ERDNASE

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Marco Pusterla
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Marco Pusterla » July 6th, 2020, 2:57 am

Bob, "Sig." is the short form of Italian "Signore" - "Mister" - what in English is "Mr."

It was a common prefix to the name for artists in the 19th and early 20th century to give an air of exoticism, which did not always indicate any Italian origin. One such example was of Sig. Blitz, but there were many more.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 5th, 2020, 6:41 pm

I just learned that Erdnase has been translated into Czech.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Larry S. » August 5th, 2020, 10:29 pm

Recently, I got an email from The Miracle Factory, talking about an upcoming book "The Expert". In the email, Todd states:

" I've finally located a long-lost film of the author of The Expert at the Card Table in action, demonstrating several examples of his card finesse in this brief clip. "

among other things having to do with images and film of the author.

Do we know anything about this?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 5th, 2020, 10:51 pm

Perhaps. Do you own a copy of the book Card Magic?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 6th, 2020, 12:05 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Perhaps. Do you own a copy of the book Card Magic?


"Card Magic" by Lewis Ganson?
Of some other book with "Card Magic" in its title - be it "Royal Road" or something else?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Yehuda » August 6th, 2020, 1:13 am

I assume he means Cardmagic, by Richard Kaufman. (Although he should know the title is one word :D .)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 6th, 2020, 1:55 am

Ahhh, yes!
Thanks Yehuda.
I sense another Erdnase revelation on the horizon, so I'll go get my copy and flip through for clues!!!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 6th, 2020, 2:24 am

Todd certainly does know how to research the crap out of any given subject matter, so this should be interesting.
https://www.miraclefactory.net/product/erdnase/

Can't find any clues in Richard's Cardmagic though? :)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby El Mystico » August 6th, 2020, 5:21 am

I suspect Richard is suggesting Todd's book has as much to do with the real author of Expert at the Card Table as CardMagic has to Shakespeare.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 6th, 2020, 10:34 am

Richard will have to confirm what he actually meant, but I do agree that it seemed his multiple Shakespeare "interviews" are somehow involved.
All the contributors to Cardmagic weren't yet born in 1902, so pretty safe bet (if there is any such thing when it comes to Erdnase) that the reference isn't to one of his contributing authors!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » August 6th, 2020, 11:09 am

I believe this is the book Richard refers to:

Image

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 6th, 2020, 11:11 am

Joe is correct.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 6th, 2020, 11:52 am

So ... the "Hilliard is Erdnase" theory?

I believe this has been posited by a few others over the years as well.
It may prove to be an enlightening read.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » August 6th, 2020, 1:54 pm

Roger M. wrote:It may prove to be an enlightening read.


It should be interesting.

In the prolegomenon of Greater Magic Hilliard writes, describing The Art of Magic 1909 : "The first born, however flawed and footless,is always the fondling. One flings one's cap over the moon but once." And: "Barely had this firstling been founded...."

Pretty convincing prose that AoM was his first book...

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 6th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Yes, Art of Magic.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » August 9th, 2020, 9:27 am

Glenndini wrote:I would also recommend a friends set of DVD's... the Alan Ackerman DVD set on Erdnase as you go through the book a second or a third time.

This set also includes a disc with pdf files of the Gardner-Smith Correspondence and some other authorship research materials.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Grippo's Wish » August 14th, 2020, 2:03 am

Joe Lyons wrote:I believe this is the book Richard refers to:

Image


This is only the card section from “Greater Magic”.

It was already pointed out in this thread that Todd’s Hilliar (Hilliard?) is William Hilliar(d), an assistant to Alexander Herrmann.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 14th, 2020, 11:04 am

It's not Hilliar. He was investigated long ago and dismissed as a potential author.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 14th, 2020, 3:29 pm

Erdnase features a trick in which the queens represent high society, or "the smart set."

J. N. Hilliard wrote a poem, "Her Barrette", which appeared in the Mar 1910 issue of (get this!) --- The Smart Set.

My work here is done.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 14th, 2020, 3:41 pm

Hilliard's play, "A Tale of Hoffmann", is an obvious tribute to Professor Hoffmann, from whom he learned so much.

Need I say more?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 14th, 2020, 3:47 pm

Hilliard's poem, "The Train to Trundlebed", published in the travel magazine The Four-Track News, speaks to his years on the railroad, fleecing passengers and becoming an artist with cards.

Do you need Fox Mulder to show you that THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 14th, 2020, 4:59 pm

Interesting findings Bill. Thanks.
There's also a poem from 1922 about Sherlock Holmes.
Not sure how E. T. A Hoffmann or 'Tales' connects to the card table book but it's fun to see Hilliard's writing in context.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 14th, 2020, 5:11 pm

I hope it is obvious that my preceding 3 posts were made tongue in cheek. Some of the "proofs" of earlier candidates have been anything but. I anticipate that the evidence that Todd will eventually show for Hilliard, or whoever it turns out to be, will be somewhat stronger.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zig Zagger » August 14th, 2020, 5:50 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:Erdnase features a trick in which the queens represent high society, or "the smart set."

J. N. Hilliard wrote a poem, "Her Barrette", which appeared in the Mar 1910 issue of (get this!) --- The Smart Set.

My work here is done.

OMG, and "The Smart Set" contains 'ertmasse' which could be 'Erdmasse' (which is German and translates as "earth mass" or "soil") which is but a typo away from Erdnase! :o

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » September 9th, 2020, 4:00 pm


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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Denis Behr » September 10th, 2020, 2:08 am

The new German edition came out last year. Curiously, it is a totally new translation (by Rainer Vollmar), while the previous translation into German by Christian Scherer was published in 1991 as a hardcover and reprinted 2009 as a softcover.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Mckay » September 10th, 2020, 7:30 am

I am out of the loop in these discussions.

Does anyone know anything about the new Todd Karr book? Also - does anyone feel like he will have finaly solved this mystery?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » September 10th, 2020, 11:53 am

Joe Mckay wrote:I am out of the loop in these discussions.

Does anyone know anything about the new Todd Karr book? Also - does anyone feel like he will have finaly solved this mystery?


I would guess it's going to depend almost entirely on the veracity of the evidence Karr is promising to present to the readers of his book.
He seems to be indicating that his evidence is somewhat iron clad ... but then he's out to sell some books, so the final analysis will have to be rendered by the books readers.

There's "evidence" and then there's "EVIDENCE!" ... and hopefully Karr will have a good helping of the later, as opposed to wisps of conjecture, personal opinion, unprecedented leaps of faith, and outright falsehoods strung together and presented as "fact" (as have some other candidates been presented in the past few years).

It's two large volumes, although there is the seemingly obligatory "annotated" EATCT included, which could take up a sizeable portion of the book, and which may or may not prove insightful, depending on your personal view of Karr as an "expert" enough card handler to analyze EATCT from that perspective - as opposed to simply proposing and further verifying a candidate.

It seems J.N Hilliard may be a candidate, which wouldn't be too much of a stretch ... but the evidence to back that claim up will have to wait until Karr releases the book.
I've never been big on pre-ordering books, and will likely wait until the book generates some knowledgeable reviews, as it's all too easy to propose a candidate, back him up with nebulous evidence, and hope to quickly sell 1000 books at $250.00 a throw (not that Karr is doing anything remotely like that, just that's it's all to easy to do).

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » September 16th, 2020, 10:29 am


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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » September 16th, 2020, 11:52 am

There is some complicated publishing history behind the graphic novel Bob just linked to.

(Sarah and David Trustman were responsible for the Memory Arts book about memorizing a deck.)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » September 16th, 2020, 3:18 pm

Complicated indeed.

David does not even give a mention to Sarah on the page where he thanks a few people "for their input and tolerance during my very intense creation period of this book".

Cold!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby MagicbyAlfred » September 16th, 2020, 3:43 pm

Brad Jeffers wrote:Complicated indeed.

David does not even give a mention to Sarah on the page where he thanks a few people "for their input and tolerance during my very intense creation period of this book".

Cold!


Wouldn't it be ironic if he forgot?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » September 16th, 2020, 8:31 pm

I'm sure there's more to the story.
A detailed explanation from one side of a divorce, while the other side of the divorce remains silent doesn't really offer anything you might call a fact.

Regardless, I'd never purchase the book simply on principle ... at least until I knew more about the accuracy of her claims of outright theft.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 16th, 2020, 10:34 pm

She should have sued him! She certainly appears to have the evidence to support her case.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » September 19th, 2020, 10:25 pm

If you have Amazon Prime, here is a few minutes of the late Denny Haney on Erdnase.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » September 25th, 2020, 1:28 am

Bill Mullins wrote:If you have Amazon Prime, here is a few minutes of the late Denny Haney on Erdnase.

Wow, thanks for that link, Bill. So much misinformation there! Where does EATCT discuss center deals and riffle stacking? Fun to see Denny again, but it makes me wonder if he ever read it?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » September 25th, 2020, 1:42 pm

Richard Hatch wrote: Where does EATCT discuss center deals and riffle stacking?

David Ben has kindly pointed out to me that there are several subtle and sophisticated references to riffle stacking in EATCT.
In the section on "Ordinary methods of stocking, locating and securing" (pp. 60-65 of the standard editions) his "dalliance with the deck" involves riffling the deck to stack cards, and riffling is also used to glimpse top cards before positioning them in favorable positions.
I'm not sure that is what Denny meant when making passing reference to riffle stacking in EATCT, but I accept a correction on that point! If there are any center deal references, let me know.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » September 26th, 2020, 11:26 am

Bob Coyne wrote:Expert at the Card Table graphic novel:

https://www.amazon.com/Artifice-Subterfuge-Expert-Table-Graphic/dp/0997892781/


I received a copy of this from Amazon. It's a pretty decent execution of an odd idea.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby JHostler » September 26th, 2020, 11:53 am

Has anyone ever looked into newspaperman Eber S. Andrews? He certainly had the writing chops, publishing know-how, and financial means necessary to pull off the first edition. What he lacked was everything else - any known connection to gambling or magic.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » September 26th, 2020, 5:19 pm

JHostler wrote:Has anyone ever looked into newspaperman Eber S. Andrews? He certainly had the writing chops, publishing know-how, and financial means necessary to pull off the first edition. What he lacked was everything else - any known connection to gambling or magic.

I looked at a lot of "E. S. Andrews" in my initial explorations, including this one. I thought he was a good prospect, being a publisher within striking distance of Chicago. In my presentation on Erdnase at the LA Conference in 2001, I mentioned him and showed a photo of his publishing business, with "E. S. Andrews, Printer" shown clearly (from a book with a history of Williamston). I abandoned him in favor of Edwin S. Andrews when I found out about him, since he seemed a much better fit to me. Eber is about 9 years older (born 1853) than M. D. Smith, the artist, recalled the man he met being, and I wondered why he would have had the book printed in Chicago, when he could have done it in house. I also was unable to find passages in his newspaper that he would have authored, that sounded to me like the book. He also survived until 1945, which makes one wonder why he never came forward to take credit for such a publishing success. But I can't yet rule him out, so if someone can find more information about him that makes him a better candidate, I'd love to see it!


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