Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

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Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 2nd, 2020, 9:51 pm

JustinM wrote:...One tip from Steve changed my whole approach to a simple technique ...
What specifically did you decide to change about that one technique?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby JustinM » March 3rd, 2020, 7:21 am

without exposing.... I'd say timing and placement changed everything. It's a technique that i've seen guys like ricky jay perform and it always stood out as "something that must be able to be performed better".. It's also taught in some of the Vernon books..

I'm a student of Vernon and love Ricky, but can also acknowledge superior technique and thinking when i come across it.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby JustinM » March 3rd, 2020, 7:28 am

He's also addressed and fixed a couple of other techniques performed by card magicians that i always hated because i felt their deceptiveness was lacking. See you guys in the 21st century. Thanks 40!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 3rd, 2020, 10:31 am

JustinM wrote:He's also addressed and fixed a couple of other techniques performed by card magicians that i always hated because i felt their deceptiveness was lacking. See you guys in the 21st century.
The Ancient Mariner's Rime was criticized in its time. As was A. Pope's advice on springs.
We have concise language for placement and action, down to the anatomical. We know how to record video clips with cell phones. We can meet somewhere between "#ReadPage102;3.2" and "lead the deal with your eyes". :)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby webbmaster » March 3rd, 2020, 1:33 pm

Wilbur Edgerton Sanders, rearranged becomes Sanders, Wilbur Edgerton, our SWE that we see so often in THE book. And this backwards is Srednas Rubliw Notregde ! Plus the (!) symbol in some of his other writings (who else did that ?) not to mention being a miner and Erdnase being German for dirt-nose. Finally the shopping list for cards to take on a vacation trip, putting cards in his hands.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Brad Jeffers » March 3rd, 2020, 5:13 pm

PapaG wrote:I see from my new arrivals that Steve must have finally baulked at the idea of signing two thousand books.

Yes, I just received my books and see that in lieu of the promised signature there is an enclosed playing card signed "Thank You! Steve Forte".

I'm feeling a little bit gypped, but I'll get over it.

I understand.

It's a lot of work, signing $600,000 worth of books. Why would anyone want to do that.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby AJM » March 3rd, 2020, 5:16 pm

Mr Forte kindly signed both volumes as requested and also enclosed a signed playing card.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » March 3rd, 2020, 5:24 pm

Thanks Andrew.
Now I'm really feeling gypped :(

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Brad Jeffers » March 3rd, 2020, 5:33 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:And the second printing is now available to order!

So what's the over/under on how many days until this batch sells out?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » March 3rd, 2020, 6:32 pm

Brad Jeffers wrote:Thanks Andrew.
Now I'm really feeling gypped :(

Yes, he signed both of mine too, I’m sure it was just an oversight that he would correct given the chance.
Brad Jeffers wrote:So what's the over/under on how many days until this batch sells out?

I tend to agree with what you said earlier:
Brad Jeffers wrote:Now the second run of 1000 might be a different story. It's here where your concerns expressed in the above quote might come into play. Who knows, they might also sell out in six days - but I doubt it.
I would think that most anyone who wanted to purchase a copy has already done so.


But I’d be happy to see another six day run out.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby richardingram » March 3rd, 2020, 7:55 pm

Brad Jeffers wrote:Thanks Andrew.
Now I'm really feeling gypped :(


I got no playing card and no signature on either book, so you’re less disadvantaged than some. ;)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 4th, 2020, 12:33 pm

Richard, did you request a signed book? Either way, if you write to Steve and ask for a signed playing card, I'm sure that as a customer who purchased the book he would be happy to oblige.

The second 1000 books will take between 6 months and a year to sell. Just my guess. I will acknowledge in advance that I am likely to be wrong.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby erdnasephile » March 4th, 2020, 12:50 pm

The reason for some requested autographs/inscriptions not being present is addressed here:

https://www.gamblingsleightofhand.com/b ... e-tomorrow

It was explained to me that if the autograph request was not present then the "checkout" button is clicked, the request did not go through. This can happen if a buyer puts in the request, then goes out of checkout to view another page, then goes back to checkout and pays. The previously entered request will not be transmitted in that scenario.

I would respectfully echo what Richard said. Mr. Forte is gracious to respond to email and is willing to discuss with you the best way to deal with your particular situation.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jason England » March 6th, 2020, 12:46 am

To those who requested a signature from Steve and didn't get one: he and I had a 20 minute conversation about this today. He did everything in his power to sign any book where the Shopify/Paypal system had logged a request to do so. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 of 1000 (roughly) copies sold.

But...for some reason many book-signing requests slipped through the cracks. As a guy who used to own 3,000 books on gambling (many of them signed to him by the authors), he's sensitive to this issue and is trying to respond to anyone who emails him about it and provide some sort of resolution.

If you're really bummed about the lack of a signature (and to be honest, I would be, if I were in your shoes), then by all means reach out to him on the website and see what can be done about it.

Jason

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » March 6th, 2020, 6:14 am

I tell you what I do if people want me to sign one of my books. I am not able to sign my "The Lives of a Showman" since they are shipped direct from the publisher/printer to the customer. I never even see the books. So what do I do? I send them a large gummed label with my autograph and any message they want by mail and they can stick it inside the book. It works quite well. They have to ask for it though and I hope they don't because it is a bloody nuisance and costs me another stamp.

For my other books such as "The Long and The Short of It" and "Marmaduke the Wonder Mouse" they are printed locally so I am able to autograph them when they go out and I do that automatically. I haven't quite figured out how to autograph my e-books such as my Annotated Royal Road to Card Magic or my Wit and Wisdom book but I am working on it. With regard to the latter book a hard copy of it should be arriving any day soon so I shall sign that one to myself and gaze in great admiration at it.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Christopher1979 » March 6th, 2020, 9:20 am

JustinM wrote:without exposing.... I'd say timing and placement changed everything. It's a technique that i've seen guys like ricky jay perform and it always stood out as "something that must be able to be performed better".. It's also taught in some of the Vernon books..

I'm a student of Vernon and love Ricky, but can also acknowledge superior technique and thinking when i come across it.


I have a feeling I know what technique you are referring to. If I am correct, I always thought Ricky Jay's handling looked slightly "weak"

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 6th, 2020, 10:39 am

Would saying which particular technique Steve has improved upon be considered "exposing"?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 6th, 2020, 10:44 am

erdnasephile wrote:It was explained to me that if the autograph request was not present then the "checkout" button is clicked, the request did not go through. This can happen if a buyer puts in the request, then goes out of checkout to view another page, then goes back to checkout and pays. The previously entered request will not be transmitted in that scenario.


This is what happened to me -- but I realized after the order had been placed that it didn't include the signature request, so I immediately emailed Steve (or his wife?) and asked for an inscription. And when it arrived, it was signed. They are trying to do right by customers.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » March 6th, 2020, 11:42 am

Bill Mullins wrote:-- but I realized after the order had been placed that it didn't include the signature request, so I immediately emailed Steve (or his wife?) and asked for an inscription. And when it arrived, it was signed.

My experience exactly. Great customer service.

This, btw, is why I suggested we keep the Steve Forte book thread open and only post his thoughts about Erdnase here.
The last 15 posts have nothing to do with Erdnase.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » March 6th, 2020, 12:36 pm

I don't know about that. I consider it quite relevant that Erdnase didn't autograph a single book. On the other hand if by chance he ever did and one of them were to show up his handwriting might give a clue to his identity. Or perhaps not. I do remember that when I sold magic books at conventions I would sign the author's name inside. Very wicked of me but then it would increase sales and I AM a grafter after all!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leo Garet » March 6th, 2020, 1:12 pm

performer wrote: I do remember that when I sold magic books at conventions I would sign the author's name inside. Very wicked of me but then it would increase sales and I AM a grafter after all!


So that's how I managed to get hold of an autographed copy.

Oh well I'll still cherish it.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 6th, 2020, 1:13 pm

So, I have changed my mind again, and here is the thread where you can discuss Steve's book. Argh.
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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Longtimelurker » March 6th, 2020, 1:20 pm

Has the second impression corrected all spelling errors and typographical errors?

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Leo Garet » March 6th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:So, I have changed my mind again, and here is the thread where you can discuss Steve's book. Argh.

Well you did say something to the effect that it deserved its own thread. Now that copies are out and about comments are becoming more plentiful, your original thought/idea hunch has proved solid.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 6th, 2020, 3:44 pm

Longtimelurker wrote:Has the second impression corrected all spelling errors and typographical errors?


I would bet on it. If there's one thing that ticks me off, its spoiling eroors and typological eerers!

But, after all, we're all only humane...

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Steve Mills » March 6th, 2020, 3:55 pm

My set did not survive the USPS Department of Abuse and Mangling. They have been most gracious dealing with it.
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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby erdnasephile » March 6th, 2020, 4:32 pm

Longtimelurker wrote:Has the second impression corrected all spelling errors and typographical errors?


From the website (at the time of this post):
Only two printing typos have been corrected along with one error in the second printing. The plan is to correct all errors and grammatical issues in a Second Edition—if warranted. Many books are just reaching their destination, so it’s difficult to build a complete erratum until the books have been in the hands of readers for a few weeks. An Erratum will be added soon to the website, so please check it before emailing any form of error.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby performer » March 6th, 2020, 5:11 pm

I am quite astonished at the interest of magicians in anything to do with poker, card sharking and gambling generally. I strongly suspect that any book with a gambling theme sells very well to magicians. I know for a fact that this one does:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Poker-King ... 2112339133

How do I know? I read the book for myself and got a psychic vibe that it would sell well to magicians. I found that the author lived in Dublin (where I infested at the time) and arranged to meet him at some fancy hotel or other. I purchased a ton of the paper backed books direct from him and advertised them in Abra. I was astonished at the response and they all sold out very quickly indeed. Yet there was no reference to cheating or card moves in the book and the advertising did not imply there was either. It was full of stories about the characters in the world of gambling and I must say that they sounded a lot more colourful than all the boring magicians that seem to be around.

As a result I strongly suspect that if a writer was to write any kind of book concerning gambling whether it had card tricks and sleights or not would sell very well if marketed to magicians. That is probably why the Steve Forte book has done so well.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » March 6th, 2020, 5:29 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:Would saying which particular technique Steve has improved upon be considered "exposing"?

Exactly!

Exposing what?

Please just say what you're talking about.

Next thing you know we'll be seeing posts like ...
"I really like Steve's advice on the Z----w sh---le. Can't wait to read his take on the bot--m d--l."

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Roger M. » March 6th, 2020, 6:49 pm

I'm with Brad and Alfred.
I would posit that with two giant volumes of material, and with each book weighing almost too much to read it in bed ... taking the time, and offering the detail required to speak specifically about a sleight that Forte addresses won't (and can't) ever begin to approach "exposure", especially as there are already 200 second deals (for example) out there so SF's take on finger placement or timing (if it's relevant to your post) can quite legitimately be described and discussed ... or otherwise why even bother posting about it in the first place?

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby JustinM » March 6th, 2020, 7:10 pm

calm down guys, i was excited, chose the wrong word and posted without thinking.. can someone PLEASE delete the post before someone else get their panties in a bunch?

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby skmayhew » March 6th, 2020, 9:44 pm

erdnasephile wrote:
Longtimelurker wrote:Has the second impression corrected all spelling errors and typographical errors?


From the website (at the time of this post):
Only two printing typos have been corrected along with one error in the second printing. The plan is to correct all errors and grammatical issues in a Second Edition—if warranted. Many books are just reaching their destination, so it’s difficult to build a complete erratum until the books have been in the hands of readers for a few weeks. An Erratum will be added soon to the website, so please check it before emailing any form of error.


I don't know which issues have been addressed, so I'll just point out this one in case it helps future editions.

On page 726 the phrase "breath of experience" is used twice, once in a quote from Ortiz's Erdnase book. Clearly this should be "breadth of experience" and, in fact, on page 23 of "The Annotated Erdnase" Ortiz uses the correct phrase.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 6th, 2020, 11:18 pm

JustinM wrote:calm down guys, i was excited, chose the wrong word and posted without thinking.. can someone PLEASE delete the post before someone else get their panties in a bunch?
What? Hold onto whatever possessed you to write those posts and put it to use in your presentation. Slips and panties, tics and tells... back to the topic, how's your improved card handling going?

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Zig Zagger » March 7th, 2020, 5:16 am

performer wrote:I am quite astonished at the interest of magicians in anything to do with poker, card sharking and gambling generally. I strongly suspect that any book with a gambling theme sells very well to magicians. (...)
As a result I strongly suspect that if a writer was to write any kind of book concerning gambling whether it had card tricks and sleights or not would sell very well if marketed to magicians. That is probably why the Steve Forte book has done so well.

I guess there are two reasons for that:

First, we magicians love magic lore, stories, and riddles, the more fantastic the better. Real-world deceivers like cheats and hustlers attract our attention, earn our respect and trigger our imagination.

Second, we love to fancy ourselves as suave card mechanics with nerves of steel at the poker table, but because of our embarrassing shortcomings in the real world we resort to the second best thing: we pretend to be experts at the card table by doing risk-free gambling tricks and demonstrations.
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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby performer » March 7th, 2020, 8:07 am

I have actually known quite a few cheats and hustlers in my time! A tiny few card sharks too come to think of it! And also an even tinier amount of 3 card monte hustlers too! A few ended up in jail including a chap I shared an apartment with! Naturally, I have avoided such wickedness myself and as a psychic reverend and holy man of the cloth I have always been an upstanding citizen.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Q. Kumber » March 7th, 2020, 12:40 pm

Zig Zagger wrote:First, we magicians love magic lore, stories, and riddles, the more fantastic the better.


I wish more magicians would pay attention to adding that kind of interest to their presentations. Many attempt but very few succeed. One example that succeeds is Harry Lorayne's Card Shark and Four Gamblers. Total nonsense yet totally engaging.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Roger M. » March 7th, 2020, 1:03 pm

What on earth does any of this have to do with Steve Forte's book?
Or is it just freestyle on in any convenient thread about any topic that happens to come to mind?

SF's book very specifically has nothing at all to do with magical gambling tricks.
Why don't we reserve this thread for folks who own, or have read the book ... and who are posting on specific contents of the book?
Yeah ... that's a better idea.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 7th, 2020, 1:33 pm

Roger: typical internet jibber-jabber, and I agree with you.
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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby skmayhew » March 8th, 2020, 1:31 am

Roger M. wrote:SF's book very specifically has nothing at all to do with magical gambling tricks.


From "Chapter 9 - Pseudo Gambling Stunts":

"'Pseudo gambling stunts' add another layer of deception by incorporating magic moves and subtleties, and they often look nothing like real hustler's moves or scams. These stunts tend to add colorful commentary, which is generally nothing more than bold-faced lies, all in the spirit of entertainment."

Forte then rolls out almost 300 pages of 'Pseudo gambling stunts'. And there are some amazing 'magical gambling tricks' contained therein. Check out the Impressions chapter.

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Re: Discuss Steve Forte's Book "Gambling Sleight of Hand" HERE

Postby Roger M. » March 8th, 2020, 10:21 am

Indeed, I have read the book. The contents are not unknown to me.
Pseudo gambling stunts as per Fortes book are (IMO) not magical gambling tricks by definition or description.

Of course the freedom to equate pseudo gambling stunts (as per Forte's book) to magical gambling tricks remains the individuals choice, and my choice considers those Pseudo Gambling Stunts described in the book to be unrelated to run of the mill gambling magic tricks, which are often partially or completely unrelated to gambling - or rife with inaccurate procedures undertaken only to achieve the effect, with no concern for accuracy.

YMMV of course (and appears to).

Personally, I find the pseudo gambling stunts in Forte's book so far beyond typical gambling magic tricks, that although I get where the connection you're making comes from ... I ultimately consider that "pseudo gambling stunts" and "gambling card tricks" are like chalk and cheese.
All of the above of course based on personal opinion, founded in the fact that I'm not a magician and don't demonstrate card magic to other magicians. Rather I'm a gambling sleights hobbyist who enjoys the opportunity to occasionally entertain fellow gambling enthusiasts with a deck of cards or a pair of dice.


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