Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

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Brian Morton
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Brian Morton » January 31st, 2002, 3:06 pm

We have stumbled on the vintage where the gripes of Roth are stored.

Priceless!

On topic, however, I think Roth's Out With Five is the best seated Okito routine, however, if you don't work with tables, Jamy Ian Swiss's "In The Hands Okito" from his new 2001 Magic Castle Notes is awesome. He showed it to me and my wife at JR's on 46th in NYC back in '95 and I waited six years for him to publish it, and it was worth the wait. But learning the Roth Spill Out Steal is the penance one pays for such a great routine -- 'taint easy.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Guest » February 1st, 2002, 4:28 am

Priceless!


[Full disclosure: The pun originated with cartoonist Arno Roth]

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Eric Rose » February 10th, 2002, 4:34 am

I don't imagine many will see this since I've come in so late in the thread, but I happened across a nice impromptu okito box last week. Several coffee shops now carry hi-intensity mints in Clik-Clak boxes ( I got mine at a Borders Bookstore coffee shop). This is a small round metal box with a unique lid that "locks" onto the box when you press in the lid sides. It unlocks by pressing the center of the lid, expanding the lid sides again. The name comes from the clicking noise of doing this action. The lid locks equally well on either the top or the bottom of the box. The box diameter holds Morgan dollars with about 1/4" inch to spare. The box is made of stamped painted aluminum, and is lighter than most boxes, so it takes a little getting used to for "the move". Once you get the touch, it flips like a gem. I'm particularly partial to it right now for two reasons: first, you don't have to spend much time describing what it is. Secondly, the locking lid explains why you would want to keep coins in the box - it really does protect them. I showed this to Jerry Phillips at Robert's Magic in Davenport the other day and he inspired the name "Neato Okito". I'm sure dozens of guys have discovered this box before me, but I think this takes the trick back to the impromptu roots it came from.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby cataquet » February 23rd, 2002, 10:21 am

Sam Schwartz's Incredibox!! My God, I remember that one. In fact, I still have it.

I used to use it all the time, but when the slot box came along, it was retired. I eventually got a Jim Zachary slot box, and I've just gotten used to it. If you think that lid on the Z box is big, look at the Incredibox. The lid alone was bigger than the Z box!

The Incredibox had a coin that was magnetic and could disappear into the lid or the base of the box. So, you could turn a okito box into a boston box, and then back into an okito box ditching the extra coin in two moves. Very clever, but, as I said, it was a bit too big (and too gimmicky).

Bye for now

Harold

[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: Harold Cataquet ]

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Guest » February 13th, 2005, 11:25 am

Hello all, from a new member that is returning to magic after 43 years! I have a question about my David Roth 3-box set I purchased from a magic shop.
I know the dealer is reputable, and is one of the largest. I bought the 3-box Roth set plus the David Roth Ultimate Coin Magic Vol 2 DVD.

Upon arriving home, I was startled to see that the 3 boxes were of less thickness than the other boxes I have seen. The walls are about 1/2 the thickness of a US Half or UK Penny. Also, the manual appears to be a photocopy. Every thing I read online about this set (I researched before plopping down $100!!) said these were the best, but mine seem so thin!
I do not wish to offend the owner of the shop; he is a very reputable dealer and 1 of the largest. However, I feel there was a mistake made and need to know before I take it back!
Any suggestions about the set and how I should approach the shop would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely
Chalmers

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Guest » March 5th, 2005, 6:28 pm

I finally got up my nerve and expressed my concern to the owner of the shop where I bought my Roth boxes.

They are indeed David Roth's set. They were purchased directly from Mr. Roth at a convention.

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Ruben Padilla
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Ruben Padilla » March 8th, 2005, 9:35 am

Interesting, Chalmers. I also purchased a Roth set from a reputable dealer in California (now out of business), and the instructions were photocopied, but the quality of the boxes was fine. In fact, upon closer examination, all three boxes were engraved with a tiny "z". I quickly learned that they were the famous Zachary boxes, packaged as the David Roth set. I didn't complain because I happen to like the Z boxes, but does anybody know of this (Z boxes being sold as Roth's)???
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby cataquet » March 8th, 2005, 12:21 pm

Jim Zachary used to make them for David Roth. Then something happened, and David found someone else to make them for him. I think that the next generation of the Roth's boxes were in black. I think that later, Roth went back to the brass look.

That's all I know...

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby darticus » February 20th, 2009, 10:44 am

I am using the Beyond Okito box and trying to learn how to do the moves. Even the okito turnover is a problem when you can't see it done. Any thoughts on where I can get some instructions? Thanks Ron

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Chris Deleo » July 13th, 2009, 12:50 pm

you can do no better than Roth's work in Expert Coin Magic. Just about 90 pages of that book are devoted to coin box magic. All your sleights are covered and explained and the routines are top notch...some, like his box switches, are knuckle busters, but most of the material is within reach of the dedicated coin worker.

Beyond that, Dave Neighbors released a book on the subject. I do not own it, but if it's anything like his other books, you're to get some great, off-beat routines. His thinking is always outside the box...no pun intended

Good luck

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 13th, 2009, 12:59 pm

Where is Frank Thompson's okito box work in print?
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 13th, 2009, 1:04 pm

It's not.
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 13th, 2009, 1:05 pm

What are your thoughts on starting the routine with the lid on the box but it's stuck there. IE the box and lid are implicitly magical and perhaps demonstrated so by a switch early in the routine after the items is examined for a moment.
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Joe Pecore » July 13th, 2009, 1:11 pm

Looks like there was a little something by Frank Thompson in Apocalypse:

http://archive.denisbehr.de/archive/res ... rder=title
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Chris Deleo » July 13th, 2009, 1:22 pm

Jonathan,

so the routine starts with the lid and box "stuck"? Then a switch, then the coins are dumped out?


As an aside, in Expert Coin Magic, Roth has an amazing switch of one box for another...the effect is startling. Magician waves his hands over an empty box and it's suddenly filled with coins.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 13th, 2009, 1:33 pm

Chris, what I'm asking about is whether it's worth making the point about the box by starting off with the audience unable to get the lid off the bottom. I'm toying with is a box inside a pouch and what's inside the box... think Sandman.

My old routine starts with four loose coins and the box appears around the coins. :) It ends with the box openly lifted off the coins and then vanishing.

Geoff Latta also published a startling version of that effect with the box suddenly filling with coins.
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Chris Deleo » July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

Hmm...Id have to see your routine in action...

The biggest issue with coin box routines is getting people to give a damn. Most coin box routines are expository. Which can be fine, but it's nice to get the audience involved in some way. I have the same issue with 3 Fly routines. But that's another story.

Bare in mind, Im a coin box freak. I just love the damn thing.

Im developing a routine myself...kind of a multi-phased beast. My only requirement was an equal balance of exposition vs. audience involvement
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Terry » July 13th, 2009, 6:26 pm

Joe Pecore wrote:Looks like there was a little something by Frank Thompson in Apocalypse:

http://archive.denisbehr.de/archive/res ... rder=title


I don't see how Denis has attached Frank Thompson to this. Reading the description, it was shown to Harry L. by Irv Tannen who said it belonged to his brother Lou Tannen.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Philippe Billot » July 14th, 2009, 4:15 am

Apocalypse, Vol. 2, No.4, April 1979, page 192, para. 2:

"And, Howie Schwarzman tells me the the One-Hand Okito Box Sequence (Vol. 1, No. 10), credited to Irv Tannen, really belongs to the late Franj Thompson. Frank showed it to Howie, who showed it to Irv, who showed it to me... and so it goes."

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Bob Farmer » July 14th, 2009, 7:28 am

Mojo Boogie Boxes is a unique routine with a cool presentation. Modestly prevents me from saying more.


http://www.roykueppers.com/mojoboogieboxes.html

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 14th, 2009, 9:13 am

What a cool reframing of the three shell game - and you can use their quarters!
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Chris Deleo » July 14th, 2009, 1:50 pm

Tommy Wonder published an okito box routine. Really nice piece of magic.

I remember learning it thinking it was almost like theater, the way it was constructed.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Pete McCabe » July 14th, 2009, 5:55 pm

A month or so ago one of my students had a cheap color vision box and was doing it for his friends in homeroom. I took it and made the inner block penetrate through the box and my hand. The kids were absolutely flabbergasted.

I believe that the basic Okito Box principle (i.e. the lid on the bottom) is one of magic's great secrets and that one day I will find a natural object to make a great trick using it. The search continues.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Bob Farmer » July 14th, 2009, 7:46 pm

Pete, the Okito Box and its friends (Boston, etc.) can be natural objects -- well, sort of. I used to do the David Roth SOM routine -- but the box always bothered me: what is this #$@$% box supposed to be? I finally said they were used by safe crackers to practice. I'd turn the lid back and forth a few times as if there was a combination.

I also had a brass box on which I had the letters "CHUBB" engraved on the lid ("Brinks" or "Wells Fargo" would also work here). I said it was used to secure diamonds.

Other possibilities: engrave a the nuclear danger symbol and say it's made of lead and used to store isotopes.

U.F. Grant had a clear Okito Box -- it was plastic and was probably some sort of drug store box for pills.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Tortuga » July 14th, 2009, 8:37 pm

Nobody has mentioned the original Rings 'N Things Long John Silver Okito Coin Box. Magnetic box with some really beautiful effects possible. Should have bought one when I had the chance, but that was in the 80s, and as a teenager, was a lot of money.

One of the nicest boxes that I saw was made personally for Chris Kenner by Tim Star when Tim and Chris lived in St. Louis. It was copper and pretty much the same design as a Zachary box with the big lid. I pretty much drooled over it.

Anyone remember a young man named Howard Dennemark (sp?). He put out two small booklets published by the late Gene Devoe of the Magic Den in St. Louis. He had some nice touches and a move he claimed to have originated called the Dennemark drop. Very nice loading move that is knacky, but once you have it is pretty deceptive. Haven't heard from him since the early 80s.

I like my Zachary boxes and don't mind the lid at all. Never had anyone say anything about the lid. Maybe if they could compare side-by-side, Zachary vs. Johnson they might wonder. But when they don't have anything to compare it to?
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Chris Deleo » July 14th, 2009, 8:44 pm

there's some independent stuff floating around on youtube. most of it is dreadful, but there's this one titled "launch coin box" by "koudai". The routine is set to music. Really beautiful.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby rkosby » July 14th, 2009, 8:55 pm

I don't like Okito boxes. I owned a Johnson box until I dented the lid. There are a few effects I like though.

Chad Long's backfire in Okito Reverse-Embly on DVD 1.
Chastain Chriswell's "Outside the Box" especially when all the coins go back into the box at once.
Bill Goodwin's finale.
Mohammed Bey's routine and the extras from Edward J. McLaughlin.

Ray

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby David Acer » July 14th, 2009, 9:57 pm

Pete McCabe wrote: I believe that the basic Okito Box principle (i.e. the lid on the bottom) is one of magic's great secrets and that one day I will find a natural object to make a great trick using it. The search continues.


Instead of trying to find something natural that's similar to an Okito box, let's work on getting actual Okito boxes out there in the real world via a ShamWow style infomercial that makes the kids think it's something they can't live without, like an Ipod earbud-holder, or a gum spitoon. Then we go out and blow people away with their own freakin' O' boxes!
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 14th, 2009, 10:43 pm

I think it might gain popularity as a container for illicit drugs.
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Pete McCabe » July 15th, 2009, 3:59 am

I could see a round clear (or translucent) plastic box holding a Spanish piece-of-eight or other mystical coin. Then just do the penetration effect with one coin. That could be very effective and everything would make sense as the round plastic box is a standard coin collector's supply. A quick check shows lots of small clear plastic boxes that look like they could work. I guess a trip to the craft story is in my future.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby rkosby » July 15th, 2009, 9:16 am

I forgot to mention that Dominique Duvivier's solid box finale is good too.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 15th, 2009, 9:30 am

the clack box may have some potential.

The basic problem, for those who have not yet tried, is that the lid tends to ease off the box and let the contents loose in your pocket.
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Pete McCabe » July 15th, 2009, 11:17 am

By the way, Ray, isn't it about time for a trip to LA? We miss you.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby HannahMagic » October 6th, 2009, 5:17 pm

Michael Rubinstein has a good one on his dvds. its not one of the newer ones its back from a while ago.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Tom Bennett » October 7th, 2009, 4:45 pm

Chris Deleo wrote:Tommy Wonder published an okito box routine. Really nice piece of magic.

I remember learning it thinking it was almost like theater, the way it was constructed.


Does anybody know where he published it? I'm pretty sure that it's not in the books of wonder!
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Tom Bennett » October 7th, 2009, 4:49 pm

After watching the New York Coin Seminar Vol 10 DVD

I really favour Davids Routine that is only possible in this clean way with his box.

Also I'm very fond of the Routines of Mike Gallo as they are really entertaining and will for sure work for lay people.

I have a video clip of David performing his routine in my review of the DVD on my blog:

http://escamoteur.de/wordpress/index.ph ... vd-vol-10/

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Tom
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Tom Frame » October 7th, 2009, 9:11 pm

Most layfolk have never seen anything that looks like an Okito Box. In performing these effects, I'm very interested in what you guys call this object. I shudder to think that the "pill box" presentation is still in heavy rotation.

What is this thing? How do you rationalize its utility and yes, it's very existence? Why is this object important to your character, and how do you make the crowd care?

Seriously curious.
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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Bob Farmer » October 8th, 2009, 10:08 am

Back when I was actually doing coin box tricks, this issue was always concerning. What the Hell is this little box? I came up with a couple of ideas:

1. It was a secret device that safecrackers used to practice. I would turn the top one way, then the other, as if there was a combination lock. This also tied into the effect since I could say that some master safecrackers practiced so much, they could remove the money without actually opening the safe.

2. On one of my boxes, I had a jeweler engrave the word "CHUBB" on the top. I then explained that CHUBB made these little boxes for keeping small valuable items like diamonds, radio isotopes and these 1919 gold silver dollars ....

3. These are two knobs off the control panel of the flying saucer that crashed at Roswell. They fit together like this, but we don't know why.

4. This is the box the U.S. mint uses as the standard to check the size of coins. This is the box Las Vegas uses to check the size of poker chips.

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby jason156 » October 8th, 2009, 12:43 pm

I believe Wallace Murphy refers to it as his "time out box" where he puts his coins when they are naughty..

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Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

Postby Tom Bennett » October 9th, 2009, 3:07 am

Bob Farmer wrote:2. On one of my boxes, I had a jeweler engrave the word "CHUBB" on the top. I then explained that CHUBB made these little boxes for keeping small valuable items like diamonds, radio isotopes and these 1919 gold silver dollars ....

3. These are two knobs off the control panel of the flying saucer that crashed at Roswell. They fit together like this, but we don't know why.


I really like these two:

2. A good example that it's always a good idea to modify a prop in a way that it makes sense
3. I just like that, it's awesome!

I want to contradict Richard that a Dragon on the box is a bad idea. IF your role is someone who collects rare items, so this could perfectly make sense.

Best
Tom
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