Talent or Image?

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smokemist
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Talent or Image?

Postby smokemist » December 31st, 2009, 8:09 am

I have noticed something about a few magicians & other unrelated poeple, such as athletes, etc that something, has/is happening.

Ex: Anna Kournikova ( a hot tennis star ) who, to my knowledge, has never won a grand slam, was one of the most famous tennis stars... Due to her tennis ability? I think not.. Due to her hotness... I think yes.
Ever hear of Lindsay Davenport, who won at least 3 Grand Slams, or Kim Clijsters ?

It appears to me, not just in sports & numerous other things, like magic: sometimes Image is more important than ability. In terms of bookings, popularity, etc..


I do not wish to name any names, but I have seen "original magic" performed by some notible names, where I & the audience thought the magic was ...lackluster. But, these same magis are praised by all.. Does originality and a cool image = a great magician or great magic? I don't think it does.

But, once the reputaion is built & the fans are made, it seems the "success" follows. Is it undeserved? That's for everyone to judge..

Thankfully, I don't see it happen a lot in magic, but I do see it.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 31st, 2009, 10:19 am

Your post has no meaning unless you put some names to it, and since you're posting anonymously, I don't see what the problem is.
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smokemist
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby smokemist » December 31st, 2009, 2:53 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Your post has no meaning unless you put some names to it, and since you're posting anonymously, I don't see what the problem is.


I meant the post to envoke some individual thinking among fellow magis.. Maybe this will stir up some ideas of people who may fit into this category for them.

I thought this post would have a few more replies..

Perhaps you agree with the original post, Mr. Kaufman..

David Alexander
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby David Alexander » December 31st, 2009, 3:40 pm

"Praised by all..." is not necessarily true. There is a large difference between amateur magic and show business.

Please define your terms.

Glenn Bishop
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Glenn Bishop » December 31st, 2009, 5:47 pm

In my opinion and I am talking about magic as a part of show business. Image and talent is part of the overall package. If we were talking about Jack Pyle - he "looked" the part of a magician and a magician card sharp. On the stage he did magic - at the card - close up table he did card magic and bridge and poker deals.

He looked the part - acted the part and played the part and in my opinion he was the part he played - in real life.

I am not going to say that magicians in those days had "fans" because in those days magic was or a magic act was a supporting act to a larger star.

Much like Channing Pollock performing as one of the acts in the live touring or Las Vegas show of Liberace.

Looking the part - being the part - or whatever is part of the overall package. However in my opinion - getting there is one thing - and staying there is another. In my opinion it takes talent - real talent to get to the top.

But also in my opinion it takes real talent - lots of real talent to stay on top - once the performer gets there. And often the performer may have to reinvent himself or herself changing their image (several times over the years) to keep up with the times and the ever changing world of modern show business.

Just my opinion!

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smokemist
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby smokemist » January 1st, 2010, 1:58 am

Nice feedback Glenn..

I agree that image is surely part of the package.. But, I hope the talent is stronger than the image.

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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Terry » January 1st, 2010, 4:44 pm

In today's marketing driven world, image is everything.

If you don't have the right look, they can't sell you. How else would a no talent individual like Paris Hilton become famous?

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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 1st, 2010, 7:08 pm

Sex tape.
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smokemist
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby smokemist » January 2nd, 2010, 12:55 am

Terry wrote:In today's marketing driven world, image is everything.

If you don't have the right look, they can't sell you. How else would a no talent individual like Paris Hilton become famous?



Possibly the best example so far.

Depressing isn't it...

Terry
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Terry » January 2nd, 2010, 9:29 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Sex tape.


I've heard she spends most of the time screaming out her own name. Talk about shameless self-promotion. . . .

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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Glenn Bishop » January 2nd, 2010, 11:47 am

From my point of view - there is no such thing as shameless self-promotion.

Also from my understanding promotion is part of advertising. Magicians and other people in show business make a living by promoting and advertising. Without it there would be little business.

In my opinion self promotion only is called shameless is when one gets tired of it.

From my point of view Self promotion is an art - I admire the magicians in magic that did it well - Like Houdini - Scarne - Calvert and many more.

Just my opinion.

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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby DrDanny » January 2nd, 2010, 12:16 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Sex tape.


Oh jeez...that conjures up disturbing images of Cris Angel....

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 2nd, 2010, 12:20 pm

Glenn, considering that you feel there's no such thing as shameless self promotion, I'm expecting you to announce your sex tape any day. Not looking forward to it, mind you, just expecting it.
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby David Oliver » January 2nd, 2010, 1:45 pm

Sex tapes... Magicians.... Genii.... I am SOOOO thankful I review tricks and not the incoming DVDs!
- DO

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 2nd, 2010, 2:07 pm

While I'm impatiently waiting for those DVDs....(but not Glenn's...I've got his) :)

Bill Duncan
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Bill Duncan » January 2nd, 2010, 4:02 pm

Terry wrote:In today's marketing driven world, image is everything.

If you don't have the right look, they can't sell you. How else would a no talent individual like Paris Hilton become famous?

Yeah... like that Ricky Jay guy. He's all tight pants, a pretty face, and gaffed cards.

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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Glenn Bishop » January 2nd, 2010, 5:44 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Glenn, considering that you feel there's no such thing as shameless self promotion, I'm expecting you to announce your sex tape any day. Not looking forward to it, mind you, just expecting it.


Yikes - that would be shameless!!! I also don't do that kind of material - even if it might have sold better.

Dustin Stinett wrote:While I'm impatiently waiting for those DVDs....(but not Glenn's...I've got his) :)


I think I sent a set to Richard as well - hope you-all got one or two ideas you could use.

Happy Holidays.

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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby John Archer » January 2nd, 2010, 10:03 pm

There was a secret sex tape made of me.... but does that hit the papers. Pah!

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Dustin Stinett » January 2nd, 2010, 11:00 pm

Can I get a copy?

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smokemist
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby smokemist » January 4th, 2010, 12:34 am

yes, seeing guys like Rick Jay is encouraging.. That appears to be talent overshadowing image.

..not to mention Susan Boyle & Paul Potts... sometimes when the Image does not at all match the Talent, it's Very interesting indeed!

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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Richard Perrin » January 4th, 2010, 6:03 pm

John Archer wrote:There was a secret sex tape made of me.... but does that hit the papers. Pah!


Pah? Deaf people use this in sign lanuage in US as "finally/ at last/ about time". Just wondering... how did you get this word?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 4th, 2010, 8:39 pm

PAH has many meanings (the following list from WikiPedia):

PAH or Pah may refer to:

In chemistry and biology:

Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon, one of a class of chemical compounds, organic pollutants
Phenylalanine hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in breaking down phenylalanine
Para-aminohippurate, a substance used in the measurement of blood flow in the kidneys
Pulmonary arterial hypertension, a condition of elevated blood pressure in the pulmonary artery
Primary alveolar hypoventilation, a condition of inadequate air movement in the lungs
PAH world hypothesis, hypothesis that proposes that the use of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon was a means for the origin of life
Poly(allylamine hydrochloride), Polyelectrolyte
PAH clearance, para-aminohippuric acid clearance as a measurement of renal plasma flow
Polyanhydrides, a class of biodegradable polymers
In fiction:

Pah, the lunar deity in Pawnee mythology
Pah Wraith, evil Bajoran Prophets in the fictional Star Trek universe
Other:

Pan-American Highway, Americas
PAH, the IATA airport code for Barkley Regional Airport in Paducah, Kentucky, USA
Another spelling for Pa (Māori), word meaning a fortified village or redoubt
An onomatopoeic word for a noise of disgust
Project Affected Homes (World Bank term)

BUT what I think John means is this one:
An onomatopoeic word for a noise of disgust
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Terry
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Terry » January 4th, 2010, 10:34 pm

Bill Duncan wrote:Yeah... like that Ricky Jay guy. He's all tight pants, a pretty face, and gaffed cards.


Bill, if we are talking solely about magic, yes there are talented and successful people just as there are successes due to their image.

The problem begins when reality doesn't support the image, i.e. Believe w/ C.A.

John Archer
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby John Archer » January 5th, 2010, 3:36 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:PAH has many meanings (the following list from WikiPedia):
.......

BUT what I think John means is this one:
An onomatopoeic word for a noise of disgust



Indeed Richard. Thanks.... I often use Pfft too.

Richard Perrin
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Re: Talent or Image?

Postby Richard Perrin » January 5th, 2010, 4:25 pm

Thank you, Richard. You're the man!


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