Page 79 of 192

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 7th, 2015, 12:33 pm
by Bill Mullins
lybrary wrote:My first reaction was: "How neatly written." Whoever wrote this must have taken real care filling out this form. If I may venture a guess it does not look like some designated employee of McKinney who had to potentially fill out many of these but rather a first time filler outer.

Here is another line of investigation that this may open. Having seen my son being taught handwriting in a French school rather than the Austrian schooling I received myself, I know that handwriting is being taught differently in different localities. The detailed shapes of each letter can be quite different from place to place. For example, the big A I learned to write is completely different from the one I see on this application. I wonder if an expert may be able to deduce from the handwriting where the person who filled this out learned to write.


Recall that in 1902, typewriters were not as common as they later became, and many official forms were filled out by hand -- so people who regularly filled them out needed to do it neatly. And also, it is my belief that people in general had better handwriting back then than they do now (see Vernon's handwriting, for example).

So I don't necessarily think that "neat handwriting" implies a person who filled out this form for the 1st time. In fact, I'd argue that if McKinney was in the business of taking manuscripts and turning them into books for independent authors, that doing the copyright paperwork would be part of the service that it would be appropriate for them to offer.

I'd love to find half-a-dozen books published and/or printed by McKinney ca. 1902, and compare the copyright applications on all of them.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 7th, 2015, 3:15 pm
by lybrary
Bill Mullins wrote:I'd love to find half-a-dozen books published and/or printed by McKinney ca. 1902, and compare the copyright applications on all of them.


That is exactly what I think we should do. It is a fairly straight forward step to get some clarity on the handwriting. Richard Hatch has one other McKinney book in is collection but he never tried to look-up the copyright application for it. That means we have at least one book. Don't know when it was published. The big question is how we can find other books printed by McKinney preferably around the same time?

One possible way would be to start with Drake assuming he acquired more than Erdnase from McKinney and see if any of the Drake books were originally printed by McKinney.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 7th, 2015, 5:10 pm
by Richard Evans
Thanks Richard and Bill for posting full copyright application.

The typesetting on the sample front page is slightly different to the printed first edition isn't it? There appears to be a much larger space between the R and the T in 'ARTIFICE'.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 7th, 2015, 6:58 pm
by Bill Mullins
Richard Evans wrote:Thanks Richard and Bill for posting full copyright application.

The typesetting on the sample front page is slightly different to the printed first edition isn't it? There appears to be a much larger space between the R and the T in 'ARTIFICE'.



Could be from a proof.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 7th, 2015, 11:09 pm
by Scott Lane
I would like to thank Richard Hatch for allowing the copyright application to be posted. That was very nice of you!

Richard wrote in an earlier post ...
Thanks, Bill. Always struck me as impressive that the application which was apparently filled out and mailed in Chicago on Feb 15, 1902 was delivered to the copyright office in DC two days later.

Do you think the application could have been hand delivered?

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 12th, 2015, 10:33 pm
by Scott Lane
Top 10 Reasons to Attend
Erdnase Lecture: Back to the Future

Comedian David Letterman featured nightly for decades his famous top ten list. Taking a cue from his success, we give you the top ten reasons why you should attend Scott Edward Lane’s March 25, 2015 lecture/demonstration on Erdnase.

10. The seminal S W Erdnase book, Expert at the Card Table, was published in 1902 and its influence on card magic continues today, 113 years later.
9.The Ask Alexander database (Linking Ring) includes over 600 references and citations to Erdnase, beginning in 1903 and as recently as 2014.
8.The book is deeply rooted in the sneakiest of gambling sleights, not in card magic.
7. Gamblers have been killed after being caught applying Erdnase sleights.
6.The sordid influence of the Erdnase book reached the upper levels of politics, including U.S. Congress members.
5. You will get a free deck of cards to practice 22 Erdnase non-knuckle busting sleights during the lecture/demonstration workshop: False Shuffles, False Cuts, Passes/Shifts, Palming, Mnemonic Techniques, Top/Bottom Changes, Card Stacking and Memorized Decks. Even if you use some of these sleights regularly, Erdnase offers a new twist for you to consider.
4. You will be taught nine card tricks that rely heavily on Erdnase sleights, tricks performed by (in alphabetical order) Steve Forte, Professor Hoffmann, John Hilliard, James Harto, Ricky Jay, Bill Malone, Edward Marlo, August Roterberg, and Dai Vernon
3. This is not your ordinary lecture but rather a production that includes a book on Erdnase, handouts, demonstrations, and a PowerPoint Presentation.
2. Scott will present previously unpublished information about Erdnase, which comes directly from his family elders who lived in French Lick, Indiana, the Midwest gambling center at the turn of the century and the genesis of the Erdnase book.
1. At least a dozen prominent individuals have speculated on who S.W. Erdnase really was and Scott Lane has documentary evidence to show they were all wrong.

You are now Sherlock Holmes. The mystery is before you.The clues by past researchers have been filled with speculation and controversy.It is now up to you to untangle the web and discover for yourselves…The Elusive World of S W Erdnase…

Please join us as we go back to the Erdnase future at 7:00pm, Wednesday, March 25th, IBM Ring41, Tripoli Shrine Center, 3000 W. Wisconsin Ave, Milwaukee, 53208. Ring 41 members, free. Others, $5.00. Questions? Contact Slanelittleton@yahoo.com

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 12th, 2015, 10:50 pm
by Richard Kaufman
The first thing I would do is take the copyright application to a handwriting analyst and find out if it was written by a man or a woman. The writing appears feminine to me.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 13th, 2015, 9:53 am
by Roger M.
Scott Lane wrote:1. At least a dozen prominent individuals have speculated on who S.W. Erdnase really was and Scott Lane has documentary evidence to show they were all wrong.


Hubris, so unbecoming.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 13th, 2015, 12:18 pm
by Jonathan Townsend
Marty Demarest wrote:...The copyright application should answer those questions. It doesn't.

The simplest answer that fits the evidence is: The form was filled out by someone [false dichotomy removed -JT].


The artifact supports a claim that the form was filed as filled in by the staff who stamped a date on it. As to whether or not there was a person other than the filing clerk who filled in the form, and what any person may have believed... projection and conjecture which may be better suited to writing fiction than recoding history.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 14th, 2015, 4:35 pm
by Jonathan Townsend
Bill Mullins wrote:Thanks to Richard Hatch:

Copyright Application


Richard, Bill

Thanks so much for obtaining that data and making it available here.

There's something about looking at evidence from over a hundred years ago...

again, thanks,

JonT

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 14th, 2015, 8:17 pm
by Richard Hatch
Just to clarify a point in an earlier discussion, in my interview with Martin Gardner published in the April 2000 issue of MAGIC, he said "You've convinced me now that there is good reason for doubt that Milton Franklin Andrews was Erdnase. I still think it was Milton Franklin, but my conviction rate is lowered... to 60%".
Not that it means much, but my recollection is that his conviction rate later went back up in favor of MFA prior to Martin's death...

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 15th, 2015, 6:32 am
by Scott Lane
Mr. Hatch,

Concerning MFA … your clues are so juicy,,,, “Clayton Hill”, Eva Howard”, “Coded Books”. “Rosella E”, “W.S. Maunder” …

Don’t forget William Hilliard and James Harto worked for the great Edward Ballard …..

As Sherlock Holmes would say … “The game is afoot Dr. Watson … “

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 15th, 2015, 9:26 am
by Richard Hatch
Scott, wish I could attend your Erdnase lecture! Will your book on Erdnase be available to those who cannot attend?

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 15th, 2015, 3:56 pm
by lybrary
Richard Kaufman wrote:The first thing I would do is take the copyright application to a handwriting analyst and find out if it was written by a man or a woman. The writing appears feminine to me.


Just received an answer from the AAHA (American Association of Handwriting Analysts): "Handwriting cannot tell gender, age, or handedness (right or left)."

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 15th, 2015, 4:11 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Maybe it was written by an orangutan.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 15th, 2015, 6:24 pm
by Jonathan Townsend
Richard Kaufman wrote:Maybe it was written by an orangutan.


That by way of Planet of the Apes or Edgar Allen Poe? A non-human author... good story material. :)

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 16th, 2015, 2:50 am
by Scott Lane
Richard Hatch wrote: Scott, wish I could attend your Erdnase lecture! Will your book on Erdnase be available to those who cannot attend?

Mr. Hatch,

I just want to clarify that I will not be selling any books at the lecture. I wrote and illustrated a book that was self published in the late 1980’s and published in 1990. I only have a few of the original copies left. It was entitled Gambling Card Sharps – How to beat a Cheater. The purpose of my lecture is to detail the “what” and “who” of the Erdnase mystery. There is a large volume of work that I inherited from my family elders which I am trying to preserve but I wish to leave that up to a professional publisher this time around.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 17th, 2015, 12:31 am
by Jack Shalom
Last I looked, Mr. Kaufman and Mr. Hatch were some very professional publishers...
Perhaps with some more description of what you're talking about, they could become interested?

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 18th, 2015, 12:27 am
by Scott Lane
Saying Mr. Kaufman and Mr. Hatch are professional publishers is an understatement. Their contribution to the magic community is unsurpassed. It would be hard to calculate how many quality words, illustrations, articles, magazines and books they have produced.

On the gambling side, relatively little has been preserved or disclosed. Historically, magicians were the ones to document the information. For example, in French Lick there was a concerted effort to destroy any documentation regarding their gambling history.

When a new pamphlet or book is discovered it is a big deal. Examples would be How Gamblers Win or The 52 Wonders.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 18th, 2015, 1:15 am
by Richard Hatch
Scott Lane wrote:Saying Mr. Kaufman and Mr. Hatch are professional publishers is an understatement.


I appreciate the sentiment but must exclude myself from the compliment. While my former company, H & R Magic Books, did publish (and continues to publish) books for the profession, I had little to do with that aspect of our business, which was handled almost exclusively by my business partner, Charlie Randall.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 18th, 2015, 11:04 am
by lybrary
I have commissioned a report on Erdnase by a forensic linguist expert. The fascinating 11 page report is in. It has clearly answered some of the outstanding questions I had and also sheds new light on Erdnase and who this person was.

To get access to the report and read it you will need to purchase the "Hunt for Erdnase" ebook http://www.lybrary.com/the-hunt-for-erd ... 73843.html

The report was not cheap and the proceeds from the sale of this ebook will fund further investigations and fact finding regarding Erdnase. Any additional post report analysis as well as other research we are doing will be shared with our supporters.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 20th, 2015, 1:53 pm
by John Bodine
Thanks Chris, very interesting read!

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 22nd, 2015, 1:59 pm
by Bill Mullins
Music to second deal by . . .

And this guy is having way too much fun giving bad reviews to the Magic Makers EATCT DVD set.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 22nd, 2015, 9:59 pm
by Rick Ruhl
Anyone who will not put their real name with a review doesn't fly with me. Just because some idiot so called magician, who probably couldnt second deal his way out of a wet paper bag, puts up an opinion on his blog, doesnt make it a fact.

Too many people cannot tell the different between fact and opinion today. to me, blog's have always been yellow journalism.

And yes, the above is my opinion and I signed my name to it.

:)

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 23rd, 2015, 8:03 pm
by Scott Lane
In response to …
Music to second deal by . . .

And this guy is having way too much fun giving bad reviews to the Magic Makers EATCT DVD set

I like listening to Leon Redbone when working with cards. As far as the bad review ... I liked the DVDs by Wesley James and Simon Lovell. Anyone who takes on such a job should be commended, not ridiculed. Also, the reprinted book was really cool!

Another clue for MFA:

Riddle me this, Mr. Mullins:

I’m not soup for you to eat,
MFA from the bars to keep,
One last try is worth a go,
Hire the best, the lawyers know ...
Who am I?

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 24th, 2015, 8:34 pm
by Scott Lane
You will find the answer to the riddle in TMWWE.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 24th, 2015, 9:26 pm
by KenHerrick
Am I missing something? Is this blog about "Eardnase", the guy who wrote the book? Are we off-topic or have I jumped to the wrong blog?

Ken Herrick

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 24th, 2015, 10:42 pm
by Bill Mullins
KenHerrick wrote:Am I missing something? Is this blog about "Eardnase", the guy who wrote the book? Are we off-topic or have I jumped to the wrong blog?


Well, it's a forum, not a blog. And this particular thread is a twelve-year-old (!!) discussion that meanders far and wide. It has a lot of informed speculation about the author, and much good information about the contents of the book. Some of the world's top practitioners of sleight of hand have weighed in from time to time, and it's well worth going back to the first posts and following it to the end. But it also has a bunch of chaff.

Sometimes, if I see something related (even tangentially) to Erdnase (the writer or the book), I'll link to it just to keep the thread active.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 24th, 2015, 10:56 pm
by Leonard Hevia
Hi Scott--following your presentation on Erdnase tomorrow, do you plan on submitting a paper detailing all of your research? Can we expect an essay with your thesis in a future publication of Genii, Magicol, or Magic? Perhaps you would rather self-publish it instead in one of those Lybrary.com e-books. Maybe a comb bound manuscript would be more to your liking.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 25th, 2015, 8:55 am
by Jonathan Townsend
KenHerrick wrote:Am I missing something? Is this blog about "Eardnase", the guy who wrote the book? Are we off-topic or have I jumped to the wrong blog?

Ken Herrick


Most here presuppose a single author using a pseudonym "S. W. Erdnase". Some have proffered historical research. As to whether you are in the wrong blog ... that's up to you and the rest of your group which may agree upon some topic.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 29th, 2015, 9:22 pm
by Scott Lane
Previous Post:
Hi Scott--following your presentation on Erdnase tomorrow, do you plan on submitting a paper detailing all of your research? Can we expect an essay with your thesis in a future publication of Genii, Magicol, or Magic? Perhaps you would rather self-publish it instead in one of those Lybrary.com e-books. Maybe a comb bound manuscript would be more to your liking.

I would be happy to provide an interview or essay to any one of those publications. I will be doing another lecture on Erdnase at the Michigan Magic Day convention this May 1-3. MichiganMagicDay2015.com

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: March 31st, 2015, 10:36 pm
by lybrary
I have commissioned and received two handwriting reports for the copyright application. We have also located four more books printed by James McKinney. Three were published in 1902 and one in 1915. All of this and more has been added to the "Hunt for Erdnase" ebook http://www.lybrary.com/the-hunt-for-erd ... 73843.html

Your support in funding this kind of research is very much appreciated. It has allowed me to bring in some specialists, such as the forensic linguist and handwriting analysts. I am also in contact with a rare book curator in Chicago and Chicago printing history expert. All of these interactions reveal new information about Erdnase and his immediate surrounding.

Currently the main focus of our research is to try to identify who filled out the copyright form. But as research often goes we may make completely unexpected finds.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: April 1st, 2015, 12:39 am
by Scott Lane
The answer to the riddle is A. Sorrs Campbell. This will fit in with your most excellent research.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: April 1st, 2015, 3:22 am
by Scott Lane
Previous Post:
Riddle me this, Mr. Mullins:

I’m not soup for you to eat,
MFA from the bars to keep,
One last try is worth a go,
Hire the best, the lawyers know ...
Who am I?

Previous Post:
We have also located four more books printed by James McKinney. Three were published in 1902 and one in 1915.

It looks like the Baker Street Gang has hit a home run! To clarify, the answer to the riddle is A. Storrs Campbell found on page 105 of TMWWE. You are getting warmer. The game is still afoot ...

Scott Edward Lane

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: April 1st, 2015, 3:28 am
by Bill Marquardt
What do you think of the following?

"As some have conjectured, there was more than one author to Artifice, Ruse and Subterfuge at the Card Table. The secret to understanding this is to first reverse the letters in the name of the alleged author, S. W. Erdnase. This gives us ESANDREWS. It is then necessary to separate the letters into an earlier construction, which was "E. S. and R. E. W. S.," and before that, "E.S. and E.W." (The underlines are mine, for the sake of clarity.) Here is the backstory, or at least part of it:

"In 1901, a well-known gambler whose initials were E.S. and who traveled between Chicago and the east coast, was discovered to be a cheat and suffered for it with a severe beating. Friendless and nearly broke, he decided the world of "advantage play" was no longer suitable as a way of life. By chance, he encountered a popular magician (E. W.) at a fair. The two of them became friends of a sort and discussed the art of card manipulation, comparing notes and sharing ideas.

"E.S. proposed the idea of co-writing a book exposing the secrets of the card cheat, with an additional section on card magic in order to promote greater sales. To maintain anonymity, they decided to claim authorship as "E. S. and E. W."

"Not long afterwards, the magician got cold feet. He had heard rumors of the proposed formation of a national organization of magicians, The Society of American Magicians, an idea he had supported during his visits to Martinka's shop. He did not want to be known as an exposer of magical secrets, fearing that someone would recognize his initials and suspect him. He asked E. S. to eliminate the magic portion of the book but E. S. refused. E.S. appealed to the magician's ego by insisting that a little added confusion would maintain the secrecy of their authorship yet their initials would still be there on the cover of the book.

"E. S. suggested further obfuscating the name of the author(s) by adding the letters 'R' and 'S' to the original "E. S. and E. W.," as in "ESAND(R)EW(S)," to create a normal sounding name, E. S. Andrews. The magician agreed so long as the name would be reversed to add another level of deception, thereby creating the infamous "S. W. Erdnase."

"Soon after the publication of the book, the magician became a member of the S.A.M. and later advanced to the office of president, which he held for many years. By now you have probably realized that he was none other than Erich Weiss, better known as Harry Houdini. E. S. returned to a life among his family in the Midwest. Houdini went to his grave 24 years later without having ever revealed his complicity in the writing of the book known as The Expert at the Card Table."

- Anonymous

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: April 1st, 2015, 7:20 am
by Carlo Morpurgo
Very creative.....The possibilities are endless! :D

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: April 1st, 2015, 9:04 am
by Jonathan Townsend
Starting to read like Eco's book Foucalt's Pendulum

I got as far as the McKinney's needing a name and seeing the reflection of a truck with "Andrews" on the side ... but this latest fantasy with E. W. is a great story thread - bravo!

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: April 1st, 2015, 9:13 am
by Bill Mullins
Biographical sketch of Storrs Campbell.

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: April 1st, 2015, 12:35 pm
by Scott Lane
Previous Post:
As some have conjectured....

Trust was broken when Mr. Erich Weiss turned his “selected” card face up and executed a shift. It was not only foolish but dangerous to do at the time. Rumour has it that Professor Moriarty was not pleased...

Scott Edward Lane

Re: ERDNASE

Posted: April 1st, 2015, 1:08 pm
by Bill Mullins
Bill M. -- where is that quotation from?

Scott -- are you suggesting that Campbell was Erdnase, or that MFA was, and Campbell was his ghost writer?