Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

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Hannes Freytag
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Hannes Freytag » October 9th, 2009, 4:44 am

Tom Bennett wrote:
Chris Deleo wrote:Tommy Wonder published an okito box routine. Really nice piece of magic.

I remember learning it thinking it was almost like theater, the way it was constructed.


Does anybody know where he published it? I'm pretty sure that it's not in the books of wonder!


the Routine of Tommy Wonder is published in his books and on the video tapes (as far as i can remember called "coins across and back with interlude")
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Denis Behr » October 9th, 2009, 4:49 am

That's right. Here it is.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jim Riser » October 19th, 2009, 10:34 pm

What is the Okito Box? Here's my view on this question:

http://www.jamesriser.com/ManInMaze/PillBox.html

There is a lot of running without being chased going on regarding this prop.
Jim

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Tom Bennett » October 20th, 2009, 1:55 am

Couldn't agree more with Jim. There is so much stuff out there for normal people that alomost nobody really wonders about anything anymore.
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 20th, 2009, 8:55 am

I'm cool wiht the dainty salt dish or sweetner container for the table... but when one pretends to carry coins in it and in ones pocket too... just stretches credulity.

Jim - any takers for an inset version of the ball vase shell gaff (rim with coin sits on box rim) ? Seems a natural for the coin guys to treat the coinbox as a ball vase and makes for one heck of all-at-once appear/vanish/transform method with no turnovers required. The sleight of hand crowd will likely intuit the edge grip options where the gaff and coins get moved and a classic palm of the gaff can make almost visual magic of it.

:)
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jim Riser » October 20th, 2009, 12:00 pm

Jon;
Who says that the coins need to be carried in a metal pill box? All a performer needs to do is bring out the "pill box", dump a couple pills from it, perhaps do a pill effect, say something to the effect that "by the way I discovered that half dollars just fit this pill box", then move on with the coin effects.

The coin type of "ball vase shell" idea is doable but would require a specially made side grooved box to help conceal the extra shell. The box lid could be engraved as mentioned in my earlier post. Cute idea, Jon. I wonder how many people would be interested in such a toy. From a manufacturing standpoint, my only concerns would be the coin used. Some guys use the clad coins and others use the older silver coins - so the best way to make the shell would be as an "empty" into which the performer fixes a coin to match the others.

Jon, I have a couple ideas about the construction of such a gimmick that we could discuss by email. I'm concerned about the practical application of your idea.

Anyone interested in Jon's idea? If there is enough interest, we could make up a number of these with full credit and royalties going to Jon.
Jim

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 20th, 2009, 12:24 pm

Thanks Jim,

I believe there is/was such a gaff on the market back in the early 1980s though not with the modern magnetic and fine machining available today. I recall seeing it at Tannen's and also noticed the thing was not being explored by my peers back then.

As an alternative to the turnover based work ... well there's a reason the ball and vase is a classic.

Will email to follow up after work. :)
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Bob Farmer » October 20th, 2009, 2:17 pm

I designed just such a coin box several years ago. The box had ridges to conceal the gaff. The gaff could go either on top of the box -- where it would make the box appear to be full of coins -- or it could be stowed on the bottom of the box, so the box looked empty. Or it could be inverted on the bottom of the box, so the box could be used like a Boston box. Or it could be stolen so the box could be examined.

I'll have to dig it out and send it to Jim.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Bob Farmer » October 20th, 2009, 5:29 pm

I just found my notes and the diagrams for this -- it dates from 1998.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 20th, 2009, 5:38 pm

Bob, the box I saw at Tannen's was around 1978.
As best I recall the gaff lip just extended over the rim and the lid was shallow so one could lift both. Nothing fancy with ridges or magnets.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jim Riser » October 20th, 2009, 7:12 pm

Guys, Bob's idea is along my lines of thinking and definitely doable. Jon, In the mid 1960's I published another specialized type of box in The Linking Ring. I have no idea of the date as I cut my contributions to that month's Parade out and had them bound along with a number of other articles from a collection of old LRs way back when I was in college - all stuff I wanted to save.

Jon, to be effective, I do think the coin box would require side grooves to mask the gimmick join spot. Anyone with an old Tannen catalog who knows what Jon is talking about?
Jim

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 20th, 2009, 7:46 pm

Agreed about the side grooves. The one at the shop had what appeared to be a half coin in the gaff rather than a whole. That might have given me the idea for my Boston box which has just the merest sliver of a coin :)
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Leonard Hevia » June 4th, 2011, 10:32 pm

Paul Cummins has a great Okito Box effect in his FASDIU book. It starts out as the basic illusion where the box is placed on the back of your fist and the coins penetrate through your hand. Then the box penetrates your hand, and then the lid also penetrates through your hand, one after the other!

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Ariel Frailich » July 13th, 2011, 3:36 am

Greetings!

Is anybody still following this thread? Just wondering.

My favourite Okito box is one that a friend gave me after I shared my views on the topic with him. The box has a few holes drilled in it and a tiny firecracker in each hole. It's the most treasured coin box in my collection. Come to think of it, it's the only coin box in my collection.

(All the above is true, btw.)

After playing with coin boxes for a while in my early teens, I lost interest for the reasons stated in this thread: they don't look like anything on earth. I fell in love with the Aspirin tin idea described in Tarbell 7, but by the time I found out about it, Bayer had changed the design of the box, so the technique no longer worked. Although I'm not actively searching, I still keep an eye out for some real-world object that might be usable as a coin box.

My reason for posting is not to hear myself talk (or see myself type, in this case), but to put forth a possibly humorous -- or possibly twisted -- thought.

In the early 70s, Vernet (if memory serves) put out a beautiful Okito box with an insert that allowed the production of liquid as a final load. The box was made of bright yellow plastic and had a red disk on the lid with a dragon stamped on it. (This may be the dragon mentioned earlier in the thread; I'm not sure.)

Well, if I were forced to do an Okito box routine, this is the box I would choose. Why? Because it looks like something -- namely, a toy.

Crazy?
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Leonard Hevia » July 14th, 2011, 8:03 pm

Hi Ariel--

I was the last man left on this thread until you arrived. I have come full circle on the Okito box. As a teenager I loved this prop, and then it eventually seemed ridiculous. Now I have fallen in love with it again.

The plain brass or copper style seems best to me. Nothing fancy here. I don't think the box should be polished because you get a nice contrast with shiny coins and a dark box.

The box is not that far out. It's instantly recognizable, easy to understand, and appears fairly innocent. It can be a small metal box that you used to keep your coins safe in until strange things started to happen. Let me show you what I mean...

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jim Riser » July 14th, 2011, 11:36 pm

Just engrave "Stamps" or "Pills" on the lid and the box instantly looks like something.
Jim

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Glenn Bishop » July 15th, 2011, 1:33 am

When working restaurants I used a Rings and things half dollar sized box - for ring on the stick.

And as a second routine that I used the same prop for repete customers I would do the Ken Brooke Okito coin box routine using the same box and quarters.

I found both routines to be crowd pleasers.

Cheers!

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby El Harvey Oswald » July 15th, 2011, 1:54 am

The Original

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby mrgoat » July 15th, 2011, 3:45 am

Glenn Bishop wrote:When working restaurants I used a Rings and things half dollar sized box - for ring on the stick.


For once, I'm not being snarky Glenn, but I thought Ring On Wand/Stick used a ring? How do you put a box on a wand?

Seriously, I'm curious.

Thanks

Damian

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Leonard Hevia » July 15th, 2011, 10:35 am

I thought the same thing, but the only answer must be that Glenn used the Okito box to carry a ring. I suppose he didn't want to wear it on his finger.

That's a nice idea Mr. Riser. One can get the lid engraved to make the box even more commonplace. I've see some real fancy boxes made out of wood and ivory, but the plain metal box works for me.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Glenn Bishop » July 15th, 2011, 12:46 pm

The ring can be borrowed - however I use a ring I carry in the box and call the box a ring box.

One of the lines I use is "put the ring in the box - shake it and listen - you can hear it ringing - that is why it is called a ring box."

I shake the box and let audience members listen. Then steal the ring out and it (the ring) appears on the wand held by the spectators. I also do the ring on the stick two more times using the Vernon technique in the stars of magic.

This works well for fromal close up shows as well as drawing room performances.

Cheers!

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Bob Farmer » July 15th, 2011, 1:15 pm

For guys like me who can't actually do coin magic or handle coin boxes, may I humbly suggest you check out my routine, all as contained in Mojo Boogie Boxes:

http://www.roykueppers.com/mojoboogieboxes.html

There are also additional routines included that are even simpler. I believe I may have published them in Genii, but I don't keep track, so I may be delusional.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby George Olson » July 15th, 2011, 1:21 pm

I carry my dollar sized box in a 2 1/2 inch Tam 'O Shanter purse I found at a Garage Sale, and introduce it as a "Scotchman's safe...

Works for me.

I carry another in a leather collapsable cup holder..

GO

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Kent Gunn » July 15th, 2011, 1:45 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9cU6qGGv9o

Sources, references etc. are in the video.

This routine, clumsy though it may appear to you aficiandos has stood me in good stead since 1977 when I put it together.

My motivation for the box . . .

Is hiding in this patter line in the video.

This is an Okito Box. Can you guess the name of the magician who invented it? . . . Before they say Okito, I say,

"Theo Bamburg, that's right!"

Makes me laugh inside a little. I think they accept the box for what it is.

Lost a magic competition with this as my closer. Perhaps that should tell me something.

KG
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jim Riser » July 15th, 2011, 2:35 pm

Kent Gunn wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9cU6qGGv9o

Sources, references etc. are in the video.

Is hiding in this patter line in the video.

Lost a magic competition with this as my closer. Perhaps that should tell me something.

KG


Don't compete? Judges were jealous? Judges didn't get the Okito reference? You are under appreciated? That the box and routine should have been disguarded via a torpedo tube while you had the chance?

Any of the above sound like something you might have learned from your loss?
Jim

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Kent Gunn » July 15th, 2011, 2:39 pm

Jim,

It was a long time ago. I'm over it. As I used to tell my students, (I know you had your share of those);

Fair is a place where they judge pigs and boysenberry jam, don't worry about what's fair.

I also competed with my cups and balls a couple of years ago at WMS. Came in eleventh in a field of ten.

Originality, practice and a love of performing all have so many rewards that I've finally learned magic isn't a competition.

I'm happy with my stuff. I try to make it better and better.

I don't go to fairs anymore.

Kent

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jim Riser » July 15th, 2011, 3:00 pm

Kent;
The winning routines are the ones which bring joy to the audience.

I need to machine up a varient of the Okito box for use with a folded/rolled up borrowed/signed bill and send off pics to RK for possible inclusion in a Genii. It's a quickie that impresses. I gave away my original years ago.

I also used to carry a casino chip sized Okito box to house my" emergency" gambling stash. There were chips from 5 different casinos. This allowed chatting about the various casinos during the routine. Let's see, represented were The Stardust, The Sands, The Frontier, The Sahara, and The Golden Goose. Hmmm perhaps it could turn in to a Vegas history lesson.
Jim

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Bob Farmer » July 15th, 2011, 4:23 pm

I will admit to fumbling through David Roth's Stars of Magic routine on several occasions. I would say the box was used by safecrackers to practice and then I would turn the top one way, then another, then another, as if I was working a combination to open the box. "But the really good safecrackers don't need the combination, they use magic nitro ...." etc.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Glenn Bishop » July 15th, 2011, 11:37 pm

There was another routine I used - three silver coins (half dollars) and one copper coin ( an english penny) And it was a three phase copper silver routine.

The problem I have had when performing the Scarne copper silver routine out of the stars of magic was- when working bars and for people that have had a few drinks - they would forget what hand had the copper coin and what hand had the silver coin.

Having one of the three silver coins switch with the copper solved the problem and using the box.

Perhaps one day I will post a video however I have no time to do that these days.

Cheers!
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby mrgoat » July 16th, 2011, 6:53 pm

Glenn Bishop wrote:The ring can be borrowed - however I use a ring I carry in the box and call the box a ring box.


Ah right. So you used a ring for ring on stick, you just carried it the okito box.

That makes more sense!

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Glenn Bishop » July 16th, 2011, 11:45 pm

And add the Vernon ring on a stick ideas that are in the stars of magic it makes it a very good routine.

Cheers!

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby bobj » August 29th, 2011, 4:28 pm

I am currently working on Jamy Ian Swiss',"Well in hand Okito", from his book, "Another Interesting Application Of That Principle."

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Leonard Hevia » August 29th, 2011, 4:48 pm

Bob--

The Slot Box makes this routine a bit easier.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Richard Green » October 8th, 2011, 7:18 pm

I'll chime in. My two favorite routines are Dominique Duvivier's using his box, and the routine I perform now, Karl Norman's "Coin Collection". I was never a fan of the Okito box, but the Norman routine has become one of my favorites to perform.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Chris Deleo » September 6th, 2013, 11:06 am

Been using Lassens copper box set for a couple of years. They are heavy and beautifully crafted. Well worth the investment.

Routines? Mostly Roth inspired.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Gary Brown » September 12th, 2013, 9:58 pm

Hello all,

I was pleased to come across this post, as several months back, I treated myself to a Jim Zee slot Boston box. It is a gem. The workmanship is impeccable, right down to Jim's tiny signature Z inside the box. It is made with such precision that even someone who isn't very good at coin work (as I am not) can pull off some incredible effects convincingly. It's even a wonderful thing to hold. I used to use a Johnson box until it dropped during a routine and the lid dented and no longer fits properly. There is no comparison.

I recognize all of the comments here about using the Okito box for the layperson, and trying to explain what it is. I think there's a post somewhere on the forum about how many Okito boxes sit in the bottom of drawers and are only used to amuse oneself. Even if you use it only for that purpose, Jim's box is a wonderful thing to own.

I'm not quite sure what his situation is . . . I had the sense that he may no longer be producing his work. If that's so, all the more reason to grab one of these while they're still around.

Gary Brown
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 12th, 2013, 10:20 pm

Gimmicked Okito boxes are for magicians. I can't think of a single good reason that you would need to use a gimmicked Okito box for any routine when working for laymen.

When you consider all the incredible material on the Okito box I published in David Roth's book in 1985, little of which requires any sort of gimmicked box, I can't see why you would need one.
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Chris Deleo » September 12th, 2013, 10:57 pm

Some of the more experimental gimmicked boxes are perhaps overkill, but along with the standard box, I would have to qualify the Boston box as essential

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Chris Deleo » September 12th, 2013, 11:09 pm

During my Okito Box buying obsession, I remember a box with a false bottom that pivoted. The coin would be delivered into your hand via the pivoting trap door. The "No Turnover Box", I believe.

I remember other experimental boxes, strange things with magnets in the lids, Boston/Standard two in one combo's (Johnson, I believe) all of which ended up in the dresser drawer when I began studying Expert Coin Magic.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Tom Gilbert » September 12th, 2013, 11:15 pm

It was David Roth that introduced/reintroduced the slot box to magic. I remember when he presented the Roth Coin Box Set, he was doing some amazing things and even passed the box out. Needless to say he sold a few sets that night.


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