ERDNASE

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 1:17 am

Zenner wrote:
The same goes for the the shuffle described in the August, 1901, edition of Mahatma. Walter G. Peterkin ('Hal Merton') claimed that the first two passes were of his own invention but did not say who invented the third. It is quite possible that Harry Thompson showed him the 'pass' before including it in his own book. (‘The Blind Shuffle for Securing Selected Card’)


Are you suggesting that Merton's third pass is the same as Erdnase's "Blind Shuffle for Securing Selected Card"? Because they aren't. Merton, after a single round of overhand shuffling, leaves the card on top. Erdnase uses a shuffle to a jog, then another shuffle, and leaves the card on the bottom of the pack so it may be bottom palmed.

And the idea that, since Merton didn't claim it, it could be Harry's, doesn't have much to support it.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » July 31st, 2015, 8:33 am

lybrary wrote:"Estimating for Printers" is available to view free of charge here http://pds.lib.harvard.edu/pds/view/51623703

I would be interested to hear your opinion about Gallaway sounding like Erdnase or not.


Thanks for making this available!

One small (probably inconsequential) thing I noticed when reading a few pages of Gallaway is the use of the term "stock" as in the card/paper stock used in printing. It occurred to me that Erdnase uses the term "stock" extensively in a related but somewhat different context, for a group of playing cards ("to retain the top stock" in false shuffles). It would be interesting to know if the term "stock" was commonly used in other books on card technique or if that's original with Erdnase.

If original with him, then the choice of that term is a small piece of evidence on the side of Erdnase being familiar with printing (which Gallaway obviously was). This would counterbalance the "divining rod" trick with its mining associations that point in a similar manner to WE Sanders. :-)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 8:51 am

Bob, I did a quick check. The term stock as in 'top stock' or 'bottom stock' does not appear in Roterberg's "New Era Card Tricks", but it does appear in "How Gamblers Win". So it definitely was a term that was in use by gamblers.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Pecore » July 31st, 2015, 8:58 am

Bob Coyne wrote:
One small (probably inconsequential) thing I noticed when reading a few pages of Gallaway is the use of the term "stock" as in the card/paper stock used in printing. It occurred to me that Erdnase uses the term "stock" extensively in a related but somewhat different context, for a group of playing cards ("to retain the top stock" in false shuffles). It would be interesting to know if the term "stock" was commonly used in other books on card technique or if that's original with Erdnase.


Here is Bart Whaley says in Encyclopedic Dictionary of Magic about the term "stock":

"Originally the cant of British card players by 1584 (Scot, as also the earliest citation in the OED/2; 1612 Rid; 1674 Cotton; 1721 Neve; 1763 Dean). Later that of American card players by (1857 Green; 1891 Quinn). Among these card players (the honest sort) the word had the quite benign meaning of the cards remaining in the undealt portion of the deck, that is, what today would also be called the talon. Thence adapted by American card sharps in its above nefarious sense by 1865 (Evans, 20, as "top stock"; 1894 J.N. Maskelyne; 1902 Erdnase; 1912 Quinn; and 1944 MacDougall).
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » July 31st, 2015, 9:31 am

magicam wrote: Peter, I can’t speak to the timing of the public sale of Erdnase’s book, but if the LOC received two copies in March 1902 bound in the same manner as other 1st edition copies, then it’s likely that all copies (or at least a good portion of the print run) were bound at the same time. Generally speaking, if done, final text proofing was at the galley stage (if there was one) or in the course of press make-ready. Though there are certainly well-known exceptions of trial bindings, typically copies were not “finally” bound for proofing purposes.


Where does it say anywhere that the books sent for the copyright application were bound?

Without more, “goods sold and delivered” sounds like a supplier of sorts; in any case, IMO it seems to clearly indicate that E. C[B]. Andrews sold something to McKinney for which the latter owed the former some money. If McKinney owed Andrews this money for sales of TEATCT, then “goods sold and delivered” seems an awkward way of describing this debt. Perhaps it will be found that Andrews was in the printing business, selling the kinds of things that McKinney would use.


I took it that McKinney's company had sold a product for E.C. Andrews and posted it to the customer. Didn't Adrian Plate indicate that he had bought his copy of The Expert from McKinney? McKinney would then owe Andrews his percentage as per their contract agreed in August, 1902.

Some years back I floated the idea that the deep price cut in TEATCT was related to McKinney’s BK, as the timing of these events seemed compelling. But if a stock of TEATCT was not listed as a McKinney asset, such theory seems considerably (and perhaps fatally) weakened.


If you look on page 340 of the Bankruptcy Files, you will see that Drake had due to him “2000 printed covers, 7½" x 10" - S 3 colors” Were these for a Drake edition of The Expert? His 1905 edition was green with red and black printing; I make that 3 colours. Perhaps the price cut was to unload some of those 2000 books when they had been printed?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » July 31st, 2015, 9:49 am

Bill Mullins wrote: Are you suggesting that Merton's third pass is the same as Erdnase's "Blind Shuffle for Securing Selected Card"? Because they aren't. Merton, after a single round of overhand shuffling, leaves the card on top. Erdnase uses a shuffle to a jog, then another shuffle, and leaves the card on the bottom of the pack so it may be bottom palmed.

And the idea that, since Merton didn't claim it, it could be Harry's, doesn't have much to support it.


Hello again Bill. I got the following from the March, 1995, Linking Ring --

Dick Williams (author of Lights! Cameras! Magic!) wrote an article for this journal called "A Magic Whodunit" (Dec. '92) describing his research on a "Shuffle Pass" or "Mahatma Pass." Dick had concluded that the pass substitute belonged to either David Devant or Victor Farelli. Steve Burton wrote to say that "The shuffle control you refer to was first published in The Expert at the Card Table by S.W. Erdnase in 1902 (Feb. '93 issue).

Several weeks ago, Mr. Williams was reading the two-volume reprint of The Mahatma magic magazine and let out a shout. He writes: "In the August, 1901 edition of Mahatma (on new pagination, page 495) I found 'Three New Passes' written by Hal Merton (stage name of Walter G. Peterkin, pro stage magician who edited Mahatma 1900-1901. He left magic to become a businessman in Amityville, New York. Horrors!). The third pass described is what was later called the Shuffle Pass, Mahatma Pass, etc.

This beats Erdnase by a year. Mr. Peterkin states that the three passes
"have never before appeared in print."

Thanks for writing, Dick. This control was the favorite of Matt Schlien [sic!] and is still the main one used by his son, Chuck.


You sort it out.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » July 31st, 2015, 10:32 am

Zenner wrote:
magicam wrote: Peter, I can’t speak to the timing of the public sale of Erdnase’s book, but if the LOC received two copies in March 1902 bound in the same manner as other 1st edition copies, then it’s likely that all copies (or at least a good portion of the print run) were bound at the same time. Generally speaking, if done, final text proofing was at the galley stage (if there was one) or in the course of press make-ready. Though there are certainly well-known exceptions of trial bindings, typically copies were not “finally” bound for proofing purposes.


Where does it say anywhere that the books sent for the copyright application were bound?


Having examined the surviving deposit copy at the Library of Congress, I can attest to the fact that the binding is indistinguishable from the other first edition copies I have examined (green cloth with gilt letters).

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 11:25 am

Zenner wrote: Hello again Bill. I got the following from the March, 1995, Linking Ring --

[lots of stuff]


You sort it out.

Peter Zenner


I did. They aren't the same.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 1:13 pm

I am looking for some feedback on the following quantitative contemplation: how likely is it to find somebody with a first edition of EATCT who was a male adult in 1901?

The population of the US in 1901 was about 80 million. That means about 40 million males. Removing children and seniors I get 20 million.

How many first editions were printed? Electroplates typically hold up to print runs of 30,000. That is our upper limit. Richard Hatch tracked more than 100 first editions. That is our lower limit. From the bankruptcy files I see McKinney printing 6000 copies of a book on photography for Drake. From this I get that McKinney probably didn't print more than 10,000 EATCT.

If we now assume that all these 10,000 were actually sold, which is highly unlikely, we would get 10k/20000k= 1/2000. Meaning the chance to find somebody with a first edition of EATCT would be less than 1/2000 if I look at adult males.

Do you agree?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » July 31st, 2015, 1:53 pm

^^^ Chris, electros were appreciably more expensive to create than stereos, so if plates were created for the first edition, I'd suspect that the latter were used. As an aside, both electro and stereo plates are quite durable (the former comparatively more durable), and if they were used, handled, cleaned and stored with care, they'd show little to no wear even after 30,000 impressions. It was the rough handling, etc., that limited their lives.

I think the max estimate of 10,000 copies for the first edition print run is way too much. My guess would be an absolute max of 2,000 copies, but probably more like 1,000 or perhaps even only 500. I doubt the market back then could have absorbed a ton of copies (especially in light of the apparent paucity of widespread advertising for TEATCT prior to Drake's reprint). Had anywhere near 10,000 copies been printed, it seems highly unlikely that Drake would have issued a reprint only 3 years later.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 2:20 pm

Clay, I agree with you. The likelihood is probably closer to 1/10000, but I am trying to establish a safe upper bound. I will later use these safe upper bounds to estimate how likely it is that a candidate is or is not Erdnase. The numbers will be shocking.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 2:30 pm

The numbers you are asking about would be relevant for the question "What are the odds a randomly selected adult male in 1902 would own a copy of Erdnase?"

But Gallaway isn't random -- the only reason we care about him at all is that he owned a copy. The odds are 1/1 that he owned one.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » July 31st, 2015, 2:57 pm

^^^ Bill, I get the gist, but I'm not sure statisticians would agree with your odds analysis. ;) But following on your oddsmaking question, I'd rephrase it thus:

What are the odds that an adult male who (i) apparently had an interest in gambling books, (ii) worked for the printer who printed a gambling book at the time such book was printed, and (iii) possibly worked directly on the production of such book, would come to own such a book?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 3:10 pm

Bill, the question I am asking is how likely is it to find somebody that looks like Erdnase, given the specific set of evidence we have for any candidate, but isn't. This will tell you how sure we can be about a particular candidate.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 3:16 pm

Edward Finck wrote:
lybrary wrote:From the bankruptcy files it is pretty clear that James McKinney did not have an in-house bindery and outsourced such work. This was the norm back then for print shops. Typesetting and printing go together well, but binding is a different beast and was usually handled by separate companies who specialized in it.


Actually McKinney was both a printer and a book-binder and when he dissolved into bankruptcy he immediately reformed in 1903 as McKinney and Gallaway (with McKinney's son Patrick onboard too) and they too were book-binders. It's likely that some assets where surreptitiously moved from McKinney and Co. and put in McKinney and Gallaway but there doesn't seem to be solid evidence of that.


The papers show that McKinney did own binding equipment, and they owed "chattel mortgages" on the equipment to the various manufacturers (essentially, the manufacturers delivered the equipment but held liens on it until it was fully paid for). But the equipment was in the possession of the Chicago Book Binding Company at the time of the bankruptcy, not McKinney and Gallaway. McKinney owned ~$22000 in stock in Chicago Book Binding Company. So this looks very much like the surreptitious movement of equipment alluded to above.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 31st, 2015, 3:19 pm

magicam wrote:^^^ Bill, I get the gist, but I'm not sure statisticians would agree with your odds analysis. ;) But following on your oddsmaking question, I'd rephrase it thus:
... would come to own such a book?


Hey the guys down the block had these remaindered - free with a pack of marked cards - want one? They don't have autographed copies but it's a fun read.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 3:28 pm

lybrary wrote:Bill, the question I am asking is how likely is it to find somebody that looks like Erdnase, given the specific set of evidence we have for any candidate, but isn't.


I think I understand what you are trying to do. I just don't think it is useful, because you are applying the analysis to someone who already fulfills the criteria.

Gallaway is interesting because he is at the intersection of two sets: Employees of McKinney, and Owners of 1st edition copies. I think you are saying it is likely he is Erdnase because it is so unlikely that a person would be in both of those sets. But we don't know how unlikely it is.

We know who (some of) other employees of McKinney are from the bankruptcy files, but we don't know if any of them had copies of the book. But my guess is that it is far more likely that an employee of the company would have owned one, than any random adult male elsewhere in the U.S.

We don't have any thing like a list of original owners of 1st edition copies of the book, so we can't correlate in the other direction back to "which of them were tied to McKinney?" If there were 1000 1st edition copies, how many of them were owned by McKinney employees?

If the sets <employees of McKinney> and <owners of 1st edition copies> were completely uncorrelated with each other, then figuring out the odds as you are trying to do might reveal something about how unusual Gallaway is to be in both sets. But I suspect that they are correlated, and we don't have enough data to reveal the amount of correlation, so any output of the analysis has a huge error bar that cannot be estimated.

I think Bayesian Analysis is the mathematical tool that is used to figure out these problems. Now if only there were an expert statistician who was interested in Erdnase . . .

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 3:42 pm

Bill, I suggest you wait for my analysis. Arguing about what you think I may do and critique me on that is silly.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Edward Finck » July 31st, 2015, 3:45 pm

Bill Mullins wrote: If there were 1000 1st edition copies, how many of them were owned by McKinney employees?


Most employees of a printing firm who might want a copy from a job would probably get an overrun copy and not part of the 1000 ordered by the customer. This sort of thing happens all the time.

Does anyone know if the Gallaway/Marshall copy has any annotations or notes of any kind, like what might possibly be found in the Author's personal copy?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 3:49 pm

magicam wrote:I think the max estimate of 10,000 copies for the first edition print run is way too much. My guess would be an absolute max of 2,000 copies, but probably more like 1,000 or perhaps even only 500. I doubt the market back then could have absorbed a ton of copies (especially in light of the apparent paucity of widespread advertising for TEATCT prior to Drake's reprint).



But as these things go, it seems to be fairly common. Copies come up for sale all the time. Richard Hatch has said he knows of 100 or so copies extant.

Compare this to Ritter's Combined Treatise on Draw Poker. When I was working on Ritter's biography, I tried to do a census on how many copies are around. I could identify fewer than 10. Yet the book was much more heavily advertised upon publication than was Erdnase.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 3:49 pm

lybrary wrote:Bill, I suggest you wait for my analysis. Arguing about what you think I may do and critique me on that is silly.


Fair enough

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Marty Demarest » July 31st, 2015, 4:06 pm

Chris, you seem to be calculating odds based on someone having The Expert at the time of its publication.

How do you know that the Gallaway copy was owned by him in 1902? Do you know that he didn't purchase it while browsing a used bookstore in 1918? During what time span did Gallaway use that bookplate?

I've examined the Gallaway copy at the CARC, and I didn't notice any inscription of a date or any indication of its provenance other than the bookplate.

EDIT: Just as a counter-example, Del Adelphia's first edition of The Expert, in Mike Caveney's Egyptian Hall Museum, has the name "Adelphia" written inside in the handwriting that Adelphia used until ca. 1904 (possibly around when he changed the spelling of his first name and withdrew somewhat from magic). So it's extremely likely that Del Adelphia acquired his copy of The Expert shortly after its publication.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » July 31st, 2015, 4:15 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
magicam wrote:I think the max estimate of 10,000 copies for the first edition print run is way too much. My guess would be an absolute max of 2,000 copies, but probably more like 1,000 or perhaps even only 500. I doubt the market back then could have absorbed a ton of copies (especially in light of the apparent paucity of widespread advertising for TEATCT prior to Drake's reprint).

But as these things go, it seems to be fairly common. Copies come up for sale all the time. Richard Hatch has said he knows of 100 or so copies extant. ...

Which would suggest an 80% mortality/attrition for a print run of 500, and 90% for a print run of 1,000. My guess could be dead wrong, but consider one of Peter Zenner's posts wherein he notes that the McKinney BK docs state that Drake -- a much larger publisher than Erdnase -- was owed 2,000 tri-color covers. I guess one could argue that this quantity was only a part of a more substantial run, but I tend to doubt it. So if Drake was printing only 2,000 copies of a book (and Drake was in the business of making large sales), why think that Erdnase would print more than that?

In any case, if Erdnase paid for the printing and binding of upwards of 10,000 copies, then he probably didn't need the money as he claims.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » July 31st, 2015, 4:19 pm

Marty Demarest wrote:Also from Gardner's notes of his initial interview with M.D. Smith:

"He [Erdnase] had a small board, like a chessboard, with green baize on it, and Smith thinks he remembers a small ridge about half-inch high around edges. Placed it on table. Did the card tricks on it, and used it as base for posing the pictures. Board about 2 feet square."

Q: What do you call a self-professed card cheating expert who demonstrates his skill by whipping out a close-up mat and performing card tricks?

A: A magician.

Marty, if Smith’s recollections of the ridge at the board’s perimeter are accurate, then that’s no magician’s close-up mat – at least I’ve never seen or heard of one with ridges. On the other hand (and trying to make sense of Smith’s recollection), perhaps a ridged mat would be handy for card games where a strong jostle might spill the card deck on the floor – like in a train. Hard to know if the reference to “2 feet square” means a board measuring 2 feet by 2 feet, or one with 2 sq. feet of playing area (about 17 inches by 17 inches). I wonder if the mats described by Smith were sold in either legitimate stores (for recreational card players who travelled) or gambling houses.

Random thoughts …

Peter Zenner mentions that the McKinney BK docs show McKinney owing some printing work to Drake. Perhaps it’s been noted before, but this existing business relationship may explain how Drake came to reprint TEATCT – McKinney introduced Erdnase to Drake – and thus may add credence to Drake’s purported statement that Erdnase’s real surname was Andrews.

Chris Wasshuber wrote:Erdnase uses noun phrases which are extremely common in German. As a native German speaker I would go so far as to say that these noun phrases and compound nouns are quintessential German. … I am therefore convinced that the author's first language was German.

This quote came from your website’s discussion of Roterberg’s possible connection to TEATCT. Was Gallaway’s native language German?

Why, as author of TEATCT, did Gallaway feel the need to hide his real name? If the answer is “because he was a part-time cheat and didn’t want to expose himself,” is that realistic given that he lived (apparently) full-time in Chicago (census check anyone?)? If so, over time wouldn’t he become known in Chicago as a cheat and run out of marks?

Zenner wrote:
magicam wrote: … I can’t speak to the timing of the public sale of Erdnase’s book, but if the LOC received two copies in March 1902 bound in the same manner as other 1st edition copies, then …[emphasis added for this quote]

Where does it say anywhere that the books sent for the copyright application were bound?

Peter, it always helps to read for understanding, but the fact that LOC’s copy of the first edition looks like all other copies is (I think) fairly common knowledge, even for people on the Erdnase periphery like me. I’m reasonably sure it’s been discussed in the core Erdnase literature (and very likely mentioned more than a few times in this -- admittedly very long! -- thread), and perhaps naively would expect a vociferous proponent of a particular author identity to know such basics.

Zenner wrote:If you look on page 340 of the Bankruptcy Files, you will see that Drake had due to him “2000 printed covers, 7½" x 10" - S 3 colors” Were these for a Drake edition of The Expert? His 1905 edition was green with red and black printing; I make that 3 colours. Perhaps the price cut was to unload some of those 2000 books when they had been printed?

Trying to “read for understanding” here … You seem to be suggesting the possibility that in late 1902/early 1903, Drake (1) somehow obtained the rights to TEATCT (or pirated it?), (2) decided to reprint TEATCT in the form of 2,000 paperbacks, (3) decided to erroneously date the title page 1905 (or provide no date at all), and (4) slashed the price for those 2,000 copies in order to “unload” some of them – all during a period of time when there were (apparently) a comparatively large quantity of 1st editions remaining for sale (through McKinney or other outlets). I’d guess that such a possibility is remote …

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » July 31st, 2015, 4:30 pm

Not to change the subject but back to the title page for a moment. There's a technique in journalism called the inverted pyramid. Basically its a style of writing the most important information from the top down, like a inverted pyramid. Here's a link that explains it much better than I.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid

It's not meant to be taken literally as writing in a inverted pyramid but as I look at the title page, the pyramid does seem to follow the technique of top down journalism.

Could the author of EATCT have been at least familiar with journalism techniques?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Marty Demarest » July 31st, 2015, 4:43 pm

magicam wrote:Marty, if Smith’s recollections of the ridge at the board’s perimeter are accurate, then that’s no magician’s close-up mat – at least I’ve never seen or heard of one with ridges. On the other hand (and trying to make sense of Smith’s recollection), perhaps a ridged mat would be handy for card games where a strong jostle might spill the card deck on the floor – like in a train. Hard to know if the reference to “2 feet square” means a board measuring 2 feet by 2 feet, or one with 2 sq. feet of playing area (about 17 inches by 17 inches). I wonder if the mats described by Smith were sold in either legitimate stores (for recreational card players who travelled) or gambling houses.


I don't know much about the history of close up mats, but I'm enough of a mountain boy to know that ridges go both up and down, which doesn't help us sort out Gardner's note.

Fortunately, Smith's drawings are clearer. Figures 5 and 6 depict the same move from two angles. Fig. 5 depicts the move as seen by a spectator, and shows the ridge closest to the performer to be flat, with nothing extending above the board's surface. (An inch-and-a-half ridge extending upward would make the board look like a tray.) But Fig. 6, the reverse angle from the performer's perspective, shows a ridged contour along the board's edge. So it appears to me as though the ridged edge extended down from the surface, not up from it.

A raised ridge would also hinder Erdnase's preferred palm-replacement, which requires sliding the deck off the edge of the table. (A move he says requires as much practice as the palm itself, so having a conducive practice surface would make sense.)

Interestingly, the corner of the mat is depicted in Fig. 16. It's rounded, which implies some above-average attention to the woodworking.

EDIT: Originally cited wrong illustration numbers.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » July 31st, 2015, 5:32 pm

Busby/Whaley speculated that the table might have been a "train table", held on the knees of opposing players on a train. Tabman made some of these based on his interpretation of the Gardner/Smith notes.
I couldn't find an illustration of one in the 1909/1910 H. C. Evans Catalog, but on page 47 they do advertise
Best Shuffling Boards thin covered with Best Billiard Cloth.... $2.00

Wonder if that is what it was, a "shuffling board"?
Here's a link to that page:
http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/Evans%2 ... log/47.pdf

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 5:38 pm

Marty Demarest wrote:Chris, you seem to be calculating odds based on someone having The Expert at the time of its publication.


No, that is not what I am calculating. I only limit the age of the person to own the first edition, not when he may have acquired it, because as you rightly note, we don't know when Gallaway has acquired his. (I mean I know, because I know he is Erdnase, but others might not know that :-)
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 5:47 pm

magicam wrote:
Chris Wasshuber wrote:Erdnase uses noun phrases which are extremely common in German. As a native German speaker I would go so far as to say that these noun phrases and compound nouns are quintessential German. … I am therefore convinced that the author's first language was German.

This quote came from your website’s discussion of Roterberg’s possible connection to TEATCT. Was Gallaway’s native language German?


I have dropped my German immigrant theory a while ago since the linguist report identified that there is no German or any other foreign trace to be found.

Gallaway's native language was English. His mother was Irish, his father traces back to Scotland. But growing up in Delphos, OH, he was exposed to German culture and language. His younger sister married a son of German immigrants. The mother of the wife of his older brother was German. And his own wife Rose had parents that came from Austria! Who knows, I may be in-law-related to Erdnase :lol:
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 6:01 pm

Richard Hatch wrote:Busby/Whaley speculated that the table might have been a "train table", held on the knees of opposing players on a train. Tabman made some of these based on his interpretation of the Gardner/Smith notes.
I couldn't find an illustration of one in the 1909/1910 H. C. Evans Catalog, but on page 47 they do advertise
Best Shuffling Boards thin covered with Best Billiard Cloth.... $2.00

Wonder if that is what it was, a "shuffling board"?
Here's a link to that page:
http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/Evans%2 ... log/47.pdf


Maskelyne's Sharps and Flats (1894) reproduces an anonymous catalog page (probably from Will & Finck) describing "SHUFFLING BOARDS, very thin iron, broadcloth cover . . $3.00"

Edward Finck
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Edward Finck » July 31st, 2015, 6:54 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
Richard Hatch wrote:Busby/Whaley speculated that the table might have been a "train table", held on the knees of opposing players on a train. Tabman made some of these based on his interpretation of the Gardner/Smith notes.
I couldn't find an illustration of one in the 1909/1910 H. C. Evans Catalog, but on page 47 they do advertise
Best Shuffling Boards thin covered with Best Billiard Cloth.... $2.00

Wonder if that is what it was, a "shuffling board"?
Here's a link to that page:
http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/Evans%2 ... log/47.pdf


Maskelyne's Sharps and Flats (1894) reproduces an anonymous catalog page (probably from Will & Finck) describing "SHUFFLING BOARDS, very thin iron, broadcloth cover . . $3.00"


A shuffling board was used in Faro and could sometimes be gaffed to add cards. I believe they were usually rectangular and not square like what Erdnase had. They also wouldn't have had a ridge on them.

E.F.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Marty Demarest » July 31st, 2015, 7:23 pm

Bob Coyne wrote:One small (probably inconsequential) thing I noticed when reading a few pages of Gallaway is the use of the term "stock" as in the card/paper stock used in printing. It occurred to me that Erdnase uses the term "stock" extensively in a related but somewhat different context, for a group of playing cards ("to retain the top stock" in false shuffles). It would be interesting to know if the term "stock" was commonly used in other books on card technique or if that's original with Erdnase.

If original with him, then the choice of that term is a small piece of evidence on the side of Erdnase being familiar with printing (which Gallaway obviously was). This would counterbalance the "divining rod" trick with its mining associations that point in a similar manner to WE Sanders. :-)


That's a great point! Speaking of literary fingerprints, Erdnase has a lot of sophisticated fun with language:

S.W. Erdnase wrote:"The right hand holds the wrong card..." p. 151.

"Several cards are removed entirely from the pack, but retained in the memory..." p. 116.

"The dealer can gather up the cards with a great deal of judgment..." p. 82

"The Longitudinal Shift.--This shift, for which we have to thank no one, is given a very long name, but the reader who is interested sufficiently to practice the process, will find it a very short shift..." p. 130

"In the average game where the players keep their hands, and arms also, on the table..." p. 111

"...space of time..." p. 144

"...a few repetitions of the same formula enables one to stock and talk at the same time." p. 74


I'm not aware of any other examples of Erdnase playing with the word "stock," however. (Though he mentions the "stock exchange," it is not in conjunction with a packet switch.) If Gallaway wrote The Expert at the Card Table, he missed an obvious pun when he described the type of cards that should be used!
Last edited by Marty Demarest on July 31st, 2015, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mam
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby mam » July 31st, 2015, 7:36 pm

I now have a PDF of How to price job printing properly by Edward Gallaway (1929) that is mentioned earlier in this thread. I have yet to find anything about it that sticks out, but here are the first few pages:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/307 ... ice-01.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/307 ... ice-02.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/307 ... ice-03.jpg

I've also just started doing some algorithmic work to compare textual features of Gallaway, Roterberg, Sachs, Hoffmann etc. but have yet to come up with anything useful or out of the ordinary. N-grams in the range 3 to 20 words (excluding stop words, punctuation, etc.) on The Expert at the Card Table on one hand, and New Era Card Tricks or How Gamblers Win on the other hand, does not show any phrases of those word lengths that are identical, except a bunch of very generic ones.

These are just some initial steps though, I think more robust comparison algorithms might prove more useful or interesting. (For example, there is one called SpotSigs that specifically tries to identify near-duplicate content.)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » July 31st, 2015, 7:57 pm

lybrary wrote:
Gallaway's native language was English. ...........But growing up in Delphos, OH................


A small bit of trivia unrelated to the search.

In the field of amateur astronomy, there is a book so beloved that, when it was out of print it traded for hundreds of dollars (if you could find a copy).

The author was Leslie Peltier, from Delphos, Ohio - and his story was one of life on the Ohio farm, with his small, private observatory in his back yard, in the time before electricity (which didn't arrive in some parts of Ohio farm country until the 30's)
The book is called "Starlight Nights - The Adventure of a Star Gazer". It's one of the finest books I've ever read.
Peltier was an amateur astronomer who made deep space discoveries from his back yard that rival the work of professional astronomers.
Peltier is today considered to be the greatest amateur astronomer of all time.

http://www.amazon.ca/Starlight-Nights-T ... 0933346948

In the field of amateur astronomy this book is treated as an almost holy relic, a touchstone to a simpler time in America.

Interesting that Chris is proposing another author from Delphos, Ohio, and another beloved book in its field, in this case cheating at playing cards.

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lybrary
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 8:03 pm

Roger, that is fascinating. Probably it's the water they drank :-)

As I have already earlier eluded to "Estimating for Printers" looks like it is equally ground breaking in print estimating as EATCT was for card artifice. I am still actively researching this aspect of the book.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 9:28 pm

Edward Finck wrote:A shuffling board was used in Faro and could sometimes be gaffed to add cards. I believe they were usually rectangular and not square like what Erdnase had. They also wouldn't have had a ridge on them.


From a K.C. Card catalog:
Image

If this were "two feet square" and had only billiard cloth with no layout painted, with the walnut rims, it sounds like what Smith described and is consistent with the pictures in the book.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 10:01 pm

Marty Demarest wrote: How do you know that the Gallaway copy was owned by him in 1902? Do you know that he didn't purchase it while browsing a used bookstore in 1918? During what time span did Gallaway use that bookplate?


For that matter, how do we know that the Gallaway that owned the book that showed up in the 1950s was the same Gallaway that worked for McKinney ca. 1902? It's certainly possible, even likely, but the 1940 Chicago Census shows multiple people named Edward Gallaway/Galloway.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 31st, 2015, 10:12 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
Marty Demarest wrote: How do you know that the Gallaway copy was owned by him in 1902? Do you know that he didn't purchase it while browsing a used bookstore in 1918? During what time span did Gallaway use that bookplate?


For that matter, how do we know that the Gallaway that owned the book that showed up in the 1950s was the same Gallaway that worked for McKinney ca. 1902? It's certainly possible, even likely, but the 1940 Chicago Census shows multiple people named Edward Gallaway/Galloway.


The bookplate matches a number of things we know about Gallaway. First the correct spelling of his name is with an 'a' Gallaway, not Galloway, even though in some places his name is spelled with an 'o'. He himself always spells it with an 'a'. We know that he initiated a library committee at the Excelsior OddFellow Lodge in 1906, consistent with his job in the print industry as well as using bookplates. There is only one Edward Gallaway/Galloway in that lodge and from his obituary we know it is the one who worked for McKinney. Also the fact that Jay Marshall was in contact with the Gallaway family would support that it was him who put that bookplate in and not somebody else.

Which other Edward Gallaways are you referring to? I guess you mean one born 1914, Edward Gallaway, identified as African American. Any others?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 31st, 2015, 11:45 pm

lybrary wrote:The bookplate matches a number of things we know about Gallaway. First the correct spelling of his name is with an 'a' Gallaway, not Galloway, even though in some places his name is spelled with an 'o'. He himself always spells it with an 'a'.


This only proves how the Gallaway of the bookplate spelled his name.


We know that he initiated a library committee at the Excelsior OddFellow Lodge in 1906, consistent with his job in the print industry as well as using bookplates. There is only one Edward Gallaway/Galloway in that lodge and from his obituary we know it is the one who worked for McKinney.


Proves only what is confirmed in the obit - that McKinney's Gallaway was an Odd Fellow.


Also the fact that Jay Marshall was in contact with the Gallaway family would support that it was him who put that bookplate in and not somebody else.


Marshall found a book with a bookplate bearing the name of Edward Gallaway. From the notes in TMWWE, he found descendants/family of *a* Edward Gallaway, who worked for McKinney. Perhaps they confirmed that their family member collected gambling books, but it only looks like they confirmed that their family member worked at McKinney. If they made that link, it is not clear from what was reported in the book.

Like I said before, I tend to think it was the same guy. I'm just curious if there is information I'm not aware that confirms it.

Which other Edward Gallaways are you referring to? I guess you mean one born 1914, Edward Gallaway, identified as African American. Any others?


I am _not_ presuming that the Census spelled things correctly -- I've seen too many errors that they have made to believe they are 100% accurate (your own genealogy of Peter Edward shows the census misspelled his last name in 1870 as "Fallonay" and his first name in 1880 as "Etta").

So, the 1940 Census has
Edward M Galloway b 1867
Edward W Galloway b 1882
Edward R Galloway b 1900
Edward Galloway b 1912
Edward L Galloway b 1914
Edward Gallaway b 1914
Edward Galloway b 1915

all from Chicago or Cook County. Add to this list "our" Edward Gallaway who had been dead for 10 years, plus possibly others I've found in City Directories, etc., and there are any number of people who could be the Gallaway behind the bookplate.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 1st, 2015, 12:29 am

BIll, your post points up one or more problems with the very vague information surrounding the acquisition of the Gallaway copy by Jay Marshall, and how difficult it is to sift out what actually happened based on information from The Man Who Was Erdnase. That book talks about (page 390, note 14) William C. Griffiths giving the book to Jay, but the information on how Griffiths got the book is not exactly a rounded account. It's interesting (I guess) that the dealer "had been holding" certain books for Rufus Steele, but surely there were many other facts that would have been more germane.

I wonder why Griffiths came up with the idea of giving the book to Jay. One tends to assume that Griffiths must have known that Jay was looking into Gallaway's possible connection with the book, but to me that does not appear to be such a sound assumption.

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At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.


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