New P&T Magic Set

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Joe Mckay
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New P&T Magic Set

Postby Joe Mckay » April 7th, 2016, 6:58 pm

It doesn't really grab me.

https://pennandtellermagic.com/products ... -magic-kit

A shame because the books they wrote for the public (about 20 years ago) were very good. One of the strongest tricks I know is buried in those books.

Was hoping this magic set might stand out from the more run of the mill sets. I am no expert on magic sets but it seems to me that this one is pretty middle of the road. Some pretty strong tricks and some boring ones. But nothing special either way. Seems a pretty standard magic set to me.

Shame since it is always nice to see people try something new. One thinks of the new one from Marvin's magic that breaks new ground. Or some of the ones that Tenyo have released. Or the unusual Mr Creepy set that Mark Setteducati was working on (which sadly never came out).

Looks like a standard magic set manufacturer just wanted to use some P&T branding. Richard Kaufman wrote recently about the American consumer wanting a huge number of tricks in a magic set. As opposed to a higher quality of magical effect. Also - I guess with the price point limitations as well - the US magic set market is pretty restricted in what they can offer.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 7th, 2016, 8:45 pm

I just saw Teller in Los Angeles and he mentioned that he was writing the instructions for one of the tricks. So I have a feeling that the instruction booklet will probably make this worth buying.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Tom Moore » April 8th, 2016, 5:17 am

They are writing different routines and actually planning on using a couple of props from the set in their stage show but in unusual ways specifically to prove the point that it's not the props but the routines and presentation you put around them that change a so-so trick into something different so as RK suggests I think it's the instruction book that will make the biggest difference here.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Joe Mckay » April 8th, 2016, 6:56 am

Okay - now that does sound pretty interesting.

I will make sure I check it out. I am always interested in novel ideas for "slum" magic tricks.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby AJM » April 8th, 2016, 12:13 pm

I don't understand - the magic set is available but the instructions are still being written???
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 8th, 2016, 1:15 pm

I think Teller actually said "WHEN I was writing ...." Not that he was writing it at this moment.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 8th, 2016, 1:41 pm

Perhaps it would have been more worthwhile if Teller wrote a book with his ideas for classic props like Money Maker, Penetration Frame, and the other items in the magic set.

I think that Penn and Teller wanted to have their own magic set released with their faces and names all over it.

It's a very small set and does not add anything worthwhile to the world of magic sets. If it's the instructions that makes it unique, then the focus should have been a book to learn from when performing the several tricks included in the set.

Perhaps it could have been promoted as an ordinary magic set with a new take on the tricks included.

So there's my humble opinion. Just a thought...

I am surprised it doesn't include a Thumb Tip. By the way, believe it or not, I sold Teller his first Thumb Tip. No kidding! And there's an interesting story behind it that I enjoy telling magicians from time to time.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby AJM » April 8th, 2016, 2:32 pm

Aaah - now I understand.

Richard - were you signing up Teller for the next convention by any chance?

Steve - do tell us your story...

Cheers

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Joe Mckay » April 8th, 2016, 2:43 pm

Hope you can share that story, Steve! :-)

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 8th, 2016, 3:10 pm

Well, it was at least 45 years ago and I was working for Kanter's Magic Shop. Teller used to stop in on Saturdays every now and then. He would sit down with a store copy of our catalog and browse through it looking for a trick to buy.

On this particular day, we didn't have anything he requested from the catalog so he bought a Thumb Tip. The box it came in said it was the Cigarette Through Handkerchief. What you got was a small metal Thumb Tip and a sheet of instructions. If I remember correctly, it was the owner of the shop, Lee Grey, who demonstrated the trick for him.

After he paid for it, he took the Thumb Tip out of the box, placed it on his thumb and stared at it. So Lee took it from him and showed him how you always point it with the tip facing the audience never showing it sideways. When it was handed back to Teller, he placed back on his thumb and once again stared at it sideways. In essence, Teller was already doing Teller! No talking, only gestures which used to drive me crazy. Little did I know that what I was witnessing was Teller's eventual success in its infancy. This was way before Penn.

Teller looked and acted as he does now but I was not ready for such behavior and used to get quite annoyed by him. In fact, that's why the store owner took over at that point.

Anyway, he took his newly purchased Thumb Tip and left leaving Lee and myself both annoyed and puzzled by his behavior. Little did we know...

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Joe Mckay » April 8th, 2016, 3:56 pm

haha - cheers, Steve!

It is interesting to consider that the secret to the thumb tip is essentially that of an optical illusion. Hiding it in plain sight by pointing the tip straight at the spectator.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 8th, 2016, 4:15 pm

By the way, he became a really good magician in a relatively short period of time.

It was around six or seven years later and I was at a summer outdoor hangout called Head House in center city Philly. They had a stage where various acts would appear. Who do you think performed that night? Correct! Teller. He did a solo silent stage performance which included his fabulous threading needles. I believe it was not long before he joined forces with Penn. He was terrific! I couldn't believe it! Wow, look who it is and he's really good!

So, at the end of his performance, I went up to him and complimented him. He nodded and smiled. I felt both delighted and sad. Delighted at what I just witnessed and sad that I wasn't more patient and understanding when he used to shop at Kanter's several years before.

I went to see Penn and Teller on Broadway last year and wanted to say hello to him after the show but the line was a mile long. I hope to have the opportunity to speak with him and share my memories of him to see his take on the whole thing. That is, if he even remembers any of it.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Pete McCabe » April 8th, 2016, 5:23 pm

I.M. Magician wrote:Perhaps it would have been more worthwhile if Teller wrote a book with his ideas for classic props like Money Maker, Penetration Frame, and the other items in the magic set.


Based on this thread it sounds like that's exactly what this is. Or am I confused?

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 8th, 2016, 5:33 pm

I meant a separate publication as opposed to instructions included with a set. That way, it would be available to anyone without having to buy another set.

It sounds to me like he is reinterpreting the standard instructions or varying the presentation. It's vague at this point.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Stever Cobb » April 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm

Joe,

I own all of those books you refer to. Would you tell me or give me a hint what trick you are referring to. I have been doing a couple of gags from those books for years, especially the passenger warning system when I want to fool somebody when I am driving. Thank you in advance.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 8th, 2016, 7:41 pm

Like many magic sets, this set boasts over 200 tricks which far exceeds the eight you actually see in the ad. So, I am thinking that what Teller has written is the included tricks which do not come with apparatus such as card tricks.

Take a look at the ad description which Joe included in this thread and see if I am interpreting it correctly. If I am, then I may be on the right track. That is, what Teller has done was to write up the directions and not necessarily create new approaches to the presentations.

Of course, the best way to find out is to buy the set and read the included instructions. :idea:

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Joe Mckay » April 9th, 2016, 8:59 am

Hey Stever,

Check out the Spirit Writing effect using a bible (and a mirror) in 'Penn & Teller's How To Play in Traffic'.

You can find it on page 157.

It is one of the best tricks in all of magic. Let's keep it a secret between me and you.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 9th, 2016, 9:03 am

It says DVD included. Perhaps that may be the worthwhile aspect of that set! If Penn and Teller are on it which I suspect they are, then that makes the set worth buying!

Maybe someone will buy it and report to us here on the forum.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 9th, 2016, 2:57 pm

You'll be able to read all about it in Genii.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Leo Garet » April 10th, 2016, 7:34 am

Every magic set I ever had featured props for about a dozen miracles and a small booklet with 50/100 other Amazing Tricks; never 200, though. Blimey. Once, maybe twice, there was a separate booklet for the Wizard (Stripper) or Magic Cards (Svengali) decks. Although mostly it was a leaflet for these, printed one side only. Comprehensive it wasn’t.

The “general” booklets had mostly card stuff, but occasional coin and handkerchief tricks.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 10th, 2016, 9:15 am

Fantasma has several magic sets which say on the lid 200+ tricks. It usually depends on the size of the set. The larger the set, the larger the number. As with anything, there are exceptions.

The first time I remember seeing an included DVD with a magic set was in one Fantasma released more than a decade ago. It included vintage performances of famous magicians which I thought was a delightful plus with the set.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 10th, 2016, 11:20 am

I'm not sure which country's toy buyers (morons) are responsible for the necessary "100" or "150" or "200" tricks baloney on a magic set. I've seen it on boxes from many countries, going back to the 1970s (I think).

The absurd number is there solely for the toy buyers, who control the industry. And of course it's all the extra tricks you can do with the Stripper and/or Svengali decks which are included solely so you can write an absurd number on the lid of the box.

Note that there is no deck of cards in this P&T set, which makes me curious how they'll reach the 200 number, if they do.

However, at $39, P&T's magic set is double the retail price point at which a toy buyer would purchase a magic set. Thus, I don't see this as something being sold anyplace other than their show and online. Perhaps some high-end specialty shops.

The magic set is not sold on their regular website. It's made by Fun Inc. in Chicago, and most likely the set's website (it's the only thing sold there) is actually linked to Fun Inc. since they fill all the orders.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 10th, 2016, 11:48 am

Penn and Teller sell a specially packaged trick deck in the lobby after the show for $20. I don't know what kind of deck it is but it comes in a small sturdy black box with silver foil wrap. If I recall correctly, it states that a book with a huge number of tricks is included. It didn't look like they were selling very well that day from what I could see. People seemed to prefer posters and t-shirts.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby AJM » April 10th, 2016, 12:06 pm

Did anyone ever try out the P&T phone app?

Re. Show merchandise - with the exception of programmes and tour books (which, for London shows a few years back, the tour book was essentially the Rio book with a 'tour sticker' over the Rio logo) and the odd deck of cards / t-shirt there doesn't appear to be all that much available from P&T.

Quite unusual these days, where most performers are happy to squeeze out every last buck from the paying customer.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 10th, 2016, 12:11 pm

I just asked my wife and she doesn't remember any t-shirts so I stand corrected! Oops...

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Brad Henderson » April 10th, 2016, 1:09 pm

american buyers (meaning the buyers for the distributors and stores) want the 'hundred of tricks' in a box. They see it as a matter of value per inch of shelf space. I spent a few years working with a company that does magic kits. all product choices are dictated by the distributors/stores. The customers experience is irrelvant to those decision makers. They want hundreds of tricks in a box with a great cover.

The fantasma video tape/DVD referenced earlier was produced for them by the then very young Adam Rubin. He is a magician who has written several pieces for the magazines, including the story on Mark Setteducatti, and has a couple of childrens books on the market. His most recent - robosauce - is a book that transforms into a robot.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Tom Gilbert » April 11th, 2016, 7:33 am

Just curious, as I have no idea. Are shirts and hats and other items big money makers for a magic show? I can imagine they are for big rock shows, but a magic show isn't as big. Seems like a lot of work to move all that stuff around.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Tom Moore » April 11th, 2016, 10:23 am

Shirts / Hats / Bag's cost around $1 to make when you're buying in volume, yet will sell for $20 and up. In one normal suitcase you'd get several hundred of each of them - these sorts of merchandise items are considerably more profitable & practical than magic sets as a merchandise item
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 11th, 2016, 11:34 am

People can wear t shirts--it helps to justify the expense.
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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Jack Shalom » April 11th, 2016, 6:34 pm

I.M. Magician wrote:I just asked my wife and she doesn't remember any t-shirts so I stand corrected! Oops...


At P&T's last NYC B'way outing, I did indeed buy a "Palm, Ditch, Steal" T-shirt.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby I.M. Magician » April 11th, 2016, 6:43 pm

Aha, I was correct! I thought I saw those and don't think that the hardening of the arteries set in yet.

Thank you for confirming that Jack. I think it's safe to say that my wife wasn't as interested in what they were selling as I was so she is excused. ;)

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby P.T.Widdle » April 30th, 2016, 3:50 pm

I've been playing around with Penn & Teller's new magic set for a couple of days, both on my own and with my nine year-old son.

As a P&T fan, I'm pretty much disappointed in the set. I wasn't expecting a total re-imagining of the magic set premise (although when I first heard they were doing a set I was hoping so), but I thought there would be a discernible P&T spin on it. After all, their books were off the hook!

The first disappointment is the DVD. Penn and Teller do less than a one minute introduction in what appears to be a room with the audio equivalent of being a bathroom. It looks like it was rushed, and it wasn't funny or interesting. Only the solid magic props are demonstrated (not the many punch-out tricks) by some headless, nameless magician. And the demos are very plain and quick. The "performance" of the rising wand takes less than a second. On Penn's podcast, he mumbled something about being able to see Teller perform the tricks online at some point. But there is no link or slip of paper for buyers of the current version of the set promising this.

The magic props are all standard stuff, except a few clever punch-out tricks, one of which I cannot see any child ever using (the photo of the hand is adult size).

So that leaves the eagerly-anticipated instruction booklet written by Teller (with input from Penn). The booklet covers the props and punch-outs. There is a separate booklet for 125 card tricks written by Francis Marshal in 1976, with an introduction that still includes a reference to doing magic in bars. And, as Richard Kaufman has already pointed out, the set does not even include a deck of cards for these 125 tricks.

Teller's booklet is solid. It's definitely better than other magic set instruction booklets. It has little witticisms, some good tips and in-the-know references to Johnny Thompson and Irene Larsen. In addition to the set tricks, the booklet also contains some favorite impromptu tricks, and tricks with everyday objects. There are not many illustrations. Those of you looking for a Teller spin on old classics will be disappointed. For example the Ball and Vase and Genii Bottle are simple, standard routines.The same goes for the Money Machine, paddle trick, Penetration Frame, and even the cups and balls.

In the intro of the booklet, P&T write that the tricks in the kit are ones they used as kids. I think they missed a real opportunity to expand on that premise. In only one instance is there a little note at the beginning of the spongeball instructions explaining that Teller did a version of this trick from age 12-22. I would have liked to have seen more of that. Maybe they simply didn't have the stories or couldn't remember.

Not that any children who use this kit would care about P&T when they were kids. The kit isn't for adults, after all. That said, my son wasn't particularly excited about the contents after the initial viewing (I've never given him a magic set before). And the instruction booklets don't seem too inviting to kids to read, especially with the paucity of illustrations (Marshal's booklet just seems out of place).

I understand P&T will be performing tricks from this set on an upcoming Tonight Show appearance this summer. I'm sure that will be more fun and interesting than this letdown of a magic set.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby observer » April 30th, 2016, 4:43 pm

P.T.Widdle wrote:
<>
my son wasn't particularly excited about the contents after the initial viewing (I've never given him a magic set before). And the instruction booklets don't seem too inviting to kids to read, especially with the paucity of illustrations (Marshal's booklet just seems out of place).

I understand P&T will be performing tricks from this set on an upcoming Tonight Show appearance this summer. I'm sure that will be more fun and interesting than this letdown of a magic set.



And it will sell a couple of carloads of the set, too! It's a win/ ... uh, thing.

Doesn't one of their books start off with an anecdote about being scammed by a magic dealer as a kid?

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Bill Marquardt » April 30th, 2016, 6:52 pm

Some years ago, as an adult who should know better, I purchased online a "professional" magic kit based on the description. After receiving it, I discovered that the cheapness of the included items was appalling. Most of the items were thin plastic similar to what one might find in a novelty shop. One or two were acceptable such as the coin in nest of boxes. No way was the set professional, as advertised.

To his credit, the store owner offered a full refund and removed the item from his site. I do not know how the P&T set compares, but it has to be better than that one.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby P.T.Widdle » April 30th, 2016, 7:38 pm

Bill Marquardt wrote: I do not know how the P&T set compares, but it has to be better than that one.


It's the not worst set in the world. It's just average, which is a disappointment I guess because it's P&T. I was hoping they could pull off a "Pee-Wee's Playhouse," where it was fun for kids and adults. But it seems to have failed for each. Like I mentioned, the premise of "tricks we used as kids" held promise, but fell flat I think. And I wonder how many kids really know who P&T are anyway, to be excited about a magic set from them.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 15th, 2016, 7:43 pm

Penn & Teller's magic set is now available on Amazon. I'll be curious to see the reviews.

On a side note, I brought the magic set to one of my 4th grade after-school magic clubs for an "unboxing." I made copies of the instructions for each of the props and punch-out tricks. The kids had fun grabbing a trick, trying it out, and "trading" them. They showed no interest at all in the DVD. Overall, a pretty successful and economical use of one magic set for many students. However, I'll be using another magic set the next time I try it.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Joe Mckay » May 15th, 2016, 8:10 pm

Thanks for your excellent review earlier in the thread.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 19th, 2016, 8:26 am

Good news: Penn and Teller are shooting "additional video instructions" (Teller's words) featuring themselves demonstrating the tricks. Penn says, "We're the first guys to do our own demos."
I seem to remember Mac King doing his own demos for his magic kit.

I'm wondering how people who have already bought the kit (with that horrible DVD of the headless, nameless magician), are going to get these new P&T video instructions.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby performer » May 19th, 2016, 9:48 am

How very amusing! When people buy magic from me the concept of value for money is furthest from my mind! In fact I don't think I would be able to sleep at night if I found that people were happy with what I sold them. I would feel as if I had done something wrong somewhere. I suppose if I were famous and had my name on the box I would have to take a different attitude but in the past I would take great pride that any magic kits I sold had incomprehensible instructions and poor quality props thus protecting the secrets of magic. I really should have been given some sort of award from the Magic Castle for services to magic.

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Re: New P&T Magic Set

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 19th, 2016, 10:40 am

They will be made available to download for those who already purchased the set.
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