I'd ever want to present to an audience, at a paid show.

It's very clever - but it's a puzzle.

Moreover, its one of those effects whereby I would imagine the vast majority of people know what is going to happen anyway long before the finale - so there's an absolutely limited element of surprise.

It is presented clearly on that clip - for the type of medium being used. However, what the (Covid?) Toy had to do with it, God only knows. If you were presenting this at a live performance, by the time you'd put the pieces together, people would have switched off; be talking to each other; looking at their phones; or going outside for a cigarette. Most people in England have the attention span of a gnat (and about as much commonsense as one) - which is why you have to hit them hard and hit them quickly.

Moreover, I firmly believe that Close-up Magic requires a high degree of audience engagement - or it potentially becomes a "look how clever I am" type of performance. A great way of alienating people is to have a "look what I can do but you can't" attitude. You have to use effects that 'take them along for the ride' with you. That's my way of thinking anyway.

To this end, if I wanted to do a rope penetration type of effect, then I believe there'd be much greater mileage from a borrowed ring on shoelace routine (the best of which I believe is Diamond Jim Tyler's routine, that I only just recently read within his superb book - Close-up Magic Secrets). It's fast moving, has various phases and uses a borrowed item - and you are engaging the spectators throughout.

Actually, to bring the thread back on track, that is possibly a useful routine to reference. Because there are various stages, you may wish to omit something, given the working conditions. If your patter was rehearsed, then how would this fit? You'd potentially have to think which elements of patter to leave out; possibly then overlooking audience comments that are fired at you throughout (as inevitably they are during a performance of such a strong piece of Magic)?

To this end, I believe that for me personally, rather than being an enabler, rehearsed patter would take me completely off-piste. I wouldn't feel comfortable - and there's of course every likelihood that would inevitably show.

As I said before mate, if rehearsing patter works for you, then go for it. There is nothing in tablets of stone from the Magic Gods which say this has to be, or doesn't have to be, done. It's what works for the individual at the end of the day.

[Marty Jacobs]

It's a very impressive and beautifully crafted magic puzzle (a Magic Wagon product based on a Jack Hughes trick). With such a direct effect, I think this kind of trick needs minimal verbal presentation. I'd probably present it as an illusion in miniature and suggest that it is made from some rare wood with strange molecular properties. I think this would work in a formal parlour show, but I agree with Barry that this isn't the trick for a more casual close-up setting (I also believe there are angle issues with the method).

Slowly showing everyone the props so that the initial state is clear is important, which, to Rick Lax's credit, he does well in that video. But the rest of his presentation is dull as dishwater. I was waiting for the moment when the relevance of the coronavirus-shaped sculpture became apparent, and it never happened.

Marty

[Tarotist]

So, here’s an effect. And some audience feedback. How would you present it?

https://fb.watch/hUKMQ37bus/?mibextid=v7YzmG

I wouldn't.

[Tarotist]

Anyway the best advice I have ever read on patter is contained in a hard to obtain book by Wilfrid Jonson entitled "Mr Smith's Guide to Sleight of Hand". In fact I think this is one of my favourite books. If you own or somehow get old of this little book turn to page 35 and read the last paragraph. It contains all you need to know about "scripting".

[Dave Le Fevre]

that is the last type of effect that I'd ever want to present to an audience, at a paid show.

It's very clever - but it's a puzzle.

That was exactly my reaction.

That sort of effect could be categorised as I know how it works and you don't, I can do it and you can't.

It's a struggle to turn it into something that entertains, instead of being a mere puzzle.

[Marty Jacobs]

that is the last type of effect that I'd ever want to present to an audience, at a paid show.

It's very clever - but it's a puzzle.

That was exactly my reaction.

That sort of effect could be categorised as I know how it works and you don't, I can do it and you can't.

It's a struggle to turn it into something that entertains, instead of being a mere puzzle.

I've always struggled with this argument. Every magic trick is a puzzle at its core, although you don't have to present it as such. And not every trick you perform needs to be astonishing. After all, people do enjoy puzzles.

Anyway, while this trick looks like a puzzle (because the cube, stand, and rope combination), I'd argue the effect is strong and the method very deceptive. You could even present it as a puzzle, which you solve with the aid of magic.

Marty

[MagicbyAlfred]

...Anyway, while this trick looks like a puzzle (because the cube, stand, and rope combination), I'd argue the effect is strong and the method very deceptive. You could even present it as a puzzle, which you solve with the aid of magic.

IMHO, there are a number of problems with this trick, including, but not necessarily limited to:

1. It takes 4 minutes to get to the pay-off, to the one and only effect. So the entire routine is essentially dead time, with no entertainment whatsoever going on. I suppose you could, as Marty suggests, say that “it is made from some rare wood with strange molecular properties.” But what do you say after that? “Now just wait another 3 minutes and 45 seconds and you will see what I mean.”

2. It is hard to imagine anything that looks more like a gimmicked contraption. People will (correctly) believe that the effect was accomplished entirely by the trick apparatus, rather than any skill on the part of the magician.

3. The apparatus being employed bears no semblance to anything people have seen, heard of, or are otherwise familiar with.

4. At its core, it’s a penetration effect. Laymen will be far more impressed if you penetrate a quarter you’ve “borrowed” from them with a cigarette or pencil, which can be accomplished in a minute or less, leaving lots of time for more magic and, hopefully, entertainment.