The Genii Forum

Posted: **October 30th, 2014, 12:25 am**

A brass Steve Shufton Okito Box recently came my way. It's thick and meaty, with beveled edges and features that would make any Okito Box enthusiast quite happy. Charlie Miller might have labeled it "a man's box." One of Shufton's modifications was to raise the height of the box to accommodate 5 coins, so 4 half dollars rattle nicely inside the box because of the extra headroom. If he decides to make these in dollar size, that would be cool.

Posted: **October 30th, 2014, 5:21 pm**

Hey, here's a little-known coinbox fact: There's actually a whole darn channel on Youtube that calls itself "Okito Box". Who knew? Have a look, and you'll see bits of odd and sometimes interesting explorations of this prop in this post-Rothian (his book, that is, David's still around) world. For instance, there's this: [youtube]http://youtu.be/NW5g5Hym7Uk[/youtube]

Not sure why that link thang isn't working, or if it is.

Posted: **October 30th, 2014, 7:03 pm**

Here you go Curtis ...

Posted: **October 30th, 2014, 9:23 pm**

While I never saw Ken Brooke perform his Okito Box routine, Paul Daniels has described it as one of the most magical effects he has seen.

Posted: **October 31st, 2014, 9:26 am**

Q. Kumber wrote:While I never saw Ken Brooke perform his Okito Box routine, Paul Daniels has described it as one of the most magical effects he has seen.

Is that the one with the teacups? in Art of Closup Magic?

Posted: **October 31st, 2014, 10:20 am**

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Q. Kumber wrote:While I never saw Ken Brooke perform his Okito Box routine, Paul Daniels has described it as one of the most magical effects he has seen.

Is that the one with the teacups? in Art of Closup Magic?

The one you mention is on page 62. I believe the one Paul was referring to starts on page 64 and also appears in the book, 'Ken Brooke - The Unique Years'.

Posted: **November 15th, 2018, 8:04 pm**

I've been continuing work on the Okito box since this was last discussed.

Does anyone know if Frank Thompson's work on the box has been published anywhere?

(I checked the Conjuring Archive and there are just a very few references: Just a Scotty York reference and one sequence in Apocalypse, as well as related credit for the Latta and Bossi moves in print.)

Posted: **November 15th, 2018, 8:05 pm**

Also, I think this routine is not fancy, but looks very practical:

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic ... x-routine/

Posted: **November 15th, 2018, 8:24 pm**

Frank Thompson's material is somewhere in Howie Schwarzman's head. Where it will stay.

Posted: **November 15th, 2018, 10:04 pm**

At one time Howie sold a special gaffed box that came with an instructional video tape. Maybe some of the Frank Thompson stuff is on that tape. Of course you will need to find the tape.

Posted: **November 16th, 2018, 8:25 am**

See:

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/5468

This is a routine I created for people who don't do coin box routines.

Posted: **November 16th, 2018, 6:17 pm**

From an article by Schwarzman in MUM, May 2007:
"Perhaps someday Frank's [Thompson] notes, like the Phoenix, will emerge again. They were in safekeeping with Phil Thomas, who had an unfortunate fire at the old Yogi Magic Shop location, and many of the damaged books and boxes that were removed have yet to be unpacked. At this writing it is unknown if, or how much of Frank's notes survived. I hope that they did. There is a wealth of unpublished material there. Perhaps someday there will be a book. Who knows?"

Posted: **November 17th, 2018, 7:54 am**

Thanks, everyone for the Frank Thompson info--too bad it looks like the majority of his stuff may be lost to posterity. For that matter, will a Schwarzman book ever see print?

Also, I know that Marlo had some interesting work on the Okito Box. However, I couldn't find anything from two other notables: Vernon and Miller. Did either of them have any work on the box?

Posted: **November 17th, 2018, 10:28 am**

No Thompson book.
No Schwarzman book.

Lessons to be learned from both losses.

Posted: **November 17th, 2018, 3:03 pm**

Richard Kaufman wrote:No Thompson book.
No Schwarzman book.

Lessons to be learned from both losses.

Indeed.

On a non-related note, links to the Okito Box Youtube channel above seem to be broken. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRG7i2 ... kDVk3ZOInQ

In addition to some interesting coin box magic, this channel also contains the best use of the world's worst Tenyo trick that I've ever seen.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 11:29 am**

Eric Decamps showed me a routine on several occasions with a silver dollar size box and silver dollars. I'm clueless. Very fooled !

Also, check out Gregg Webb's Boston Box routine in Genii, maybe several years ago by now, Tour of Boston.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 5:46 pm**

H. Sawa has a fun routine with patter about the trains in Japan.
Joe Cole published some of his work - also looks fun.
But if you want to play outside the usual box try Bob Farmer's Mojo Boogie Box routine.

Rumor has it Curtis Kam is tipping some of his coinbox work in his current lecture. There may also be a video. Curtis?

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 9:31 pm**

rkosby wrote:I don't like Okito boxes. I owned a Johnson box until I dented the lid. There are a few effects I like though.

Chad Long's backfire in Okito Reverse-Embly on DVD 1.
Chastain Chriswell's "Outside the Box" especially when all the coins go back into the box at once.
Bill Goodwin's finale.
Mohammed Bey's routine and the extras from Edward J. McLaughlin.

Ray

I finally saw Chad Long's routine: really, really nice.

Does anyone know if Bill Goodwin's finale has been published somewhere?

Posted: **April 30th, 2019, 8:17 am**

What is Bill Goodwin's finale ?

Posted: **May 1st, 2019, 10:25 pm**

Jonathan Townsend wrote:H. Sawa has a fun routine with patter about the trains in Japan.
Joe Cole published some of his work - also looks fun.
But if you want to play outside the usual box try Bob Farmer's Mojo Boogie Box routine.

Rumor has it Curtis Kam is tipping some of his coinbox work in his current lecture. There may also be a video. Curtis?

I believe Curtis has completed a video with Penguin that is due out in a month or so?

Posted: **May 2nd, 2019, 5:13 am**

Sorry I missed that question. Yes, rumor confirmed. The longest Okito Box routine you’ve ever seen is now performed, explained, and in the hands of the fine folks at Penguin.

Jon, to answer the other question, I suspect the finale mentioned above is Bill’s sequence where the coins, the box,and the lid all pass through the magician’s hand.

What do I win?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Posted: **May 2nd, 2019, 11:07 am**

A long time ago, RK wrote:

"Okito made his original coin box from a pill box: a natural pre-existing object that people would recognize.
NOW--what do you think your box SHOULD look like?
The answer is ... nothing special, nothing unusual. No dragon!"

That is why I have rarely been impressed by any Okito Box routine using an "Okito Box." Reminds me too much of the nickels to dime thing. Even in a great routine and even if specs inspect it, I think it's very hard to dispel the notion that it must be gaffed in some way.

Posted: **May 2nd, 2019, 2:56 pm**

Oh, you’re gonna hate my routine then. I tell ‘em that it’s an Okito Box from a magic store.

If I were at all concerned about making the box a “normal thing”, I suppose, in this day and age, it would be as simple as delivering a line or two from The Matrix and opening the box to reveal a red pill and a blue pill.

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Posted: **May 2nd, 2019, 3:07 pm**

Curtis Kam wrote: I suspect the finale mentioned above is Bill’s sequence where the coins, the box,and the lid all pass through the magician’s hand.

Is that the same as this ...

Leonard Hevia wrote:Paul Cummins has a great Okito Box effect in his FASDIU book. It starts out as the basic illusion where the box is placed on the back of your fist and the coins penetrate through your hand. Then the box penetrates your hand, and then the lid also penetrates through your hand, one after the other!

Posted: **May 2nd, 2019, 3:37 pm**

Brad,

The short answer is, no, the handling’s a bit different. Paul’s was published in Apocalypse.

The handling attributed to Billy Goodwin is, as far as Craig Ousterling and I can tell, Gordon Bruce’s. I’m told it appeared in a little manuscript or lecture notes that I’ve not seen. It’s the most elegant way that I know to accomplish this rather brutal effect.

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Posted: **May 2nd, 2019, 5:19 pm**

Mr. Kam:
Thanks so much for that reference---gonna track that down.

I would love to see a large book of Mr. Bruce's material someday....or a large video (Hi, Kent!

)

Posted: **May 2nd, 2019, 5:40 pm**

Oh, you’re gonna hate my routine then. I tell ‘em that it’s an Okito Box from a magic store.

That could be intriguing...the backstage view as Andy at the jerx might put it.

Posted: **May 4th, 2019, 3:50 am**

Jack, you’re right, although I never quite realized it. And I’ve enjoyed Andy’s writing since the MCJ days.

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Posted: **February 27th, 2021, 12:29 pm**

Is the David Roth Okito Box New Stars of Magic available anywhere now?

Posted: **February 27th, 2021, 2:16 pm**

No, but it was a simplified version of his work, dumbed down for the series. The best stuff is in the Roth book.

Posted: **February 27th, 2021, 2:30 pm**

Thanks - I have your book

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 3:52 am**

Bill Duncan wrote:Since we're on the subject of Okito boxes I'm thinking about the "Dragon" Okito box that's made from Pewter and has a dragon on the lid.

Anyone have one and care to comment on it?

It's not really an Okito box, it's a small metal box sold in what used to be called 'hippy stores'

I bought one in such a store. The lid fits very loosely making use of box somewhat easy, but it is large. At least it looks less prop-like than purpose built boxes.

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 5:56 am**

Tom Frame wrote:What is this thing? How do you rationalize its utility and yes, it's very existence?

It's funny how magicians who perform close-up will concern themselves over the justification of using of a little round box while those who perform on stage seem to have no qualms about using something like THIS.

Bob Farmer wrote:I would say the box was used by safecrackers to practice and then I would turn the top one way, then another, then another, as if I was working a combination to open the box.

You might want to consider getting one of THESE.

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 8:04 am**

Brad Jeffers wrote:You might want to consider getting one of THESE

Brilliant idea!

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 8:32 am**

El Mystico wrote:Is the David Roth Okito Box New Stars of Magic available anywhere now?

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-dvds/stars-of-magic-volume-8/

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-dvds/stars-of-magic-volume-9/

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 10:52 am**

The DVDs are unrelated to the printed series. The routine might or might not be on there.

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 5:14 pm**

Richard Kaufman wrote:The routine might or might not be on there.

It is not.

Posted: **March 5th, 2021, 12:27 pm**

In his Okito box routine John Ramsay used a tin which had contained a common brand of ointment and had a domed lid which added an extra effect. He felt that a lot of people would have one similar at home and not suspect it of being anything else.

Posted: **March 5th, 2021, 2:15 pm**

Good to know!

Posted: **June 23rd, 2021, 2:08 am**

Personally, I prefer Ken Brooke's routine.

It's just four phases and cuts to the chase. It includes 3 penetrations (2 x through card case into a glass and 1 x through the hand); a coin vanish and subsequent re-appearance back into the Box - which I have the spectator hold.

Does an Okito Box routine really need to be more overly-complicated than that?

Personally, I dislike the 'Homing Coin' concept - of one coin, at a time, continually leaving (or appearing) back in the box. The majority of routines I've watched over the years along these lines, have not only been predictable; but additionally scattered with a raft of unconvincing/unnatural coin moves. Maybe these worked for the L&L 'Happy Clappies' audience; or at a polite Convention of Magicians; but in the UK, you have to hit people quick and hit them hard. This side of the pond, people are more akin to thinking "FFS just get on with it"! I've no doubt that some American audiences are exactly the same, in this day and age.

Another reason I still use the Ken Brooke routine is that it can be performed standing - which is the condition under which 99% of our work is undertaken. A lot of the 'eye candy' Okito Box multi-phase routines that I've seen over the years are perfomed sitting at a table; and with lots of room for the obligatory close-up mat. Try that over here - you won't stand a chance at most venues.

Just as an aside, something I also dislike is when a magician, whilst using a coin through box/hand penetration, puts the box on the back of the hand - with the fingers clenched into a fist. It's far more convincing to get the coin into a purse palm; then placing the box on the back of the fingers (directly over the puse palmed coin). It appears impossible that you've got a coin palmed as the hand/fingers are held out completely straight - in fact, you can even have the fingers bent slightly upwards at their tips with this palm. The added convincer is when you tell the spectator to push down on the box; because this releases the coin automatically at the precise moment that they push (it literally pops out of the purse palm). Moreover, the coin falls FROM the correct position - as the box is directly above where it falls from. Try both methods in front of a mirror; and tell me that I'm wrong.

Just my tuppence worth into the debate anyway folks.

The Genii Forum

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