Expert Card Technique

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Sebastian B
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Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon/René Lavand

Expert Card Technique

Postby Sebastian B » August 6th, 2015, 5:42 am

I have been reading the ECT (Expert Card Technique) recently and must say that i find it to be an excellent book. I am certainly aware of the controversy surrounding the book regarding the crediting and use of material. I am also aware of that Charlie Miller was involved in ECT in some way or another, does anyone know to what extent Miller was involved in ECT?
Last edited by Sebastian B on August 6th, 2015, 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thomas Van Aken
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby Thomas Van Aken » August 6th, 2015, 7:28 am

Hello,

There are a lot of peoples on this forum that more qualified than I to contribute to this topic but here is what I understand from my readings:

1. There is more items in ETC credited to Charlie Miller than to anybody else but it is possible that items not credited to anybody also belong to Miller.
2. Part of the items credited to Charlie Miller have to be credited to Dai Vernon who share them in private with Miller.
3. Some or all of Vernon/Miller's items were not given to Frederick Braue for publishing but showed repetitively at Braue request by Miller to a point that Braue was able to reconstruct a possible handling and describes them in the book with credit to Miller.

Hope it help.

Th.

Sebastian B
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Joined: August 5th, 2014, 4:00 am
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon/René Lavand

Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby Sebastian B » August 6th, 2015, 8:13 am

Thank you for the response Mr Van Aken. According to Harry Riser (Secrets of an Escamoteur, page: 21-23) the double lift in chapter 1 of ECT should have been credited to Miller)
Last edited by Sebastian B on August 6th, 2015, 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sebastian B
Posts: 69
Joined: August 5th, 2014, 4:00 am
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon/René Lavand

Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby Sebastian B » August 6th, 2015, 8:40 am

An interesting thing I have found in one of my readings of the ECT (has nothing to do with Miller) is in chapter 6 - False shuffles - page 70 in the Faber & Faber edition of the book, if you read Gamblers false shuffle (notice the principle of that shuffle). Turn to page 76 and read Off the table false riffle shuffle (notice the principle of that shuffle). If you combine the principles of each of those two shuffles you basically arrive at the Zarrow shuffle.

performer
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby performer » August 7th, 2015, 11:39 pm

I think I would prefer to know who wrote that fantastic section on presentation in the back of the book. Was it Braue or Hugard? Or both? I have never come across better advice on the presentation of close up magic (platform too, now that I think about it) anywhere in the literature.

Sebastian B
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Joined: August 5th, 2014, 4:00 am
Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon/René Lavand

Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby Sebastian B » August 8th, 2015, 7:10 am

I was listening to the Magic newswire, the Charlie Miller episode, where Johnny Thompson, Harry Riser and Bob White talks about Charlie Miller. In this episode they talk about everything about Miller, among other things they talk about Miller and his involment in ECT. According to Riser and Thompson, Miller was responsible for 40-45% of the content in ECT. Charlie Miller was responsible for the Faro section, all of the Malini, McMillen and Merlin material and most of the anonymous material in the ECT.

richarddylan268
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby richarddylan268 » October 19th, 2015, 6:58 am

I was heard about this from many of my friends and I think that is an interesting topic to read. I'll try to read this book

performer
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby performer » October 19th, 2015, 7:35 am

When I first got the book I couldn't do a single trick in it. Quite frankly it was far too advanced for me as I was a beginner at the time. It was like advanced physics to me. Come to think of it I only do four tricks out of the book even now!

I got far more out of the Royal Road to Card Magic by the same authors. Probably around 50% of my card trick repertoire comes from this book alone.

But it doesn't matter if you throw the whole book away. It is the presentation section at the book that will make you a great magician, particularly the first few pages of that section. The rest of the book will just make you an introverted hobbyist. You need the section at the back far more than you need the bulk of the book.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 19th, 2015, 7:59 am

How do you feel H&B improve upon Robert-Houdin's guidance about performing?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

performer
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby performer » October 19th, 2015, 8:10 am

You will have to tell me what Robert-Houdin actually said about peforming first! The only thing I know about him is that he didn't approve of flourishes. If he was around nowadays he would probably have a heart attack!

Incidentally the famous phrase about a magician being an actor playing the part of a magician has always been taken out of context and given a meaning that wasn't intended in the first place. In actual fact he wasn't talking about acting at all. He was expressing great irritation at card flourishes. I am surprised there were any in those days, mind you.

In my capacity as a psychic reverend and holy man of the cloth I have just been in touch with him and he informs me that he is turning in his grave at all the flourishy goings on nowadays.

Rick Franceschin
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby Rick Franceschin » November 3rd, 2015, 9:46 pm

The CARD MANIPULATION SERIES, MIRACLE METHODS SERIES, ROYAL ROAD TO MAGIC, EXPERT CARD TECHNIQUE, and SHOW STOPPERS WITH CARDS together offer a dynamic record of the trends and accomplishments of early twentieth century card magic. While some of the work in EXPERT CARD TECHNIQUE has been overshadowed by modern accomplishments, the best material remains relevant and in some cases unequalled. The Double Lift, Strike Second Deal, Invisible Turnover Pass, Strip-Out False Shuffle, Fadeaway Card Change, Single Card Bridge, Rear Palm, The Zingone Spread, A Rosi-Crucian Mystery, Predestined Choice, Merlin’s Lost Aces, The Card in Shoe, Danbury Deviler, Danbury Delusion, Rossini Think a Card, The Seventh Son, and the Vernon / Daley sections are among some of the best items in the book.
You mentioned that the book is often seen as a controversial work. Charlie Miller, Jack McMillen, and Dai Vernon often being sighted as victims of stolen or uncredited material. Moreover, ECT is ripe for this type of speculation as there are more uncredited pieces than credited. Some claim Charlie Miller to have been responsible for about half the book’s content. In his Genii column Magicana (New Series – Number 51) Charlie Miller wrote, “No, I had little to do with this book (ECT.) I did contribute some stuff and I did help Fred on a few things, but probably less than 5%.” Jack McMillen is fully credited three times, even when one of the descriptions was a Braue handling of one of his pieces. McMillen sometimes worked with Braue on his writing projects, particularly the Card Manipulation Series, and so it’s difficult to say what he felt deserved crediting. In terms of Vernon, there are at least two items which are morose, if not half baked, attempts at duplicating the concepts of his effects. The Migratory Aces tries to duplicate Vernon’s The Travelers and Boy Meets Girl is a watered down, rated G, attempt at Vernon’s saucy The Loving Couple. Somehow, Vernon’s aggravation over his pilfered material was resolved with him contributing a chapter to a subsequent edition of the book. That story has never really made a whole lot of sense to me. There’s no question that Hugard and Braue did a terrible job of managing a responsible record of the material and likely included things they may never have been given permission to use, but all of this is heavily shrouded in speculation.
Overall, I believe ECT is a really worthwhile study and an eminently important record of our craft. Fred Kaps, Arturo de Ascanio, and Juan Tamariz all expressed their enthusiasm for it. In fact, Edward Marlo loved it so much that he included three things from it in his booklet, OFF THE TOP, though he did neglect to credit the original source.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 3rd, 2015, 11:25 pm

ECT was a great book to find in Dover edition back when... as was the Hofzinser book.

I was hoping Paul Chosse and others would have gotten an annotated version of ECT done by now but maybe it's best to let the matter(s) go with that generation as folks have Card College to mull over now.

Did anyone ask Ponsin to write up their latest tricks?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Rick Franceschin
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby Rick Franceschin » November 4th, 2015, 6:05 pm

I'm not sure that Card College replaces ECT, but rather it eclipses the Royal Road to Card magic. Through ECT you experience Miller, Zingone, Rosini, among many others. It offers a survey of early 20th century Card magic as well as the prevailing mindset at the time. Anyone who has traveled Card College well is equipt to enjoy and appreciate ECT.

performer
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Re: Expert Card Technique

Postby performer » November 4th, 2015, 11:35 pm

I don't think it eclipses the Royal Road to Card Magic at all. Card College is too large a read for a start. Besides it is too intellectual and somewhat dull reading from what I have seen of it. The presentation advice is not as good as the Royal Road either. Of course I am terribly biased since 50 percent of my repertoire comes from the Royal Road.


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