The Jerx Year Three

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Brad Henderson
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 16th, 2018, 10:36 am

please quote me where i said people allow themselves to be fooled for the delight of it.

never said that

when you learn to actually respond to arguments made then you can criticize someone's 'logic'.

mark has just refuted your claim that everyone knows how it's done.

i've used the svengali deck many times and never had anyone suspect it was a trick deck. perhaps that's because when one considers the context of introduction you can get people to not suspect common items like a deck of cards. Now, if i were introducing something unusual for someone to have - say a bucket of rainwater - yes, in that case the smart performer would be dealing with an inherently suspicious audience. obviously.

if your goal in magic - as you stated - is to create illusions for the audience to try to figure out, how is the person who does just that deserving of contempt and scorn?

your entire routine is predicated on getting someone to try to catch you out, and then you make them look a fool for doing exactly what you want them to do.

to me, that makes the magician look like a manipulative jerk.

but hey, you keep telling us about your grasp on 'logic'.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 16th, 2018, 10:51 am

Despite what I said a significant number of people do indeed know the deck or at least have seen it in action. They may even own one although they probably haven't looked at it for years. Now when I say a "significant number" I really mean only one or at the most two in a crowd of say 20 people. And they will only know it if you do not show the deck to be all the same and all different. However, here is the quandary. That is the most astonishing use of the deck and it will garner more reaction than anything else! Sure there are plenty of tricks with the deck that do not show the cards to be all the same but then you can do that type of thing with an ordinary deck anyway!

I refuse to sacrifice the greatest trick you can do with a svengali deck just because a few people will know it or have seen it already. And the fact that many people have purchased the deck in the past doesn't deter me from using it in trade shows and other professional gigs. So how do I handle the fact that there might well be someone in the crowd who knows the deck. Sure, I could switch the pack for a regular deck but to be honest, I just can't be bothered. So do you know what I do?

I simply say, "This is a trick deck of cards that I purchased in a magic shop". There. Problem solved. It doesn't make the blindest difference to the reaction and if you are a bit of a purist and do switch the deck they will be even more astonished to find there is nothing wrong with them at all and will wonder if you were spoofing them when you said it was a trick deck.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 16th, 2018, 12:07 pm

Perhaps part of the "Svengali Sucker" routine could play out as perverse magic - with the pack switched after the display of "all the same" - and the presentation claiming to have almost all of the routine ready to perform but getting stuck at the end.

Tap the pack, it's back on top. Cut the pack, it's back on top. Then they all are the same card... but that's where I get stuck on the instructions (reach into pocket for instructions- blizzard switch ) and ...
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Joe Mckay » March 16th, 2018, 12:47 pm

So many card guys spend years studying magic and learning difficult sleight of hand. Yet there is a very good chance they will never perform a trick as astonishing as the Svengali deck.

I always found that a fascinating proposition. And it was Mark's book on the subject that first opened my eyes to this possibility.

I shouldn't be surprised though. The Invisible Deck is pretty much the best trick that most magicians do. Yet - they would rather show their audience their latest version of the 4 ace trick or a collectors routine. Magic is full of funny ironies like this one.
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 16th, 2018, 12:47 pm

I forgot that you are a mind reader, Brad. You say you have performed with a Svengali Deck and nobody suspected it was gaffed? Could it be that you are mistaking your audience's well mannered quiescence for credulity?

I'm not going to waste time quoting you, word for word, when most of the followers of this thread recall in essence, your mantra about an experience of wonder that the spectator values more than truth.

But--How ironic! That you attribute to me the confession that I purposely challenge the audience to
figure out how effects are achieved. That is your mischaracterisation.

I simply forfend against the inevitability of someone either knowing the usual method or logically deducing it. I like to be ready to react glibly to cynicism. To remain calm, should anyone suspect.

Without a contingency plan, I would never run the risk of discovery. Especially with such a common routine.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 16th, 2018, 2:00 pm

again not what i said.

but this IS what you said

jkeyes1000 wrote:

I consider The Art of Magic a challenge. The performer creates a mystery, and the viewer tries to solve it.


so, when the viewer does EXACTLY what you expect of them, you make them look like an idiot.

classy!

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 16th, 2018, 2:10 pm

Joe Mckay wrote:So many card guys spend years studying magic and learning difficult sleight of hand. Yet there is a very good chance they will never perform a trick as astonishing as the Svengali deck.


You know, it is funny that you should say that. It is exactly what Ron MacMillann cynically told me decades ago when I was trying to show him some card trick or other. He said, "The best card trick anyone can do is the svengali deck. It is just as good if not better than anything else"

Of course he built his business on the svengali deck. If there was no svengali deck there would have been no International Magic. And come to think of it I helped him build that business with all the bloody svengali decks I sold for him.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Zig Zagger » March 16th, 2018, 2:42 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Tap the pack, it's back on top. Cut the pack, it's back on top. Then they all are the same card... but that's where I get stuck on the instructions (reach into pocket for instructions- blizzard switch ) and ...


Thinking along these lines, how about this:

1. Start performing your Ambitious Card routine with the generous help of the Sven.
2. Finally, turn all cards into the ambitious card.
3. Turn half of the deck back into regular cards.
4. Put the "all alikes" half aside, but have one signed by a spectator. (Regular size may help. Of that card, not of the spectator.)
5. Continue and close your Ambitious Card routine with the regular half deck.

Just a thought.
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 16th, 2018, 2:56 pm

Now even I am amused that this thread has turned into a massive discussion on the svengali deck! I think this is an opportune time for me to highly recommend this book on the subject. I know the author personally and can confirm that he is a genius of the first magnitude.

https://www.marklewisentertainment.com/ ... short.html

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 16th, 2018, 3:37 pm

Joe Mckay wrote:So many card guys spend years studying magic and learning difficult sleight of hand. Yet there is a very good chance they will never perform a trick as astonishing as the Svengali deck.

I always found that a fascinating proposition. And it was Mark's book on the subject that first opened my eyes to this possibility.

I shouldn't be surprised though. The Invisible Deck is pretty much the best trick that most magicians do. Yet - they would rather show their audience their latest version of the 4 ace trick or a collectors routine. Magic is full of funny ironies like this one.


Well, i would imagine that said "card guys" spend all those years of study simply because they really, really enjoy learning difficult sleight of hand and the accomplishment that comes with mastery - the proverbial "labor of love."

However, if your goal is to blow a spectator's mind to kingdom come, nothing beats the iD. Perhaps this is because with effects such as the Collectors and 4 Ace Routines, the spectators witness the magician do a substantial bit of work to get to the denouement. Since they already assume that the magician can accomplish amazing feats using sleight of hand, the impact and reaction of routines manifestly accomplished by sleight of hand can only reach a certain zenith, given the spectators' pre-existing expectations. However, when you think about it, there are zero moves or "work" involved in the ID, simply a spreading of the cards to reveal that the "thought of" card is face down. This takes the effect out of the realm of manipulative skill/sleight of hand, and plants it firmly into the realm of "magic."

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 16th, 2018, 3:40 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:... blow a spectator's mind to kingdom come, nothing beats the iD. ...
These days it's really tempting to r/s a double deck to ...
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 16th, 2018, 3:46 pm

With regard to this point I am completely ruthless with methods. I don't care if I use sleight of hand (which I am quite capable of) or a mathematical principle. I don't care if I use a gaffed card or a gimmick (although it is a bit inconvenient). It makes utterly no difference to me whether I use a psychological principle or a subtlety. I really have no interest in sleight of hand for the sake of sleight of hand. Clever for the sake of being clever. It is the EFFECT THAT COUNTS. That is all that I am concerned with. The best and most direct method is what I looking for. If that takes sleight of hand, even difficult sleight of hand so be it. However, if it takes no particular dexterity so be it also.

A lot of silly people that do magic work to their own detriment by using a difficult method if an easier one is available. In fact I have often thought that it is foolish to be skillful beyond the bounds of necessity in any individual trick. I am not in the slightest bit interest in feeling pleased with myself because I have mastered a certain sleight. The sleights are a means to an end--no more and no less.

As Billy McComb used to say it is what comes out of the end of the sausage machine that matters.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 16th, 2018, 7:01 pm

Brad--I see how you might have misinterpreted the earlier statement I made. I never actually said it was my goal to challenge the audience. That was just an acknowledgement of the inherent challenge of magic. A challenge I am prepared to take up.

It is my objective to "create a mystery", but the audience itself is accountable for the scepticism. I don't blame anyone for trying to figure out an illusion. It's his right to use his brain. But it's my right to make it as difficult as I can for him.

My "sucker routine" is not a challenge. If the troublemaker had refrained from grabbing the deck, there would be no consequence. Technically, it is a "trap", but it's his own fault if he rushes into it.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 18th, 2018, 3:05 pm

so you lay a trap, exploiting what you expect an audience member to do. and when they take it, you make them look like a jerk.

again, classy!

But that's not what you do. this is what you do:

If a member of the audience claims to know how it was done, ignore him until you have reached into the pocket for the box, and switched packs. . . . You may now either proceed with another bit, and let him grab the cards, or invite him to demonstrate his familiarity with the trick.


So it's not really a case of him being a jerk and grabbing the deck, but you goading him into it.

Sooooo classy.

But it doesn't matter, because you've never done this in your life.

1) if you deconstruct two svengali decks you DONT get a deck of duplicates and a full deck - at least not with any of the pitch decks that are sold. And even on the nicer decks there is no guarantee you could make a full deck from the non force cards.

2) your routine requires the use of two pockets, a table, and a newspaper that happens to be on site and moved for no reason whatsoever.

so you want us to beleive you would go to all this effort for something that, in the hands of a magician with any skill at audience management, would never occur - yet you would never instigate.

3) you seem to believe that your newspaper switch which occurs without motivation and at a moment when at least one person will be burning every move you make will prove deceptive.

4) You even tell them that you will show them how to do the magic before you do the switch. And you expect it not to be obvious?

if you believe that, i don't believe you've ever performed a trick for a real audience in your life.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 18th, 2018, 6:20 pm

Brad: First of all, the "invitation" is in gracious response to the heckler's repeated insistence that he knows how the trick is done.

It is not a lure, but a welcome.

Second: I personally am not so fastidious that I would require the "ordinary" deck to have a full complement of suits and pips. So long as the pack consists of a variety of cards and does not permit the fellow to "do as I do".

I already said above that I haven't performed the bit. I just conceived it, moments before I posted it. And I don't use trick decks in my occasional act. I prefer to either borrow one from a volunteer or lend him or her the money to buy a new one.

I don't see that as a valid criticism. Nor any of your other observations, about the suspicious nature of a newspaper, or the presence of a table.

You are obviously grasping at straws.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 18th, 2018, 7:35 pm

uh huh. because in a trick where you challenge them to make duplicate cards, you 'win' when they look through the deck and SEE duplicate cards.

You REALLY don't think these things through, do you? I mean, you just said you wouldn't use a trick deck in a formal show (silly restriction, but whatever) yet for a casual impromptu de i you expect us to believe you have three decks AND one of which is hidden under a newspaper AND this is just in 'case' someone challenges you AND that someone who is so engaged as to challenge you wouldn't be all over the newspaper during and after the switch - which you alert them to before doing it.

i guess that's the nice thing about day dreaming. You literally can imagine anything working!

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 18th, 2018, 7:58 pm

Brad: When the impetuous fool looks at the cards, all he will see (to his chagrin) is what is not there. The expected alternation of the force card throughout the deck. Having boasted to the crowd that he can repeat the performer's wizardry, how is he going to "save face" by whining that it's not a compete pack? If this is what you would do, perhaps you need to stop dreaming.

My original suggestion was to purchase a regular and a one-way deck with matching backs. Mr. Townsend pointed out the difficulty of finding these. Thus my "simplified" version. Okay?

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 19th, 2018, 7:54 am

the impetuous fool who is doing only exactly what you expect him to do?

and you really think that this imaginary fool whom you have invented - who would be so incensed as to grab the deck - wouldn't show everyone that your cards are not authentic?

you live in a world of your imagination keyes. i don't think you've ever done a trick for a living human being in your life.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 19th, 2018, 9:14 am

I sold svengali decks in Blackpool. During that period I don't think I performed for a living human being either. It was like working to the undead in a vampire movie.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 19th, 2018, 10:44 am

Brad: it is evidently you that lives In an imaginary world, devoid of logic and reading comprehension. I have made it clear (to everyone but you), that this is a contingency plan. We all know this can happen. Has happened, and will happen.

Yes, the idiot can try to cover his embarrassment by pointing out some irrelevant detail about the deck, but to what effect? Do you really think he (or you) can deflect everyone's attention from his failure?

The cards are taken from two Svengali decks. They are precisely the sort that anyone familiar with the trick would expect to find. Just no dupes.

So you could say they are "regular Svengali" cards. The ones you see when the pack is riffled. In other words: they are simply in their "random state".

When you use the Svengali deck, do you assure your audience that it is complete with all 52 denominations? Of course not! You "manage" the crowd by lying to them and changing the subject.

Classy.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 19th, 2018, 3:49 pm

except this isn't that situation. It's a case of someone who is looking for duplicate cards going through the deck and looking for - wait for it - DUPLICATE CARDS.

you have no idea how real people react to magic, do you?

it's adorable how you think you will get away with two deck switches, including one that is utterly unmotivated and occurs under scrutiny.

but why would you think you would need to switch the deck twice to make your point?

it's typical " non magician pretending to be a magician thinking" you're engaged in - again.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 19th, 2018, 8:19 pm

Brad: One question. So what--if the guy finds two eight-of-hearts? The deck isn't going to enable him to demonstrate the effect, or reveal the secret.

He is effectively disarmed. He's got nothing. A lot like you, really.

I confess that the two switches is a bit much, and I'm not sure I would bother. Simply switching for either the "regular" or the one-way ought to be sufficient in most circumstances.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 20th, 2018, 10:05 am

you've never performed for real people in the real world, so you don't know how they respond.

If someone feels the need so strongly to want to debunk you, to show they are correct, they aren't going to accept the defeat. they will - as someone once said - wait for any small error and then pounce on it. recall who said that???

when a belligerent person feels the need to explain a trick, any explanation becomes a victory for them. That the explanation may not be complete, or even viable, is irrelevant.

You would of course know this had you any real world flight time.

So the moment they see something wrong with the pack, they will claim victory and you have lost.

Now, setting up a contest in the first place - which you are doing - is a bad idea. But you seem stuck on that so it is what it is.

anyway, here is the situation as it will play out. the person accuses you of using a trick deck. They take the deck and not seeing it constructed as they expect it will look even more closely at the cards because they are now committed to their accusation and don't wish to look foolish. They will spot the duplicate cards and offer that as proof that you aren't using 'real' cards.

now you have to try to explain logically to someone who is responding emotionally how those duplicates would not allow you to perform the trick they saw.

trust me - they won't hear you. They have just exposed you. Your deck isn't a real deck. You lost, they won

Now you want to believe that you can do a deck switch when someone has their entire ego wrapped up in exposing you even more.

that's inexperience speaking.

so, with your admission that a double deck switch is pointless, we are left with your contribution being - you can switch out the svengali deck when you are done with it.

yes. yes you can

i'm sure you're the first person to think of this.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 20th, 2018, 11:25 am

This is all very theoretical and nobody really knows the answer until the effect is tried on laymen a few times. My suggestion is that jkeyes tries it out at least once on laymen and report back.. Even if it doesn't go over well he can always lie and say that it did. That is what I would do anyway!

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 20th, 2018, 3:54 pm

Brad: you are the very desperate and determined naysayer that you hypothetically describe. I have had plenty of experience dealing with that sort--believe me.

They (and you) tend to nitpick, but in so doing, they miss the point. It does me no harm to admit it is a "trick deck". The question is, How does it work? All eyes are on you.

If he tries to explain the method, he is going to lack any evidence of the "short cards" and of course, the dozens of identical cards that everyone saw just a moment ago. Where did they go?

"You switched them!"

'Did I?" An eye-roll for comic effect may be directed at the crowd.

What can be prove? Nothing but what the performer chooses to concede. All the wretch has is a handful of useless cards and a pitiable sob story. Like you, he may persist. But the onlookers are likely to trust the calm and benign performer rather than the agitated and belligerent boor.

I never write routines with an inflexible regimen to them. They are guidelines and suggestions. That's actually one of the reasons that I don't do this professionally. I hate "uniform" moves and patter. I myself never follow a script, but ,"play it by ear".

One could do it the other way round, switch the one-way first (with all the force cards in the box) and later, when you have done quite enough to dispel suspicion and put the sucker in his place, show the pack to have reverted to its random sequence on your skilful hands. And again--Who other than the putz is about to complain?

Your "crowd management" techniques ought to take care of him. Or don't you agree?

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 20th, 2018, 5:15 pm

if one had good crowd management skills then no one would ever reach for the pack and everything you offered here ia pointless.

Your option is only relevant if someone truly has it out for you OR you goad them into it.

in the first case the duplicate cards will be enough to damn you. Likewise, he will likely ask to see into your pockets. If he knows you switched them it's only now a matter of sussing out where. Further your admission to using a trick pack will be taken as a concession that he was indeed correct. i don't think that's the victory you think it is.

in the second case, well, you're a jerk who sets his audiences up for ridicule.

so you've done a lot of work for really no good reason at all.

but i wouldn't expect you to know that unless you've spent some real time working for a wide variety of people.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 20th, 2018, 5:43 pm

Brad/Keyes, please tone down your discussion. No personal comments. Thank you.
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 21st, 2018, 9:57 am

Brad: The "option' here is the choice between ignoring a rude audience member who claims to have knowledge of the secret, and settling the matter by allowing him to make his case.


I prefer to show folks that I am not afraid of scrutiny, that I appreciate scepticism, and am willing to address it. This I feel, deepens the sense of wonder by contenting the crowd that its cynical ideas are baseless.

You may try hypnotising the watchers, or otherwise gaining their trust, but if they are not allowed to participate in the experiment, they are likely to harbour a lot of doubt, whether they voice it not.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 21st, 2018, 12:14 pm

I think this is going to go on for a while.........................................

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 21st, 2018, 12:45 pm

performer wrote:I think this is going to go on for a while.........................................


Yes, well Brad is the type that resents my attitude. His point appears to change from this petty thing to that, but it's really all the same. He just wants to win!

I will admit that I am as stubborn as he is, but at least I am sincerely trying to clarify my philosophy rather than daze and confuse everybody.

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 21st, 2018, 1:15 pm

The proof is in the pudding - in our craft that's the real-world-in-action performing utility of a routine.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 21st, 2018, 1:33 pm

i stand by my case. keye's 'solution' is that of someone who lacks real world performing experience. This is i think completely relevant for this thread as many of the offerings and theories offered on the jerx are colored by the same condition.

keyes claims a tactic he has never tried will work. i think it's a foolish ruse which is flawed in a fundamental manner.

he knows this - which is why his tune has changed to merely switching in a regular deck after the svengali.

so i ask - who hasn't thought of that?

it's obvious.

but that wasn't his first attempt. his first attempt revealed he doesn't know how modern svengali decks are constructed and in doing so undermines his goal of putting the spectator in his place (how enobling) AND he offered an unmotivated deck switch after the heat has been turned up to full blast.

it's bad thinking built on inexperience.

that's not narcissism talking. that's just what it is

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 21st, 2018, 3:18 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:i stand by my case. keye's 'solution' is that of someone who lacks real world performing experience. This is i think completely relevant for this thread as many of the offerings and theories offered on the jerx are colored by the same condition.

keyes claims a tactic he has never tried will work. i think it's a foolish ruse which is flawed in a fundamental manner.

he knows this - which is why his tune has changed to merely switching in a regular deck after the svengali.

so i ask - who hasn't thought of that?

it's obvious.

but that wasn't his first attempt. his first attempt revealed he doesn't know how modern svengali decks are constructed and in doing so undermines his goal of putting the spectator in his place (how enobling) AND he offered an unmotivated deck switch after the heat has been turned up to full blast.

it's bad thinking built on inexperience.

that's not narcissism talking. that's just what it is


Would you like me to end this little game, folks?

Alright--here we go.

You say I claim that a tactic I have never tried will work. The tactic bring the switching of a deck of cards.

Even if it were true that I had never switched a deck in my life, it is hardly unprecedented in the history of Magic. I daresay everyone reading this is familiar with various practical means of achieving it.

Anyone that suggests it is unmanageable reveals either his lack of experience, or is vainly sputtering. As I can't imagine that you have never switched anything, the conclusion is beyond doubt.

You are merely huffing and puffing, Brad. Try to tell everyone else who proposes switching a deck that he is "green'. Half the posts in this forum are ideas that haven't been enacted by the writer. Nor do they need to be, when we all know they make sense.

And when you vaunt of your "real world experience", does that include a sort of clairvoyance that enables you to determine how much practice a total stranger has had?

Is it really your track record that you are boasting of, or your phenomenal intuition?

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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 21st, 2018, 3:59 pm

i never said you can't switch decks. i'm saying that second deck switch under the newspaper which occurs at the time when the heat is at the greatest won't work

but i'll go further.

your entire contribution consists of engaging with someone who, at the time you perform your trick, knows how it works and wants to expose you.

you believe that switching decks will go unnoticed by someone who wants to bust you so badly they are comfortable reaching for the cards.

so you are doing to switch a deck when someone is ruthlessly tracking the deck.

that's why i call you out for inexperience.

yes, switching decks can be done - but to be successful one has to choose the right moment as well as the right move.

in your first switch you have a workable
move but not at the right moment. If someone is tracking the cards - as a debunker would - the move occurs under scrutiny.

In the second i don't believe you have either. sure a switch under a newspaper could work, but not the way you are suggesting and definitely not when someone is gunning for you.

it's neither clairvoyance nor telepathy that suggests you lack experience. It's an analysis of the ideas as presented.

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jkeyes1000
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 21st, 2018, 4:30 pm

Brad: Again, you show that it is you that lacks the ability to understand the premise

If someone is familiar with The Svengali Deck, he is not going to suspect a switch, as it rarely happens.

All he will want to do is get his hands on it.

Fine. Let him have it.

If you are afraid that he is going to want to search your pockets, then you've got plenty of time to ditch the Svengali while he is poring over the "random" pack.

What's he going to do then--get a warrant to ransack your belongings? I think when the cops arrive, he'll be the one they drag off.

The second switch occurs after what will seem like a bomb drop. A shocker. What--this isn't the Svengali deck! You switched it!

It is a "bold" move, I'll admit, but if the performer senses that the fellow thinks that's the worst of it, he might manage to get in another dig. It would depend on the circumstance.

But the second switch isn't necessary. One can simply leave it there and still be a smash.

I never suggested this was a brilliant or innovative notion. My original point was that if I were to use a Svengali, I would insist on switching decks in order to avoid the almost inevitable outcry.

What is the better alternative--the classic routine or The Switch? That is the only relevant question as far as I'm concerned.

Brad Henderson
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Brad Henderson » March 21st, 2018, 6:25 pm

let's go work a bar mitzvah sometime and we will see how well your theory pans out.

the thing is keyes, you don't seem to grasp the basic concept of timing. When the guy recognizes the pack and wants to catch you out, the switch won't fly.

If he's so determined to bust you that he would reach for your props, then you are mistaken to think he won't track your hand going into the pocket for the deck.

and you actually believe that if someone suspects that there is a deck in your pocket he is even going to take more than a glance at the deck in his hands - the one he saw you switch? and you expect to switch that one out at that point?

again, it's not going to happen

But prove me wrong. let's go to an event populated by say 13 year olds who are more than happy to tell you about the magic camp they went to once. Let's do it for those guys and you show me how well these switches play out.

my guess is, of the two of us, im the only one who regularly works for strangers and had encounter the tough ones.

they don't work the way you think.

performer
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 21st, 2018, 8:23 pm

It seems that three svengali decks are required for this miracle which I haven't yet read carefully. I probably should. One think I am not short of is svengali decks so I suppose I should exert myself to get hold of three of them and mess about with it a bit. Maybe I will. And then give a verdict on the matter. However, the final verdict can only be given once it is performed for laymen a few times and the reaction noted.

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jkeyes1000
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby jkeyes1000 » March 21st, 2018, 10:35 pm

performer wrote:It seems that three svengali decks are required for this miracle which I haven't yet read carefully. I probably should. One think I am not short of is svengali decks so I suppose I should exert myself to get hold of three of them and mess about with it a bit. Maybe I will. And then give a verdict on the matter. However, the final verdict can only be given once it is performed for laymen a few times and the reaction noted.


Think of all the decks you could sell if this routine catches on. You could offer a choice of either a "normal" or a one-way pack for switching. And Mark Lewis' "Ultimate Svengali Kit" which would include three decks all together!

performer
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Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby performer » March 22nd, 2018, 12:00 am

I won't be doing that!

Joe Mckay
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Favorite Magician: Lubor Fiedler
Location: Durham, England

Re: The Jerx Year Three

Postby Joe Mckay » July 21st, 2018, 9:20 am

Andy has a great trick here. And he introduces a new concept for predicting random information that makes it much more personal and compelling. This one simple idea is worth its weight in gold.

http://www.thejerx.com/blog/2018/7/17/the-distance-you-can-be-from-your-son

Andy also makes use of a Lubor Fiedler idea as part of a gag effect before building up to the kicker ending. I always liked this Lubor Fiedler idea (where you cover part of a written prediction so that you can achieve a 2-way out).

I just want to double check that this idea does belong to Lubor Fiedler. That is the way I have seen it credited in the past. But at the same time - it is such a simple (and clever) idea, that I am curious if the idea goes back even further than Lubor Fiedler?

Maybe Max can chip in here?


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