Here we go again, Ebay

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Scott Fridinger
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Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Scott Fridinger » January 8th, 2006, 7:57 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Magic-Trick-Dai-Ver ... dZViewItem

Just saw this, only 10 CDR's available, act now.

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 8th, 2006, 8:53 pm

Wow... this seller sure has a lot of CD-R, DVD-R, MP3 and PDF stuff in his store. The complete works of Pink Floyd for six pounds, likewise U2 and others - wonder how he can afford to provide such incredible bargains? Sheesh...

Chris Aguilar
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Chris Aguilar » January 9th, 2006, 7:30 am

Dai Vernons
Inner Card Secrets,
+
More Inner Card Secrets
+
Further Inner Secrets of Card Magic.


Inner Secrets of Card Magic


More
Inner Secrets of Card Magic


Further
Inner Secrets of Card Magic



These great books all together on a single cdrom in PDF format
Supplied on a CDR with in Slip Case


note all these items are in the public domain and it is completely legal to have an electronic backup of original material you own,by buying these disk you are stating you own the original books
Yeah, sure.

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Scott Fridinger » January 11th, 2006, 5:09 pm

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:



note all these items are in the public domain and it is completely legal to have an electronic backup of original material you own,by buying these disk you are stating you own the original books Yeah, sure.
Yeah lets see it is in the Public Domain, but I need to own a copy of the original books in order to own this "scanned" version as well.

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 11th, 2006, 5:53 pm

I don't know that these ARE public domain works. I believe the wording and lack of punctuation in the disclaimer are there in the event someone calls this guy on his dishonesty - he can then say he meant it to read, "NOT all these items are in the public domain..." and he merely made a typo.

Jason England
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Jason England » January 11th, 2006, 6:38 pm

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rep ... rfeit.html

You can visit this webpage to report the guy.

The big question is: was the original copyright renewed for these books after the initial expiration? I believe it was 28 years at the time of publication, though the Sonny Bono act retroactively extended these limits if the works met certain criteria.

IF the books met (or meet) those criteria, then they're protected and if not, then the guy is right, they are public domain works.

Perhaps Louis Falanga might know? He probably worked through these issues when he reprinted the books a few years back.

Jason

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Scott Fridinger » January 11th, 2006, 7:49 pm

Originally posted by Lucas Lembrane:
I don't know that these ARE public domain works. I believe the wording and lack of punctuation in the disclaimer are there in the event someone calls this guy on his dishonesty - he can then say he meant it to read, "NOT all these items are in the public domain..." and he merely made a typo.
I know they are not in the Public Domain. I was trying to be sarcastic. I will work on my online sarcasm.

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Scott Fridinger » January 11th, 2006, 7:51 pm

I hear you Jason, but if it was in the Public Domain, why would he even go and say that you must own the originals to buy the CD's. He knows he is wrong and he is trying to act sneaky.

Is there a list of Magic Books out there that ARE in the Public Domain?

Jason England
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Jason England » January 11th, 2006, 7:55 pm

Scott,

How do you know they're not in the public domain?

That isn't to be taken argumentatively. I'm just curious, since I don't know if the original copyrights (which all would've expired in 1997 at the latest, unless renewed) were in fact, renewed.

British law may be different, but at the time, those books were protected for 28 years + another 28 IF renewed. In 1998, the Sony Bono act increased this to 95 years (I believe), retroactive to any book still within copyright time-limits at the time.

I'm working from memory, so some of those details might be fuzzy.

Jason

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Scott Fridinger » January 11th, 2006, 8:07 pm

I hear you Jason, and I don't know if it is or isn't, but if it was why would he feel the need to add that you must own an original copy to purchase this CD-R? Just seems to me that he is trying to cover his a$$, and if it were, he would not need to say that.

Jason England
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Jason England » January 11th, 2006, 8:20 pm

Actually Scott,

I took a look at the US government copyright page, and it appears you're correct, the books are still protected, because of a 1976 law that retroactively added time to the original protection terms.

I'm no lawyer, but I think all 3 of those works are protected under US law at least, for some time to come.

Jason

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hlc

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 12th, 2006, 12:43 am

I know they are not in the Public Domain. I was trying to be sarcastic. I will work on my online sarcasm.
Your sentiment came through, Scott. At the time I wrote the post I wasn't certain of the books' status - as far as I knew they may have been public domain, but I was pretty sure they weren't. It now seems that they are not, and I suspect the complete works of U2 and Pink Floyd (which the same seller is hawking in MP3 format) are similarly protected. ;)

David Ben
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby David Ben » January 12th, 2006, 6:07 am

Please note that the vendor was informed of the status of the works and has removed the item for auction.

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 15th, 2006, 5:18 am

The chap who sells that is simon beck.

I've had problems with him before.

Richard Stokes
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Richard Stokes » January 15th, 2006, 3:41 pm

In the U.K., doesn't copyright automatically extend to 70 years after the author's death? , ie, is not dependent on the date of publication.
Which explains why even the early Agatha Christie novels are still under copyright 75 yrs + later.
Would this also apply to magic books?

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 16th, 2006, 7:27 am

I have just been told about this. I own the world copyright on all of these books and they were purchased by me from Harry Stanley's son and his widow.
All of these books will remain in copyright for many years after the date of the death of the individual authors.

The American publisher of some of these titles, L&L have been granted a licence to reproduce some of these titles for a period of time for sale in the USA but they do not own the copyright on the original books and they will only own the copyright on any extra material that may have been included by them in their own versions of these books.

What I have to say follows here but it should not under any circumstances be seen as giving permission for anyone to take something I own and to produce illegal copies: I just give up on copyright infringement. I just don't have the time to chase offenders. My theory is that it is better to get on with new projects rather than spend wasted time chasing these individuals who are breaking the law and committing (in the UK) a criminal offence.

Oh and I have learnt something new ... as long as you own the original publications then it is ok to purchase and own electronic copies! I see that means if you own a set of the C S Lewis series of books that gives you the right to purchase an electronic copy on disc of those same books. Absolute bullxxxx. It in fact is an offence under the copyright act to copy the books electronically and to offer for sale or swop or even give this material away.
All of this is really enough to make one do something else in life. I paid a good sum of money to purchase the copyright on all the Harry Stanley publications and some idiot believes that he has the right to make electronic copies of my copyright material. It all makes me completely sick.

What have I got to look forward to? So I am going to bring out the Fred Robinson book and someone out there in the world of cyberspace will make a copy of the book on disc. That is unbelievable. I almost feel that I will not release this book for sale and will just keep a copy for myself unless the magical world is willing to help stamp out this unethical behaviour. To think that 14 years of work can be scanned and released by soomeone with a scanner and a disc-copier and access to an ebay account. To the magical fraternity: do something about all of this and until you do I will not release the Fred Robinson book.

Think about thhis as well: If people make illegal copies of my material and offer them for sale and not a soul wants to purchase that would stamp it out but there is always someone out there who will go for the pirate copies and will be happy to pay for them. And the people who purchase this kind of material ... are they innocent members of the public or could they actually be magicians?

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 16th, 2006, 7:34 am

In reply to Richard Stokes. Books in the UK remain in copyright until 75 years after the death of the author. That is why books by Arthur Conan Doyle are now in the public domain in the UK. He died 76 years ago and in 2005 anyone could take any of his titles and reprint them. The law that applies to copyright material applies to books of any kind. Books on magic have exactly the same protection. The subject matter has no bearing on whether the book is in or out of copyright.

Temperance
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Temperance » January 16th, 2006, 7:43 am

I tend to report these things when I see them. E-bay remove the listings within a couple days or so.

Best thing to do (if you own the copyright) is to contact the seller, threatening legal action.

Euan

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 16th, 2006, 10:29 am

I wonder if any of his following items are legit. They all seem dodgy to me. maybe the creator would know.


Bi section

Loops

Orson Wells

Hypno Bill

Club Sandwich

Psycho Straw

Scott Fridinger
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Scott Fridinger » January 16th, 2006, 10:50 am

Originally posted by Magi99:
I wonder if any of his following items are legit. They all seem dodgy to me. maybe the creator would know.


Bi section

Loops

Orson Wells

Hypno Bill

Club Sandwich

Psycho Straw
These are all commercially produced items that can be bought at most magic stores. If he is just selling/reselling shouldn't be an issue.

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 16th, 2006, 12:39 pm

Yes Scott,

If you look into his history, he has sold plenty of them.

He has copied music CD's & DVD's, so there is a reason to beleive that other items are questionable as well.

Thats why I said only the creator or the supplier would know if he has sold him the goods at wholesale, thus confirming if the goods are original or not.

Bill Palmer
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Bill Palmer » January 16th, 2006, 3:32 pm

Original CD --- $9.95
blank CD ---- 25
cd-burner $29.95

Seeing some thief get his a$$ thrown in jail for violating various copyrights

PRICELESSS!!!!

Get him, Martin!
Bill Palmer, MIMC

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2006, 1:33 am

Dear Bill and other good magic friends ... you know following up those who steal from me and other creative magic dealers is just a complete waste of time. Countless emails, a vast amount of effort and one petty criminal is put down and then ... a few weeks later another with a CD copying progam pops up out of the garbage. I could spend all of my time on the chase. The best way to put these con men down is not to buy from them but itjust doesn't seem to be happening. Everyone just wants to get something a little cheaper. If for every product I sell there are ten copies out there then so be it. My Magicassettes are probably the most copied magic products but I still sold hundreds and hundreds of the originals. I will just have to be one step ahead with new products and new ideas!

CHRIS
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby CHRIS » January 21st, 2006, 7:43 pm

Martin,

it is actually very easy on ebay to get rid of these thieves. I have shut down several illegal operations on ebay. Become a member of the ebay Vero program. Then it is one email to send to the Vero program and the auction will be shut down.

Another fun thing is to purchase one copy from the crook and then leave negative feedback explaining that he stole this copyrighted information. Negative feedback is visible for other buyers and can often harm his ebay operation much more than the profit he might make from selling rip off CDs.

Yes, these guys keep popping up, but I think it is not that much effort to cause them some headaches. If you want to do a bit more work you can contact their ISP and cause them further trouble to go online. Some ISPs are very cooperative.

If you need more info email me. I am happy to help.

Best,
Chris....

Bill Palmer
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Bill Palmer » January 22nd, 2006, 9:23 am

One of these bastards is working out of Canada. He had an outlet in Dallas who did not know that he had lied to her about selling the rights to some of Derren Brown's material.

The seller in Dallas is ready to go after his posterior.

It is said that Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Try selling her something under false pretences.

Actually, one can only hope that one of these fellows copies some CDs or DVDs that are owned by Sony. The fellow who is in charge of their music division is on the cusp between old generation and new generation syndicate. He will inflict punishment on these people that none of us is willing to perform.
Bill Palmer, MIMC

Guest

Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Guest » January 22nd, 2006, 11:48 am

With reference to Simon Beck above. I traced this chap quite some time ago on bahalf of numerous performers for counterfeiting, if he is still active then he is in breach of an agreement he made with Derren Browns legal representative who visited Simon at home. If anyone knows that Simon has been trading within the last 5 months, let me know please so I can contact him again. You can email me at Fraud@blueyonder.co.uk additionally anyone interested in their products being monitored 24/7 for counterfeit activity can contact me, I am in the process of setting up a small company to work with the eBay vero programme to close auctions down quicker and if necessary sue the offenders.

Fraud@Blueyonder.co.uk

Jacky Kahan
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Re: Here we go again, Ebay

Postby Jacky Kahan » January 22nd, 2006, 12:57 pm

Martin Breese said
Dear Bill and other good magic friends ... you know following up those who steal from me and other creative magic dealers is just a complete waste of time. Countless emails, a vast amount of effort and one petty criminal is put down and then ... a few weeks later another with a CD copying progam pops up out of the garbage. I could spend all of my time on the chase. The best way to put these con men down is not to buy from them but itjust doesn't seem to be happening. Everyone just wants to get something a little cheaper. If for every product I sell there are ten copies out there then so be it. My Magicassettes are probably the most copied magic products but I still sold hundreds and hundreds of the originals. I will just have to be one step ahead with new products and new ideas!
I agree... but many beginner magicians and other magicians worldwide don't read this or don't go on forums or don't have friends ... so they don't know...

I have the impression that more and more people "steal" ... Tim Ellis had a nice incentive with his website where he compares orginal and copies... why not make a Black list of "bad" ebay sellers that is available to all magicians? so before bidding we check the list....

Just my thoughts..

Jacky
www.magicbooks.be


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