ERDNASE

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Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 20th, 2019, 10:33 am

Zig Zagger wrote:Granted, that's rubbish.....


It is indeed.
I'm not interested in another fundamentally inaccurate MFA take on Erdnase.

Every additional bit of made-up crap dished out as "hard fact" obfuscates the case that much further - and does nothing to advance the conversation.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Christopher1979 » June 28th, 2019, 1:58 pm

Roger M. wrote:
Zig Zagger wrote:Granted, that's rubbish.....


It is indeed.
I'm not interested in another fundamentally inaccurate MFA take on Erdnase.

Every additional bit of made-up crap dished out as "hard fact" obfuscates the case that much further - and does nothing to advance the conversation.


You do have a very valid point Roger. I am surprised that the whole story of Erdnase has not been made into some feature-length film. There have been multi-million dollar budgets spent on many inferior subjects...

Saying that "if" something was made it probably would be based on fiction. Maybe there is not enough context to make a worthy full-length film. The only short film I have seen was on the 10 DVD Erdnase set done by Allan Ackerman. One of the first scenes was Erdnase shuffling with a plastic Bee deck from about 2003..... attention to detail at its best!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 28th, 2019, 3:23 pm

If you start with the printer, the fire, the plates, and the exact documented input of the illustrator ... you have your mystery. Whether or not you add "Nosey" to finance the book or the literati of the time ... well remember the lesson of the Lotta. ;)
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Zig Zagger
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zig Zagger » August 19th, 2019, 4:25 pm

Roger M. wrote:I'm not interested in another fundamentally inaccurate MFA take on Erdnase.

Every additional bit of made-up crap dished out as "hard fact" obfuscates the case that much further - and does nothing to advance the conversation.

Then you will be interested in this scholarly article found by Q. Kumber about flaws in recent Voynich Manuscript research and debates and the telling parallels with our Erdnasian skirmish here: https://forums.geniimagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51963
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Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 28th, 2019, 1:14 am

More anagrammatic pseudonyms:
Science Fiction author Hugo Gernsback (for whom the Hugo Award is named) wrote under the names Grego Banshuck, Greno Gashbuck, Kars Gugenchob, Gus N. Habergock & Beno Ruckshagg. Mort Weisinger wrote under the name Tom Erwin Geris.

And for those of you scoring at home, don't miss the examples in this thread.

Bob Coyne
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » August 28th, 2019, 1:14 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:More anagrammatic pseudonyms:
Science Fiction author Hugo Gernsback (for whom the Hugo Award is named) wrote under the names Grego Banshuck, Greno Gashbuck, Kars Gugenchob, Gus N. Habergock & Beno Ruckshagg. Mort Weisinger wrote under the name Tom Erwin Geris.

And for those of you scoring at home, don't miss the examples in this thread.

Nice...amazing how many there are!

For anyone wanting to see all of the above and others in one place, I've collected them from this thread and put in an appendix to my Sanders/Erdnase document: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~coyne/erdnase-sanders-use-of-language.html#reversed-pen-names

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 3rd, 2019, 6:18 pm

My father was a coin collector, and a collector of related things. He also collected medals and tokens, paper money, depression scrip, and old checks drawn on middle Tennessee banks (where he lived his whole life). So when he died, Mom and I and to go through a lot of stuff. Amongst other things, he had a bunch of issues of The Check Collector, which was a privately published periodical for collectors of checks, with articles about them, ads for sale, etc. There are issues of this on the Internet Archive, if you want to see them.

Oddly enough, one of them has an article by Chris Wasshuber, in which he gives a short version of the Erdnase story and requests help in finding the check written to Marshall D. Smith to pay for Smith's artwork. It would be a billion-to-one shot if it is ever found, but good for him for asking. The funny thing about it is that the editor of the journal, after Chris's short article, immediately points out that S. W. Erdnase is E. S. Andrews, reversed: "This would be quite a coincidence if it were not purposeful. . . . "

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jack Shalom » October 29th, 2019, 9:47 am

Hi,

Just wondering, is this "our" Marshall D. Smith?

http://www.askart.com/artist/Marshall_D ... Smith.aspx

And if so, is it true he lived until 1973--almost a hundred years?

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » October 29th, 2019, 10:33 am

That's him.
He was (is) somewhat renowned for his street scenes, especially those in New Orleans.
Interestingly, Smith's paintings have sold for over $150,000.00 ... which makes the $10,000.00 (give or take a few thousand) that a EATCT in good condition tends to go for look like a bargain!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » November 6th, 2019, 2:20 pm

Podcast on Forensic Linguistics.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » November 7th, 2019, 12:45 am

If you're looking for a copy of the Gardner-Smith Correspondence, here's one on eBay that is currently a bargain, with just a day or so left. Seller has a good rating:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-The-Gardner-Smith-Correspondence-ERDNASE-Expert-at-the-Card-Table-CHEATING/254407605758

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » November 10th, 2019, 9:21 pm

I missed this when it first appeared -- an article about M. F. Andrews.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jdwatchboy » November 18th, 2019, 8:59 pm

It’s a study that will never end.Image


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Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » November 19th, 2019, 2:04 am

~9 NPR minutes on forensic linguistics.

jdwatchboy
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Re: RE: Re: ERDNASE

Postby jdwatchboy » November 19th, 2019, 7:34 am

Bill Mullins wrote:~9 NPR minutes on forensic linguistics.

Very very interesting

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 24th, 2019, 8:39 pm

Did the printer McKinney have partners?
https://books.google.com/books?id=TAdGA ... 00&f=false
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Bob Coyne
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » December 13th, 2019, 12:23 am

I've recently come across another distinctive linguistic trait (and type of wordplay) shared by Erdnase and Sanders. They both exhibit a tendency to transform words from their common form into a non-standard and different part of speech. This results in quite unusual adverbs (slantingly) or verbs (to convex). And it fits in well with the other similarities in how Erdnase and Sanders creatively play with language, adding weight to the argument that they are the same person.

In this example, an adjective or noun is used in an uncommon manner as a causative or inchoative verb, representing the object taking on a geometric shape.
Erdnase: Then, with a sliding downward movement of the left thumb crimp or CONVEX the cards sufficiently to read the index on each
Sanders: the material will CONE UP on the floor of the bin

In this example, a common noun or verb is converted into an unusual adverb.
Erdnase: The deck is held SLANTINGLY
Sanders: First PROTESTINGLY, then insistently, and finally angrily, he insisted upon a return of the missing article

In this example, the word crowding is used in a much less common adjectival form.
Erdnase: who have been least CROWDING and therefore more deserving
Sanders: and have followed with admiration and pride their CROWDING labors through nearly half a century

Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 15th, 2019, 5:47 pm

Another great find Bob! The distinctive stylizing of the nouns and verbs shared by both writers is uncanny. More circumstantial evidence to add to your file on Sanders.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zig Zagger » January 26th, 2020, 1:58 pm

Whew, it looks like Mr. Erdnase might need to change his FB status soon from "legend" to "has-been"... :(

Pitching his forthcoming tome "Gambling Sleight of Hand - Forte Years of Research", Steve Forte writes:

Was Erdnase a cheater who plied his trade with moves and systems that he invented? Unfortunately, my findings suggest that Erdnase was neither a cheater nor an expert at the card table! I expect this chapter to jolt many cardmen.

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Ian Kendall
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Ian Kendall » January 26th, 2020, 4:32 pm

Somewhere, Tony Giorgio is smiling...

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ERDNASE

Postby jwjmcd » January 26th, 2020, 5:22 pm

Ian .....Am I right in thinking that Tony thought that real hustlers treat Erdnase methods as “myth.”

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Ian Kendall » January 26th, 2020, 5:58 pm

Pretty much.

If you have a Genii sub, head over to the archives and read The Erdnase Letters (from the 80s and 90s).

TG was not a fan, let's put it that way :)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Christopher1979 » January 26th, 2020, 6:59 pm

I think we have to apply some logic on Erdnase that I am sure has been spoken about in great length here. Erdnase in the eyes of the magician is a very different Erdnase in the eyes of the gambler, hustler or cheat. The legend always ends up being bigger than the actual truth. This was the same with Walter Scott the phantom at the card table. I am sure when we get to read Steve Forte's take on Erdnase it will redefine our views forever.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leo Garet » January 26th, 2020, 7:44 pm

Ian Kendall wrote:Pretty much.

If you have a Genii sub, head over to the archives and read The Erdnase Letters (from the 80s and 90s).

TG was not a fan, let's put it that way :)


I think TG shared his lack of fandom equally between Erdnase and the worshippers in the Magic fraternity.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jwjmcd » January 27th, 2020, 3:03 pm

Ian Kendall wrote:Pretty much.

If you have a Genii sub, head over to the archives and read The Erdnase Letters (from the 80s and 90s).

TG was not a fan, let's put it that way :)

Thanks Ian will have a look.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby brianarudolph » January 27th, 2020, 8:54 pm


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Richard Kaufman
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 27th, 2020, 9:21 pm

Hahahahahaha.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 27th, 2020, 9:43 pm

A little early in the year but - sure, :) :) :D
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Bob Coyne
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » January 27th, 2020, 11:58 pm

brianarudolph wrote:Thoughts on this announcement?

https://www.miraclefactory.net/product/ ... 7bdc162697

Wow! It sounds like a wealth of new evidence has been uncovered up and that the author has been definitively identified. Amazing and wonderful if true. I can't wait to find out more!

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » January 28th, 2020, 10:17 am

Karr has always had some rather original thinking on Erdnase, and it will be interesting to see who his candidate is, and whether the author has the chops to break down EATCT with any real authority. It's one thing to declare you've identified the author, and another thing entirely to break down his book in a manner that could be described as "expert".

Two things I find uncomfortable though, and that's that it appears that Karr is committing an entire book to the concept that he's discovered the true identity of Erdnase.
Hopefully he's got the evidence to back it up, and that evidence will further be accepted as legitimate by the Erdnase community.

The second thing of course, is pre-ordering from Miracle Factory ... not something I'd ever consider doing.

In short, if ever there was a book which might require a potential purchaser to wait for the reviews, this would be it.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » January 28th, 2020, 11:12 am

It’s certainly enticing.

From the email:

”(If you've followed some of my previous writings on the pseudonymously credited author, S. W. Erdnase, this is NOT colorful conman E. S. Andrews or any other lead I previously examined.)“
Bold italics mine.

A brand new candidate?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » January 28th, 2020, 12:13 pm

Joe Lyons wrote:It’s certainly enticing.

From the email:

”(If you've followed some of my previous writings on the pseudonymously credited author, S. W. Erdnase, this is NOT colorful conman E. S. Andrews or any other lead I previously examined.)“
Bold italics mine.

A brand new candidate?

Given that the book will include selections from the author's magic notebooks, annotations and variations the author made on EATCT, and photos and other writings of the author, it sounds like this must someone who left a fairly extensive paper trail. I wonder if this is a magician who is known and even published but not previously identified as being Erdnase?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jack Shalom » January 28th, 2020, 12:50 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Hahahahahaha.


So...you're skeptical?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 28th, 2020, 1:13 pm

Bob Coyne wrote:Given that the book will include selections from the author's magic notebooks, annotations and variations the author made on EATCT, and photos and other writings of the author, it sounds like this must someone who left a fairly extensive paper trail. I wonder if this is a magician who is known and even published but not previously identified as being Erdnase?
From the ad copy, "Written, researched, and designed by Todd Karr" which would make him "the author" .
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Zig Zagger
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zig Zagger » January 28th, 2020, 1:56 pm

Jack Shalom wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:Hahahahahaha.


So...you're skeptical?

Or, to ask more precisely: Laughing at the notion of a new Erdnase "ex machina" or at the announcement "coming summer 2020"? :D
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 28th, 2020, 2:08 pm

I know who the candidate is. It's beyond preposterous.
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Zig Zagger
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zig Zagger » January 28th, 2020, 2:13 pm

Bob Coyne wrote:Given that the book will include selections from the author's magic notebooks, annotations and variations the author made on EATCT, and photos and other writings of the author, it sounds like this must someone who left a fairly extensive paper trail. I wonder if this is a magician who is known and even published but not previously identified as being Erdnase?

Probably time to lay our bets on the table and take sides before these two exciting books will be out!

I'd love to learn that Dr. JameS W. E lliott, known both as "Champion Card Manipulator of the World" amongst magicians and "The Boston Kid" amongst card sharps, was in fact erDmaSe...uumm...Erdnase! Not the most improbable candidate I have seen...
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Bob Coyne
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » January 28th, 2020, 3:18 pm

In 2015, Karr posted this (in this thread):
I'm pretty sure I've got my man.

Charles L. Andrews aka Charles E. Andrews was later William G. Andrews, advance man for Alexander Herrmann, and wrote extensive articles describing card moves and effects in language and terms matching The Expert.

I'm arranging my hundreds of documents into a complete timeline with documentation.

So seems like this could be the new candidate presented in the upcoming book. (i.e. different than his previous E.S. Andrews candidate)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » January 28th, 2020, 3:27 pm

jwjmcd wrote:Ian .....Am I right in thinking that Tony thought that real hustlers treat Erdnase methods as “myth.”


I have suspected for years that Erdnase was no card shark. I am quite sure he was a magician who knew as much about cheating at cards as I do about the care and breeding of Japanese butterflies or alternatively as most members of the Genii Forum know about magic. The book is too well written and the word "magician" jumps right off the pages. I have met some nefarious characters in my life, some of whom have been card cheats. They aren't the brightest sparks in the universe and only know a tiny handful of cheating moves, probably only one or two, (three at the VERY most) and do them quite crudely.

No card cheat knows all those myriad moves in Erdnase. Only a magician would come up with all that stuff and writing a section on magic at the back of the book rather gives the game away. And very few magicians have the mentality or the nerve to cheat at cards anyway. They would make very good librarians or accountants. Alas they are far too innocent in the ways of the world to indulge in wickedness of that kind. I have always suspected the author of that book was a well known card magician who was around at that time.

No. I think Tony Giorgio was right all along.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zig Zagger » January 28th, 2020, 4:40 pm

Bob Coyne wrote:In 2015, Karr posted this (in this thread):
I'm pretty sure I've got my man.

Charles L. Andrews aka Charles E. Andrews was later William G. Andrews, advance man for Alexander Herrmann, and wrote extensive articles describing card moves and effects in language and terms matching The Expert.

I'm arranging my hundreds of documents into a complete timeline with documentation.

So seems like this could be the new candidate presented in the upcoming book. (i.e. different than his previous E.S. Andrews candidate)

Interesting. Good catch, Bob, thank you!

performer wrote:No card cheat knows all those myriad moves in Erdnase. Only a magician would come up with all that stuff and writing a section on magic at the back of the book rather gives the game away. And very few magicians have the mentality or the nerve to cheat at cards anyway. They would make very good librarians or accountants. Alas they are far too innocent in the ways of the world to indulge in wickedness of that kind. I have always suspected the author of that book was a well known card magician who was around at that time.

Your psychic vibes may be right, performer, but my librarian/accountant vibes tell me that you have vented this assessment before. ;)
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