Identify this gimmick

[John Carney]

Hello all,
I collect little hand gimmicks. Some are custom, one-off things and I can't figure out their function.

This gimmick looks like it was professionally made (or cast?), not a slapped together by a duffer like me. My first guess, seconded by our moderator Dustin, is that it is to conceal a billet, or folded bill...but it is much more conspicuous than simple palming, and really would seem superfluous in this context. What does it take to finger palm a billet? Also, the band that holds it on the finger is rather large, and seems easy to see, even from the stage. The ring is set at an angle to the clip (left, right handed?)

If anyone has a theory, or might know for sure, I'd be curious to know. Here are links to photos:

http://members.cox.net/geniidustin/jc001.jpg

http://members.cox.net/geniidustin/jc002.jpg

http://members.cox.net/geniidustin/jc003.jpg

thanks for any thoughts.

best,
carney


Here are Dustin's thoughts:

Your thought about it being used for a billet switch is actually is a very good one. While you and I know that sleight of hand is actually more expedient and easier, people like Kellar simply didnt think like that. He had a mental block for most (if not all) sleight of hand and had little gizmos like this made all the time, even for something that we might think as simple.

Im not saying that this is a Kellar piece, but it certainly could have been made by or for someone who thought like him. This thing would allow him to palm something while still moving the fingers and not worry about palming.

The fact that it is two sided tells me that the user wanted to slip it on his finger while his hand was in his pocket and it wouldnt matter from which side the finger went into the ring.

If thats the case, the thing was probably empty when it went on the hand. That means whatever it held probably went into it while in play.

It looks like the ring is set at an angle to the clip; is this accurate? If so, this tells me that this thing was designed for one hand and not the other. (Is a billet set in place angled more toward the center of the hand?)

[Pete Biro]

It looks like eomethin my Dr. used for a prostate exam.

Seriously... not sure, but I something LIKE IT used to light a match. There was striking material on the large section. But maybe this one didn't have anything on it?

[Andrew Martin Portala]

This might be it?
I got this in Illustrated magic by Ottokar Fischer.Chapter 5 Fakes,Gimmicks and other secert accessories.On page 76 gimmick No.21 It a fake for the production of a real cigar.Maybe?

[Jonathan Townsend]

Originally posted by Andrew Martin Portala:
This might be it?
I got this in Illustrated magic by Ottokar Fischer.Chapter 5 Fakes,Gimmicks and other secert accessories.On page 76 gimmick No.21 It a fake for the production of a real cigar.Maybe?

That gaff appears similar though looking at the picture - IMHO has larger flanges which are more curved. Perhaps the gaff was intended to facilitate back palming something flatter - say a stack of cards?

[castawaydave]

Purely brainstorming:
The photos remind me of several Jay Sankey routines using a thumbtip (i.e., where the gimmick could be used the way a thumbtip is--hiding something until needed--including your idea of a billet switch [or fortune-cookie fortune--but I don't want to get in trouble with Jay by unauthorizededly tipping things]...), and another wherein he uses a finger ring (effecting vanishes).

[John Carney]

thanks for the ideas, guys.......Interesting thoughts....

Its probably the simplest and most obvious, billets or bills. But it just seems so unnecessary.

Pete........I have another gimmick for lighting matches that is great.......but this doesn't seem to be for that purpose.

I love the Ottokar Fischer book, and in particular, those pages with the pictures of the gimmicks......like out of a James Bond story.

If the outside of the gimmick were concave it could hold a cigar on the outside, but then it wouldn't fit on your finger.

To facilitate back palming cards is intriguing, but not sure how the cards would attach....clipped under one end?...then, it would seem like the ring part would not be in the middle, but on the end......hhhhhhmmmmmm

This gimmick would be a bit more practical if the band on the finger were thin wire that you wouldn't notice......but that band would be seen even in gaslight from 50 yards.

Maybe the answer is as simple as Dustin suggested....a gimmick for someone without the nerve to just finger palm a billet.......for a torn and restored effect, or to switch in a billet.......simple palming or a thumb tip seem to be a much better method....... Simple, invisible, and one less thing to keep track of when you perform.

But I guess you can't SELL finger palming.......or can you?....wait, I can see the next DVD.....

From the research team that built the "breather crimp", comes........ the "ninja stealth billet palmer!"

Its awesome, extreme, in your face....... and your parents won't like it!!!

[David Alexander]

Since I can't see if this will fit a thumb, I'm wondering if it does, perhaps it was used on the thumb to push something that would otherwise adversely affect the ball of the thumb...a sort of "armor" for the ball of the thumb.

I know a little bit about billets and this sort of thing, on a finger, would make handling the billet rather clumsy and inelegant.

[castawaydave]

I did not explain what I was picturing very well at all--I pictured the device on a finger, not the thumb.

--Rather its use as a secret hiding place for something to be produced was what reminded me of a few Mr. Sankey's tricks with thumb tips.

[John Carney]

David,
good thoughts.....I had tried the gimmick on my thumb, but not until you mentioned it again had I considered the advantage over a thumb tip ....... having it on the thumb.

On the thumb, the ring portion is away from the audience.....an important point. The gimmick has a curve cut out of each end, which neatly fits into the base of the thumb and the first joint of the thumb (this would also work on the joints of the middle finger).

The advantage over the thumb tip for switching billets is that the top, not being enclosed like a tip, allows one billet to come out and the other to be loaded without removing the gimmick. A smooth technique to do this however, eludes me.......and again, it would seem simple palming would serve better.

However, the gimmick is much more practical and invisible on the thumb.....so this is a good theory.

thanks for thinking about it.

[David Alexander]

John,

Better than a gimmick for switching billets, this gimmick suggests a way of holding the papers for the T&R Cigarette Paper, done at some middle distance, perhaps.

You might also experiment with a dab of wax on the device's surface instead of the usual on the thumb nail.

[Bo Jonsson]

If the gimmick fits on the thumb, this might be a gimmick for the thumb tie. Harries in Sweden earlier sold something similar for the thumb tie.

When you cross your thumbs, the gimmick shall be on the lower thumb with the big flat side of the gimmick on the lower side.

You can let a spectator tie a ribbon very tight around your thumbs and around the gimmick and then withdraw and replace the lower thumb from the gimmick.

[DocDixon]

If it slides easily on a cigar and disguised with a label, it could be used make it look like a cigar is being pushed into something, like the cigarette up the nose gag.

I doubt that's what it was made for, but if you're looking for a reason to make cigars a business expense, there you go ...

DD

[John Carney]

wow......it never occurred to me that this could be for the thumb tie. Even if that is not the purpose, it is a good use for it!

thanks,
carney

[Andy Galloway]

John, A fellow conjuror here in Ayr demonstrated an identical gimmick for me over forty years ago for the Thumb Tie
Regards, Andy.

[John Carney]

Andy,
Wonderful to hear from you. I hope to come to Scotland for some lectures sometime this year, and to have another visit with you and Gordon.

We seem to be onto something with this thumb tie idea. It seems like one of the most likely uses for the gimmick.

I wonder if there is a published source for this?

One of the things that tough about learning the thumb tie, is the problem of how to tie your own thumbs to rehearse!

thanks again,

all the best,
carney

[Dustin Stinett]

This just in from Clay Shevlin who checked with Dr. Eddie Dawes:

According to Eddie Dawes, its a thumb tie gimmick.

Clay Shevlin
Meminisse Magicam

[AJM]

Ahem, Professor Edwin A Dawes actually.

:)

Yours pedantically

Andrew

[John Carney]

Thanks very much Clay and Dustin.

Does the Professor have any print references? Now that I've played with it as a thumb tie gimmick, I'm curious to find handling and tips.

all the best,
carney

[sleightly]

Hey John:

This gimmick is clearly illustrated and described in Max Andrews' Sixteen Thumb Tie Gems on pages 34-36.

Andrew

[Pete Biro]

Isn't the internet amazing?

[Dustin Stinett]

The Genii Forum comes through again!

For Pedantic Andrew:

No disrespect intended. Here in the Colonies we call folks with doctorates Doctor out of respect. Your Professor is our Doctor. I have addressed him as Dr. Dawes and hes never corrected me. Unless it was to say, Call me Eddie. :)

Dustin

[Andrew Martin Portala]

wow ! Thumb Tie but why?

[Dustin Stinett]

At first I was kind of wondering that myself, but the more I think about it, the more I get the practicality of it.

If you hold your hands properly while using this gimmick, it will be invisible to a volunteer and that person can tie your thumbs together with string using any kind or number of knots they want; a very clever gimmick indeed.

Dustin

[John Carney]

well done gentlemen!

I think with Andrew's reference to Thumb Tie Gems, this is no longer a theory, it is definitely a thumb tie gimmick. No mistaking that illustration.

I am very partial to Irv Weiner's Red Tape Thumb Tie, as being very practical and mysterious. I've read his manuscript, but have never seen his gimmick, which is not illustrated and is only referred to as a "thin ring"...

(by the way, does anyone know.....is Irv's gimmick just a wide wedding band type ring, or a short tube?)

....Red tape is easy to see from the stage, and everyone knows the difficulty one would have, slipping in and out of that sticky tape.

In Irv's routine, the tape on the thumb completely hides his gimmick...... unlike the gimmick of my inquiry.....which, using cord, might be slightly more difficult to conceal...the most difficult time being when the thumbs are being tied.....but as it mentions in Max Andrews little book, many have used it with success, so it must be practical.

My thanks to all for your input........the Genii forum is indeed a great resource......I'm grateful for for this great tool and the help of the posters.

Any other thoughts on Irv's routine or how to use this particular gimmick?

[Mitch Dutton]

I just received Geoffrey Durham's book, Professional Secrets (a FABULOUS book btw) and he alludes to "the Great Masoni's beautiful little prop for the trick, formerly sold by Supreme..." Could this be one of the Masoni gimmicks?

I also use the Red Tape Thumb Tie and have found that using part of a red Fantasio candle makes a perfect gaff, matches the color of the tape perfectly and adds practically no thickness to the tape around the thumb! - Mitch

[John Carney]

Mitch,

thanks......I bought this gimmick out of a shoe box at a dealer booth.........so did not have instructions or any clue what it was.

Nice tip with the candle plastic and the Weiner tie......I'll check it out.

best,
carney

[MaxNY]

Well if you got it out of a shoebox, then it's a bunion protector for the big toe.

[Geoffrey Durham]

I've only just caught up with this thread, and I'm afraid I can't shed any more light on these gimmicks. But I can at least explain what I meant by The Great Masoni reference in my book, Mitch. (And thank you for your kind remarks.)

The Great Masoni was a fairly well-known stage magician who worked in the UK in the 40s and 50s. His real name was Eric Mason, but he wasn't the same Eric Mason who invented the Boon Writer and other marvels in the 60s and 70s.

I never saw Masoni work, but I bought his Thumb Tie gimmick from Supreme some time in the late 70s. It was just a gold wedding ring (actually polished brass, I think) with a little hook attached to it. It was worn with the hook near the palm. I'll leave you to work out the rest.

I've always been surprised that it never caught on with magicians. It's bold and it really works.

[Tom Ladshaw]

Originally posted by Geoffrey Durham:


The Great Masoni was a fairly well-known stage magician who worked in the UK in the 40s and 50s.

And he has a wonderful cameo in the classic Ealing Studios comedy, "Passport to Pimlico". He's not the only reason to watch this charming little film...practically every well-known British character actor of that period is in it...including the always watchable Margaret Rutherford.
Sorry to ramble...I like old British comedies...what can I say?