New P&T Magic Set

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P.T.Widdle
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 19th, 2016, 11:45 am

I contacted Royal Magic and said they would provide the new videos with proof of purchase (order number).
That's fine, but I wonder why they released the set without the P&T videos in the first place, or even a note saying the videos would be available later. Nothing on the website either.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby observer » May 19th, 2016, 6:55 pm

P.T.Widdle wrote:I wonder why they released the set without the P&T videos in the first place, or even a note saying the videos would be available later. .


Because P&T wanted to put as little effort into the product as possible? And because when sales were mediocre they decided "Oh well, if people are going to whine about the quality we'll make some videos, maybe that'll shut them up, the big babies"?

I put these forth merely as speculative solutions to the questions above.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 19th, 2016, 7:41 pm

You have no idea what you're writing about. No facts. Just blabbering.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 19th, 2016, 8:21 pm

I also wonder about the lack of a deck of cards. Was that a conscious decision? I can understand not having a trick deck, but no deck at all to go with the 125 card trick Marshall booklet?

Maybe Genii's upcoming item about the set will have the answers.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 19th, 2016, 9:24 pm

Ya think?
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magicrobharv
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby magicrobharv » May 20th, 2016, 8:53 am

What a lie! Marshall Brodien's magic sets had VHS tapes with Marshall himself performing / explaining the tricks. A quick search on YouTube and you can find them easily. The first one to do it ???. What a crock !

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby magicrobharv » May 20th, 2016, 9:05 am

Seriously? Penn's saying their the first ones to actually teach the tricks on a video? ??? A quick YouTube search for Marshall Brodien's kits in the 1990's shows him demonstrating and teaching his tricks on a 1990's VHS video, teaching the tricks that came with his magic set. Way before Penn & Teller.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 20th, 2016, 1:40 pm

What are you referring to?
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 20th, 2016, 1:47 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:What are you referring to?


He is referring to Penn's tweet that, "We're the first guys to do our own demos."

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby observer » May 20th, 2016, 2:13 pm

P.T.Widdle wrote: Penn's tweet that, "We're the first guys to do our own demos."


He has no idea what he's talking about. Just blabbering.
Last edited by observer on May 20th, 2016, 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby observer » May 20th, 2016, 2:14 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:. Just blabbering.


I prefer the term "merely speculative solutions".

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby P.T.Widdle » June 17th, 2016, 8:16 pm

Nice to see Teller talking with Genii again. I'm happy Richard loves the new magic set. While I agree with many of the compliments he bestows upon the set, I still stand by my criticisms that I pointed out earlier:

- No deck of cards when there is a full booklet of card tricks.

- The card booklet is obviously a last-minute addition from the 1970's, and developmentally inappropriate. None of the kids I saw pick it up could make sense of it.

- The existing DVD is truly awful, even if they do promise a new one featuring themselves.

- At least two of the punch-out tricks were unusable. (Richard, are you going to tell me that card with the fingers can be used by a kid? No kid I saw could use it (the fingers printed on it were adult-size).

Again, I don't believe it's a BAD set, just kind of average. And I'm basing that on kids' reactions. Maybe its a sign of the times kind of thing, but the punch-out tricks were not popular with kids. It didn't help that there were no video demos of any of them. Will P&T include punch-out tricks in their new DVD?

The plastic tricks were solid (except for the coin tray, whose lip snapped off), and the rising wand (whose elastic broke almost immediately).

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 17th, 2016, 10:27 pm

If you knew what you were talking about regarding the card trick booklet, and you bothered to look at the credit in the front to see when it was most recently updated, you would note Gabe Fajuri's name. Which means that the booklet was updated in the mid 1990s when he worked for Fun, Inc.

Entirely aside from that, however, publishing a book of simple card tricks to go in a magic set is not something that is in urgent need of updating: anyone who gets the booklet will likely be seeing something like that for the first time, hence it is timeless. And, the tricks that were good for a novice when the booklet were first written are still just as good. Or were you wanting to put Jim Steinmeyer's Nine-Card trick in there?

As far as DeLand's "Fadeaway Card" (the one you noted has the palm on it), it has always been produced so it can be placed into a regular deck of cards. Yes, it's probably too small for most young kids. But FISM contestants use it. All hail Theodore DeLand.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby performer » June 17th, 2016, 11:14 pm

I.M. Magician wrote:Well, it was at least 45 years ago and I was working for Kanter's Magic Shop. Teller used to stop in on Saturdays every now and then. He would sit down with a store copy of our catalog and browse through it looking for a trick to buy.

On this particular day, we didn't have anything he requested from the catalog so he bought a Thumb Tip. The box it came in said it was the Cigarette Through Handkerchief. What you got was a small metal Thumb Tip and a sheet of instructions. If I remember correctly, it was the owner of the shop, Lee Grey, who demonstrated the trick for him.

After he paid for it, he took the Thumb Tip out of the box, placed it on his thumb and stared at it. So Lee took it from him and showed him how you always point it with the tip facing the audience never showing it sideways. When it was handed back to Teller, he placed back on his thumb and once again stared at it sideways. In essence, Teller was already doing Teller! No talking, only gestures which used to drive me crazy. Little did I know that what I was witnessing was Teller's eventual success in its infancy. This was way before Penn.

Teller looked and acted as he does now but I was not ready for such behavior and used to get quite annoyed by him. In fact, that's why the store owner took over at that point.

Anyway, he took his newly purchased Thumb Tip and left leaving Lee and myself both annoyed and puzzled by his behavior. Little did we know...


This thumb tip story reminds me of something that happened nearly fifty years ago. Harry Stanley the famed magic dealer once said to me "Tarbell was a terrible magician" I responded, "How do you know? Did you ever see him perform" Harry said "No". I replied "In that case how do you know he was a terrible magician?" Harry snorted, "I didn't have to see him perform. I just know he was awful" I didn't find this to be great clarification over the matter so I pressed him for more information. He snorted "He purchased a thumb tip from me and kept staring at it exclaiming, "Harry, that is Fantastic! You can't tell the difference between my real thumb and this. It is SO well made!" It seems that Harlan kept looking at it from every angle just like Teller did. Harry seemed to think this activity indicated that Tarbell could not have been a very good magician since he stated with some correctness that a good magician can use a brightly coloured large thimble if he wanted since the thumb tip should not even be seen in the first place!

I have no real opinion as to whether Harry was right or wrong. I just found the incident amusing.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » June 17th, 2016, 11:38 pm

I have heard someone say that before. That is, that he could use a chrome thumb tip and no one would see it.

First of all, I don't agree that no one would see it. How could they not? You have to show your thumb sometime! Second, why push it and look for trouble. In essence, what's the point? It serves no useful purpose and the more deceptive, the better.

Anyway, in my follow-up post, I mentioned how good a magician Teller became. Talk about a learning experience!

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby performer » June 18th, 2016, 12:00 am

I have never used a thumbtip but I suspect that Harry was correct. Not about Tarbell, I hasten to add but probably the thumbtip. Alas the the thing has been exposed and sold in novelty shops nowadays. And given away as part of a magic set very often. I am sick of laymen telling me about "false thumbs". Sure you can still get away with it but that is not the point. It is the bloody trivialization of a beautiful art form that gets to me.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » June 18th, 2016, 12:04 am

I agree! The one that bugs me the most is that character who posted a Tenyo video on YouTube where he exposes quite a few Tenyo tricks, one after another. Why would he do that?

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 18th, 2016, 3:05 am

At Lou Tannen's they would always demo using a thumbtip painted silver. You never saw it, and never suspected.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby performer » June 18th, 2016, 6:59 am

Thank you, Richard. I have known about this thumb tip assertion my entire life. I may be wrong but I could almost swear that Wilfrid Jonson made the same point in print somewhere or other. I think you are better off if it matches your hand but if you are any good it shouldn't matter that much. Perhaps this is what Harry Stanley was getting at.

Mind you, Harry could be very opionated and even rude to his customers if he thought they had no idea what they were talking about. I still cherish the memory of a young professional magician picking up the Dai Vernon Book of Magic which of course Harry published, and saying, "They say he is showing his age now and beginning to fumble"

Harry went ballistic saying, "And you are showing your age now making a statement like that. I brought Vernon over to this country. He has more knowledge of magic in his little finger than you will ever have in your entire body" He continued to berate the poor fellow who suddenly made a hasty departure never to be seen again.

Harry didn't care. He just shook his head and snorted to me, "I can't stand idiots like that!"
Typical magic dealer. I have always said that anyone who sells fun becomes as miserable as sin after a while. Look at me for example.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » June 18th, 2016, 7:53 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:At Lou Tannen's they would always demo using a thumbtip painted silver. You never saw it, and never suspected.


What would be the purpose of doing that? If they were doing it for magicians to make a point, then okay. If they were doing a demo to sell it, I don't see the point. Besides, the customer won't receive a silver thumb tip so you are using something they won't receive which is an ethics issue.

It's similar to doing a demo and performing things which cannot be done with what is included with the trick or using methods that are not explained in the instructions.

Using an obvious thumb tip to convince yourself or someone else that it can be done is one thing but otherwise has no purpose.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby performer » June 18th, 2016, 10:24 am

Well it does prove the point if nothing else.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 18th, 2016, 11:39 am

Newcomers were terrified of using a thumbtip, fearing that a layman would see it. So Lou Tannen painted it silver (they were all metal then). By doing a trick with the silver thumbtip, which was never seen, he convinced the fearful person to buy it.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » June 18th, 2016, 11:47 am

So there had to be some dialogue about the device which led to that. We never said the words thumb tip in the shop. We would demonstrate an effect using one and then sell it not as a thumb tip but as a trick with the words on the box CIGARETTE THROUGH HANDKERCHIEF. When they opened the box, they discovered what was in there.

The exception to that was when Vernet starting making those nice larger vinyl thumb tips. They came packaged as thumb tips and not a magic trick. In essence, a utility device. So, the selling aspect for those was an entirely different thing.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby observer » June 18th, 2016, 1:16 pm

I.M. Magician wrote:I have heard someone say that before. That is, that he could use a chrome thumb tip and no one would see it.



- Quoting Al Baker.

- "nickel-plated" in the original(?) version of the comment.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby performer » June 19th, 2016, 1:08 pm

This is what Wilfrid Jonson had to say regarding the thumb tip issue:

"You will probably think the tip is a very poor imitation of the thumb, particularly as to its colour, but this is not important because it should never be seen by the spectators except for a fleeting moment. Its shape and colour matter very little"

I do know that if I were to use a thumb tip I would make sure nobody saw my thumb in the first place so the issue would not even occur.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby BarryAllen » July 6th, 2016, 6:16 am

Not wanting to go off track but I just wanted to add my tuppence worth about Thumb Tips.

Yes, they are probably known by SOME non-magicians. But the fact remains that apart from them being so readily visible in magic sets, joke shop windows, etc. over many, many years - magicians must take a considerable amount of joint blame for exposure purely for their inability to handle one correctly.

Over the years, I've seen a number of magicians use one - more so a few years back when smoking was more popular. Never ONCE have I seen a magician at a club, convention or actually working at a show, unload/load it either convincingly, or indeed correctly. The vast majority use it for a small silk vanish/reappearance. Nothing wrong with that - but performed badly, it's a give away nearly every time. Some have recognised that "you don't push the thumb into the top of your fist" for the steal........BUT therein lies the main problem. You don't always steal it from the top of your cupped hand anyway.......you steal it from the rear - when it's out of sight!

For anyone wanting some superb instruction on TT usage and a multitude of ideas and effects, I'd unreservedly recommend the Patrick Page DVD.

Moreover, as a regular TT user, I think that the current Vernet soft tips are superb - not only because of their realistic appearance, but also due to the quieter nature of the material when loading coins.

Sorry to take this thread off track but as someone who uses a TT regularly (and has done for 40+ years) I find it incredible that this prop is not used more regularly AND correctly. It enables you to perform anytime, anywhere miracles.

Thanks for reading.


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